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I figured the fact I used question marks indicated I wasn't stating a fact. Lol. I think your interpersonal skills could probably use some work.

40k isn't my only hobby, homie. I can't keep up with everything, it's ski season.

Anyways, assassins probably won't do too much considering we'll bring in most from underground and they'll do their thing before dying. *shrug

Our AM detchaments don’t lose the imperium keyword, do they? Which should allow us to take assassins.

Gordoape wrote:
Our AM detchaments don’t lose the imperium keyword, do they? Which should allow us to take assassins.

You gotta have an AM dude be a warlord to do that.

Ahhh that’s right

Yeah, GSC can't take assassins but Chaos can via Cypher.

I think the Eversor will also be a bit dangerous. It can mulch though hoards like nobodies business.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Yeah, GSC can't take assassins but Chaos can via Cypher.

I think the Eversor will also be a bit dangerous. It can mulch though hoards like nobodies business.

So I'm not a GSC player, but I did use the new Eversor in a match against GSC last night. (who was running 3 battalions) Let me tell you this: he did a fair amount of damage to a big blob of Brood Brothers Infantry...then was utterly mulched as the GSC player brought in some Hand Flamers and the remaining Brood Brothers FRFSRF'd. He did explode for some extra mortal wounds, but it was all in all fairly lackluster and he barely killed half his points.

He's killed too easily by mass small arms fire to really be much of an issue for an army like GSC. He might have some other uses elsewhere, but they only thing you need to avoid is letting him charge your Genestealers, which he could surprisingly put a hurt on.

 Causalis wrote:
Can we get back to the topic before this turns into an unevitable argument?

Right now the Culexus and Vindicare seem to be the most dangerous to the Cult. The Culexus provides protection against our potent psychics and the Vindicare can pick off our squisy characters.

The Culexus is going to be annoying.

Wouldn't have thought the Vindicare is a major concern though. You have unquestioning loyalty to eat the shots (and, a bit weirdly, the induced mortal wounds if he does connect).
I guess you might want to LoS your Nexos - but since that is literally all he wants to do all game thats not the worst thing in the world.

If they take 3 thats going to be annoying - but its also quite a chunk of points to knock out some 50-60 point characters.

Not really related - but having previously gone "lol no" I am possibly warming to the Jackal Alpha+Ridgerunners - although a Russ might be better. On the other hand the Russ degrades.
Kind of wish though that there was a vaguely sensible build for the runner other than heavy mining laser/flare launcher. I feel the mortar and missile launcher should have got double the shots and been a bit more expensive.

The calexus isn't a big deal because you can counter deploy and redeploy outsider his reach. He also dies like a chump to volume of attacks which is pretty much all we do. Hand flamers anyone?

Honestly, the most annoying one is the callidus because she can make our expensive strats more expensive. Honestly, at 85 pts a piece, and needing CP's for themselves I don't think they will be all that game changing. If you bring repeats they burn a detachment and don't give you 1cp. That is pretty crappy.

I brought The Drill to a game last night and lemme tell you, that thing is nasty against...other genestealer cult armies. Hitting multiple grouped up characters and units on a 4+ can do some work. Won’t kill anything on its own but will weaken things considerably, especially lots of MSU.

I haven’t read through all 20 pages yet so this may have been discussed already, but what’s the opinion of taking a supreme command detachment of AM to take a shadow sword or one of the other variants?

 Badablack wrote:
I brought The Drill to a game last night and lemme tell you, that thing is nasty against...other genestealer cult armies. Hitting multiple grouped up characters and units on a 4+ can do some work. Won’t kill anything on its own but will weaken things considerably, especially lots of MSU.

The issue I have with it are it needing a detachment slot and also only being able to seismic quake once per battle.

3x drill detachment go

that thing will rock socks man

Also makes a decent gun tower for Heavy Weapon teams. Use the lurk in the shadows stratagem if you want them untargetable and have CP spare....

The Drill also lets you put another unit in reserve if you’re going all in on deepstriking. That plus the other 3 from the ambush token stratagem can put just about your whole army in reserve.

I'm thinking of playing an Objective based list.

Use a mix of Blips and Deepstrike to pile onto objectives ASAP, with some muscle stuff to give the enemy a hard time.

At present, that includes 3 Manticores from a Spearhead detachment. Not needing LoS means I can have a crack at anything. Depending on my opponent's list, I'll either priortise Big Nasty Units or ObSec type Troops - to give me an easier time.

