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timetowaste85 wrote: Ouch. That’s a bunch of BS. Wonder why they did it when it’s one of the few weapon teams to actually HAVE a plastic model. Very strange.
Its locked into the isle of blood kit so while its plastic its pretty limited until they cut new tools.
I dont think that bodes well for a weapons team kit or even globadiers in plastic any time soon.
Skaven drew a short straw and I'd wager are two years or more off a big model update release. Which isn't bad many of the metals still look good and they are a very varied and functional army with a nice amount of variety.
In the end we can hope for a plastic weapons team; updated sculpts all round and the like. But right now its gone becaus GW doesnt' make it any more and getting hold of unpainted plastics from Island of Blood is going to get harder and harder and more and more expensive.
So the current run of Made to Order is a bunch of old Skaven minis. The WHC article says their rules are in Warhammer Legends: Skaven. Where do I find that?
Edit: Never mind. I found it. They really should have included a link. I had to go through the webstore to find the PDF.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/03 08:24:39
I try to avoid legends as much as possible.
It can simply vanish at any point or become invalid without warning.
Been burned enough times by my armies suddenly vanishing from existence lol.
As a side note, I wanted to build a fluffy army based on clan moulder.
While fluffy, I've been trying to make it useable and not an instant loss.
Unit wise though it's kind of locked.
Master moulder - essential, may be worth doubling up on.
Pack masters - they help out alot, but worth running min sized or bulking up?
Rat ogres - generally the core of it all, they do rat ogre stuff.
Giant rats - typical cheap nasty horde unit, would make an ok tarpit until something heavier gets there.
Rat swarms - I'd say has to be maxed to make the best use, but points heavy.
Abomination - the biggest hitter possible, definitely taking a pair.
Stormfiends - about the best damage output possible and luckily they have the moulder key word aswell as skryre.
Wolf rats - kinda torn here, they are expensive for what they do but they are ok fast chaff.
Brood horror - FW screwed people as only the mounted one is available .... for £49 and then you have to chop off the saddle etc. (Maybe convert a pack master rider?)
Jackal I think wolfrats are worth it, esp in a moulder only list. Their main weakness as I see it is their really low bravery score of 5. They really want to be right into combat as soon as possible; since then their bravery check ignore comes into play and they are safe. Their worst would be against any ranged heavy army that could shoot them enough to break moral and run.
The Brood horror is annoying - I asked and FW confirmed the one without saddle is long gone. I agree that its a case of getting hold of one and hacking at the saddle and then converting something to go onto it - pipes and containers and warpstone bits and stuff and you can easily have the beasty looking good.
Overread wrote: Jackal I think wolfrats are worth it, esp in a moulder only list. Their main weakness as I see it is their really low bravery score of 5. They really want to be right into combat as soon as possible; since then their bravery check ignore comes into play and they are safe. Their worst would be against any ranged heavy army that could shoot them enough to break moral and run.
The Brood horror is annoying - I asked and FW confirmed the one without saddle is long gone. I agree that its a case of getting hold of one and hacking at the saddle and then converting something to go onto it - pipes and containers and warpstone bits and stuff and you can easily have the beasty looking good.
To be fair, we have the double bravery bubble which can help alot.
I may give them a go.
Will be converting mine though.
Ray ogre parts and fenrisian wolves.
Funnily enough I've checked this too.
Ironically the 2 kits barely shared any parts atall.
Really not keen on the armoured look either.
I'll have a look at the armoured one but I see this being conversion time instead.
I'll be interested to see your conversions and how they turn out!
The only other weak point of moulder heavy is ratswarms- they are decent unit in concept but darn expensive as its £5 for each model! Unless you convert them with some small rat models.
Overread wrote: I'll be interested to see your conversions and how they turn out!
The only other weak point of moulder heavy is ratswarms- they are decent unit in concept but darn expensive as its £5 for each model! Unless you convert them with some small rat models.
Look at the bigger picture though.
£40 gets you a max sized unit that costs a good chunk of points and has a unit.
Your also not likely to want 2 units due to points constraints.
While it's not the cheapest, there are far more priced units out there lol. (Or am I just getting soft with age on GW pricing?)
Overread wrote: Oh I think we are all getting softer with GW pricing But yes you don't want too many rat swarms otherwise there's no bite to the army.
