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2019/02/14 04:26:42
Subject: Update on Hive Fleet Tiamet and what they are building.
Just because Tyranids can completely strip the useful resources from a planet does not mean they have no waste. For a start, we know that Tyranid fleets are most vulnerable when they first enter the galaxy, and they usually try to avoid heavily-fortified worlds in this time to replenish... something. Perhaps it is just energy, not biomass.
No, before Leviathan humanity ASSUMED that. But Leviathan proves it false. Leviathan entered the galaxy ready to go.
You know this how? We know Leviathan entered from below the Galactic plain, but it was only discovered by the wider Imperium after noming a bunch of unimportant little frontier worlds, that were only noted to be in a patter by Kryptman's statistical analysis. We have no information of their strength at arrival beyomd the wide front they attacked on. The galaxy is not a disc, it bulges in the middle. There are still frontier worlds above and below the plane.
Secondly, a scorched earth strategy has proven effective at slowing down Hive fleets and weakening them- Kryptmann got excommunicated for it, but his strategies did weaken and damage much of Hive Fleet Leviathan. This suggests that without constant resupply of... something, Hive fleets do weaken, apparently in particular after long interstellar journeys. It can't be simply energy, because they could replenish from a dead world that has received exterminatus, or any number of lifeless solar systems. We also know that Tyranids prioritise high-yield worlds over other options if possible, even though they can still strip plenty of useful resources from a lifeless world- Hive fleets even leech minerals out of the crusts of planets they devour.
Kryptman did not weaken or slow down the tendril of Leviathan. He redirected it into the orks where they have been fighting in Octarius non stop since. Yes. Tyranids DO prioritize high yield worlds. That doesn't imply hunger. That implies intelligent gathering of resources. See the mining iron explanation. The Hive Mind CHOOSES to strip mine worlds since we now know it's NOT strip mining some. And we know it CHOOSES to strip mine worlds with lots of resources over worlds with little resources. It sounds like a driving intelligence with a galactic scale plan. Not a ravenous beast.
Elements vital to life- carbon, hydrogen etc- are far more abundant in the galaxy than life using them. Why do Hive fleets not just nom a bunch of lifeless, undefended worlds in the depths of space to gain organic materials to grow their fleets before they finally overwhelm the life ofbthe galaxy with unstoppable numbers?
In the past they have simply gone after whatever source was best/closest. A galactic scale predator doesn't seam particularly put off by planetary civilizations. And then again, the Hive mind is so alien that trying to figure out WHY it does the things it does is one of the problems.
All their actions suggest a sense of urgency, or they would play the long game and nom lifeless systems instead of defended high-yield systems. This suggests two things. Either the Tyranids do need to eat regularly to maintain a growimg fleet, and the crossing of the void between galaxies seriously hurts them, or they are runing from something even more nasty and cannot afford to hang around systematically nomnoming every last scrap.
Having hive fleets trickle in over centuries isn't much of an urgency. But good repeating of humanities theories about what they think the nids are doing.
As a hypothetical, perhaps they loose biomass and energy whilst they do their gravity jump thing, so they are in a constant battle against that.
It's a hypothetical with no real evidence to back it up.
A hypothetical. Perhaps grass is not really green but red, it's simply our minds that perceive it as green?
Further to the above, we also know that Tyranids avoid certain situations if they can help it, at least until they are strong enough to deal with it efficiently or, presumably, the risk-reward ratio is sufficiently in their favour.
A good example is Tomb worlds- Hive fleets generally try to avoid these. They must be low yield, as Tomb worlds are often barren, and the weapons of the Necrons likely irreversible cost attacking fleets biomass.
Again, this implies a strategic intelligence. Not hunger. If the nids loose in a battle over a planet they actually loose resources until they can overwhelm and take that planet back. If the Nids WIN on a planet, they loose nothing and gain everything. If the ships were starving, if the great devourers ravenous endless hunger was actually what drove them the way that the 3rd party implies then these decisions would be based in that hunger. They don't appear to be.
I see no reason why Tyranids can recover all of their biomass losses when taking a world either. We know Tyranids to not consume everything, because they leave a ball of rock. Therefore there are resources that Tyranids cannot consume, are not worth the effort to consume, or simply are not useful to Tyranids. So everytime a 'Nid gets hit by a sufficiently powerful weapon from basically any race, the 'Nid biomass is going to undergo some nuclear reactions and some of it will become unrecoverable elements. Plasma weaponry is likely to do this, as well as fusion and fission weapons, and potentially even very high-powered laser weapons, like Titan-grade ones. Vortex and distortion weaponry will also obviously cause irretrievably biomass loss.
