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The BSF expansions are quite sparse in their content given their cost. The value prospect of each one is lacking compared to other releases. One big mini for AUD$100? 2 smaller ones for what will undoubtedly be the same cost?
(NB: This would be the point where Ibris would chime in and sa"Nu-uh!!! The Ambull one also has those tiny grubs! So it's three minis! I WIN!!!!" or something)
Especially compared to the actual Quest expansions of old, that contained, y'know, proper expansions - new quests, tiles, miniatures, and cards of various types.
There are other arguments regarding the quality of the miniatures (I have no qualms here), and whether it represents a future release of a Lost & The Damned/Traitor Guard army (I have no real dog in that fight) but I think it's pretty clear that boiling down the myriad of legitimate concerns to just "pissing and moaning" is not only really insulting Starfarer but also, you'know, just kinda dumb.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/13 01:28:54
My theory is that these Stormvaults were actually referenced in the Flesh Eater Court Battletome. As Hollowmourne started off as a army of knights seeking out hidden vaults that contained dangerous magical artifacts and were hidden by an “Emperor”.
The BSF expansions are quite sparse in their content given their cost. The value prospect of each one is lacking compared to other releases. One big mini for AUD$100? 2 smaller ones for what will undoubtedly be the same cost?
(NB: This would be the point where Ibris would chime in and sa"Nu-uh!!! The Ambull one also has those tiny grubs! So it's three minis! I WIN!!!!" or something)
Especially compared to the actual Quest expansions of old, that contained, y'know, proper expansions - new quests, tiles, miniatures, and cards of various types.
There are other arguments regarding the quality of the miniatures (I have no qualms here), and whether it represents a future release of a Lost & The Damned/Traitor Guard army (I have no real dog in that fight) but I think it's pretty clear that boiling down the myriad of legitimate concerns to just "pissing and moaning" is not only really insulting Starfarer but also, you'know, just kinda dumb.
Let's compare the Traitor Command, assuming it's the same cost as the Ambull, $60USD.
Most Ogre/Ogyrn single figure models have been around $25. Most non-SM character models have been around $25. So 2 of those models plus the rules, cards, etc. For $60 seems fairly consistent with GW's pricing. Whether than is worth it is up to everyone to decide for themself.
However, price has yet to be announced, most of the complaints so far haven't been about price - which again, we don't know yet - but about a chaos commissar being dumb or, a chaos ogryn being uninspired, etc.
However, when I called that out not one person actually addressed that. The anti-GW brigade immediately jumped in and started parroting the pricing argument, which is where it always devolves to when you don't have any other actual argument - and yet again, pricing hasn't been revealed - and if you want to argue that previous pricing is likely a likely predictor of future pricing, I would say "no gak" so quit the outrage act with each new release and either accept this company's product is expensive or find a more affordable hobby for your budget. You don't see people going on BMW forums complaining about the cost of their products... or maybe you do, I wouldn't actually know, but those people would be as dumb as the ones who haven't yet accepted the fact that GW is and will continue to be and overpriced luxury item, and it exists, much like other luxury items, because their is a significant enough demand to support that makret.
What is it you expect exactly? For prices to drop drastically, despite record profits? For quality releases to be discounted because you want to pay less? How many years has this continued to be the case and you continue to expect different results? I think there's a definition for that...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/13 02:06:03
You can never beat your first time. The second generation is shinier, stronger, faster and superior in every regard save one, and it's an unfair criticism to level, but it simply can't be as original. - Andy Chambers, on the evolution of Games Workshop games
Tohe fair, alot of the boxed under Roundtree have effectively been the needed super deals in getting alot of value for buck, and I think alot of people (myself included) expected to see that trend continue.
However, price has yet to be announced, most of the complaints so far haven't been about price - which again, we don't know yet - but about a chaos commissar being dumb or, a chaos ogryn being uninspired, etc.
However, when I called that out not one person actually addressed that. The anti-GW brigade immediately jumped in and started parroting the pricing argument, which is where it always devolves to when you don't have any other actual argument - and yet again, pricing hasn't been revealed - and if you want to argue that previous pricing is likely a likely predictor of future pricing, I would say "no gak" so quit the outrage act with each new release and either accept this company's product is expensive or find a more affordable hobby for your budget. You don't see people going on BMW forums complaining about the cost of their products... or maybe you do, I wouldn't actually know, but those people would be as dumb as the ones who haven't yet accepted the fact that GW is and will continue to be and overpriced luxury item, and it exists, much like other luxury items, because their is a significant enough demand to support that makret.
