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Darsath wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

Darsath wrote:
I think it's very important to keep politics as FAR away from this forum as possible. A lot of people want to get away from politics when they come here, myself included.

Considering how wh40k started and considering how much satire is in it, did that work out for you?

Edit: to clarify it is an honest question.

It has. Shockingly so. I think it also helps that where I play, everyone kind of agrees to not talk politics. Instead we talk almost exclusively hobby related stuff (or video games and movies if we wanna drift off).

Interesting, i suspected though that the old fluff would be more difficult to not see the satire of it with you beeing from over there and what not.
Tbh i also feel like discussion about anything really has turned worse, respectively the capability to disscus anything thanks to social media.

But maybee i get old.

People have been killing each other over political differences for - well - generations. It's nothing new; in fact we've come a long way! Used to be politicians duelled over issues if they got heated enough!

Then again we still have football hooligans and gangs- people willing to fight and even kill over nothing more than the fact that they support one city team and the other people support another in a game of kicking a ball around a football pitch.



Nope its nothing new; but its often the case that as children we zone it out and don't notice it so it appears new as we get much older. Heck even as an adult you can ignore a lot of politics if you choose too (just turning off the news instantly isolates you for a lot of the daily drama around the topic).


And yeah you can very much have events and talk geeky stuff without poiltics coming into it. Sure the odd reference will appear here and there, but by and large you can do it without having to get into any political real world discussion.

 Overread wrote:
People have been killing each other over political differences for - well - generations. It's nothing new; in fact we've come a long way! Used to be politicians duelled over issues if they got heated enough!

Then again we still have football hooligans and gangs- people willing to fight and even kill over nothing more than the fact that they support one city team and the other people support another in a game of kicking a ball around a football pitch.



Nope its nothing new; but its often the case that as children we zone it out and don't notice it so it appears new as we get much older. Heck even as an adult you can ignore a lot of politics if you choose too (just turning off the news instantly isolates you for a lot of the daily drama around the topic).


And yeah you can very much have events and talk geeky stuff without poiltics coming into it. Sure the odd reference will appear here and there, but by and large you can do it without having to get into any political real world discussion.

Can't say i was never not interested in politics. Infact i can't say that about most swiss people considering the study i recently got to see.

Then again maybee our system is just more interactive therefore politics especially Policy more prevalent and discussions about it more needed then elsewhere.

Regardless certain topics need a more ritualised discussion Format i think, one in which people try to avoid personell questions and a more balanced approach.

I do not necessarily agree therefore with the politics ban but i can see that it makes live easier for the mods which is a good thing since they do a good job for free.

 Ginjitzu wrote:
I've never understood this rule. How come it's acceptable for us to tear the living piss out of each other because of our taste in a particular shape of plastic, or whether a rule is clear or not, but the mere mention of a politician is prohibited? What gives?

Overread wrote:
Because the majority of people calm down when the argument is "marines VS tyrainds" or whatever. Sure people can get a bit heated and excited, but by and large the majority take it casually.
When it comes to politics things get ugly fast. People don't calm down, they get worse. Arguments boil over and go right into personal insults and mud slinging and before you know if you've got a chunk of people hating on each other. It basically results in loads of reports of insults, harassments and sets up long term feuds between people very fast.

Allow me to direct you to the Background and You Make Da Call subforums kind sir.

Adeptus Doritos wrote:Calling someone subhuman filth because they cheated is wholesome and righteous.

Not Online!!! wrote:
I do not necessarily agree therefore with the politics ban but i can see that it makes live easier for the mods which is a good thing since they do a good job for free.

That's fair.

By default, when someone tries to drag politics into gaming I assume one of the following:

-their political opinions are too stupid for political discussion groups, so they have to bring them elsewhere

-they are deliberately looking to start some kind of drama or conflict

-they delusionally believe that their political opinions are an objective truth and have yet to encounter someone who will tell it which hole they can stuff it into/blow it out of

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
By default, when someone tries to drag politics into gaming I assume one of the following:

-their political opinions are too stupid for political discussion groups, so they have to bring them elsewhere

-they are deliberately looking to start some kind of drama or conflict

-they delusionally believe that their political opinions are an objective truth and have yet to encounter someone who will tell it which hole they can stuff it into/blow it out of

Personally I find telling them to take their heresy elsewhere before we call the inquisition tends to get them to take that nonsence outside of hobby time. But also lucky enough to have a group thats mostly middle age dudes with jobs and partners etc so everyone is pretty much just wanting the same thing of all banter no realworld BS.

