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They're literally telling us to Play Cultist Knife + Shotguns (Twisted Helix or Pauper Princes) or Shotguns + Demolition Charges (if Rusted Claw) at this point

 Cephalobeard wrote:

Also the sprue doesn't "Include multiple autoguns", it includes two, simply by virtue of there being TWO identical sprues.

I would wait until the box is actually out before saying this--we've had sprues missing from quite a few webstore breakdowns before.

It's possible, I suppose.

Just not likely.

I think there are more options feasible for the bikes.

1.) Cultist knife + power pick/hammer eg for pauper prince or twisted helix
2.) cultist knife + Demo charge for any trait
3.) 2x autopistol + cultist knife maybe. They come with one pistol stock

 Cephalobeard wrote:
It's possible, I suppose.

Just not likely.

Honestly, I can't read what the text in that blurry picture says--if it's "ANY model" can pick two weapons, then I'd guess duplicate sprues since they can have everyone with different things.

Just a thought - can allied brood brother IG company commanders issue orders to GSC brood brother infantry squads that are in a GSC detachment?

Logic would say yes, but I could see there being some sort of keyword mess up.

I think 100+ guardsmen with FRFSRF and 3 mortar teams would go a long way to clearing chaff turn 1 so our killy units can drop onto something tasty.

 DoomMouse wrote:
Just a thought - can allied brood brother IG company commanders issue orders to GSC brood brother infantry squads that are in a GSC detachment?

Logic would say yes, but I could see there being some sort of keyword mess up.

I think 100+ guardsmen with FRFSRF and 3 mortar teams would go a long way to clearing chaff turn 1 so our killy units can drop onto something tasty.

You replace <regiment> with Brood Brothers in all instances, so the voice of command ability becomes "may issue 2 orders to friendly Brood Brothers infantry each turn"

So, yes, they would be able to issue orders to BBs in a GSC detachment.

I really like the Tank Commander/Company Commander/Company Commander supreme command paired with a GSC brigade with some brood bro infantry squads.

the_scotsman wrote:

 DoomMouse wrote:
Just a thought - can allied brood brother IG company commanders issue orders to GSC brood brother infantry squads that are in a GSC detachment?

Logic would say yes, but I could see there being some sort of keyword mess up.

I think 100+ guardsmen with FRFSRF and 3 mortar teams would go a long way to clearing chaff turn 1 so our killy units can drop onto something tasty.

You replace <regiment> with Brood Brothers in all instances, so the voice of command ability becomes "may issue 2 orders to friendly Brood Brothers infantry each turn"

So, yes, they would be able to issue orders to BBs in a GSC detachment.

I really like the Tank Commander/Company Commander/Company Commander supreme command paired with a GSC brigade with some brood bro infantry squads.

Cheers, sounds great! TBH I'll probably run a AM battalion still - 3CP isn't too bad if all it forces you to take are some of the most efficient troops in the game

So far, do yall think Neophytes will have Autoguns or Shotguns?

What weapons do you think the Metamorphs will be using the most?

How's this for an initial list?

GSC Brigade

Patriarch
Magus
Primus

Clamavus
Nexos
10 Aberrants

6 x brood brother infantry squads
3 x 4 bike jackal units
3 mortar HWTs

Battalion
Magus
Iconward
3 x units of 20 acolytes all with hand flamers

Brood brothers bat - 330pts
3 company commanders
6 Brood brothers infantry squads

Not sure which traits would be most useful. They all seem pretty decent bonuses.

Arkengate wrote:
So far, do yall think Neophytes will have Autoguns or Shotguns?

What weapons do you think the Metamorphs will be using the most?

I think it depends on your taste. Personally I like shotguns, and as a less obnoxious version of the acolyte handflamer bomb I will probably run my 20 neophytes with shotguns+2 flamers and use the stratagem to move them in close as a chaff clearing tool. my meta is nowhere near competitive enough to handle the handflamer bomb nonsense.

best loadout is probably webbers+web pistol with autoguns either out of a goliath or DS-ing. If you're going rusty claw you can consider the heavy weapons. Maybe heavy stubbers are worth since it's only 2pts for upping the shots to 3 and strength to 4 but you become bs5+ on the turn you come in.

Bad odds hand flamers remain that good in the long run either I'm betting. They should be 2-3pts but not 1ppm. Irrelevant for now, as it is what it is, but currently there is almost zero reason not to take a HF on every acolyte you run, which is horrible game design. You can't discount the defensive perk they provide as well. Who wants to eat that many auto hits every time they try to assault them?