Of my gaming group, 5/11 play stormcasts and 4 of them rock celestant prime.
I need a big damn tarpit to keep him away from my master moulder.
Also debating unit sizes for ogres.
Pairs make a nice distraction, but kind of waste the more more beasts rule, especially when buffed to procc on a 4+
Tempted to actually run 4-6's with maybe 1 or 2 pairs for flank protection or to keep unwanted units away from the abominations.
And yea, I see the swarm issue.
Just a shame the points are that heavy because you need a maxed out unit.
I think if ogres are going to be the powerhouse of the army then its better to go with more in a single unit. Whilst it cuts down on mobility it increases both survivability and damage done once they reach close combat. IT also gives them a viable ranged attack whilst charging in. One ranged attack from a pair is nothing; but three from a unit of 6 can do something and be a threat
So, moulder. They have a good amount going for them actually.
Going in book order, command traits first. If going with a master moulder for the general I think the go-to is verminous valor to keep him alive while making him a platform for rabid crown (below). If going with a masterclan general getting one of the two extra CP options is great since more-more beasts has strong competition with spending them on inspiring presence (and charge re-rolls). Screaming bell is a nice choice here but I think the warpseer wins out for his larger battleshock immunity buff, stronger magical support, all around durability, and CP generation.
Rabid Crown. Hot dam is this a great artifact. Re-roll all wounds for pack units wholly in 13" is a huge buff, but it will make the 5-wound hero a massive target and thus the verminous valor if he is the general. The rest I see as lackluster and if additionals are gained I would look towards malign sorcery artifacts or a masterclan one (all good, though the gnawshard will probably not be as useful and the robes could be redundant).
The battalion. Fluffy and I'd say its worth its points because a pure moulder army will have the component units anyways. Redundant with the command trait, but as mentioned above I do not see that command trait as ideal.
Stormfiends:
Spoiler:
NinthMusketeer wrote: So I got around to running the numbers on Stormfiend weapons. Short version; don't take windlaunchers, everything else is viable.
To start with windlaunchers, the average damage is somewhat poor. 1.5 average wounds, or 2 if targeting a unit of ten or more (bumping up to 2.25/3 if a spark is used). Having it hit better against large units does not do much because when looking for an anti-horde weapon the warpfire is better by far. Speaking of warpfire, it is now anti-horde instead of anti-elite but IMO it got better. Certainly it is incredibly strong. The only reason I would see to take windlaunchers is deliberately weakening a list (which to be clear, is a good reason).
Ratling cannons do not have high numbers either; 3.5 wounds average but only at rend -1, so 2.33 against a 4+ or 2.91 against 5+. However with a spark to add to the damage characteristic those numbers double (4.66/5.82) and perhaps more importantly the other weapon for that 'slot' is a melee one.
Speaking of, warp grinders. Obviously if you want to use their reserve capability you'll need them, though personally I wouldn't due to its unreliability coupled with gnawholes being available. However they are worth taking just for melee potential since the damage output is good.
As for the melee-only slot both are good; the doom flayers have a higher average on the charge, the shock gauntlets have higher damage overall (but are very inconsistent).
Packmasters: Cheap source of crack the whip with a larger coverage area (while they still have more than 1 model) but generally inferior to just taking another master moulder, save the battalion.
Master Moulder: A really good hero for the cost. Crack the whip is obviously essential for buffing moulder units, a nice support heal, a nifty command ability, and a decent combat profile (always go lash; same average damage but more range). I would take as many as you have HPAs/Brood Horrors to buff with prized creations.
Hell Pit Abomination: Was not bad before, got a lot better with the new warscroll and prized creations. Just a fantastic monster that punches (literally) well above his point cost.
Rat Ogors: Offensive monstrous infantry, very buffable thanks to being Pack. 2-man units fill battleline slots while 4-6 man units get work done. Unfortunately they cost a lot of points for what they do so really need to have crack the whip to be competent and only with both that and rabid crown will they really shine. They can come back with more-more beasts which if it triggers obviously makes them very points-efficient (IF it triggers...). I wish you luck in getting the plastics from the OOP starter set, some metals, and/or converting the one from the screaming bell.