Hopefully, those three combined with an Abominant and two small units of Aberrants will let me apply and maintain serious pressure, whilst my Hybrids just sit around racking up easy VPs. Depending on the cards I draw, I could end up with a headstart my opponent will struggle with.

To support this, I'm plumping for Rusted Claw. Once the Hybrids are in cover, that save boost can give me a 3+, which is jolly nice on T3, 5 point dudes!

How good is the idea of using a mass infantry army with twisted helix advancing up the field? They have +1 S and also +2 advance, which could make them pretty interesting for this.

I'm really torn as to how useful that is.

On one hand, the advantages are clear to see. Of course they are.

But on the other, between Blip shenanigans and being able to drop stuff pretty much wherever we fancy, I don't rank it as useful as others.

I for one don't intend on having to do a great deal of movement overall, at least not with my Troops. They drop in, seize and hold the objective, then camp out. Rusted Claw is a natural match there, for the reasons in my post above. Turns an otherwise squishy unit into some far harder to remove. And if I've got heavy hitters rampaging about, the intent is to overwhelm my opponent with valid targets, further diluting what he can throw at me whilst I'm busy racking up early VPs.

So for my approach (and I'm only commenting on that), I'm not sure Twisted Helix is all that useful.

I agree to some extend, when you consider your approach. If you use maelstrom it is certainly usefull to have +2 advance, because you will have to move.

I really have problems with the underground assault being good enough to charge everything. 9 inch away is just so risky. If you are not able to perfect ambush and/or have a clamavus, you will have to walk a part of the field anyway.
So imho you can just pop-in two units (turn 2 and 3) with A perfect ambush to get the charge reliably. So you will have just two assault units making a charge without needing to walk up the field. Even with 4AE you just have 42% success for the charge...

As far as Assassins go, I think GSC have less to worry about than any other faction. Between Unquestioning Loyalty and our ability to almost null deploy, we should be able to take out any Assassins before they come anywhere close to earning their points back.

 Astmeister wrote:
How good is the idea of using a mass infantry army with twisted helix advancing up the field? They have +1 S and also +2 advance, which could make them pretty interesting for this.

I'm utilizing 60 Helix Acolytes, but i'm not likely to be running them up the table.

I also have 60 Rusted Claw Neophytes, but again, unlikely to be running up the table, but they'll be camping objectives.

Our "Massive Horde" potential is very high.

So if you use 60 Acolytes what do you do with them? You can only put 40 of them on the table via A perfect ambush. The last 20 will probably not make the charge after deep strike. Even if you use Clamavus + 4AE.

I'll be direct, I don't know what you mean by "You can only put 40 of them on the table".

They're, more or less, all going to be hunkering down in Reserve with a Clamavus and their Broodsurge Iconward, coming down in waves.

8" Charge with reroll, and/or CP reroll, gives relative reliability.

If they're on the table in any capacity turn 1 they're going to die to any level of shooting, so I see little value on them being elsewhere.

I run them entirely naked, zero upgrades, so even if a charge fails for one reason or another, at the very least I haven't invested heavily in their wargear.

My list was posted on previous pages, you're welcome to check it out.

Here's my opinion, for what it's worth on the internet:

I'm warm to the Twisted Helix. I don't like non-Perfect Ambush charges and getting a measly +1 from 4-Armed doesn't seem worth a whole trait. Twisted Helix and Pauper Prince are interesting to me but I prefer Twisted Helix ATM because it has much more utility with the +2 to advance rolls and the buff I most often want to give my units as a permanent feature that doesn't require extra work. The Pauper Prince Warlod Trait is nuts (+2 to Unquestioning Loyalty for Warlord) but doesn't tip the scales for me. Pauper Prince can save you a lot of points not taking Primus models or Cult Icons and also maximizes buffs like Might From Beyond...but drops off quickly post charge.

I think Acolytes and Patriarch do all the heavy lifting for this army. Point for point they are insanely efficient. Why bring Abberants at all? Acolytes with the +1 wound strat from Deliverance Broodsurge is bonkers. Purestrains seem meh in point for point comparison with Acolytes. Acolytes can be tooled for any target. Pick Abberants are great but with Twisted Helix I think I prefer Metamorphs over Abberants point for point. This ends up saving a ton of points.