That said, I like one unit with shotguns on neophytes, I have a 20 man with an icon and 2 flamers I was having success with pre codex. They all die horribly but they are cheap and get the job done usually. I wouldn't run all my neophyte that way though, and bare in mind I own 100 of the fethers, so for me it's easy to say why not 20 shotguns. I think the easier unit to use, that does what you want is the autogun unit. Without strats they both perform the same from reserve within 12" but the autoguns are obviously better when that isn't an option and you are further away. I also tend to like the grenade launcher the most for special weapons. Webbers caught my eye though, the only problem I am having with them is the opportunity cost, because 1pt is crazy good for what it does.

To discuss the achilles again for a minute, I think maybe folks hadn't realized the HML is d3 shots now. With it's scout move this thing shouldn't need to move turn 1. With an average of 2 shots from the HML you average a hit per turn before any mods. Plus you get the 6 HS shots. For me this makes them solid. A sentinel with las canon is 55 pts, and would take a pair to average the same result before counting the HS shots. I am not suggesting the Ridge runner is a replacement for sentinels, but I plan on running 1-2 along with my HF scout sentinels. To compare it to another unit, 10 neos with 2 ML come to 74pts, very similar damage output but lacks the ability to bring it to bare turn1 without a lot of assistance and is much more fragile to small arms. I think it's worth considering a bit more.

In regards to the jackals I think a large unit from helix with psychic stimulus is better then folks are expecting. It's is no unit of abbs, but the unit is also dirt cheap and gets in turn 1 and has reasonable damage output. BTW it also combos with the achilles well, the flares can give them that auto 6" advance turn 1, +2" from helix. That's a 22" move before assaulting. Great harassing unit.

Webbers, at 1ppm, are also very much worth on Neophytes now.

 Red Corsair wrote:
Bad odds hand flamers remain that good in the long run either I'm betting. They should be 2-3pts but not 1ppm. Irrelevant for now, as it is what it is, but currently there is almost zero reason not to take a HF on every acolyte you run, which is horrible game design. You can't discount the defensive perk they provide as well. Who wants to eat that many auto hits every time they try to assault them?

That said, I like one unit with shotguns on neophytes, I have a 20 man with an icon and 2 flamers I was having success with pre codex. They all die horribly but they are cheap and get the job done usually. I wouldn't run all my neophyte that way though, and bare in mind I own 100 of the fethers, so for me it's easy to say why not 20 shotguns. I think the easier unit to use, that does what you want is the autogun unit. Without strats they both perform the same from reserve within 12" but the autoguns are obviously better when that isn't an option and you are further away. I also tend to like the grenade launcher the most for special weapons. Webbers caught my eye though, the only problem I am having with them is the opportunity cost, because 1pt is crazy good for what it does.

To discuss the achilles again for a minute, I think maybe folks hadn't realized the HML is d3 shots now. With it's scout move this thing shouldn't need to move turn 1. With an average of 2 shots from the HML you average a hit per turn before any mods. Plus you get the 6 HS shots. For me this makes them solid. A sentinel with las canon is 55 pts, and would take a pair to average the same result before counting the HS shots. I am not suggesting the Ridge runner is a replacement for sentinels, but I plan on running 1-2 along with my HF scout sentinels. To compare it to another unit, 10 neos with 2 ML come to 74pts, very similar damage output but lacks the ability to bring it to bare turn1 without a lot of assistance and is much more fragile to small arms. I think it's worth considering a bit more.

In regards to the jackals I think a large unit from helix with psychic stimulus is better then folks are expecting. It's is no unit of abbs, but the unit is also dirt cheap and gets in turn 1 and has reasonable damage output. BTW it also combos with the achilles well, the flares can give them that auto 6" advance turn 1, +2" from helix. That's a 22" move before assaulting. Great harassing unit.

I agree with you on everything. It also just came to my mind that ridgerunners are probably already worth it just by pushing back scouts and the like of other armies by deploying. That is huge for GSC, because they do not want to be blocked by scouts.
I am not sure how scout interacts with Cult Ambush from the wording. It seems like they cannot be used in combination.

Posted this in the previous thread but just want to confirm if this works.

So as an Astra Milltarum player I noticed something interesting in the blood brothers rules that could be pretty useful.

"These AM detachments are then known as Brood Brother detachments, and every unit in them that has the <Regiment> or Militarum Tempestus keyword must replace it in every instance with Brood Brothers (if a unit doesn't have either of these keywords it simply gains the Brood Brothers keyword)."


Assuming this is the correct wording. Leads to some interesting combo ideas. This would allow Bullgryns, Ogyrns, and Ratlings to receive orders. The Taurox Prime becomes usable for all AM models. And while the codex special Orders can't be used the ones from DKoK and EDT can be. Also the Sabre Weapon Platform will now work With Tempestus, DKOK, and Elysians.

