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Deadnight wrote: Truth be told, marines had stopped being marines for me a long time ago.
That was a really interesting read - everyone's view is so subjective. I used to play RT with RTB01 marines, and 25 years later when I came back to the game in 8th edition I went straight for the latest TAC marines. To me they're every bit the marines I used to love. I don't deny that the Primaris models are nice (and I do own some), they're just not the iconic marines I remember.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/18 18:56:28
Deadnight wrote: Truth be told, marines had stopped being marines for me a long time ago.
That was a really interesting read - everyone's view is so subjective. I used to play RT with RTB01 marines, and 25 years later when I came back to the game in 8th edition I went straight for the latest TAC marines. To me they're every bit the marines I used to love. I don't deny that the Primaris models are nice (and I do own some), they're just not the iconic marines I remember.
100% IMO the Tactical box never got over-fancy. To me the iconic marines are the Tactical Squad with their Rhino. As long as I can field that image, I'll be happy.
Delvarus Centurion wrote: I collect SW's but they are in my top 5 favourite armies, but is anyone else feeling like their army is changing into something that no longer resembles SM's anymore. They new models look amazing and they offer great flexibility but they ain't SM's.
For me, it’s the opposite. When I see how model ranges ‘change’ over the years, I’m reminded of stuff I learned in school about genetic ‘drift’ and genetic ‘shift’. Briefly, in the case in the former, it is a slow, gradual accumulation of changes in a population that over a certain period of time (or even geographical distance) result in an entirely different species. In the case of the latter, it is generally a sudden sharp, (typically environmental in nature) pressure that forces a sudden change in a population (typically in terms of ‘attractive’ traits, that were up to this point marginal, or irrelevant, but all of a sudden, are now suddenly useful – an example most people are familiar with being the black and white moths and the industrial revolution).
I use the terms ‘drift’ and ‘shift’ loosely with regard to 40k, with the slow, gradual accumulations in the SM line as ‘drift’ and the sudden change/introduction of Primaris as a ‘shift’.
I remember as a kid being intrigued by 40k for years before I was finally able to get into it properly. This was 3rd ed 40k by the way. When I did, it was with Space Wolves. Back then, it was the ‘classic’ SM tactical box, and the ‘classic’ Space Wolves pack box. Both felt to me to be no-nonsense kits. Nothing over the top. Space Wolves felt like Marines with a Viking/barbarian flavour. Marines were marines. And then, over the years, things started to change, and the new SM models were slowly, but subtly blinged up. More and more so with every new release. First time I noted it was thr 4th ed tyrannic war veterans, and veteran SM. With robes and greebles. Still felt more ‘marine’ than ‘ornament’ though. But over time, for me, the sense of ‘ornament’ began to eclipse the ‘marine’. Sternguard and vanguard were the 'this is getting over the top' point for me. It got ridiculous by the time 5th ed was around, with Space Wolves changing from Marines with a Viking/barbarian flavour to becoming a barbarian/wolf cartoon, with a tiny amount of Space Marine flavour. Blood Angels were ‘blood-nouns’. And for me, the high (or rather low point of this) was Marneus Calgar and his honour guard. Specifically, the model I refer to as ‘wing-face’. For me, by this point Marines had ‘drifted’ to the point where they had gotten silly. Very silly. There was nothing that said 'marine' about them. It was all about the bling. And the ornaments. They stopped being Marines and started being walking chalices. There was nothing 'no-nonsense' about them. They were a cartoon parody of what they’d been.
It became all too clear to me when I came across an awesome model company called Anvil Industry and their sublime ‘Exo-lord’ range. Specifically, the black ops ‘totally-not-marines’ range. Here were no-nonsense 'marines'. No bling. No ornaments. No faff. No silly crap. Just pouches, grenades, knives, spare magazines. Thry felt and looked like geared up badasses ready to go and crack some skulls. They were Maybe a tiny bit ‘tacti-cool’ but all of a sudden I had the ‘look’ that I wanted. And as I saw them, I knew gw marines had completely lost that 'look' and I wished gw marines were more like anvil exo-lords.
So then a wee bit later and GW releases Primaris, and the long genetic ‘drift’ that had, for me, defined and undermined marines for too long suddenly ended with a decisive ‘shift’ to a model that was, again, no-nonsense marines. No bling. No ornaments. No faffs. Just perfectly, what id always wanted marines to be.