They consume all ORGANIC matter. Inorganic matter is left behind. Pull out your periodic table of elements and go over organic elements vs inorganic elements. Even if a necrons gauss weaponry breaks down a nid into it's base elements those elements are still organic. Boil away a nid into a cloud of gasses and those gasses are still made up of all the base organic elements needed to make a new nid.
Therefore, every engagement is going to result in some Tyranid biomass being converted into useless forms. Particularly stubborn planets could even result in a net loss for an attacking fleet if they have devasting weaponry on hand. Fleet actions are likely to be especially costly- not only is almost every ship-grade weapon going to be of sufficient power to cause biomass loss (Imperial ships routinely using fusion-plasma warheads, fissile warheads and even vortex weaponry), but some debris will be scattered into the void and become impractical to recover. This may explain why Tyranids are extremely aggressive in fleet actions, because firepower duels hurt them far more in the long run than boarding actions and melee.
Essentially there is no guarantee Tyranid forces can recover lost biomass upon victory within a system, and this risk is increased in some scenarios (Necrons, Eldar, void battles for example). This provides another incentive to feed.
The space battle part you have right at least but for only some of your reasons. First, and chunk that flies off into space DOES become less likely to be recovered any time soon. (but eventually... eventually). But the real reason for the aggression is that the troops don't matter. The hive ships that make the troops do. All the drama of the ultramarines fighting tooth and nail for every inch of land on maccragge is nonsense. Because none of it matters as long as the hive ships are still in the air.
It's what is happening in octarius. The orks fight the nids in x battle field while the nids use feeder organisms to gather biomass over in Y. Then they lead the battle over to Y while they gather up all the biomass from x. As long as they can recoup the losses (AND gain the orks biomass) they can do this forever. Unless the Orks decide to fight them in orbit they are not actually fighting them at all.
Before Kryptman created the Octarius war, he created the galactic cordon, which "slowed Leviathan's advance to a crawl". This was a policy of using Exterminatus on worlds invaded by the Tyranids to destroy the biomass invested, and in the path of the Tyranids in general. Together, this seems to have notably weakened Leviathan. The primary reason this policy was dropped is it was also weakening the Imperium in the process by killing billions.
I wasn't arguing the Tyranids weren't intelligent? Only that they have some notable limitations on their behaviour which pushes them to seek high-yield worlds over eating everything.
High yield systems = life, which generally means combat and biomass losses. I am fully aware that the Tyranids seek organic compounds, but life is only a minute proportion of organic material within the galaxy. If efficiency was the main concern, the Hive fleets would avoid systems with life, and just target the lifeless systems to leech the methane and hydrogen present within them. Organic compounds do not need to come from life- they exist all over our own solar system currently for example, as well as the building blocks. Hydrogen is the most abundant element in the Milky Way, with carbon the 4th most abundant. Tyranids have absolutely no need to target worlds with life- they can get all their resources from dead systems easily. Methane fixation is present in our own biosphere, it will definitely be something the Tyranids are capable of. In this manner, the Tyranids could devour the majority of the galaxy before even getting into significant engagements, and their Hive fleets would be correspondingly bigger as a result when they finally steam-roll the sentient species.
I don't assume the Tyranids are dumb. Therefore, the very fact they are not adopting a strategy of eating lifeless worlds, but instead flit from high-risk-high-yield worlds bearing life (the entire purpose of GSCs being to mark out such worlds) suggests there are some severe time limitations on Tyranids, or they would play the slow game.
The piecemeal nature of the fleets arriving further supports this. A force with no time limitations would wait to gather all the fleets together at the edge of the galaxy, then attack as one unified mass. Yet the fleets rush in to attack as soon as they arrive? Considering various weapons and engagements do cause permanent biomass loss, this seems extremely foolhardy for such a vast intelligence if there are no time constraints on gathering biomass.
Regarding those weapons, I was specifically referring to weaponry that either pulls targets into the warp, or can change them at the atomic level. Plasma weaponry, for example, is typically described as harnessing the power of a small sun. Whilst this is hybedbolic, there is no reason to assume that the plasma weaponry does not cause some atomic reactions in targets. Especially in starship-grade weapons, which essentially fire fusion reactors at enemies- any biomass hit by these is going to suffer a degree of nuclear reactions resulting in different elements. Many of which will be of limited use to the Tyranids at best. Each fleet engagement is guaranteed to cause biomass-loss through the devastating weaponry employed.