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
By default, when someone tries to drag politics into gaming I assume one of the following:

-their political opinions are too stupid for political discussion groups, so they have to bring them elsewhere

-they are deliberately looking to start some kind of drama or conflict

-they delusionally believe that their political opinions are an objective truth and have yet to encounter someone who will tell it which hole they can stuff it into/blow it out of

one issue, is that humans are political. And things we create are. Just as often its the people who say that politics should be kept out of gaming, are just as guilty of fueling it with there own politics.
Being understanding of issues is important, and its great when people are able to just walk out of politics. Its healthy to be able to walk away from it

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
By default, when someone tries to drag politics into gaming I assume one of the following:

-their political opinions are too stupid for political discussion groups, so they have to bring them elsewhere

-they are deliberately looking to start some kind of drama or conflict

-they delusionally believe that their political opinions are an objective truth and have yet to encounter someone who will tell it which hole they can stuff it into/blow it out of

You realise that maintaining the Status quo by not allowing any discussion is equally political?

That said i feel that you don't give humans the Credit they deserve when discussing politics, but i will admit freely that that might be a too optimistic statement of mine.

Enough of the politics digression please.

 ingtaer wrote:
Enough of the politics digression please.

> Has a decent discuassion why politics is banned on Dakka.
> Explore the many fold reasons why.
> States that the mods generally do a good job at modding.
> Also state that modern social interaction / lack thereoff probably have impeded on the capability of discussion in a civil manner.

> Basically not a political discussion but rather one why it became so heated in the first place which lead to the Dakka mods closing the politics thread, which was accepted by all in this thread as acceptable.

> New mod comes in and literally tries to shut down a discussion about the root problem by saying it is politics.......


See the irony ?



___________________________


Anyways, considering how much trouble and calls for blood (figuratively) the LVO cheating caused i am completely willing to say the hobby is just as it allways was.

Yeah, basically to all your points especially the last one. These newer mods seem to be taking their "job" too seriously. We had a threat getting really heated a while back (I think it was another PL vs. Points thread) that had a longterm mod participating in it regularly including dealing with at least one rather hostile poster, and zero issues whatsoever.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 ingtaer wrote:
Enough of the politics digression please.

> Has a decent discuassion why politics is banned on Dakka.
> Explore the many fold reasons why.
> States that the mods generally do a good job at modding.
> Also state that modern social interaction / lack thereoff probably have impeded on the capability of discussion in a civil manner.

> Basically not a political discussion but rather one why it became so heated in the first place which lead to the Dakka mods closing the politics thread, which was accepted by all in this thread as acceptable.

> New mod comes in and literally tries to shut down a discussion about the root problem by saying it is politics.......


See the irony ?



___________________________


Anyways, considering how much trouble and calls for blood (figuratively) the LVO cheating caused i am completely willing to say the hobby is just as it allways was.

No you see have misrepresented what I said, see the bit I highlighted in orange? That is not what I did, I asked for the "digression" to please cease. This thread is about 40k community drama and whilst some of that will involve politics posts like this;

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
So, weird observations I've witnessed, at my brick and mortar.

1. Players in store - mostly 18-25, somehow wealthy, left leaning politics.
2. Players at the one east coast gaming event ive been to - mostly 21-30s, rich adults with good pay and seemingly a ton of personal time (Programmers/investment bankers?) MAJORITY right wing, like, bad. Lotta MAGA jokes, lotta Trump conversations, a lot of mildly Incel behavior, a lot of weird gross infatuation with extreme right wing German gak. Patches, badges, slogans, insignia. Like, I understand if you like DKoK, but if you have a bunch of WW2 german army gak on you, that isn't 40k.

A lot of chat groups/forums on 40k stuff I've seen online bear some of the same. Has anyone noticed a weird right wing slant to the recent players at events?

Granted - EXTREMELY small sample size on my part, but it really ruined the competitive hobby side for me.

Are exactly the reason why we don't allow politics here and why this thread was reported. As well as it being off topic.

 ingtaer wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 ingtaer wrote:
Enough of the politics digression please.

> Has a decent discuassion why politics is banned on Dakka.
> Explore the many fold reasons why.
> States that the mods generally do a good job at modding.
> Also state that modern social interaction / lack thereoff probably have impeded on the capability of discussion in a civil manner.

> Basically not a political discussion but rather one why it became so heated in the first place which lead to the Dakka mods closing the politics thread, which was accepted by all in this thread as acceptable.

> New mod comes in and literally tries to shut down a discussion about the root problem by saying it is politics.......


See the irony ?



___________________________


Anyways, considering how much trouble and calls for blood (figuratively) the LVO cheating caused i am completely willing to say the hobby is just as it allways was.

No you see have misrepresented what I said, see the bit I highlighted in orange? That is not what I did, I asked for the "digression" to please cease. This thread is about 40k community drama and whilst some of that will involve politics posts like this;

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
So, weird observations I've witnessed, at my brick and mortar.