Truth be told, marines had stopped being marines for me a long time ago. Primaris ended the foolishness and brought them back in line with what id always wanted them to be.
This is a really cool perspective and written really well and I appreciate you sharing it
P.S.A. I won't read your posts if you break it into a million separate quotes and make an eyesore of it.
Stevefamine wrote: I wish I could mix up weapons in Intercessor squads - otherwise I spent a year or two hating them... now I sort of like the larger marines. It was a hard sell until I built a few
Brother, I see a lot of guys using the Primaris bodies with the Mk 6/7 Helmets and backpacks, the arms and everything else are compatable. And there's never been any difficulty telling which strain they are.
Delvarus Centurion wrote: I collect SW's but they are in my top 5 favourite armies, but is anyone else feeling like their army is changing into something that no longer resembles SM's anymore. They new models look amazing and they offer great flexibility but they ain't SM's.
For me, it’s the opposite. When I see how model ranges ‘change’ over the years, I’m reminded of stuff I learned in school about genetic ‘drift’ and genetic ‘shift’. Briefly, in the case in the former, it is a slow, gradual accumulation of changes in a population that over a certain period of time (or even geographical distance) result in an entirely different species. In the case of the latter, it is generally a sudden sharp, (typically environmental in nature) pressure that forces a sudden change in a population (typically in terms of ‘attractive’ traits, that were up to this point marginal, or irrelevant, but all of a sudden, are now suddenly useful – an example most people are familiar with being the black and white moths and the industrial revolution).
I use the terms ‘drift’ and ‘shift’ loosely with regard to 40k, with the slow, gradual accumulations in the SM line as ‘drift’ and the sudden change/introduction of Primaris as a ‘shift’.
I remember as a kid being intrigued by 40k for years before I was finally able to get into it properly. This was 3rd ed 40k by the way. When I did, it was with Space Wolves. Back then, it was the ‘classic’ SM tactical box, and the ‘classic’ Space Wolves pack box. Both felt to me to be no-nonsense kits. Nothing over the top. Space Wolves felt like Marines with a Viking/barbarian flavour. Marines were marines. And then, over the years, things started to change, and the new SM models were slowly, but subtly blinged up. More and more so with every new release. First time I noted it was thr 4th ed tyrannic war veterans, and veteran SM. With robes and greebles. Still felt more ‘marine’ than ‘ornament’ though. But over time, for me, the sense of ‘ornament’ began to eclipse the ‘marine’. Sternguard and vanguard were the 'this is getting over the top' point for me. It got ridiculous by the time 5th ed was around, with Space Wolves changing from Marines with a Viking/barbarian flavour to becoming a barbarian/wolf cartoon, with a tiny amount of Space Marine flavour. Blood Angels were ‘blood-nouns’. And for me, the high (or rather low point of this) was Marneus Calgar and his honour guard. Specifically, the model I refer to as ‘wing-face’. For me, by this point Marines had ‘drifted’ to the point where they had gotten silly. Very silly. There was nothing that said 'marine' about them. It was all about the bling. And the ornaments. They stopped being Marines and started being walking chalices. There was nothing 'no-nonsense' about them. They were a cartoon parody of what they’d been.
It became all too clear to me when I came across an awesome model company called Anvil Industry and their sublime ‘Exo-lord’ range. Specifically, the black ops ‘totally-not-marines’ range. Here were no-nonsense 'marines'. No bling. No ornaments. No faff. No silly crap. Just pouches, grenades, knives, spare magazines. Thry felt and looked like geared up badasses ready to go and crack some skulls. They were Maybe a tiny bit ‘tacti-cool’ but all of a sudden I had the ‘look’ that I wanted. And as I saw them, I knew gw marines had completely lost that 'look' and I wished gw marines were more like anvil exo-lords.
So then a wee bit later and GW releases Primaris, and the long genetic ‘drift’ that had, for me, defined and undermined marines for too long suddenly ended with a decisive ‘shift’ to a model that was, again, no-nonsense marines. No bling. No ornaments. No faffs. Just perfectly, what id always wanted marines to be.
Truth be told, marines had stopped being marines for me a long time ago. Primaris ended the foolishness and brought them back in line with what id always wanted them to be.
This is a really cool perspective and written really well and I appreciate you sharing it
Yeah, is well put, and a absolutely valid opinion.