What is it you expect exactly? For prices to drop drastically, despite record profits? For quality releases to be discounted because you want to pay less? How many years has this continued to be the case and you continue to expect different results? I think there's a definition for that...
I think the perceived value for money of the existing BF expansion - the Ambull - just isn't there. It retails in the US for $60, yet the Necromunda Ambots are only $40 - and they look like you're getting so much more bang for your buck than you do in the Ambull expansion. I was super excited about the Ambull when I saw it previewed but my enthusiasm was completely killed by the pricing and my perception of the value for money - or rather, total lack thereof. It doesn't help that it costs $78 Canadian with sales tax from my local, yet I could get it shipped to my mother's place in the UK for $30 less, but that's really secondary when I'm comparing two broadly similar releases, advertised at the same time, which seem to offer substantially different value propositions.
I think you're misunderstanding the expectations of the people who are expecting to be disappointed; the insanity is that two Ambots cost 2/3 the price of one Ambull and some bits of paper. Why would this release be any less consistently inconsistent?
(For the record I have no issue with the traitor commissar and I think the Ogryn looks pretty good).
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/03/13 02:24:21
Carlovonsexron wrote: Tohe fair, alot of the boxed under Roundtree have effectively been the needed super deals in getting alot of value for buck, and I think alot of people (myself included) expected to see that trend continue.
The Super Deals come on the core sets, not the optional expansions - that's the model. They lure you in on the shiny box set, and if you're into that product enough, you'll buy the optional add on at the premium price.
However, price has yet to be announced, most of the complaints so far haven't been about price - which again, we don't know yet - but about a chaos commissar being dumb or, a chaos ogryn being uninspired, etc.
However, when I called that out not one person actually addressed that. The anti-GW brigade immediately jumped in and started parroting the pricing argument, which is where it always devolves to when you don't have any other actual argument - and yet again, pricing hasn't been revealed - and if you want to argue that previous pricing is likely a likely predictor of future pricing, I would say "no gak" so quit the outrage act with each new release and either accept this company's product is expensive or find a more affordable hobby for your budget. You don't see people going on BMW forums complaining about the cost of their products... or maybe you do, I wouldn't actually know, but those people would be as dumb as the ones who haven't yet accepted the fact that GW is and will continue to be and overpriced luxury item, and it exists, much like other luxury items, because their is a significant enough demand to support that makret.
What is it you expect exactly? For prices to drop drastically, despite record profits? For quality releases to be discounted because you want to pay less? How many years has this continued to be the case and you continue to expect different results? I think there's a definition for that...
I think the perceived value for money of the existing BF expansion - the Ambull - just isn't there. It retails in the US for $60, yet the Necromunda Ambots are only $40 - and they look like you're getting so much more bang for your buck than you do in the Ambull expansion. I was super excited about the Ambull when I saw it previewed but my enthusiasm was completely killed by the pricing and my perception of the value for money - or rather, total lack thereof. It doesn't help that it costs $78 Canadian with sales tax from my local, yet I could get it shipped to my mother's place in the UK for $30 less, but that's really secondary when I'm comparing two broadly similar releases, advertised at the same time, which seem to offer substantially different value propositions.
I think you're misunderstanding the expectations of the people who are expecting to be disappointed; the insanity is that two Ambots cost 2/3 the price of one Ambull and some bits of paper. Why would this release be any less consistently inconsistent?
(For the record I have no issue with the traitor commissar and I think the Ogryn looks pretty good).
Well, for one, you're comparing products from 2 separate games. Necromunda is done by Specialist Games Studios at Forgeworld, despite the plastic releases they get. Blackstone Fortress is a main GW release.
