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**Redemption**

Considering the 80 countdown directly references Abaddon and has nothing to do with Nemendghast, I very much doubt it was for Shadowspear.

**Voss**

Geifer wrote:
Got a question about the Forgotten Thingy thing. Why did a whole lot of people associate that with Sigmarines? Maybe I missed something obvious but the trailer just looked like Nagash's basement to me.
.

The voiceover - something about 'even gods make mistakes' or regrets or whatever. Plus some floating fluff about Sigmar having some crazies locked away somewhere (too many reforgings).

Also the iconography in front of the door is a sunburst, halos and two griffhound statues, which points directly at Sigmarines.

Plus 'forbidden power' fits with the 'too edgy for you' vibe they've attached to the Sigmarines. They aren't actually good, as they haul off and slaughter villages on the off chance they might be tainted by chaos or death.

Nagash doesn't work, as he's supremely unlikely to pointlessly forbid himself power.

**Geifer**

Kanluwen wrote:
I'm getting way to much DLC vibe from GW these days to get excited about Warcry just yet, but if I wanted to be hopeful (and I do - I'd really like a good AoS skirmish game) I'd would want to believe that in spite of GW's iron will to make Age of Sigmar successful, it appears to me as though they don't have the same confidence in it as they have in 40k. So maybe, just maybe, we'll get a well rounded game in the core book because they don't think they can get away with the DLC model as easily in Age of Sigmar. Maybe?

Kill Team is pretty well-rounded in its core book. They're adding options with each of these books, and let's not pretend like people are really going to be put out when it lets you use models you already own.

Given that this whole WarCry thing seems to be set in a single locality(Varanspire)? I would be surprised if it isn't a testbed ala Shadow War Armageddon.

**Kanluwen**

Voss wrote:
Geifer wrote:
Got a question about the Forgotten Thingy thing. Why did a whole lot of people associate that with Sigmarines? Maybe I missed something obvious but the trailer just looked like Nagash's basement to me.
.

The voiceover - something about 'even gods make mistakes' or regrets or whatever. Plus some floating fluff about Sigmar having some crazies locked away somewhere (too many reforgings).

Yes. They're "locked away"(not really) in the Stormhold.

Also the iconography in front of the door is a sunburst, halos and two griffhound statues, which points directly at Sigmarines.

No, it points to Sigmar. Not "Sigmarines".

Plus 'forbidden power' fits with the 'too edgy for you' vibe they've attached to the Sigmarines. They aren't actually good, as they haul off and slaughter villages on the off chance they might be tainted by chaos or death.

How in the hell does "forbidden power" fit with Stormcast? You bring up things from the video but did you read the description associated with it?

It's supposed to be stuff for every army. Forbidden Power is the title of the product. That lines up with "Malign Portents".

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Geifer wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:

Kill Team is pretty well-rounded in its core book. They're adding options with each of these books, and let's not pretend like people are really going to be put out when it lets you use models you already own.

Given that this whole WarCry thing seems to be set in a single locality(Varanspire)? I would be surprised if it isn't a testbed ala Shadow War Armageddon.

I'm not going to clog up this thread with a Kill Team discussion, but "well rounded" is not the impression I got from the core rules. More like "half baked" or "low effort".

That's your perogative, but it isn't what I got from my experience playing it.

Is it Infinity levels of complex? No. But that's a good thing.

Anyway, I don't see what GW could possibly need a test bed for. They've done enough skirmish games in the last couple of years to know there's demand. They had their low effort AoS Skirmish already. I'm inclined to say the locality is a core book thing meant to justify new Chaos models and give a cohesive setting. If they want to introduce other settings, they can easily go and release expansions which, looking at Kill Team, Blackstone Fortress, all those campaign books for the main games etc. they seem to be doing with glee these days.

None of the items for Kill Team are required though. Same goes for Blackstone Fortress and 40k(which let's be brutally frank here: there's a single campaign book for currently and a second on the way. We aren't exactly buried under them right now). There's been no campaign books for AoS2.0 yet.

**Geifer**

Kanluwen wrote:
Anyway, I don't see what GW could possibly need a test bed for. They've done enough skirmish games in the last couple of years to know there's demand. They had their low effort AoS Skirmish already. I'm inclined to say the locality is a core book thing meant to justify new Chaos models and give a cohesive setting. If they want to introduce other settings, they can easily go and release expansions which, looking at Kill Team, Blackstone Fortress, all those campaign books for the main games etc. they seem to be doing with glee these days.

None of the items for Kill Team are required though. Same goes for Blackstone Fortress and 40k(which let's be brutally frank here: there's a single campaign book for currently and a second on the way. We aren't exactly buried under them right now). There's been no campaign books for AoS2.0 yet.

