Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 gorgon wrote:
Seemed like an awfully calculated crime of passion, though. "I don't care, he killed my mom." Said calmly. In other words, I've processed that Bucky is actually innocent, but I'm going to murder him and you and any other innocent if you get in my way...because I am. That's different than blowing up some terrorists.

Said calmly? Seriously? The dude is clearly emotionally compromised at that point in the movie. He might not be screaming at the top of the lungs or frothing at the mouth, but he's definitely not calm. Also how the hell do you get 'kill any other innocent in my way' from that scene? How???

My top 5 in no particular order:
The Avengers: Just a really fun movie that proved the concept that a movie with multiple superheroes could work without any one of them being completely overshadowed by one or more of the others. I loved the action and the story wasn't terrible either IMO. Plus, "Puny God!"
Iron Man: Great story about an egomaniac who goes through some stuff and becomes a better person over the course of the movie (better in many ways) without completely losing his personality. Plus, it launched the whole MCU, so it has a special place in my heart.
Guardians of the Galaxy: I love action movies with some comedy in them, so this one really scratched the itch. The main characters are all amazing in their own ways, and the actors who played them did a really amazing job.
Avengers: Age of Ultron: One of the best villains from the whole MCU, plus some amazing action made this one of my favorites as well. Plus, it brought in Elizabeth Olsen (possibly my favorite lady from the MCU).
Spider-man: Homecoming: It was nice to see a Spider-man movie without having to rehash his origin story. Plus, seeing an awkward kid becoming a superhero is always cool and is why Spidey might be my all-time favorite superhero. The villain was pretty good too.

Honorable mentions to Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2, Black Panther, Thor: Ragnarok, and both Ant-Man movies.

Having now seen all the MCU movies so far, I would say my 5 favorites are in more or less order:

1) Iron Man 1: basically the launcher of the MCU and probably the best origin story for a superhero I have seen so far in no small part thanks to RDJ's performance.

2) Thor 3: goofy, but very funny and the villains (both the Grandmaster and Hela) were simply fantastic.

3) Infinity War: the first one to give us a proper "big hero moment", a good villain and some twists all of this with a gigantic cast of character.

4) Avenger 1: a very successful superhero movie with an extended cast and great performances.

5) Black Panther: a not quite origin story with a great cast, impressive visuals and well constructed story. It's rare thing to see an afro-futurist movie out there to so the novelty certainly helps selling it.

As for the five worst, none of which I actually really disliked, I just thought they were kind of bad.

5) The First Captain America was too corny for my taste and pulpy for my taste.

4) Iron Man 2: like Iron Man one, but worst.

3) Avengers 2: lower stakes then a solo movie of any one of these superheroes. That's a big disapointment.

2) Guardian of the Galaxy 2: Starlord is the most boring member of the team. His family angst are a poor driver to a story.

1) Thor 2: The romance really gets in the way and the villain fails to impress. Loki saves the movie from being downright bad though.

 Lance845 wrote:
I didnt say tony was a psyco killer. I said he was a killer. Hawkeye is a killer. Thors a killer. Hulks a killer. They are all killers. You cant take someone who has been a killer, for personal vengeful reasons before, place him in a room with the guy who actually caried out his lifes greatest trauma, and then say its out of character for him to go murderous.

Tony stark is not carnage. He isnt killing willy nilly for fun. But he IS a killer and will do it for personal reasons. And has killed more people for less personal reasons.

Predators II, This Time its Avengers

I think the main difference between Cap and Stark is that Cap, whilst a killer, is first and foremost a Soldier.

Without going at all political, because, lets just not, yeah, that is a significant difference.

I think the reason I don’t hold Ragnarok in such high regard is that it’s supposed to be the end of Asgard. The final war. Hela kicks everyones’ collective asses, kills Thor’s friends, and then it’s just funny. It’s TOO funny. It’s kind of like farting at a funeral as loudly as possible then launching spitballs at each other through the ceremony. The action is great. The acting is great. Just...the feel of the movie seems to have been missed. It’s funny; it REALLY is! It just shouldn’t be.

I'm one to appreciate gallows humour - which needn't be dark.

Perhaps there's a cultural thing there? I dunno. I'm just speculating.

The issue with Ragnarok's comedy is that it's omnipresent. Throughout the entire film, there's not a single poignant moment or important character beat that then isn't immediately undercut by an often crass joke. Thor and Loki have a load of absolutely brilliant scenes together that are entirely ruined by their final lines. The elevator scene for instance, is a great climax of their shared arc to that point, undercut immediately by Loki being used as a bowling ball against some guards.

I enjoy dark humour and slapstick as much as the next guy, but Ragnarok didn't know when to stop. It's as if they were terrified people would stop caring if more than one scene ended on an actually serious note. Aquaman I think got that sort of humour way better, because it used it in moderation. There's one-liners and slapstick silliness abound, but it's carefully separated from the character beats and emotional moments.