Unquestioning Loyalty is an incredible ability combined with the super efficient Patriarch. I'm taking 2 Patriarchs, surrounded with 20 Neophytes. You can outfit the Patriarchs for different roles via traits and gear. The 20 Neophytes and any support characters also augment and enhance the role. Twisted Helix Locus models for instance are pretty amazing with S5 at only 40 points.

I even like Twisted Helix bikers. Take them with all Cultists Knives. I still want the Quad for the flamer since I'm want them for screen clearing. Cast Psychic Stimulus on them and they are likely to get a turn 1 charge off and tie up annoying units or even do a decent job of clearing screens. I can't think of any other unit we get that can get a turn 1 charge off with this much range. Hopefully they can trap units easily with the long bases, not do too much damage and remain safe from enemy shooting.

I also find that the codex is pushing me to have the same Cult Creed across all my detachments. Mixing and matching really locks you in tactically when your aura buffs all require the same keywords to work. Going mono Creed gives way more ability to adapt and avoid stranded characters who can no longer contribute to the game once the unit they were buffing is weakened.

It’s also about swamping the enemy with targets.

As an army, we’ve got cheap chaff up the wazoo, and some real heavy hitters for largely reasonable cost.

Trick is, as far I’m concerned, to overwhelm the enemy. Not necessarily in combat, but with threats. It takes a lot to stop Aberrants in their tracks. But if we’re also holding or at least contesting multiple, if not all, objectives, that’s also a pressure our opponent needs to address. Get it wrong, and I’ll either be wrecking face, or bagging loads of VPs though Tactical Objectives.

Me, I’m adding a Sanctus and a Kelermorph for just that reason. Yes they’re pretty much death on toast with a side of fried gold against characters if we get an open shot at the buggers. But even if my opponent is dodging them, that’s still good enough for me, because I’m then controlling the flow of the game, and reducing their options. This goes doubly so if they’re depending on saucy bubblebuffs. If they can’t safely keek their head out, I’m reducing that threat.

This is also why I’m completely sold on Manticores as support. They can hit like a ton of bricks, and don’t need LoS. Three of those in the first turn have a decent chance of deleting stuff I don’t want to face for any length of time. Possibly two such units, if the dice are favourable. And all without draining my CP pool. If there’s big Nasties, they’re getting tonked turn one. But if the big nasty is included at the expense of reliable scoring units, it’s those few scoring units I’ll be looking to turn into little splutchy pancakes.

Control, control, control. That’s where I see the key to victory. We can rock up pretty much wherever best suits. And we do a damned fine game of Find The Lady with our Blips, further stacking things in our favour for the early game. If we can get good at controlling the first four turns, chances are we’ll have opened up a serious lead in the VP stakes.

If we can keep our opponents second guessing and not really knowing which threat to deal with and in what order, the game is ours but for how the dice land.

Caspian89 wrote: I think Acolytes and Patriarch do all the heavy lifting for this army. Point for point they are insanely efficient. Why bring Abberants at all? Acolytes with the +1 wound strat from Deliverance Broodsurge is bonkers. Purestrains seem meh in point for point comparison with Acolytes. Acolytes can be tooled for any target. Pick Abberants are great but with Twisted Helix I think I prefer Metamorphs over Abberants point for point. This ends up saving a ton of points.

True, I'am not a big fan of the abberants. I rather pick a big acolyte unit with the right tools. But I don't understand the appeal of metamorphs. I want one metapmorph unit with talons as an option for summoning but I would not include them in my list.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Control, control, control. That’s where I see the key to victory. We can rock up pretty much wherever best suits. And we do a damned fine game of Find The Lady with our Blips, further stacking things in our favour for the early game. If we can get good at controlling the first four turns, chances are we’ll have opened up a serious lead in the VP stakes. If we can keep our opponents second guessing and not really knowing which threat to deal with and in what order, the game is ours but for how the dice land.

Yep, but you really got to decide when to use your army as a scalpel or go in like a hammer. At a testgame I once deployed my acolyte bomb (3x20 acolytes) in front of 30 orks with +1 charge and reroll charge (broodsurge detachment). The all failed... At the other side of the battlefield I deployed 30 acolytes with flamers 3 inch away from another ork unit and charged with a big acolyte unit another ork unit (perfect ambush). I should have waited with my acolyte bomb because their was no reason not to wait until the next turn because then I could use 'perfect ambush' again. I should have left that flank alone and focus on the other side, but I was to eager.