Rat Swarms: Cool support unit, low numbers but still pesky as an objective camper/flank guard. It is a pack unit so can be used in combat with proper buffs. Just put it between other units to make it more difficult to single out and kill off.
Giant Rats: The moulder clanrat equivalent. Buffable, can be brought back with more-more beasts, and benefits from the generic +1 to hit for 20+ models and +1 to wound for 30+ models. A lot of damage output when at full size and buffed (2+ to hit, 4+ to wound, and 3" melee range!) and keeps most of its damage output even when outside crack the whip range. Horrid bravery even with strength in numbers though, keep some battleshock immunity around.
Wolf Rats: Fast and with a built-in source of battleshock immunity means they can be used as outflankers and objective snaggers, something the army lacks otherwise. Maybe not essential but a useful tool to have around.
Brood Horror: Solid performance, but I feel it is out competed by how great the HPA is.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/03/06 17:17:51
AngryMedic wrote: I've been thinking of starting a clan skrye army for some time. How do they look with the new battletome? I'd love to make a Stormfiend heavy army
You can. they become battleline if skyre hero is general. as well they have become cheaper.
Went through some of the book and im thinking skyre warlock bombardier with a bunch of throw away rattling guns. get that +1 to damage on 3 of them, use the command trait that buffs a units shooting attack, throw in a more more power, then more more more warp lead for hopefully a very large amount of -1 rend 2 damage attacks.
you could do it with the stormfiends too but 3d6 vs 2d6 x 2 for max 24 shots and a dead rat is just too funny to me.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/06 21:19:36
AngryMedic wrote: I've been thinking of starting a clan skrye army for some time. How do they look with the new battletome? I'd love to make a Stormfiend heavy army
Well if you are running skryre stormfiend-heavy is the way to do it so you're in luck!
AngryMedic wrote: I've been thinking of starting a clan skrye army for some time. How do they look with the new battletome? I'd love to make a Stormfiend heavy army
You can. they become battleline if skyre hero is general. as well they have become cheaper.
Just to confirm - if you want to use stormfiends as battleline you have to have all other units in the army (excluding allies) as Clan Skyre in their keywords; whilst any leader units can be Clan Skyre and/or Masterclan. You can't have any other clan units in the army such s clan rats, rat ogres etc....
All this does is allow you to take the stormfiends (and Skyre Acolytes) as battleline troops. Same as all the other clan specific battleline models.
The equipment lists at the start of the matched play section for the army are broken into clans, but you don't have to be running a Clan Skyre to use the Clan Skyre list; you just use whichever list fits the leader/hero you are equipping. So in an open Skaventide list (ergo no clan focus) you can take the artifacts from the Clan Pestilens for your Plaguelord and artifacts from the Clan Skyre for your Warlock Engineer
Who decided the Warpseer's points cost? Holy hell an Ethereal one is stupid good.
BlaxicanX wrote: A young business man named Tom Kirby, who was a pupil of mine until he turned greedy, helped the capitalists hunt down and destroy the wargamers. He betrayed and murdered Games Workshop.
BlaxicanX wrote: A young business man named Tom Kirby, who was a pupil of mine until he turned greedy, helped the capitalists hunt down and destroy the wargamers. He betrayed and murdered Games Workshop.
Got some games in last night with my Skaven force, based off the Carrion Empire set. A couple quick Path to Glory matches against Ironjawz, and a 1250pt match against Tzeentch Disciples.
First PTG game resulted in my loss, when my Bombadier sniffed far too much bad warp dust and died, with his living or death being the objective. Can't do much about rolling a pair of 1s in a row for your Warpspark Tokens, besides not using them. In that game, I discovered that Doomwheels are hella strong on even average dice rolls. Gives the good feelies to roast units off the board.
Second match, I was able to shoot Ironjaw Boar Riders off the table between Doomwheel and Ratling Cannon Stormfiend shots. And although my Bombadier once again murdered himself, this time attempting to overcharge Warp Lightning and failing the initial cast AND the reroll, I still won when my Doomwheel broke the sound barrier and claimed a third objective marker resulting in the game to end.
At 1250, against the Chickens of Tzeentch, the other player made a rather large tactical blunder that I'd expect other players to not make. Hot Dice on my side made the error even worse. When prompted with the choice of taking first turn for himself, or forcing it on me, he chose it for himself, and moved his 2 Lords of Change in to Deep-frying range.