1. Players in store - mostly 18-25, somehow wealthy, left leaning politics.
2. Players at the one east coast gaming event ive been to - mostly 21-30s, rich adults with good pay and seemingly a ton of personal time (Programmers/investment bankers?) MAJORITY right wing, like, bad. Lotta MAGA jokes, lotta Trump conversations, a lot of mildly Incel behavior, a lot of weird gross infatuation with extreme right wing German gak. Patches, badges, slogans, insignia. Like, I understand if you like DKoK, but if you have a bunch of WW2 german army gak on you, that isn't 40k.

A lot of chat groups/forums on 40k stuff I've seen online bear some of the same. Has anyone noticed a weird right wing slant to the recent players at events?

Granted - EXTREMELY small sample size on my part, but it really ruined the competitive hobby side for me.

Are exactly the reason why we don't allow politics here and why this thread was reported. As well as it being off topic.

Then why not specify the Post you took issue and instead just put an ominous comment warning down.

I'd argue the way a lot of these threads seem to go (and really, every thread of recent where any disagreement turns into internet blood sports) proves there's still a tremendous degree of drama within the 40k community. There's a large number of 'personalities' who pop up in every thread to make claims designed to start arguments (a bit back there was a thread talking about how you needed every book ever released for 8th edition to play 8th edition, obviously an attempt to try and start some trouble).

If you don't think there's very much drama in 40k communities, say any of the following anywhere:

-"The new Commissar isn't very good "
-"Original Space Marines will very likely be phased out"
-"Horus Heresy isn't as popular as its players want to believe"
-"It's not fun playing against a Knight list."
-"Every store should have a policy against poor hygiene."

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
If you don't think there's very much drama in 40k communities, say any of the following anywhere:

-"The new Commissar isn't very good "
-"Original Space Marines will very likely be phased out"
-"Horus Heresy isn't as popular as its players want to believe"
-"It's not fun playing against a Knight list."
-"Every store should have a policy against poor hygiene."

1. I don't like her but Personal tastes vary.
2. That is conjecture and Argumentation can be made concievable for both sides, altough i suspect a partial stopping is possible.
3. Highly depends on the lists involved, don't you think.
4. Probably.


I think tournament discussion would've been a better exemple Doritos.

Or 5: ask about female space marines...

 darkcloak wrote:
Or 5: ask about female space marines...

I wasn't gonna do that because that's how we get those mysterious "New members to the forum" and lectures about how little plastic toys are somehow related to domestic violence or some nonsense.

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:

 darkcloak wrote:
Or 5: ask about female space marines...

I wasn't gonna do that because that's how we get those mysterious "New members to the forum" and lectures about how little plastic toys are somehow related to domestic violence or some nonsense.

Mwuhahahaha! Let the galaxy burn!!!

 darkcloak wrote:

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:

 darkcloak wrote:
Or 5: ask about female space marines...

I wasn't gonna do that because that's how we get those mysterious "New members to the forum" and lectures about how little plastic toys are somehow related to domestic violence or some nonsense.

Mwuhahahaha! Let the galaxy burn!!!

That would be 2 CP and your soul please.

Ok maybee we discount your soul and just ban you for 5 mins.

 darkcloak wrote:
Or 5: ask about female space marines...

Honestly if GW had been better about the rest of there lines, I think this would be less of a issue.

With the other things, the places I have been discussing it has been almost entirely civil with little issues.

I think that argument wasn't so much about 40k or GW and more about using a popular setting as a vehicle for discussion. Albeit a terribly one sided discussion that usually resulted in the shaming of its opponents, but hey! It does seem to have dropped off the radar, or maybe I just stopped giving a damn what people think about my little plastic soldiers.

I think that if GW had supported SoB better over the years that would have helped a bit more too. Instead they just cranked out some lead and let it sit on a shelf for 20 years.

Back on topic though, you can all stop worrying about the lack of drama here now. I'm back! And unlike a certain planetary landing craft I'm here to stay, original SKU and everything... So I guess that means there are no quick play rules in my box.

Things that i find cause the most drama is when things we like are "threatened".

I see no shortage of the speculation that the new Primaris Marines will harald the old SM's quietly disappearing in future game updates.
That gets the older folk with way too many of these models, all upset.
I barely got over retiring my old metal terminators or the base size change.

SoB have been brought up quite a few times, rightly so.
They seem to be so close to being "Squat" 'ed if is frustrating, never mind a squad is ~$100.
Fans of this army are pretty die-hard (rightly so) so i think this is the second non-codex update I had seen for the army not including Index's.

My friend is all upset his Ork looted tanks are only listed in power levels and not points.