**Mac V**

So is it time for Choas Sigmarines?

I’m hoping the fluff progresses to the point that the Sigmarines and Chaos pull WAY back and allow for if not the World that Was to reappear in SOME way, at least a World I Recognize to form.

I particularly liked City of Secrets and hope to see things start moving more that way soon. I really like Age of Sigmar as a game, but I just got bored with the fluff.

**Darth Bob**

The maybe-Furies in the Warcry game look awesome. They remind me of the Bat Wing Demons from Anor Londo in Dark Souls.

**Voss**

No, it points to Sigmar. Not "Sigmarines"

Its several years and a new edition on since the start of AoS. There is no 'Sigmar' release that isn't a Sigmarine (or a Griff-something pet for Sigmarines)

And GW has repeatedly released 'new' (read: largely identical) chambers at every major product for AoS. The idea that forbidden power won't involve Sigmarines of some kind is wishful thinking at this point.

**Haighus**

Voss wrote:

No, it points to Sigmar. Not "Sigmarines"

Its several years and a new edition on since the start of AoS. There is no 'Sigmar' release that isn't a Sigmarine (or a Griff-something pet for Sigmarines)

And GW has repeatedly released 'new' (read: largely identical) chambers at every major product for AoS. The idea that forbidden power won't involve Sigmarines of some kind is wishful thinking at this point.

Well, there is the human Sigmar priest.

**Yodhrin**

Warcry looks interesting, just a shame it's yet another product that didn't actually need the setting change to exist. If the rules are any good and the other warbands are as appealing as those, I'll probably rework it a bit(read: change the names of stuff) to run a more "relaxed" Path to Glory(classic)/Chaos Wastes campaign.

**lord_blackfang**

Voss wrote:

No, it points to Sigmar. Not "Sigmarines"

Its several years and a new edition on since the start of AoS. There is no 'Sigmar' release that isn't a Sigmarine (or a Griff-something pet for Sigmarines)

And GW has repeatedly released 'new' (read: largely identical) chambers at every major product for AoS. The idea that forbidden power won't involve Sigmarines of some kind is wishful thinking at this point.

And I'm not even sure what to call the idea that an "expansion for every army" is Sigmarines.

**Crimson**

lord_blackfang wrote:

And I'm not even sure what to call the idea that an "expansion for every army" is Sigmarines.

They are renegade Sigmarine mercenaries that can be allied with any army!

**Geifer**

Crimson wrote:
lord_blackfang wrote:

And I'm not even sure what to call the idea that an "expansion for every army" is Sigmarines.

They are renegade Sigmarine mercenaries that can be allied with any army!

And remember, even the evil Sigmarines are an army of Order.

**MothCult**

Crimson wrote:
lord_blackfang wrote:

And I'm not even sure what to call the idea that an "expansion for every army" is Sigmarines.

They are renegade Sigmarine mercenaries that can be allied with any army!

No, no, no, every army can get tabled by them equally, how does that not enrich the game for every faction?

But on a more serious note super interested in Warcry, not what I was expecting and a little disappointed by the lack of an Alves faction but very cool regardless.
New terrain looks really cool, especially the bell tower parts, I can finally build the Bloodborne themed terrain I wanted.

Oh and I super need this beastmaster lady.

Spoiler:

**ImAGeek**

I am super excited for Warcry. It looks fantastic.

**Desubot**

MothCult wrote:

Oh and I super need this beastmaster lady.

Spoiler:

Oh my curiosity has been piqued

**Togusa**

Thargrim wrote:
Warcry looks great at a glance, at least in terms of the models. But i'm kinda concerned they are just flooding an already saturated market with another cash grab game. And I can't see this one catching on. Especially if your only option is playing in a GW store cause you don't have normal lgs. I'm at the point where I feel like just saying GW sucks at writing rules and games. They make great models, some of the best on the market, but I don't have confidence in their newer releases having the staying power of Blood Bowl/Necromunda etc or true classics.

The more of these throw away boxed sets they do the more there is less focus and concentration on a core product. And looking back at the last few years I realized I wasted a lot of money on stuff like this (and i'm done doing so). DW overkill, played it once, boxed, it, no one ever played it. And it's sat in the closet ever since. Blackstone fortress, half a dozen people locally bought it at least, cannibalized it for 40k and never played the actual game included.

This. No one wants BS fortress for the game, they want the models for 40K. Kill Team? Was an excuse to bundle some terrain. Even now, I'm looking at the Chaos Commanders for BS fortress and thinking "Just give me the traitor guard codex and army now"

**ImAGeek**

Togusa wrote:
Thargrim wrote:
Warcry looks great at a glance, at least in terms of the models. But i'm kinda concerned they are just flooding an already saturated market with another cash grab game. And I can't see this one catching on. Especially if your only option is playing in a GW store cause you don't have normal lgs. I'm at the point where I feel like just saying GW sucks at writing rules and games. They make great models, some of the best on the market, but I don't have confidence in their newer releases having the staying power of Blood Bowl/Necromunda etc or true classics.