Gauss may not be sufficient if it only pulls apart the target to the atomic level, true.
Also, there is absolutely no way a Hive fleet can sweep the entiriety of a system to recover biomass blasted into space. The volume that would need to be filtered is mindbogglingly vast even within a certain proximity to a fleet engagement, and some of the fragments will be moving at relativistic speeds. Totally unfeasible. The Tyranids have not shown any desire whatsoever to absorb every last bit of biomass, organic material, and other useful resources available, only the choicest morsels.
The Tyranids are an extremely grave threat, but they are not invincible, and a requirement to constantly engage in high-yield biomass harvesting does seem to be a weakness. Otherwise, there is no way to explain such risky behaviour for such an intelligent organism- the only other alternative is that it is some kind of sport or entertainment.
Or you could explain it by the nids just not giving a gak. This reminds me of the first reaper from mass effect. The cold passive way in which it addresses everyone. "You exist because we allow it. And you will end because we demand it." You talk about tactics like 2 armadas meeting in space. A massive war on a galactic scale. But what if thats not the game the Nids are playing? It's a galactic predator. The individual battles. The armies it faces. They are not armies to it. They are not battles. It's not war.
The nids seem to be dealing with things on a larger scale. Yes. It CAN focus down to our level with things like the swarm lord. But the Hive Mind for all intents and purposes looks like a GALACTIC predator. Not a world eater. Not a system eater. A GALAXY eater.
Thats part of why it's so unknowable.
Stop applying our thoughts and practices to it's tactics and methods and wants. They don't apply.
These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
2019/02/14 05:56:40
Subject: Re:Update on Hive Fleet Tiamet and what they are building.
I hope it never gets expanded, and stays the Tyranid version of the Necron Dyson Sphere which is being completely avoided by the Tyranids, but never completely explained. Used to be all the mysterious side-fluff elements were the best gems of 40k, and they get more boring the more they are expanded upon.
"By this point I'm convinced 100% that every single race in the 40k universe have somehow tapped into the ork ability to just have their tech work because they think it should."
2019/02/14 06:37:11
Subject: Update on Hive Fleet Tiamet and what they are building.
Excommunicatus wrote: So, FWIW, you're both kinda right and you're both kinda wrong. You're also both using quotes to make points that go far beyond what is actually provided for in the said quotes.
I have - very simply - stated that the hive fleets need nurishment/energy to stay alive/keep going. And I have provided quote after quote like the one below. How is that "going far beyond what is actually provided for in the said quotes"?
What Lance845 is doing is going FAR beyond what is stated in his quotes - or rather the lack thereof.
When he claims that the tyranids clearly produce no waste just because it is not mentioned anywhere in the fluff, its an ASSUMPTION - because we dont know.
When he claims that the tyranids have no need of energy because they are probably getting it from the sun - although it is not mentioned anywhere in the fluff - its an ASSUMPTION.... etc..
I am not making any assumptions. I am LITERALLY REFRENCING what is stated in the ******* dexes/BL novels.
It's not enough to provide quote after quote if the quotes don't mean anything. Black Library is nonsense. Stop using it.
The above quote is from a tyranid codex?
Older codexes are equally nonsense (though MILES better then BL) since each edition likes to retcon stuff.
..and the above quote has not beed retconned...
And any quote that begins with "Perhaps" or poses a question or throws out theory after theory about what the nids COULD be doing or why is more nonsense.
The above quote is just a clear statement. Should be as legit as it gets.
For instance, every codex poses the theory that the nids could be running from an even bigger threat. They are not. The Pharos Device is canon. It woke them up from hibernation and drew the attention of the hive mind. They were not running when it went off. They are not running now that they have arrived. The running bit is just conjecture. You could quote it from 20 sources it still wouldn't give it any weight.
The tyranids could still be running from something with the pharos device merly diverting them in our direction.
- but then again, the pharos device is from a BL book/s so it is cleay just noncannon fanfiction? Or does that only count when I quote a BL book?
I didn't say Nids get their energy from the sun. I said the Nids probably have their own internal eco system on the hive ship level. A ecosystem does suffer from entropy. So... like the earth, in order to maintain a constant they need an external source of energy. (as was pointed out by someone else) Radiation from our sun is what does it for us. Background radiation in space COULD explain it for nids. I have been quick to point out where I fill in the blanks and where I get my basic facts to fill in those blanks from.