One I disagree with, of course, but expected being myself an huge fan of ornaments and a Dark Angel player with an over abundance of winged helmets and religious iconography in literally everything. One that thinks Sisters's of battle Exorcist is the most warhammer model ever made, and that believes the more baroque and less tacti-cool the Empire looks, the better (I have Tau to scrach that thing for me).
Ironically Sternguard Veterans are one of my favourite SM kit of all time and that winged helmeted Marneus Calgar Honor Guard? Those are literally my all time favourite Space Marine Helmet.
I'm saying this to try and show that tastes can be as different as they could and at the end of the day GW is trying to earn all our money so they are gonna try and catter to everybody in some way or another. Some people should try and take GW design changes in a less personal and emotional way. Thats a problem I see made a lot of times in this forum.
Spoiler:
I mean, just look at these beauties. Its a crime that helmet and style of unit is reserved for Ultramarines.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/03/19 02:54:37
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote: Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
I honestly think it's Chapter dependant. That sort of embellishment would look ridiculous in a Raven Guard, Iron Hands or Raptors army. It's perfectly suited to like Ultramarine, BA and even Fists, however.
P.S.A. I won't read your posts if you break it into a million separate quotes and make an eyesore of it.
IMO the problem is that it's badly done embellishment and comes across as more "cheesy cartoon superhero" and less "roman ceremonial guard". Something more like this would have looked a lot better than the bird-face helmets:
Same thing with the rest of the model. Cloak? Not a bad idea, but the way it hangs around the shoulder pads and backpack looks really awkward. And TBH now that primaris marines are out the poor proportions of the old marines just stand out way too much.
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
LOL . Looks like a guy who had an accident here on his bike. He was going really fast through a crossing here and there is a pond near by. He got a duck jam itself in to his front visor. Dude broke both his arms and legs, cracked his skull and the girl with him died.
If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain.
Yeah the one of the captain is worse because he looks like he has a giant moustache
For me the worst part of the primaris chapter sprue is that the helmets couldnt be more generic. Theres no crested Ultramarine one or feathered DA one like in the old chapter sprues.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/19 10:38:27
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote: Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
I don't think cawl was thinking about personalizing every single Primaris he made. Which everyone seems to forget. Primaris were mass produced then put on a shelf (kinda like half our models am i right?) so of course they're missing iconic chapter embellishments
The winged Captain helmet isn't so bad - the only think I'd change would be that mouth grille - cover that with the chest of the eagle, and it looks great to me.
I'll also second that the older upgrade packs are better by miles than the Primaris exclusive ones. So much more actual specific things to those Chapters rather than minor sigils.
I mean. Just look at this. Fancy and beautifull helmets, chapter looking swords. Even the head, that I normally don't like, is actually one of the best ones, with that beard, and you can see it and say "Ok this is an ultramarine"
Spoiler:
And then you have... an auspex. An auspex?! What the feth GW?!
Spoiler:
I suppose some people can like the second one more because it is much mire "clean" and with less bling but... personally I don't think thats what an "upgrade" should looks like.
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote: Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
I think there has always been a bit of tension between those who like some of the grimdark techno-barbarian aspects of the space marines and those who just wish marines could be something more akin to an ultra-badass self insert character. Ever since 30k started coming out and fleshing out the story of the emperor and the primarchs, I think the single most common "custom chapter fluff" I have come across is "my space marines are super loyal to the emperor but they don't like the imperium and they know the emperor wasn't a god, they disavowed all forms of religious ignorance and struck out on their own!"
I can see where there would be a lot of appeal in space marines that abandon the religious trappings in favor of the modern military commando look so many find appealing. Do I personally find it pretty cringe-inducing? Yes. But your stuff is your stuff.
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
I honestly expect a codex primaris to come out next edition. I doube GW will drop classic marines in the next few editions (read a decade or more after 9th comes out) I think they will have a faction keyword to plug in as space wolves, blood angels, ultramarines etc.
as for the aesthetic. I like them, I also like classic marines and have no problem running them or seeing them side by side on the table. given how many recent sculpts the space wolves in particular have gotten (wulfin, flyer thing, thunderwolf cavalry etc.) I doubt GW does not want to keep getting money on these awesome kits.
as for the uniformity of primaris armament I think this just fits the Primaris being the starter army theme. no remembering mixed weapon profiles for the squads, they are more durable and forgiving to mistakes than normal marines. as a player grows they can get more mixed weapon profile units of classic marines or units and boom we have a army.
the_scotsman wrote: I think there has always been a bit of tension between those who like some of the grimdark techno-barbarian aspects of the space marines and those who just wish marines could be something more akin to an ultra-badass self insert character. Ever since 30k started coming out and fleshing out the story of the emperor and the primarchs, I think the single most common "custom chapter fluff" I have come across is "my space marines are super loyal to the emperor but they don't like the imperium and they know the emperor wasn't a god, they disavowed all forms of religious ignorance and struck out on their own!"