So this is kinda silly and might not be worth it but you could load up a Valk With a 10 man Combat Engineer Squad with a Melta bomb on the sarge. Put in an Elysian Platoon Commander in the Valk as well. Zoom the Squad to their target 9" away and Grav-Shute them in. Move the unit up 6" (So they should be just over 3" away) then have the Platoon Comander give them the "Move and Fire" order turning all there weapons to Assault. That would include their Grenade Weapons. So the Squad would then get 20 shotguns, 10 Frag Genades, 10 Krak Grenades, 10 Acid Bombs, and 1 Melta Bomb. Toss in a Sabre weapons Platform to have them hitting on 2+.

Don't plan on that one surviving a FAQ. I doubt the intent was to allow BB to give orders to AM units better then AM proper lol. Again, for now have fun with it, but I would rather make battle plans based on a conservative approach to the rules lawyering.

What is a good use for the hand flamers? In a car?

 Niiai wrote:
What is a good use for the hand flamers? In a car?

Literally any use you normally could apply to acolytes. As I said earlier at 1ppm they are never not a good option. So really it is up to your preferred play style. In a truck would work, so does ambushing and so does just letting them fire overwatch lol.

 Red Corsair wrote:
Don't plan on that one surviving a FAQ. I doubt the intent was to allow BB to give orders to AM units better then AM proper lol. Again, for now have fun with it, but I would rather make battle plans based on a conservative approach to the rules lawyering.

At least one leak indicated that BB cannot give or receive orders from any source

Has anyone considered a gunslinger and a 9 man bare bones acolyte squad in a goliath truck.

Protected by blip 1st turn
Rushes any enemy unit foolish enough to move toward us
Blasts away with 9 pistols, the gunslinger and a demo cashe as well as vechicle weapons. Next turn disembarks and moves into assault position and blasts away again as the rest of your DS comes in to play. That's some significant disruption and it's fairly durable to boot.

Might be a silly question, but how do you keep your characters alive? The Alphus can just hang back so she's quite safe. But what about the Primus, the Kelermorph, the Clamavus and the Magus? The perfect ambush strat will only allow ONE unit to move D6, so if we bring in a unit of 10 Acolytes with saws and a Primus they'll leave him behind, kill their target and then get shot off the table, making the Primus an easy target. Same goes for the Clamavus. And the Gunslinger wants to be quite close to the enemy as well.

At 40 points a Locus might not be bad to protect the Primus for a bit. And since Webbers have gotten better I could see cheap ten men Neophyte squads with Webbers screening a Magus etc. Make them Rusted Claw for more durability.

Still though, it seems tough for me to make my characters last. I play against Orks a lot and those Evil Suns are so incredibly fast that they'll reach any character they want.

On another note:

What combos do we have now? Here are the ones from the top of my mind:

- Broodsurge Iconward + Clamavus (+4AE) to give Acolytes +2" to their charge, so they need to make a re-rollable 7" charge when they pop up.

- Patriarch + 1 a s WT + Twisted Helix relic + MfB. Gives you a S8 Patriarch with 9 attacks.

- Rusted Claw Bikers w/ Demo Charges + Alpha + drive-by strat + more explosives strat. Enjoy 5D6 S8 AP-3 D3 shots that hit on 2s and wound most things on 2+.

Would love to hear which other combos we got!

So I am planning some GSC allties to my tyranids.

1. What enables charges from the reserves? Stratagem for 3 CP, the character that ads +1 to charge. What else? I know I am missing something. Four armed emperor?

2. What are the good shooting units?

3. What does the primus add in the new codex?

4. What unique things do they bring to the table? I thought of the following.

Charging from reserves.
Hammer abominations + hammer character.
Regaining CP.
Very good psykick powers.(Needs primus and magus.)
Sniping anti psyker assassin.
Jakalid character shooting boosts for GSC.
The pistol folk hero.

 Causalis wrote:
Might be a silly question, but how do you keep your characters alive? The Alphus can just hang back so she's quite safe. But what about the Primus, the Kelermorph, the Clamavus and the Magus? The perfect ambush strat will only allow ONE unit to move D6, so if we bring in a unit of 10 Acolytes with saws and a Primus they'll leave him behind, kill their target and then get shot off the table, making the Primus an easy target. Same goes for the Clamavus. And the Gunslinger wants to be quite close to the enemy as well.

At 40 points a Locus might not be bad to protect the Primus for a bit. And since Webbers have gotten better I could see cheap ten men Neophyte squads with Webbers screening a Magus etc. Make them Rusted Claw for more durability.

Still though, it seems tough for me to make my characters last. I play against Orks a lot and those Evil Suns are so incredibly fast that they'll reach any character they want.