There’s definitely a steep learning curve with GSC. Learning when and how best to spend our CP is pretty critical.

Me? I’m not entirely sold on the usual trickery. I mean it’s good, don’t get me wrong. But I fear opponents will come to expect it, and act accordingly. More tempting to my mind to use the target denial and ‘they’ve scarpered’ ones at opportune moments. They’ve Scarpered particularly appeals, as if I’m keeping my objectives secret, there’s a reasonable chance I can get my opponent on a wild goose chase with at least one unit.

And in not particularly sporting terms, don’t forget that a frustrated opponent is more prone to making mistakes. By no means does this mean we should add ‘act like a total Richard’ to our repetoir. Just that we should be open to playing silly buggers if it means our opponent is kept baffled and chasing ghosts. And we can’t readily do that if we’ve cashed in our CP for early game tricks.

I've still not had a chance to get a game in yet. How many CPs do we need at 1500 points once the game gets started?

I want to have a battalion and a vanguard, and make one a Deilverance Broodsurge and the other an Anointed Throng, butas I also want a broodcoven and Grandsire's Gifts I'll be leaving myself with only 5+d3 CP. I'm thinking that might not be enough?

I'll have lots of built in advantages, but will I regret not having access to in-game stratagems?

 Fifty wrote:
I've still not had a chance to get a game in yet. How many CPs do we need at 1500 points once the game gets started?

I want to have a battalion and a vanguard, and make one a Deilverance Broodsurge and the other an Anointed Throng, but I'll be leaving myself with only 5+d3 CP. I'm thinking that might not be enough?

I'll have lots of built in advantages, but will I regret not having access to in-game stratagems?

it depends a bit. It is smart to do a count. Do you plan to use perfect ambush turn 2 and 3? Thqt is 6 cp. Do you have a unit that needs lying i wait? That is another 2 cp.

Do you need any re-rolls? Yiu know, for that charge you do not make etc.

Difficult question.

It really hinges on how you want to run your army.

Me? I can’t do the 12cp formation, because I want 3 Manticores allied in. That means by the time I’ve added the infantry I need, I don’t have the points to pack in the rest of the minimums.

In turn, that dictates how I run my force overall. With comparatively few CP (10 total) I just can’t do the sort of tricks many espouse. But looking at our Stratagems, there is quite a lot I can do.

Now, first turn I’m spending a minimum of 2, realistically. 1CP to hide my Tactical Objectives, and 1CP to re-roll the number of shots for one of my Manticores (I may not need to, and won’t if I don’t have to, but best to factor it in as a given) to ensure maximum first turn carnage.

From there, it depends on my initial deployment, and that of my enemy. If I feel Find The Lady with my Blips is required (or indeed bunging more stuff down the sewer), then so be it. But, I’m of a mind to store them for later. I feel it may be wiser to do so, as it’ll let me use Return to the Shadows and Lurk in the Shadows later on, aiming to frustrate my opponent,

But, this is all due to my own approach. As noted in other posts, I’m aiming for board control. Swamp Objectives early on. Rack up those VPs as fast as possible, and from as many sources as possible. Idea there is to force my opponent to be solely reactive, always chasing their tail whilst I potter about being up to no good.

Either way, I’ll have relatively few CP, so really need to think about what they’re best spent on, and when.

Some of the tricks I can potentially replicate with a Magus using Psychic Stimulus. Whilst less reliable, it’s essentially a free ‘Perfect Ambush’ each turn. 6+ to cast it, and that unit can Advance and Charge in the same turn. Whilst not as outright nasty as other powers open to us, it is potentially game winning.

For me, it really is all about seizing control of the flow of the battle, and getting those VPs faster than my opponent, and in ways he can’t really prevent.

I have some questions:

1: What is the goliath for? I can not deside it's intended purpose, nor what gun to put on it.

2: So much of our army crumbles to the slightest breese. Is it alpha strikes all the way?

3: Charging. How do you pull it off? We can do a perfect ambush turn 2 and 3. But what else outside of that`?

4: How do you deside of what to perfect ambush?

Acolyte hybrids with weapons and genstealers seems like the best all rounders. Hybrid Metamrophs and Abberants seems specialised vs no armour saves and vs heavy tragets respectivly.

5: What are good set ups for neophyte hybrids? What roles can they do?

6: What do the different cult creeds do well?