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Hello.


Was reading the introduction story to the CSM codex, the story of Horus betraying the emperor for chaos and eventually killing the emperor and him self. Any way they mention different armies etc, but no mention of Nurgle. Just wondering why not, were they not apart of the heresye?



Bye.

Nurgle was definitely in the Heresy. In fact IIRC he's the one who got Horus turned in the start. But Nurgles main army is Death Guard who didn't get chaosy until the end I think.

pm713 wrote:
Nurgle was definitely in the Heresy. In fact IIRC he's the one who got Horus turned in the start. But Nurgles main army is Death Guard who didn't get chaosy until the end I think.

Oh they did say death guard. I never knew they were related. Also what do you mean they didn't get chaosy, what else could have they been? xenos?


Thank you.

The Heresy was a civil war during which Chaos got their hooks into a bunch of the Space Marines; before the Heresy the Death Guard were a loyal Legion like any other (in fact a loyalist Death Guard Captain named Nathaniel Garro was a key player in the origins of the Inquisition).

If you want to see more of the direct context around the Death Guard's fall to Chaos and their transformation into Plague Marines there's a novel entitled The Buried Dagger that focuses on it directly.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
The Heresy was a civil war during which Chaos got their hooks into a bunch of the Space Marines; before the Heresy the Death Guard were a loyal Legion like any other (in fact a loyalist Death Guard Captain named Nathaniel Garro was a key player in the origins of the Inquisition).

If you want to see more of the direct context around the Death Guard's fall to Chaos and their transformation into Plague Marines there's a novel entitled The Buried Dagger that focuses on it directly.

Oh so Death guard were loyal to the emperor before horus went nuts?

 Stormatious wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
The Heresy was a civil war during which Chaos got their hooks into a bunch of the Space Marines; before the Heresy the Death Guard were a loyal Legion like any other (in fact a loyalist Death Guard Captain named Nathaniel Garro was a key player in the origins of the Inquisition).

If you want to see more of the direct context around the Death Guard's fall to Chaos and their transformation into Plague Marines there's a novel entitled The Buried Dagger that focuses on it directly.

Oh so Death guard were loyal to the emperor before horus went nuts?

all the chaos marines where yes. a full of of them followed Horus into rebellion and where slowly (or swiftly in some cases) converted to chaos

BrianDavion wrote:

 Stormatious wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
The Heresy was a civil war during which Chaos got their hooks into a bunch of the Space Marines; before the Heresy the Death Guard were a loyal Legion like any other (in fact a loyalist Death Guard Captain named Nathaniel Garro was a key player in the origins of the Inquisition).

If you want to see more of the direct context around the Death Guard's fall to Chaos and their transformation into Plague Marines there's a novel entitled The Buried Dagger that focuses on it directly.

Oh so Death guard were loyal to the emperor before horus went nuts?

all the chaos marines where yes. a full of of them followed Horus into rebellion and where slowly (or swiftly in some cases) converted to chaos

When you say "hes" when referring to nurgle, i thought nurgle was a legion or army or what ever, not 1 person.


"Nurgle was definitely in the Heresy. In fact IIRC he's the one who got Horus turned in the start. But Nurgles main army is Death Guard who didn't get chaosy until the end I think."

Nurgle is a Chaos God.

https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Nurgle

https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Nurgle

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Nurgle

Kall3m0n wrote:
https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Nurgle

https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Nurgle

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Nurgle

Thanks, just wanted to ask a specific question here, but i am going to read about every thing else, its just the first thing i have ever read fully is the introduction lore in the CSM, so i was just wondering about that aspect before i continued reading more about 40k lore.


Thanks heaps.

if you are just starting out in the lore it can get confusing but if you get the chance, the horus heresy book series is a great read. It starts off with the story of Horus and his legion the Luna wolves when they were loyal and considered the best and details their descent into chaos.

4 chaos gods and Nurgle is the best ( I might be biased as I play Death Guard)

 Nithaniel wrote:
if you are just starting out in the lore it can get confusing but if you get the chance, the horus heresy book series is a great read. It starts off with the story of Horus and his legion the Luna wolves when they were loyal and considered the best and details their descent into chaos.