I definitely was a bit disappointed by the inability to turn the humor off in Ragnarok when I first saw it. On subsequent viewings I find it less jarring. There's two in particular I don't care for (Banner's pratfall and Korg's line after Asgard's destruction) but the movie on the whole does too much well for me to dwell on a couple of (significant) missed beats.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

epronovost wrote:

5) Black Panther: a not quite origin story with a great cast, impressive visuals and well constructed story. It's rare thing to see an afro-futurist movie out there to so the novelty certainly helps selling it.

To me, what really makes BP stand out above the rest of the MCU films is that the afro-futurism is way more than set and costume dressing. The movie's central conflict really isn't about who rules Wakanda but uses those characters to represent a pair of cultural ideals and pitting them against one another. It takes a pretty serious culture war and argues for a compelling alternative in a way you really only see from the best sci-fi stories. Honestly, IMO it's tossing around ideas bigger than you find in most of the best movies out there and mostly gets overlooked because people tend to be far too dismissive of what can be told in under the funny books banner.

Thor and Thor: The Dark World were bottom of my list on release. but since I'e watched Thor a couple of times since, I've changed my opinion on that film; I'll need to re-watch T:TDW to see if it's improved.

Partly I think it's the change in tone of the franchise as a whole. Before Thor, Iron Man, The Incredible Hulk and Captain America had all been reasonably grounded, and then along came Thor, and it went full-on comic-book space and spandex. I wasn't keen on the change in the look, but now, after both GotG films, Avengers, Doctor Strange and Thor: Ragnarok it fits in better, I think.

Thor does a lot right. It's a little awkward in that it can't tell how grounded it needs to be or how fantastical it wants to be, but there are aspects of both I really enjoy. It seems to have strengths and weaknesses in equal measure.

Thor 2 has some stand out bits (black hole grenades look incredible and it raises the question of whether the coat rack is worthy) and Loki's redemption(?) arc is fun but the actual plot is kind of terrible. It has the most forgettable villains in the entire MCU (I mostly remember them because this conversation keeps coming up) and it has no idea what it wants to do with the grounding elements of the franchise that the rest of the MCU had outgrown post Avengers.

Ugh. This is hard.

1. Black Panther
2. Guardians of the Galaxy 2
3. Thor Rangarok.

But what I do like that all the series have their own narratives. Captain America's series is my favorite, but I like what they did with Thor and Ironman as well. I liked Iron Man 3 and how it kept continuing Tony Stark's narrative that he is his own worse enemy. I love his growth over the entire course of the MCU and how better he has gotten to listening to other people and being willing to defer. Thor has grown and matured over the series as well.

I like to thing of the MCU more of a TV series at this point: Sure, it has standout episodes, but when you watch it you usually will have a good time. Even the worse ones were at least well crafted and had some good aspects.

In terms of rewatch value, I think Ultron actually improves once you know what follows.

Whilst a waste of an Avengers film, it does foreshadow quite a lot of stuff. Certainly it helps setup Civil War, by showing cracks and ideological clashes within the team.

Plus, Elizabeth Olsen.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
In terms of rewatch value, I think Ultron actually improves once you know what follows.

Whilst a waste of an Avengers film, it does foreshadow quite a lot of stuff. Certainly it helps setup Civil War, by showing cracks and ideological clashes within the team.

Plus, Elizabeth Olsen.

I recon Age of Ultrons main problem is that they attempted to turn an Iron Man movie into an Avengers movie, resulting in stuff like Thors vision quest. If they'd focused on Tony/Bruce/Rhodes, and set it up as a counterpart to Cap 2, I feel that the film would have been much better.

 Crazy_Carnifex wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
In terms of rewatch value, I think Ultron actually improves once you know what follows.

Whilst a waste of an Avengers film, it does foreshadow quite a lot of stuff. Certainly it helps setup Civil War, by showing cracks and ideological clashes within the team.

Plus, Elizabeth Olsen.

I recon Age of Ultrons main problem is that they attempted to turn an Iron Man movie into an Avengers movie, resulting in stuff like Thors vision quest. If they'd focused on Tony/Bruce/Rhodes, and set it up as a counterpart to Cap 2, I feel that the film would have been much better.

Ultron is very much an Avengers movie through and through; its just mainly its own story and not the follow up to the Thanos reveal at the end of the original that people had been buzzing about for 3 years at that point. It doesn't reward you for slavishing watching the movies that came between (this was right about the point people started realizing that connectivity was more of a trickle down thing than a two way street). Most of its problems come from trying to force itself to be a part of something it was only loosely connected to and people building up pretty impossible expectations for it. Honestly, I can't think back and find any real problems with it, and there's a lot of moments I really love. I'm not really sure why it has such a negative reputation.