They would require huge amouns of energy for that to work... and background radiation is named so because..?
Do you even science bro?
There are a FEW constants that are corroborated from multiple sources. Not theories. Things that we know are happening/happen in the fluff. The Nids leaving no evidence but dead husk worlds is one of those things. So.... ? Whats the obvious conclusion to that? 2 + 2 man.
They did produce waste in "the devastation of baal". But that is a BL book ofc..........
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/02/14 13:52:34
Tyranid fanboy.
Been around since 3rd edition.
2019/02/14 13:39:58
Subject: Update on Hive Fleet Tiamet and what they are building.
Lance845 wrote: I already explained how that quote was from a 3rd party.
The Pharos Device is in the 30k HH books too. Which makes them codex level canon. It didn't divert them. It woke them up.
Where is it mentioned that the HH books are anymore cannon than the rest? Do you have anything offical on that?
And yes, it woke them. Nothing is mentioned about their reason for leaving their galaxy. So we still dont know....
You realize the background radiation in space without an atmosphere to protect you is massive right?
We would die without an atmosphere do to the radiation from our native sun. But you are not talking about power directly from the sun, but cosmic background radiation. And that is not going to power jack****.
The nids seem to be dealing with things on a larger scale. Yes. It CAN focus down to our level with things like the swarm lord. But the Hive Mind for all intents and purposes looks like a GALACTIC predator. Not a world eater. Not a system eater. A GALAXY eater.
Thats part of why it's so unknowable.
Stop applying our thoughts and practices to it's tactics and methods and wants. They don't apply.
They have come to devour us all. Thats it.
Last quote under "the destroyer of worlds" in the 8th edition.
"Vast swathes of the galaxy have already been stripped of life, and with every passing year the hive fleets push deeper into regions of populated space. Even as the prey races direct their forces to repel these threats, still more Tyranid fleets approach from the intergalactic void and emerge from their aeons-long slumbers. The thought processes of the Hive Mind are gathering pace as more Tyranids wake and recall the age-old purpose of their kind – feed, grow, survive."
This message was edited 7 times. Last update was at 2019/02/14 14:07:52
Tyranid fanboy.
Been around since 3rd edition.
2019/02/14 14:14:09
Subject: Update on Hive Fleet Tiamet and what they are building.
Lance845 wrote: I already explained how that quote was from a 3rd party.
The Pharos Device is in the 30k HH books too. Which makes them codex level canon. It didn't divert them. It woke them up.
Where is it mentioned that the HH books are anymore cannon than the rest? Do you have anything offical on that?
And yes, it woke them. Nothing is mentioned about their reason for leaving their galaxy. So we still dont know....
Sorry you misunderstood. Not the BLHH books. The FW 30k game books.
You realize the background radiation in space without an atmosphere to protect you is massive right?
We would die without an atmosphere do to the radiation from our native sun. But you are not talking about power directly from the sun, but cosmic background radiation. And that is not going to power jack****.
The background radiation in space is comprised of the energy from ALL suns. Do you think that stars just have thier energy... disappear out in the depths of space? We can SEE the stars so their light is reaching us. That should tell you something about the level of radiation out there.
The nids seem to be dealing with things on a larger scale. Yes. It CAN focus down to our level with things like the swarm lord. But the Hive Mind for all intents and purposes looks like a GALACTIC predator. Not a world eater. Not a system eater. A GALAXY eater.
Thats part of why it's so unknowable.
Stop applying our thoughts and practices to it's tactics and methods and wants. They don't apply.
They have come to devour us all. Thats it.
Last quote under "the destroyer of worlds" in the 8th edition.
"Vast swathes of the galaxy have already been stripped of life, and with every passing year the hive fleets push deeper into regions of populated space. Even as the prey races direct their forces to repel these threats, still more Tyranid fleets approach from the intergalactic void and emerge from their aeons-long slumbers. The thought processes of the Hive Mind are gathering pace as more Tyranids wake and recall the age-old purpose of their kind – feed, grow, survive."
Yup. Galaxy eater.
These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
2019/02/14 15:09:11
Subject: Update on Hive Fleet Tiamet and what they are building.
Sorry you misunderstood. Not the BLHH books. The FW 30k game books.
Yes, and the fact that it allerted the tyranids to our galaxy is only mentioned in "Pharos" which is a BL novel. So clearly it is not cannon...