That said, I don't think the Ambull is worth the price. Even at $50 from online retailers it's a stretch for me. But the market dictates what is acceptable. If products just aren't selling at the pics they list them for they will adjust the prices. I think we'll know if the Ambull release was successful if the Traitor Command is also $60. I also expect the Imperial models teased for Combat Arena to be higher than $60, probably $75 or $85 when they're released for BSF. We'll see prices adjusted depending on what the market will allow though. You don't have to like the prices, and this statement isn't directed at you, but the constant clutching of pearls with each new GW release is tiresome.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/13 02:43:48
You can never beat your first time. The second generation is shinier, stronger, faster and superior in every regard save one, and it's an unfair criticism to level, but it simply can't be as original. - Andy Chambers, on the evolution of Games Workshop games
That said, I don't think the Ambull is worth the price. Even at $50 from online retailers it's a stretch for me. But the market dictates what is acceptable. If products just aren't selling at the pics they list them for they will adjust the prices. I think we'll know if the Ambull release was successful if the Traitor Command is also $60.
This is a great point, but I fear that GW's regional pricing model will complicate their view of successful sales and potentially allow the perpetuation of overpriced expansions. The Ambull is £35 (including VAT), and discounters can sell at just over 20% off over there, so you can easily find it for £28 all-in ($36.65). In the US you're limited to 15% discount as a rule, and then you may need to add sales tax on top, so $51+tax. It could sell terribly in the States but sell great in the UK, so the next expansion will end up priced in line with this.
H.B.M.C. wrote: (NB: This would be the point where Ibris would chime in and sa"Nu-uh!!! The Ambull one also has those tiny grubs! So it's three minis! I WIN!!!!" or something)
You know, if spent like, a tenth of the effort you put into post-wrong sarcasm into perhaps not being wrong in the first place this board wouldn't even need GW rumors as you'd be able to provide detailed, accurate list on demand up to like 2100 or so.
Also, speaking of not being wrong, how about attempting to learn actual spelling of real, just five letter word? It can't be too difficult, even third grade kids manage to do it. Or will we see more really forced, PA quips instead, perhaps "I meant to do that" old excuse?
Especially compared to the actual Quest expansions of old, that contained, y'know, proper expansions - new quests, tiles, miniatures, and cards of various types.
You mean stuff like this?
- A 16-page Dreaded Ambull Booklet full of rules and background information for the expansion.
- 18 Discovery Cards
- 10 Exporation Cards
- 3 Encounter Cards
- 3 Hostile Reference Cards
- A single Lair of the Beast envelope
- A double-sided punchboard full of useful tokens and markers
- A Lair of the Beast sheet that includes board set up details, rules, an event table and victory conditions.
This is Warcry – a new skirmish game from the makers of Kill Team and Warhammer Underworlds that allows you to experience the visceral carnage of battle in the Mortal Realms in a whole new way.
This is more than just a skirmish version of Warhammer Age of Sigmar – it’s hyper-kinetic, it’s tactical and it’s very, very bloody, featuring bold new game mechanics.
Warcry is perfect for narrative players looking to forge character-driven campaigns where warbands grow and develop through their own journey. Meanwhile, gamers looking for a close-matched, fast and exciting experience will find a game that fits both their coffee table and coffee break.
In the game, you’ll follow the myriad tribes of Chaos – reavers and despoilers from every corner of the realms – as they make their dark pilgrimage to the Varanspire. Warcry explores a never-before-seen side of life (and death!) in the Age of Sigmar. Every model for this game is brand new, reflecting on the dizzying diversity of Chaos on a scale never attempted before and rooted in rich lore that realises the servants of the Dark Gods as deep and varied cultures.
We’ll have more Warcry news for you (and some closer looks at those stunning models!) in the coming weeks – make sure to subscribe to our email newsletter and follow our Facebook page to make sure you don’t miss any announcements.
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
Chopstick wrote: Warcry, it's Killteam but with unique "tribes". So basically it's AoS "Necromunda/Morheim" made by GW team.
Looks like there is six tribes, each with their own icons. I'm curious to see if this will have seasons like Shadespire with new factions, or if it will be more about customizing a single gang with multiple releases within each gang. I was hoping for something to use other AoS models in, but I think I'm okay with it going the Necromunda route (mainly because I don't think Necromunda gets nearly enough support, and seems almost like a distant second to Frostgrave). The terrain doesn't look nearly as modular as Sector Mechanicus or Imperialis, but it's got catwalks at least.
Since this is taking place at the Eightpoints, I’m guessing the different war bands come from the different realms? I’d bet that the bony, tribal guys are from Ghur and the dive-helmet guys are from Chamon.