I can see where there would be a lot of appeal in space marines that abandon the religious trappings in favor of the modern military commando look so many find appealing. Do I personally find it pretty cringe-inducing? Yes. But your stuff is your stuff.
what about the canon chapters that actually are like that?
P.S.A. I won't read your posts if you break it into a million separate quotes and make an eyesore of it.
To be honest I have seen more people asking for things like Dark Angels having less religious bling and decorations (When thats their thing), and much less people asking for Ravenguard or Raptors to receive a ton of ornaments into their models or upgrade kits instead of their more canon tactical and simple look.
And I'll edit to add that I can absolutely understand when people like Space Wolves ask for a little less wolf and a little more viking, because as everything, even if I like bling , I can recognise when sometimes GW goes off the mark. Is just that have a higher tolerance and even liking for over decorations than some other player that thinks Tactical Marines are the epitome of a space marine.
And I like my tacticals, very much so, but if I can have a robed terminator with an hooded helmet and armed with one Cathedral-Shield and a Censer-Power Mace, I'll take that any day over a simple stormtrooper like marine.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/03/19 12:51:46
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote: Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
No doubt, no doubt. But if someone was playing Raptors, or like, loyalist Alpha Legion or something, I think the new Primaris kits in Shadowspear fit that perfectly right, while Vanguard Marines (but primaris) would look absolutely absurd for that aesthetic, no? Would you agree with that?
My point isn't that one aesthetic is better than the other, I'm saying the opposite - that I think both of them have their place.
P.S.A. I won't read your posts if you break it into a million separate quotes and make an eyesore of it.
Yeah, and I also like the more clean looks of primaris, specially because I think they match well with Ravenwing colours and iconography.
But to be honest is very hard for me to actively dislike something GW does. It can not extice me but in general I like every model they put out. The ugliest the better. Specially because I have found, even models that in photos are meh, in hand are much better
Yeah, I like Fantasy Minotaurs and Centurions. I have said it.
I think GW can make marines to catter to all tastes. Even with chaos marines you have the corrupted and mutated ones but if you prefer you can mix with horus heresy plastics
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote: Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
TBH my main hangup with primaris is how boring a list of them was when I tried writing one.
A unit of bolter guys.
A unit of plasma guys.
When before you could have a unit of 6, comprising 4 different miniature trypes, a cc sargeant, standard bolters, a heavy weapon, and a special weapon.
Additionally they dont include some of the best looking SM minis- terminators, and assualt marines, and replace them with far worse looking options. The intercessors look better, but the agressors and jumpy guys...really put me off.
To top it off, the fluff could have been handled better...impracticlly huge, novice, but immediatly replacing marines just seems so odd (along with the literally giant primarchs?) but GW did what they had to do.
Its just a bunch of little things. I would love to have tactical squads of primaris though even if I think they are a shade too big for the game in general.
I just wish GW would make melee Primaris that actually do something worthwhile (same goes for Marine melee in general TBH). I love how Primaris look, but they're just awful unless you want to build a shooting-focussed list, in which case why play Black Templars in the first place?
For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back.
NotVaughan wrote: TBH my main hangup with primaris is how boring a list of them was when I tried writing one.
A unit of bolter guys.
A unit of plasma guys.
When before you could have a unit of 6, comprising 4 different miniature trypes, a cc sargeant, standard bolters, a heavy weapon, and a special weapon.
Additionally they dont include some of the best looking SM minis- terminators, and assualt marines, and replace them with far worse looking options. The intercessors look better, but the agressors and jumpy guys...really put me off.
To top it off, the fluff could have been handled better...impracticlly huge, novice, but immediatly replacing marines just seems so odd (along with the literally giant primarchs?) but GW did what they had to do.
Its just a bunch of little things. I would love to have tactical squads of primaris though even if I think they are a shade too big for the game in general.