The more of these throw away boxed sets they do the more there is less focus and concentration on a core product. And looking back at the last few years I realized I wasted a lot of money on stuff like this (and i'm done doing so). DW overkill, played it once, boxed, it, no one ever played it. And it's sat in the closet ever since. Blackstone fortress, half a dozen people locally bought it at least, cannibalized it for 40k and never played the actual game included.

This. No one wants BS fortress for the game, they want the models for 40K. Kill Team? Was an excuse to bundle some terrain. Even now, I'm looking at the Chaos Commanders for BS fortress and thinking "Just give me the traitor guard codex and army now"

This is by the team that did Warhammer Underworlds and Kill Team. Kill Team seems to be mostly well received, but Warhammer Underworlds has been very successful, and has taken off in a pretty big way, from what I've seen.

**AndrewGPaul**

Togusa wrote:

This. No one wants BS fortress for the game, they want the models for 40K.

Wrong, I'm afraid.

**Geifer**

MothCult wrote:
Crimson wrote:
lord_blackfang wrote:

And I'm not even sure what to call the idea that an "expansion for every army" is Sigmarines.

They are renegade Sigmarine mercenaries that can be allied with any army!

No, no, no, every army can get tabled by them equally, how does that not enrich the game for every faction?

But on a more serious note super interested in Warcry, not what I was expecting and a little disappointed by the lack of an Alves faction but very cool regardless.
New terrain looks really cool, especially the bell tower parts, I can finally build the Bloodborne themed terrain I wanted.

Oh and I super need this beastmaster lady.

Spoiler:

While I personally could do without yet more elves (disclaimer: elves strapped to a Chaos altar are always fun and exempt) it is curious how GW on the one hand insists on the all corrupting nature of Chaos but then focuses so much on fallen humans. Even Chaos Dwarfs got super neglected for a long time. But where are the Chaos Elves? Damn shame, really.

I like that they threw in a couple of female models there. I'm still waiting for a proper Darkoath release, though, because no matter how many of these individual sculpts appear, they are just too unique for my taste. Using/converting one is fine, but the second or third at most doesn't offer you enough difference anymore. Would be cool to see a plain Darkoath core unit with a fifty fifty split to make some fun warbands out of.

**Togusa**

AndrewGPaul wrote:
Togusa wrote:

This. No one wants BS fortress for the game, they want the models for 40K.

Wrong, I'm afraid.

I've yet to see the game played in my area, but I see all those models being used in 40K weekly...

Hell, even my OWN copy of BSF hasn't actually been played yet, but the models have.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

ImAGeek wrote:
Togusa wrote:
Thargrim wrote:
Warcry looks great at a glance, at least in terms of the models. But i'm kinda concerned they are just flooding an already saturated market with another cash grab game. And I can't see this one catching on. Especially if your only option is playing in a GW store cause you don't have normal lgs. I'm at the point where I feel like just saying GW sucks at writing rules and games. They make great models, some of the best on the market, but I don't have confidence in their newer releases having the staying power of Blood Bowl/Necromunda etc or true classics.

The more of these throw away boxed sets they do the more there is less focus and concentration on a core product. And looking back at the last few years I realized I wasted a lot of money on stuff like this (and i'm done doing so). DW overkill, played it once, boxed, it, no one ever played it. And it's sat in the closet ever since. Blackstone fortress, half a dozen people locally bought it at least, cannibalized it for 40k and never played the actual game included.

This. No one wants BS fortress for the game, they want the models for 40K. Kill Team? Was an excuse to bundle some terrain. Even now, I'm looking at the Chaos Commanders for BS fortress and thinking "Just give me the traitor guard codex and army now"

This is by the team that did Warhammer Underworlds and Kill Team. Kill Team seems to be mostly well received, but Warhammer Underworlds has been very successful, and has taken off in a pretty big way, from what I've seen.

I've no doubt people play the games. However, these games pale in comparison to the number of people playing base 40K on a weekly basis.

**Inquisitor Gideon**

That's up to you to get an evening organized to play then. Personally speaking my group has board game evenings and we've played through most of the GW games on quite a regular basis.

**ImAGeek**

Togusa wrote:

ImAGeek wrote:
Togusa wrote:
Thargrim wrote:
Warcry looks great at a glance, at least in terms of the models. But i'm kinda concerned they are just flooding an already saturated market with another cash grab game. And I can't see this one catching on. Especially if your only option is playing in a GW store cause you don't have normal lgs. I'm at the point where I feel like just saying GW sucks at writing rules and games. They make great models, some of the best on the market, but I don't have confidence in their newer releases having the staying power of Blood Bowl/Necromunda etc or true classics.