Warcry sounds like what I've been waiting for. Nothing but nutty crazy Chaos stuff killing each other. No extra decks or cards or special dice either.
Hoping that scenery is included as well. Probably at the new Shadowspear price point though. Guess I at least have time to start saving pennies for it!
Poorly lit photos of my ever- growing collection of completely unrelated models!
The arms look kinda stubby, beard is braided, looks kinda fireslayer esque in its proportions. It very well could be...and if it is...well it's about darn time chaos dwarfs got something in plastic.
Honestly though for me the appeal of the chaos dwarfs lied with hashut, their lore, the darklands and ash wastes and their relationship with greenskins, mutations. Without all that lore and background from the old world then they are just bland and lacking. I doubt aos chorfs would be able to match that, unless they had new lore written from the ground up that was actually interesting.
However, price has yet to be announced, most of the complaints so far haven't been about price - which again, we don't know yet - but about a chaos commissar being dumb or, a chaos ogryn being uninspired, etc.
However, when I called that out not one person actually addressed that. The anti-GW brigade immediately jumped in and started parroting the pricing argument, which is where it always devolves to when you don't have any other actual argument - and yet again, pricing hasn't been revealed - and if you want to argue that previous pricing is likely a likely predictor of future pricing, I would say "no gak" so quit the outrage act with each new release and either accept this company's product is expensive or find a more affordable hobby for your budget. You don't see people going on BMW forums complaining about the cost of their products... or maybe you do, I wouldn't actually know, but those people would be as dumb as the ones who haven't yet accepted the fact that GW is and will continue to be and overpriced luxury item, and it exists, much like other luxury items, because their is a significant enough demand to support that makret.
What is it you expect exactly? For prices to drop drastically, despite record profits? For quality releases to be discounted because you want to pay less? How many years has this continued to be the case and you continue to expect different results? I think there's a definition for that...
I think the perceived value for money of the existing BF expansion - the Ambull - just isn't there. It retails in the US for $60, yet the Necromunda Ambots are only $40 - and they look like you're getting so much more bang for your buck than you do in the Ambull expansion. I was super excited about the Ambull when I saw it previewed but my enthusiasm was completely killed by the pricing and my perception of the value for money - or rather, total lack thereof. It doesn't help that it costs $78 Canadian with sales tax from my local, yet I could get it shipped to my mother's place in the UK for $30 less, but that's really secondary when I'm comparing two broadly similar releases, advertised at the same time, which seem to offer substantially different value propositions.
I think you're misunderstanding the expectations of the people who are expecting to be disappointed; the insanity is that two Ambots cost 2/3 the price of one Ambull and some bits of paper. Why would this release be any less consistently inconsistent?
(For the record I have no issue with the traitor commissar and I think the Ogryn looks pretty good).
Yep, that's me too. I was looking at getting the Ambull on its own (I don't own BSF - almost got it, but then my favoured seller stopped selling to Australia, so the price jumped ~20%), but the price is just way too high. Even if I had the base game, paying roughly half as much again for a single miniature (with two token freebie not-big-enoug-to-count-as-their-own-miniatures) is just not feasible.
Interestingly, I am spending less in total with the recent price hikes, as, although I could say "i'll just spend the same, and buy less", what I'm actually feeling like is "this is not worth $X", and thus not getting it.
The arms look kinda stubby, beard is braided, looks kinda fireslayer esque in its proportions. It very well could be...and if it is...well it's about darn time chaos dwarfs got something in plastic.
Honestly though for me the appeal of the chaos dwarfs lied with hashut, their lore, the darklands and ash wastes and their relationship with greenskins, mutations. Without all that lore and background from the old world then they are just bland and lacking. I doubt aos chorfs would be able to match that, unless they had new lore written from the ground up that was actually interesting.
Agreed, but then, pretty much everything about AOS (bar a few exception) is bland and lacking
lost and damned log
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/519978.page#6525039
Kid_Kyoto wrote: Forgive my ignorance but isn't AoS already a skirmish game replacing the mass battle WHF?
What we need is an Xhibit meme
Yo dawg, we heard you like skirmish so we made a skirmish ruleset for your skirmish ruleset so you can play skirmish games while playing skirmish games!