WLC and Gatling Fiend worked together to take down one, with the WLC getting overcharged, rolling a 3 for power, and doing 10 damage to the LoC, and only 1 mortal wound to itself. Gatling Fiend finishes the job.
Then, a Doomwheel with More-More Warp Power spell, More-More Warpbolts self buff, and a Token for +1 to it's damage rolls pushed out 16 damage at range.
Luck and errors aligned to the perfect first turn.
I've yet to experience devastating poor luck that can result from the nature of Skryre. I expect to feel it soon enough, it'll just eventually happen.
I'm hoping to try out more forces soon enough, but I don't think ill ever be satisfied running a wholly-skryre force, the lack of bodies I wouldn't be able to feel good about.
Still debating stormfiend loadout before I add them to my moulder list.
Just bugs me that 1 is shooting options only, 1 is combat only and the 3rd is a mix.
I'd rather have all shooting or all combat.
Currently leaning towards warpfire, ratling gun and shock gauntlets though, seems like the higher damage output build.
They will be doing a fair bit of heavy lifting so I need to make use of them.
Finally finished converting my throt model (now just a master moulder) and had 3 more rat ogre sets arrive, so a week or 2 and the moulder list should be ready to hit the table.
@Thadin- I got to see it first hand today.
Some poor lad wad running a fairly weapon team heavy skryre list in q pickup game.
In 2 turns 3 of his weapon teams had killed themselves and his warlock crowned it all by toasting himself the next turn.
While it's amusing to watch, I'd hate to lose 340 points in just under 3 turns to poor dice lol.
That's how I've built my first set of Stormfiends exactly, and how I'll likely build the second the same. I haven't got to see the Warpfire under ideal conditions, having only played it vs Ironjaws and Tzeentch with Tzaangors, so can't comment on it. But the Ratling Cannon and Shock Gauntlets put out solid damage.
I like the Shock Gauntlet guy as Ablative wounds to eat things like More-More Warp Power and Vigordust Injectors, though I will likely change that up against certain armies, and instead dump the damage on a Warpfire Thrower fiend. Its just not good enough if there aren't hordes to eat compared to the gauntlet damage.
auticus wrote: They did make it harder to min/max with stormfiends yes. For whatever thats worth. Interesting design choice though they made.
I understand it was for balance and I think it was needed to be fair.
Imagine what 3x warpfire would do to horde armies.
Now, balance is one thing and I don't mind the 1 per 3, it's a good idea.
It's just how they did it that I don't like.
Why not just say each weapon option is 1 per 3 and be done with it?
Alot less text needed and it prevents wonky units (I just hate mixing roles)
Ninth - thanks bud, just had a run through that now.
I think I'll keep with what I stated earlier.
The shocks are a gamble but I'm happy with that.
Warpfire I think is a no brainer here.
Ratling guns are just For my love of all things shooty.
Clubbing blows can make up damage as they close in.
Thadin - to me it just seems like the best choices.
The wind launchers don't even seem good on paper sadly, let alone in game.
Just need some punch in the moulder army.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/07 19:55:19
Winds launchers are really the only dud weapon option, both for being bad themselves and competing with the best one. Everything else is either good or has its place.
Imagine what 3x warpfire would do to horde armies.
One of our resident powergamers did exactly that kind of thing. Like 9 or 12 warpfire stormfiends popping up and saying hi and melting the opposing army off the table.
It caused a lot of people to say "sorry AOS you're not my thing" and abandon ship lol.
Imagine what 3x warpfire would do to horde armies.
One of our resident powergamers did exactly that kind of thing. Like 9 or 12 warpfire stormfiends popping up and saying hi and melting the opposing army off the table.
It caused a lot of people to say "sorry AOS you're not my thing" and abandon ship lol.
I'll be honest, I used to run alot of pure warpfire fiends in goutfire scorch, but I did that purely for the competitive tournaments.
Wouldn't dream of doing it in a friendly or pickup game.
That's why I'm now hacking stormfiends apart and swapping them about lol.
But yes you don't want too many rat swarms otherwise there's no bite to the army.
Skaven - 4500
OBR - 4250
- 6800
- 4250
- 2750