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 Grand.Master.Raziel wrote:

Bharring wrote:

Not all Marines who consort with Chaos are Veterans of the Long War.

GW really needs to write that Veterans of the Long War nonsense out of the fluff. It could be an upgrade for characters, but for basic units it's just absurd.

"Listen boy, I was there when the Legion broke with the False Emperor! I've been fighting the Imperial scum for ten thousand years?"
"And you're still just a bolter-toting member of a basic squad?"
"Er...yes."
"Kind of an underachiever, aren't you?"

He's just playing the long game. You know who gets targeted by assassins? Leaders and special weaponry holders. Who gets ignored? Basic Bolter dudes. Like Dark Eldar Chaos Marines play the long game for surviving.

 Grand.Master.Raziel wrote:

GW really needs to write that Veterans of the Long War nonsense out of the fluff. It could be an upgrade for characters, but for basic units it's just absurd.

VotLW should be more than that. It seems like it should almost be a unit, sort of like Chosen- but maybe even a mixed squad. Something like a Deathwatch Kill-Team with mixed units, maybe even Cat and Tart terminators.

A lot of posters seem to be glossing over how messed up time is in the Eye of Terror and other warp storms. While yes, in the real world 10k worth of time has passed, for a lot of CSM it's been far far shorter. I recall reading a short story where a group of HH vets went in and out and for them only a decade or two had passed yet out side it had been thousands of years. Between that and various other tech and tricks, it makes sense that there are a lot of HH traitors still knocking about.

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:

 Grand.Master.Raziel wrote:

GW really needs to write that Veterans of the Long War nonsense out of the fluff. It could be an upgrade for characters, but for basic units it's just absurd.

VotLW should be more than that. It seems like it should almost be a unit, sort of like Chosen- but maybe even a mixed squad. Something like a Deathwatch Kill-Team with mixed units, maybe even Cat and Tart terminators.

I think a vet squad upgrade where you can take all specials or something like that would work and they could have an aura or something.
troops within 3" of VOTLW ignores morale and and 6 to hit cause additional wounding rolls(not MW) @ normal save.

pm713 wrote:
He's just playing the long game. You know who gets targeted by assassins? Leaders and special weaponry holders. Who gets ignored? Basic Bolter dudes.

You mean, guys who in game always die first regardless of circumstances?

HoundsofDemos wrote:
A lot of posters seem to be glossing over how messed up time is in the Eye of Terror and other warp storms. While yes, in the real world 10k worth of time has passed, for a lot of CSM it's been far far shorter. I recall reading a short story where a group of HH vets went in and out and for them only a decade or two had passed yet out side it had been thousands of years. Between that and various other tech and tricks, it makes sense that there are a lot of HH traitors still knocking about.

Sure but it doesn't make any sense that those traitors be any more competent than Marines that aren't.

 SHUPPET wrote:

HoundsofDemos wrote:
A lot of posters seem to be glossing over how messed up time is in the Eye of Terror and other warp storms. While yes, in the real world 10k worth of time has passed, for a lot of CSM it's been far far shorter. I recall reading a short story where a group of HH vets went in and out and for them only a decade or two had passed yet out side it had been thousands of years. Between that and various other tech and tricks, it makes sense that there are a lot of HH traitors still knocking about.

Sure but it doesn't make any sense that those traitors be any more competent than Marines that aren't.

The 40k Mechanicum is way less competent than the 30k Mechanicum, they've forgotten how tracked vehicles work and have abandoned battle-automata in favour of half-baked joke robots that have to be manually directed in the field to not walk off cliffs.

That doesn't reflect upon Marine battle doctrine though.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:

HoundsofDemos wrote:
A lot of posters seem to be glossing over how messed up time is in the Eye of Terror and other warp storms. While yes, in the real world 10k worth of time has passed, for a lot of CSM it's been far far shorter. I recall reading a short story where a group of HH vets went in and out and for them only a decade or two had passed yet out side it had been thousands of years. Between that and various other tech and tricks, it makes sense that there are a lot of HH traitors still knocking about.

Sure but it doesn't make any sense that those traitors be any more competent than Marines that aren't.

The 40k Mechanicum is way less competent than the 30k Mechanicum, they've forgotten how tracked vehicles work and have abandoned battle-automata in favour of half-baked joke robots that have to be manually directed in the field to not walk off cliffs.

And given how the more automated something is, the more likely scrap code is going to be a PITA, I'm not sure that this is a sign of them being less competent.