Except you need a unit of 10 to do that, and the specialization for each squad is better for unit performance.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
NotVaughan wrote: TBH my main hangup with primaris is how boring a list of them was when I tried writing one.
A unit of bolter guys.
A unit of plasma guys.
When before you could have a unit of 6, comprising 4 different miniature trypes, a cc sargeant, standard bolters, a heavy weapon, and a special weapon.
Additionally they dont include some of the best looking SM minis- terminators, and assualt marines, and replace them with far worse looking options. The intercessors look better, but the agressors and jumpy guys...really put me off.
To top it off, the fluff could have been handled better...impracticlly huge, novice, but immediatly replacing marines just seems so odd (along with the literally giant primarchs?) but GW did what they had to do.
Its just a bunch of little things. I would love to have tactical squads of primaris though even if I think they are a shade too big for the game in general.
Except you need a unit of 10 to do that, and the specialization for each squad is better for unit performance.
You used to be able to.
In any case, I can still have one squad with 4 different model types though. And then across 2 tactical squads I would have up to 7 different minature types. Rather than maybe 2.
Yes, specialisation is better for unit performance...but I'd rather have the option more variety in my toy soldiers?
the_scotsman wrote: I can see where there would be a lot of appeal in space marines that abandon the religious trappings in favor of the modern military commando look so many find appealing. Do I personally find it pretty cringe-inducing? Yes. But your stuff is your stuff.
I like having a bit of the more tactical appeal, but within certain boundaries. Raptors are about what I would consider as 'reasonable' as Marines need to be. They're zealots in their own way, their way of 'reverence' is a stoic dedication to mission accomplishment in a sort of pragmatic manner. Sort of fanatical in a way that is almost as weird as the Black Templars' religious zeal, but they're just obsessed with camo and kit more than purity seals and banners. Same sort of fanatic with different iconography and ritual gear- hell, I know people in real life that are like that.
Now, again- there's a limit. Space Marines running around with berets, combat knives and ammo pouches strapped to impractical parts of the armor, full ghillie suits on Intercessors, and third-party bits to make bolters look like suppressed M4's? No, I dislike this- just my preference, I think that's a bit too much. Deathwatch or Reiver styled harness straps with some grenades and mag pouches? Sure, that's cool.... but not to the point where it looks like a big pile of tactical gear strapped over a VW Bug with red eyes.
I can tolerate this a bit more on something like Raptors, but I admit to getting a bit irked when I see something like a bright yellow Imperial Fist wearing a Camo-Cloak cape with shiny gold cording, covered in combat webbing/harnesses and pouches, with a big glowing power sword. The Codex Astartes even says they can repaint their armor for their environment as long as they preserve their heraldry as much as possible (and even then, I guess they could probably subdue it with more subtle shades for the color).
It irks me that some people think "Covert Ops = Solid Snake Sneaking Mission". No, that's not how it should be for Space Marines (Except stuff like Scouts, and Phobos-Armor dudes)- in fact, that's rarely how actual covert ops work. They're usually loud, overwhelmingly violent, and fast- simply because the key is not to take the enemy completely unaware, but to take them when they are aware too late to react effectively- AKA, 'catch them with their pants down' rather than 'sneak in while he's sleeping'. The element of surprise doesn't require invisibility as often as it does speed and intensity.
It's like the difference between a hitman spending hours sneaking up on someone to shoot them in the back of the head with a silenced pistol in a dark alley, versus a hitman rushing out of an alleyway on New Year's day at Times Square to pop him twice in the chest and running like hell before anyone can figure out who did it and where they went. For the former, it'd work but it'd take a lot of work and a lot of luck with a lot of risk involved... the latter is still pretty risky, but with everything happening so fast and so sudden in a chaotic environment, no one had time to spot that one guy with everything happening, nor did they have time to see who it was once everyone started running and screaming.
There's just as much 'covert' advantage in sudden and unexpected mayhem as there is being silent and unseen and waiting for the right moment (which might not happen). My idea of 'covert operations with Space Marines' would involve them dropping in with guns blazing where they would be least expected to show up away from the main battle lines, or waiting for a week in an ambush to absolutely shred a convoy of heretic militia, or just outright wreaking obscene amounts of havoc on their enemy by outflanking them on a larger battlefield... all of this, and then bailing out before the enemy command can figure out what happened and call for reinforcements.