The background radiation in space is comprised of the energy from ALL suns. Do you think that stars just have thier energy... disappear out in the depths of space? We can SEE the stars so their light is reaching us. That should tell you something about the level of radiation out there.
Are you just trolling at this point? The radiation from suns outside our solarsystem is so minuscule
that it wouldent be able to power jack****.
Know what else is impossible? Going to a realm made of thoughts and dreams and having those thoughts and dreams become sentient and attack real space. Its fantasy.
Lance845 wrote: Stop applying our thoughts and practices to it's tactics and methods and wants. They don't apply.
But that is literally all you have done? You have made theories - using YOUR logic - based on scraps of lore and then presented them as the truth, because it makes sense TO YOU.
Yet by your own statement, your "facts/theories" are false by default. Because logic does not apply in a fanatasy setting? Or is anything possible? You seems to state both as true?
Its just bloody hilarious at this point.
"Vast swathes of the galaxy have already been stripped of life, and with every passing year the hive fleets push deeper into regions of populated space. Even as the prey races direct their forces to repel these threats, still more Tyranid fleets approach from the intergalactic void and emerge from their aeons-long slumbers. The thought processes of the Hive Mind are gathering pace as more Tyranids wake and recall the age-old purpose of their kind – feed, grow, survive."
The nids seem to be dealing with things on a larger scale. Yes. It CAN focus down to our level with things like the swarm lord. But the Hive Mind for all intents and purposes looks like a GALACTIC predator. Not a world eater. Not a system eater. A GALAXY eater.
Thats part of why it's so unknowable.
Codexes: The great devourer, the ultimate predator, eternal hunger, feed, grow survive etc.
Lance845: So unknowable..
This stuff just writes itself at this point.
This message was edited 7 times. Last update was at 2019/02/14 15:15:22
Tyranid fanboy.
Been around since 3rd edition.
2019/02/14 19:03:15
Subject: Update on Hive Fleet Tiamet and what they are building.
NinthMusketeer wrote: I just know Guardsmen never have to take a crap because it isn't mentioned in the fluff.
We know Orks poop poop and Eldar poop crystals, but the rest of the races are a bunch of buttless freaks O.o
Regarding nid fluff and canon/not-canon, I'll be the one to say it; a lot (if not all) of these issues are due to poor and inconsistent writing, both in codexes and otherwise. Anything goes; we're both hyper-adaptable and can be out-adapted by a bunch of galactic newcomers switching weapons (just one example of many, slightly exaggerated to make a point). I find it best to rely on headcanon with this faction, taking the more recent fluff with a big grain of salt (or anything written after 3rd/4th for me).
2019/02/14 19:24:04
Subject: Update on Hive Fleet Tiamet and what they are building.
NinthMusketeer wrote: I just know Guardsmen never have to take a crap because it isn't mentioned in the fluff.
Regarding nid fluff and canon/not-canon, I'll be the one to say it; a lot (if not all) of these issues are due to poor and inconsistent writing, both in codexes and otherwise.
I disagree. There has been many additions to the tyranid lore since 2nd/3rd edition, but we have seen very few inconsistencies and retcons.
Anything goes; we're both hyper-adaptable and can be out-adapted by a bunch of galactic newcomers switching weapons (just one example of many, slightly exaggerated to make a point)
What are you referencing here?
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/02/14 21:23:47
Tyranid fanboy.
Been around since 3rd edition.
2019/02/14 23:32:50
Subject: Update on Hive Fleet Tiamet and what they are building.
NinthMusketeer wrote: I just know Guardsmen never have to take a crap because it isn't mentioned in the fluff.
Regarding nid fluff and canon/not-canon, I'll be the one to say it; a lot (if not all) of these issues are due to poor and inconsistent writing, both in codexes and otherwise.
I disagree. There has been many additions to the tyranid lore since 2nd/3rd edition, but we have seen very few inconsistencies and retcons.
Anything goes; we're both hyper-adaptable and can be out-adapted by a bunch of galactic newcomers switching weapons (just one example of many, slightly exaggerated to make a point)
What are you referencing here?
I was referencing Gorgon's defeat at the hands of the Tau. Rereading though it I see I misremembered the effectiveness of the Tau switching to older weapons/tactics to prevent Gorgon from succesfully adapting. The Tau won because they learned to shoot the big ones, which Gorgon had few of. That is well established as being effective. My bad.