I had mentioned much earlier with Kirby at the helm of GW we could see players dropping off and rules bloat was insane and prices skyrocketed = loss of player-base and a game some have played for decades looked like it was going to die.

I have WAY too many GW models / armies, I am certain the cost would be in the tens of thousands in cost (spaced out over some 30 years however), I could say I would be more than upset if anything happened to this game.

I can't speak for live events in the "olden days," but you also have to factor in the filtering of online communities into moderated and un-moderated spaces. You still have thriving communities like /tg/ over on 4chan, which mainly features trolls trying to troll each other in one big frothy circlejerk.

Hankovitch wrote:
I can't speak for live events in the "olden days," but you also have to factor in the filtering of online communities into moderated and un-moderated spaces. You still have thriving communities like /tg/ over on 4chan, which mainly features trolls trying to troll each other in one big frothy circlejerk.

I've found that a lot of unpleasantness these days has come from the leaking of places like 4chan into the rest of the world in ways we didnt see back say, a decade ago. 4chan was never been a pleasant place, but there was a time when it was understood that it was all a big bowl of piss, and it was where people went to get that out of their system and be goofy in a relatively isolated and confined space where none of it would really interact much with the real world, much like the somethingawful boards it originally spawned from. People would say or share terrible things usually without meaning them, people would giggle, and then it'd be forgotten. The problem became when some people decided they actually liked the taste of piss, they forgot you weren't supposed to drink it, and they started to believe the stuff being said and engage in those same behaviors outside of the once confined imageboards. I think for many people, it was really their only source of social interaction and their behavior adapted accordingly.

I used to roll around these places daily, and a lot of good stuff still pops up there, but there has definitely been a tonal shift over time.

Let's face it, you are always going to get people on forums who can peddle their own brand of nonsense relatively unscathed due to the anonymity which forums offer - be that political or otherwise.

Basically some people are just natural born ass hats.

On forums they generally act in an inflammatory manner in order to get attention, starve them of it and bingo they generally move on. Hence, don't feed the troll.

On a more positive note, yet off topic, WWWWHHHHHHOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH big new Chaos release coming, yay.

I find 40k not quite as funny these days as the world becomes more dystopian.
Almost every element of the 40k "fluff" literature was meant to be pretty over the top.
Any time people get their knickers in a knot about 40k they just need to watch this and all will be well:
<edit>NOTE! Does have some "colourful" language, you have been warned!

Most drama I see nowadays is people being creeps, not so much arguments or anything like that. Getting caught sending PMs to women of a decidedly horrifying nature, etc.

Almost every element of the 40k "fluff" literature was meant to be pretty over the top.

I can't think of a single thing included as bad things in the w40k lore bad-things-that-can-happen-to-you that didn't happen in my country the last 100-150 years. The models, or some of them do look goofy like orcs or necron, but the lore is more or less spot on what happens in the world. the only thing I do miss in the world comparing to the w40k lore is how fast do they rebuild or that they can rebuild at all from some stuff. In a way it is a rather optimistic view of the future, specialy considering how more deadly the enviroment is with just not humans trying to wack each other.

Karol wrote:

Almost every element of the 40k "fluff" literature was meant to be pretty over the top.

I can't think of a single thing included as bad things in the w40k lore bad-things-that-can-happen-to-you that didn't happen in my country the last 100-150 years. The models, or some of them do look goofy like orcs or necron, but the lore is more or less spot on what happens in the world. the only thing I do miss in the world comparing to the w40k lore is how fast do they rebuild or that they can rebuild at all from some stuff. In a way it is a rather optimistic view of the future, specialy considering how more deadly the enviroment is with just not humans trying to wack each other.

You speaking as a citizen of Poland that says something.

A country that has been pretty much unstable and under attack for quite literally hundreds of years.
1795 invasions from Russian Empire, Kingdom of Prussia and the Austrian Habsburg Monarchy.
1918 Second Polish Republic established.
1918-1921 Six border wars including the Polish-Czechoslovak over Cieszyn Silesia
1919-1919 Greater Poland Uprising
1919-1921 Three Silesian uprisings.
1920 East Prussian plebiscite
1921 Upper Silesia plebiscite
1920-1935 The May "coup" military overthrow.
1938 Annexed a portion of land from Lithuania.
1939 to 1945 Destroyed by Nazi Germany
1944 to 1952 Soviet Union continued the destruction with them as a communist satellite state.

You know looking at all this and a few familiar 40k names I saw in history, the Imperium is completely based on the Polish!
There has been pretty much only war.
I would hazard a guess that the Russians are the Orks and the Germans as the Eldar.

I will have to bug my friend who has a strong cultural affinity with the Cossacks.