I just feel the Iron Legion, and Stark's insistence on an AI wasn't expected. It feels like a movie is missing.

I mean, the last time we saw Stark, he'd just come through IM3, and destroyed all his suits.

Suddenly, he's back to 'I love my suits, I do'. Narratively it's a bit jarring. As you say, it's a perfectly fine film (and I do enjoy it). Just feels a bit disjointed.

There's perhaps too much going on - Tony's PTSD ramping up, the creation of Ultron, the introduction of Scarlet Witch and Quicksliver and the creation of Vision. Then there's all the globetrotting, which leads to some nice set-pieces, but it does make the whole thing rather disjointed and a little rushed, I think.

Sure, I'm not saying its faultless by any means. It just seems to have a pretty bad reputation, but I can't really find any huge problems with it. Little annoyances absolutely, but nothing really huge or problematic. Maybe its just timing, but in hindsight I'm not sure what exactly is wrong with it.

I discussed this in Cpt Marvel thread. Problem is that Ultron is not scary. He should be fearsome, cruel, more Terminator-like. Instead he talks too much (with wussy-sounding voice) and trades schoolyard jabs. Whedon sometimes ruins his villains like that (The First from Buffy season 7 primo example).

I'd say my top5 is like

1. Civil War
2. Guardians of the Galaxy
3. Winter Soldier
4. Infinity War
5. Ragnarök

Although on some other day I might toss Black Panther or Iron Man 1 there too. As can be seen, I am a sucker for large cast and epic mega-battles.
Homecoming is only one I haven't seen yet but I have already estabilished that I hate it. I did not like much of first two Thors but I guess they're watchable. Iron Man 2 is only one which is actively bad. When main villain is more symphatetic than the hero, you have a problem.

1. Infinity War
2. Avengers
3. Winter Soldier
4. Iron Man
5. Guardians 1

1. Iron Man 1
A character that is was only vaguely familiar with brought to life with style and humour to appeal to the masses
2. Avengers 1
Flawless team movie, it flows beautifully and retains both humour and pathos.
3. Cap Marvel 1
Hell of a ride - humour and action melding wonderfully - and Cthulhu Cats win!
4. Infinity War 1
The story of Thanos rather than the huge cast of heroes - again extremely well crafted.
5. Thor 2
Really enjoyed , especially interactions between Loki and Thor - "oh dear, is she dead" about the lovely ms Portman

Nearly made it - Black Panther, Cap A 2

Spider-man: Homecoming
Antman
Antman and the Wasp
Iron Man
Captain America: First Avenger

Voss wrote:

 Henry wrote:
The one I find the strangest is Guardians 2. So many have it in their top 5 (or 10) and complement it's warmth and themes. I find it a wretched film, far worse than anything else in the MCU, with no redeeming qualities - the polar opposite of Guardians 1.

I get the themes, but warmth? The characters seem like they can barely stand to be in the same room for most of the film, and love is cancer, abandonment and mass murder. I'd be seriously confused if someone tried to argue that.

I'm going to go ahead and point out that the cancer, abandonment and mass murder were all the work of the film's villain, brought in by his active refusal to love anything or anyone other than himself.

Yeah I'm a bit defensive, GotG2 is my favourite MCU movie.

After that, Winter Soldier is an aggressive second place followed by Iron Man, Avengers and depending on my mood, Cap 1, GotG1 or Doctor Strange.

Probably...

1) Guardians of the Galaxy
2) Captain America Winter Soldier
3) Captain America Civil War
4) Iron Man 1
5) Infinity War

With the following filling out the top 10:

Spider-Man Homecoming
Black Panther
Captain Marvel
Avengers


Harder one is probably going for bottom 5, because I can only think of 4 that really sucked:

Hulk?
Age of Ultron
Iron Man 2
Thor 2
Iron Man 3- the only movie that is mostly ignored.

Ah if we are going for bottom 5 as well

Weakest 3 and they are not unwatchable.....

1. Cap America 1 - weak plot, poor characters and awful villian
2. The Incredable Hulk - just not that great and no charisma between main couple
3. Guardians 2 - not finished watching it - got bored, weak plot and characters

All the rest are really good, with many stand outs.

Worst 5

Incredible Hulk (just never liked the character much)
Guardians 1 (fun but comes across as bad sci fi and at the end I had no idea who the bad guy was, why he was a threat or even how he'd been defeated)
Guardians 2 (requires more investment from 1 which I didn't have, seemed really slow paced)
Iron Man 2 (maybe it's because I watched it first on camrip, but I barely remember anything about it. Guy with whips who hates Stark)
Thor 2 (too dark visually, got bored, remember very little about it)