2019/02/15 03:29:22
Subject: Update on Hive Fleet Tiamet and what they are building.
Sorry you misunderstood. Not the BLHH books. The FW 30k game books.
Yes, and the fact that it allerted the tyranids to our galaxy is only mentioned in "Pharos" which is a BL novel. So clearly it is not cannon...
I COULD be wrong, (don't have those pdfs any more maybe somebody with the books can chime in) but I am pretty sure they off handedly mention a threat that would come back to threaten the galaxy much later. Seem to remember that.
The background radiation in space is comprised of the energy from ALL suns. Do you think that stars just have thier energy... disappear out in the depths of space? We can SEE the stars so their light is reaching us. That should tell you something about the level of radiation out there.
Are you just trolling at this point? The radiation from suns outside our solarsystem is so minuscule that it wouldent be able to power jack****.
The two Voyager spacecraft have explored the outer reaches of the heliosphere, passing through the termination shock and the heliosheath. NASA announced in 2013 that Voyager 1 had encountered the heliopause on August 25, 2012, when the spacecraft measured a sudden increase in plasma density of about forty times.[2] In 2018, NASA announced that Voyager 2 had traversed the heliopause on November 5 of that year.[3] Because the heliopause marks the boundary between matter originating from the Sun and matter originating from the rest of the galaxy, spacecraft such as the two Voyagers, which have departed the heliosphere, can be said to have reached interstellar space.
At a distance of about 113 AU, Voyager 1 detected a 'stagnation region' within the heliosheath.[43] In this region, the solar wind slowed to zero,[44][45][46][47] the magnetic field intensity doubled and high-energy electrons from the galaxy increased 100-fold.
The crossing of the heliopause should be signaled by a sharp drop in the temperature of charged particles,[45] a change in the direction of the magnetic field, and an increase in the number of galactic cosmic rays.[9] In May 2012, Voyager 1 detected a rapid increase in such cosmic rays (a 9% increase in a month, following a more gradual increase of 25% from Jan. 2009 to Jan. 2012), suggesting it was approaching the heliopause.
Solar winds within our system are nowhere near as powerful as the radiation outside it. Tyranids travel from system to system. And from galaxy to galaxy. Again, theoretically, the galaxy has similar barriers and the void between galaxies would increase again. Fortunetly the nids wouldn't require a power injection capable of sustaining an Earth sized planet. Just a series of bioships that can enter hibernation states to conserve energy.
Know what else is impossible? Going to a realm made of thoughts and dreams and having those thoughts and dreams become sentient and attack real space. Its fantasy.
Lance845 wrote: Stop applying our thoughts and practices to it's tactics and methods and wants. They don't apply.
But that is literally all you have done? You have made theories - using YOUR logic - based on scraps of lore and then presented them as the truth, because it makes sense TO YOU.
Yet by your own statement, your "facts/theories" are false by default. Because logic does not apply in a fanatasy setting? Or is anything possible? You seems to state both as true?
Its just bloody hilarious at this point.
"Vast swathes of the galaxy have already been stripped of life, and with every passing year the hive fleets push deeper into regions of populated space. Even as the prey races direct their forces to repel these threats, still more Tyranid fleets approach from the intergalactic void and emerge from their aeons-long slumbers. The thought processes of the Hive Mind are gathering pace as more Tyranids wake and recall the age-old purpose of their kind – feed, grow, survive."
The nids seem to be dealing with things on a larger scale. Yes. It CAN focus down to our level with things like the swarm lord. But the Hive Mind for all intents and purposes looks like a GALACTIC predator. Not a world eater. Not a system eater. A GALAXY eater.
Thats part of why it's so unknowable.
Codexes: The great devourer, the ultimate predator, eternal hunger, feed, grow survive etc.
Lance845: So unknowable..
This stuff just writes itself at this point.
The great devourer, the ultimate predator, eternal hunger, feed grow survive... all names other races give the tyranids. All motivations other races attribute to the tyranids. We have no lore that says what the tyranids call themselves. What it (the hive mind) thinks it's doing. THATS is why it's lovecradtian unknowable. In fact the lore often mentions how we don't really know. How we CAN'T know. How the nids are so far beyond our scope of understanding. Even your little conversation between space marines says as much.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/02/15 03:31:32
These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
2019/02/15 08:57:06
Subject: Update on Hive Fleet Tiamet and what they are building.
I COULD be wrong, (don't have those pdfs any more maybe somebody with the books can chime in) but I am pretty sure they off handedly mention a threat that would come back to threaten the galaxy much later. Seem to remember that.