On another note:

What combos do we have now? Here are the ones from the top of my mind:

- Broodsurge Iconward + Clamavus (+4AE) to give Acolytes +2" to their charge, so they need to make a re-rollable 7" charge when they pop up.

- Patriarch + 1 a s WT + Twisted Helix relic + MfB. Gives you a S8 Patriarch with 9 attacks.

- Rusted Claw Bikers w/ Demo Charges + Alpha + drive-by strat + more explosives strat. Enjoy 5D6 S8 AP-3 D3 shots that hit on 2s and wound most things on 2+.

Would love to hear which other combos we got!

Don't forget the banner relic, to get that patriarch up to S9

In regard to protecting characters, you should/could drop in 20 other bodies to protect the characters. So CP ambush your alpha unit with characters +20 neophytes in support range. Fast scouting units can also get in range to screen by t2.

Audustum wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
Don't plan on that one surviving a FAQ. I doubt the intent was to allow BB to give orders to AM units better then AM proper lol. Again, for now have fun with it, but I would rather make battle plans based on a conservative approach to the rules lawyering.

At least one leak indicated that BB cannot give or receive orders from any source

I've heard this from a couple reviewers too, but they weren't clear if it was only special regimental orders or all orders — the latter would be a huge nerf to brood brothers detachments on top of the half-CP.

Anyone able to see the brood brothers codex page to confirm?

 Red Corsair wrote:

 Niiai wrote:
What is a good use for the hand flamers? In a car?

Literally any use you normally could apply to acolytes. As I said earlier at 1ppm they are never not a good option. So really it is up to your preferred play style. In a truck would work, so does ambushing and so does just letting them fire overwatch lol.

I don't see the handflamers as being a huge overwatch threat. Still only 6" range right? So enemies charging them will just step back and go for a 6" charge. Or depending on positioning, maneuver into a closer position where they're only taking fire from a couple of models.
The 8" range from most flamers is a little harder to get around, as the chances of making an 8" charge aren't so good.
6" though? That's something like a 72% chance of success. Not bad odds.

Khorzain wrote:

Audustum wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
Don't plan on that one surviving a FAQ. I doubt the intent was to allow BB to give orders to AM units better then AM proper lol. Again, for now have fun with it, but I would rather make battle plans based on a conservative approach to the rules lawyering.

At least one leak indicated that BB cannot give or receive orders from any source

I've heard this from a couple reviewers too, but they weren't clear if it was only special regimental orders or all orders — the latter would be a huge nerf to brood brothers detachments on top of the half-CP.

Anyone able to see the brood brothers codex page to confirm?

It's regiment specific orders.

A few reviews got several things wrong.

The BOLS review on youtube gives you a good look of the page at 11:31

 Strat_N8 wrote:

Danny slag wrote:Where's everyone who was losing their mind and getting pissy over me pointing out how a light vehicle with a low number of shots weapon and 5+ to hit isn't good?
How many ridgerunners are your getting? Your foot taste good?

It only hits on a 5+ if it moves, which realistically it shouldn't have to do often since all of its weapon systems have a 36+'' reach and it has no incentive or reason to move towards the foe outside of last-minute objective grabs.

I'm probably going to get 3-6 of the things personally. I was running lists with 8-9 Goliath hulls out of the index and I figure I should be able to get that hull count up to 12 or maybe even 15 between the price drops and the Achilles. Defensively it is another Goliath hull (with its flare launcher) that wants to sit back in midfield and shoot. No other vehicle available has that combination, plus as a <cult> unit it benefits from a Jackal Alphus.

So you're going to take a scout vehicle to sit in the back and snipe? Which even doing so would still only land maybe 1-2 shots per game. I get it, you want them to be cool because the miniatures are amazingly designed. But you're being obtuse, any sane person who's played any 40k immediately looks at those stats and knows it's bad. That's like saying "you could use acolytes as a shooting unit because they have autopistols" sure you could...but all you're doing is using something at something it's terrible at just as an excuse to try to use it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Colonel Cross wrote:
But how is that useful on a 50pt body? I own the heavy mortars for my guard army, and they were barely usable BEFORE the hefty point bump from the earlier CA. I don't see how these would be any different for 58pts, 1 lower strength, and only 1dmg on the weapon ...

Exactly. It's a complete waste of points for a unit that really has no purpose, there's nothing it accomplishes.

I love how you literally had to avoid all of causalis and my own posts regarding it's viability just to support your confirmation bias.

It has some really solid utility.

Instead of insulting anyone that disagrees with your position, try polite debate.

Anyone seen the points cost of the drill? Just curious

Drdotts wrote:
Anyone seen the points cost of the drill? Just curious

Yeah, the Drill is 75 points