The more of these throw away boxed sets they do the more there is less focus and concentration on a core product. And looking back at the last few years I realized I wasted a lot of money on stuff like this (and i'm done doing so). DW overkill, played it once, boxed, it, no one ever played it. And it's sat in the closet ever since. Blackstone fortress, half a dozen people locally bought it at least, cannibalized it for 40k and never played the actual game included.

This. No one wants BS fortress for the game, they want the models for 40K. Kill Team? Was an excuse to bundle some terrain. Even now, I'm looking at the Chaos Commanders for BS fortress and thinking "Just give me the traitor guard codex and army now"

This is by the team that did Warhammer Underworlds and Kill Team. Kill Team seems to be mostly well received, but Warhammer Underworlds has been very successful, and has taken off in a pretty big way, from what I've seen.

I've no doubt people play the games. However, these games pale in comparison to the number of people playing base 40K on a weekly basis.

So they shouldn't do anything else ever, because they won't instantly have as many players as 40k does..?

**AndrewGPaul**

Togusa wrote:
AndrewGPaul wrote:
Togusa wrote:

This. No one wants BS fortress for the game, they want the models for 40K.

Wrong, I'm afraid.

I've yet to see the game played in my area, but I see all those models being used in 40K weekly...

I know four people including myself who bought the game. I'm the only one who plays 40k, and I have no intent of playing 40k with them.

Yes, more people play 40k than BSF, WU, whatever. So what? These games are for people who don't necessarily want to play 40k or AoS. WU can be played in a lunch break and requires no glue or paint. BSF and WC offer a play experience that you won't get with matched play 40k or AoS. Frankly, I find that sort of thing more appealing than simply re-releasing something for 40k, even if I don't quite want to play that particular new thing.

**Rayvon**

Obviously some people play them but the vast majority are only after the models.

I see people asking about the minis coming separately all the time and I have never seen anyone ask for one of those games.

Since this new trend of new minis with unwanted games, GW are now regularly producing huge amounts of unrecyclable waste.

That is my only real gripe with them of late, they should be improving in that area not getting worse.

**AndrewGPaul**

What's non-recyclable? If people are so blinkered that they won't play the games, the stuff they're binning is paper.

**Chairman Aeon**

So Warcry is to AoS as Necromunda is to 40K, a little part blown up and (hopefully) examined in hyper detail. I like some of the minis, not sure on the game.

What I find interesting is:
Shadespire*, Necromunda, Black Stone Fortress, Warcry all get new minis just for them. That's risky for an unproven game.
Shadow War Armaggedon, Kill Team get new terrain and one set of exclusive minis that don't really fit the game's theme. These were low risk games before any models were thrown in since there has be a big desire for a 40K skirmish game.

If GW decided to do a 40K Shadespire game, do you think we'd finally see new models just for it, or recycled older kits? I'm wondering the mindset of GW since all their effort seems to be in high risk stuff because they know new minis sell new games, but could be bothered to make new minis for the gateway game to their cash cow...

**Irbis**

Incidentally, RS adressed discussion from this thread:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/03/13/the-regimental-standard-commissars-an-errata/

**Albino Squirrel**

Chairman Aeon wrote:
So Warcry is to AoS as Necromunda is to 40K, a little part blown up and (hopefully) examined in hyper detail. I like some of the minis, not sure on the game.

What I find interesting is:
Shadespire*, Necromunda, Black Stone Fortress, Warcry all get new minis just for them. That's risky for an unproven game.
Shadow War Armaggedon, Kill Team get new terrain and one set of exclusive minis that don't really fit the game's theme. These were low risk games before any models were thrown in since there has be a big desire for a 40K skirmish game.

If GW decided to do a 40K Shadespire game, do you think we'd finally see new models just for it, or recycled older kits? I'm wondering the mindset of GW since all their effort seems to be in high risk stuff because they know new minis sell new games, but could be bothered to make new minis for the gateway game to their cash cow...

You're thinking about this the wrong way. The way these games get made is that the sculptors design some cool new miniatures. Then the games developers invent a game for them. They didn't create new miniatures for Shadespire or Blackstone Fortress. The miniatures had already been created, and then had to invent games for them.

**Rayvon**

AndrewGPaul wrote:
What's non-recyclable? If people are so blinkered that they won't play the games, the stuff they're binning is paper.

so much of the recent stuff comes with inserts made of both plastic and card that cant be recycled, a lot of the books cant be recycled either.

I have been helping run a bits website and ebay store over the past five years and being a bit of a hippy the sheer amount of stuff that we could not recycle really shocked me.