Could be? You ARE wrong.
Solar winds within our system are nowhere near as powerful as the radiation outside it. Tyranids travel from system to system. And from galaxy to galaxy. Again, theoretically, the galaxy has similar barriers and the void between galaxies would increase again. Fortunetly the nids wouldn't require a power injection capable of sustaining an Earth sized planet. Just a series of bioships that can enter hibernation states to conserve energy.
Ok, let me break this down to you so you can understand it. If you were to travel to the closet star outside our solar system - Proxima Centauri - traveling in the ISS, you would need a solarpanel the size of CALIFORNIA just to keep the station running...
The great devourer, the ultimate predator, eternal hunger, feed grow survive... all names other races give the tyranids. All motivations other races attribute to the tyranids. We have no lore that says what the tyranids call themselves. What it (the hive mind) thinks it's doing. THATS is why it's lovecradtian unknowable. In fact the lore often mentions how we don't really know. How we CAN'T know. How the nids are so far beyond our scope of understanding. Even your little conversation between space marines says as much.
Both mephistion and tigurius have been in contact with the hive mind, and all they felt was an undending hunger..
And ofc, we do have fluff on the hive minds thoughts and feelings, but that is not fluff to you, sadly....
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/02/15 08:58:56
Tyranid fanboy.
Been around since 3rd edition.
2019/02/15 14:15:23
Subject: Update on Hive Fleet Tiamet and what they are building.
I COULD be wrong, (don't have those pdfs any more maybe somebody with the books can chime in) but I am pretty sure they off handedly mention a threat that would come back to threaten the galaxy much later. Seem to remember that.
Could be? You ARE wrong.
Oh so you have the books? I would love a refresher. Mind quoting it to me? I realize you think I am being confrontational and this could be taken as sarcastic but I am being sincere.
Solar winds within our system are nowhere near as powerful as the radiation outside it. Tyranids travel from system to system. And from galaxy to galaxy. Again, theoretically, the galaxy has similar barriers and the void between galaxies would increase again. Fortunately the nids wouldn't require a power injection capable of sustaining an Earth sized planet. Just a series of bioships that can enter hibernation states to conserve energy.
Ok, let me break this down to you so you can understand it. If you were to travel to the closet star outside our solar system - Proxima Centauri - traveling in the ISS, you would need a solarpanel the size of CALIFORNIA just to keep the station running...
Jesus. Do you understand how solar panels work? Are you aware that they do not use the entire spectrum of light? Or that they ONLY use the wavelengths of visible light? (we can see less than half the spectrum btw) For instance, if you were to set up a solar panel in front of an x ray machine do you know how much power would be generated from that radiation? The answer is none. The amount of radiation in space and the size of the solar panel the international space station would need are 2 different things that have different factors contributing to them.
For all your simplistically trying to explain science to me you sure do seem to have a gak grasp of the various technologies and phenomena being discussed.
The great devourer, the ultimate predator, eternal hunger, feed grow survive... all names other races give the tyranids. All motivations other races attribute to the tyranids. We have no lore that says what the tyranids call themselves. What it (the hive mind) thinks it's doing. THATS is why it's lovecradtian unknowable. In fact the lore often mentions how we don't really know. How we CAN'T know. How the nids are so far beyond our scope of understanding. Even your little conversation between space marines says as much.
Both mephistion and tigurius have been in contact with the hive mind, and all they felt was an undending hunger..
And ofc, we do have fluff on the hive minds thoughts and feelings, but that is not fluff to you, sadly....
Correct. Not canon. Fluff wise 1 person (an ultramarine, of course, and something that contributed heavily to the ultrmarines being the super duper mary sues of all 40k) was able to touch the edges of the hive mind and survive and he barely got the impression of the fact that it was a hive mind. Everyone else goes mad and/or dies in the attempt. And most weaker psykers go mad and/or die just from the shadow before the tyranids even reach the planet.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2019/02/15 19:55:59
These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
2019/02/15 14:52:32
Subject: Update on Hive Fleet Tiamet and what they are building.
Oh so you have the books? I would love a refresher. Mind quoting it to me? I realize you think I am being confrontational and this could be taken as sarcastic but I am being sincere.
I have the books, yes. If it is one of the volumes I have as pdf's, I can take a look now. Otherwise you will have to wait until I get home to my books.
Which volume do you want me to look up?