As far as the 'practical and tactical' Space Marines in homebrew chapters goes... I can tolerate them being "Kinda like the Raptors". But once someone tells me things like "they are allies with Tau and Eldar", "They hate the Inquisition/Ecclesiarchy/Imperium with a passion", or "They prefer to negotiate if possible"- then, I cringe. Yeah, I'm not gonna be a jerk and be rude or ridicule you in front of people, or ridicule you at all- your property, your money, you do what you want. But... let's just say I'm probably not gonna invite you to the narrative campaign. But, you know... I'll play a game against you, and maybe we'll have a little talk one day about your interpretation of the fluff and see if we can't... polish things up, while keeping elements you like.
I start to worry if the person is familiar enough with the lore to understand the fundamental truth behind Warhammer 40k: That by our standards, these people may all seem to be sociopaths that just ignorantly refuse to be reasonable- but once you consider the setting and the hard truth about everything the human race has to contend with just to survive in the Galaxy: 'Peace' is only an option if every side wants it, without a one-sided caveat favoring one and screwing the other. 'Reasonable' people would use 'reason', and that 'reason' makes it very clear that the Imperium MUST be what it is in order to keep our species alive, and the only hope the human race has is to annihilate every single threat or potential threat and once the smoke clears, perhaps sort civilization out and get back to where we were before the Age of Strife with enough knowledge to prevent it from happening again.
Others have said it better than I can, but yeah- I don't be a jerk to people about how they want to play their toys... but it's kinda like seeing a bright-eyed young man walk into a seedy house of ill repute and trying to start a sweet romance with the used-up hooker that just did a line of cocaine off a Smith & Wesson.
God knows I've seen worse things done with Space Marines -
"My Marines found out about Master Chief and emulate him!" -Guy with Master Chief third-party helmets on his Marines
"My Chapter is actually the lost second legion, and their Primarch was assassinated because the Emperor thought he was too powerful!" - Guy that claimed he played since 3rd edition even thoughhis army looked like someone sat down a pile of random bits from every single Space Marine/Chaos Marine kit, and had Michael J. Fox assemble them with sealing caulk and paint them with a toilet scrubber
"These guys used to be Chaos, but turned and joined the Imperium, that's why I'm using Chaos Marine models with White Scars tactics." - Guy that showed up to a tournament with the wrong Codex
"This company used to be Ultramarines, but they hated Bobby G when he came back and defected to join up with Deathwatch!" - Guy that put Deathwatch shoulderpads on the wrong shoulder of a bunch of Ultramarines that were still Blue.
"These are Dark Angels." - guy that played Dark Angels
Again, your toys- so you do whatever you want and just shine on, you shiny diamonds. I'm not gonna tell you what you can and can't do with them outside of rules, but I will tell you... probably a reason you're not playing the narrative campaigns.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/19 23:45:02
They look completely ridiculous in the best way, especially the guy with the goggles and the binoculars. They've got collapsing stocks, and what looks like a suppressor and a muzzle brake mounted simultaneously.
Like, the excessively tacticool aesthetic fits hand in hand with the whole genetically-engineering-superhuman thing. And like anything properly 40k, it's done beyond the point of reason [though they clearly need knives with attached bipods]
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/20 00:00:43
Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades!
Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote: Like, the excessively tacticool aesthetic fits hand in hand with the whole genetically-engineering-superhuman thing. And like anything properly 40k, it's done beyond the point of reason [though they clearly need knives with attached bipods]
Don't forget that you need a forward grip with an offset bayonet, and on that bayonet you need a taclight and a red dot laser. Also, just paint the whole damned Chapter in Kryptek camo.
To be honest I have seen more people asking for things like Dark Angels having less religious bling and decorations (When thats their thing), and much less people asking for Ravenguard or Raptors to receive a ton of ornaments into their models or upgrade kits instead of their more canon tactical and simple look.
I want all the robes and cowls for my Dark Angels. I personally really like their somewhat religious/catholic imagery which I also find fitting as they have their own internal inquisition getting people to repent.
To be honest, asking for less religious imagery on the Dark Angels is... extremely dumb. Like, the flowing robe armor is the only thing that meaningfully differentiates them from the main book Marines, what the hell else are you picking the army for if not for that aesthetic?
[1,750] Chaos Knights | 
[1,250] Thousand Sons | 
[1,000] Grey Knights | 40K editions: RT, 8, 9, 10 | 
7000 