Jesus. Do you understand how solar panels work? Are you aware that they do not use the entire spectrum of light? Or that they ONLY use the wavelengths of visible light? (we can see less than half the spectrum btw) For instance, if you were to set up a solar panel in front of an x ray machine do you know how much power would be generated from that radiation? The answer is none. The amount of radiation in space and the size of the solar panel the international space station would need are 2 different things that have different factors contributing to them.
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Jesus ******* christ. Are you being ******* serious? Are you 5 years old? The distance between stars are unimaginable vast, making the VOLUME utterly uncomprehensible . So yes, the stars are sending all kinds of radiation into the void, but do to the volume of space, it equates to next to nothing.
You are pretty much stating that pouring a can of coke into the ocean, turns it into a new source of coke. Jesus christ.
Correct. Not canon. Fluff wise 1 person (an ultramarine, of course) was able to touch the edges of the hive mind and survive and he barely got the impression of the fact that it was a hive mind. Everyone else goes mad and/or dies in the attempt. And most weaker psykers go mad and/or die just from the shadow before the tyranids even reach the planet.
Both mephiston and tigurius have been in contact with the hive mind......
This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2019/02/15 16:15:15
Tyranid fanboy.
Been around since 3rd edition.
2019/02/15 19:41:28
Subject: Update on Hive Fleet Tiamet and what they are building.
You might want to just drop it. I think Lance's lack of interest in logical process is well established and getting into profanity is just going to make you look bad no matter how clear the argument may be.
So, anyway, my money is on the hive fleet transforming into a giant , five-headed space dragon, and sending out the GSCs to found a religion and offer it blood and souls in sacrifice.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/02/15 22:21:18
Efficiency is the highest virtue.
2019/02/15 22:21:54
Subject: Update on Hive Fleet Tiamet and what they are building.
Voss wrote: So, anyway, my money is on the hive transforming into a giant , five-headed space dragon, and sending out the GSCs to found a religion and offer it blood and souls in sacrifice.
Ha! It would be great to see that!
Who knows that might be what the hive mind is aiming for.
2019/02/16 13:35:05
Subject: Update on Hive Fleet Tiamet and what they are building.
NinthMusketeer wrote: You might want to just drop it. I think Lance's lack of interest in logical process is well established and getting into profanity is just going to make you look bad no matter how clear the argument may be.
Point noted.
Tyranid fanboy.
Been around since 3rd edition.
2019/02/16 15:04:38
Subject: Update on Hive Fleet Tiamet and what they are building.
The two Voyager spacecraft have explored the outer reaches of the heliosphere, passing through the termination shock and the heliosheath. NASA announced in 2013 that Voyager 1 had encountered the heliopause on August 25, 2012, when the spacecraft measured a sudden increase in plasma density of about forty times.[2] In 2018, NASA announced that Voyager 2 had traversed the heliopause on November 5 of that year.[3] Because the heliopause marks the boundary between matter originating from the Sun and matter originating from the rest of the galaxy, spacecraft such as the two Voyagers, which have departed the heliosphere, can be said to have reached interstellar space.
At a distance of about 113 AU, Voyager 1 detected a 'stagnation region' within the heliosheath.[43] In this region, the solar wind slowed to zero,[44][45][46][47] the magnetic field intensity doubled and high-energy electrons from the galaxy increased 100-fold.
The crossing of the heliopause should be signaled by a sharp drop in the temperature of charged particles,[45] a change in the direction of the magnetic field, and an increase in the number of galactic cosmic rays.[9] In May 2012, Voyager 1 detected a rapid increase in such cosmic rays (a 9% increase in a month, following a more gradual increase of 25% from Jan. 2009 to Jan. 2012), suggesting it was approaching the heliopause.
Solar winds within our system are nowhere near as powerful as the radiation outside it. Tyranids travel from system to system. And from galaxy to galaxy. Again, theoretically, the galaxy has similar barriers and the void between galaxies would increase again. Fortunetly the nids wouldn't require a power injection capable of sustaining an Earth sized planet. Just a series of bioships that can enter hibernation states to conserve energy.
You are aware that 40 (or even 100) times nearly zero is still zero?
The chart you linked actually illustrates it best, you know what the X axis is? Teilchen means 'particles'. Do you know how ridiculously tiny amount 40 particles per second is? A single electron weights 10^−31 kg. Multiply it by 100 and you still have zero dot twenty nine more zeros before getting to actual weight of the "powerful" shock...
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