4 chaos gods and Nurgle is the best ( I might be biased as I play Death Guard)

Im going to jump on thisn thread if thats ok...
Id like to read up on my origins heresy stuff and posibly look at 30k one day as a game myself. I know the basics of the lore etc but as na eldar player i was more focused on us (which isint much)

Can you sugest whats a good starting title?
whats been ret-conned ? ie what I should avoid

i like to do my reading strictly chronologicaly where possible and i really dont know whats the earliest book i can read.
Something about how the emperor became the emperor would be the absolute start I guess..
any resource/book catalougue would be appreicated.

 Argive wrote:

 Nithaniel wrote:
if you are just starting out in the lore it can get confusing but if you get the chance, the horus heresy book series is a great read. It starts off with the story of Horus and his legion the Luna wolves when they were loyal and considered the best and details their descent into chaos.

4 chaos gods and Nurgle is the best ( I might be biased as I play Death Guard)

Im going to jump on thisn thread if thats ok...
Id like to read up on my origins heresy stuff and posibly look at 30k one day as a game myself. I know the basics of the lore etc but as na eldar player i was more focused on us (which isint much)

Can you sugest whats a good starting title?
whats been ret-conned ? ie what I should avoid

i like to do my reading strictly chronologicaly where possible and i really dont know whats the earliest book i can read.
Something about how the emperor became the emperor would be the absolute start I guess..
any resource/book catalougue would be appreicated.

Most BL novels pre-horus heresy were all set in the (then) current Time period of M41.999. The Horus Heresy novels then started (for better or for worse) to flesh out the skeletal framework of the Heresy narrative that had been laid down in the codexes and rulebooks previously.

A good place to start is the main rulebooks, particularly the 5th and 6th edition rulebooks as they had not yet been poisoned by this whole advancing the timeline nonsense. Then the 8th edition rulebook has a ton of lore to read, then I suppose you could read the Horus Heresy novels in published order (or find a curated list that culls out the crappy ones).

Alternatively, if you want to get into HH, the first three books (Horus Rising, False Gods, Galaxy in Flames) are a great starting point.

From there, you largely need to choose what plotlines you're interested in following, but all of it is "canon". There's very little that's been retconned (maybe Battle for the Abyss? It's pretty self-contained, and largely overshadowed by Know No Fear, which is, IMO, incredible).

The problem with reading fully chronologically is that it spoils later books that were written earlier. Some of the later books detail events that happen way before the first actual HH books, and I think that detracts from a lot of the first writings of the Heresy. I honestly think the best way is to go in published order where you can, and then follow the plotlines you're interested in.

For example, after doing the first 3 (I would also recommend getting Flight of the Eisenstein in there too, and why not - Fulgrim as well - into the first arc) which set up the opening moments of the Heresy, fall of Horus and battles of Istvaan III and V, you move between the plot lines that you want to know more on.

Cool thanks guys, appreciate it.



Off topic question - For me to understand chaos or to understand the rules and exactly what i need, do i need index books etc, or is all i need really the 8th CSM codex?, basically what do i need to start playing, do i really need to carry like 3 different books?

You need the Codex, the rulebook, Chapter Approved, and any relevant FAQs to have enough rules to play the game.

The Index is mostly superseded by the Codex; any options in the Index that weren't in the Codex are still valid, ex. Dark Eldar Archons can take Blasters because they could in the Index even though the option isn't printed in the Codex, but I don't know what Chaos gets out of it.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Alternatively, if you want to get into HH, the first three books (Horus Rising, False Gods, Galaxy in Flames) are a great starting point.

From there, you largely need to choose what plotlines you're interested in following, but all of it is "canon". There's very little that's been retconned (maybe Battle for the Abyss? It's pretty self-contained, and largely overshadowed by Know No Fear, which is, IMO, incredible).

The problem with reading fully chronologically is that it spoils later books that were written earlier. Some of the later books detail events that happen way before the first actual HH books, and I think that detracts from a lot of the first writings of the Heresy. I honestly think the best way is to go in published order where you can, and then follow the plotlines you're interested in.

For example, after doing the first 3 (I would also recommend getting Flight of the Eisenstein in there too, and why not - Fulgrim as well - into the first arc) which set up the opening moments of the Heresy, fall of Horus and battles of Istvaan III and V, you move between the plot lines that you want to know more on.

Sorry I should have made it clear, chronological by publish dates. As that makes most sense and I can get a similar experience to the people who have been following books from the start.
I used to love reading the 3rd ed Rule Book as a kid. Hmm havent considered the rulebooks as a good source material. So suppose picking up some BL books that were released around 3rded is what I need to look at.

From BL perspective, Horus Rising is one of the earliest ones?

.

 Argive wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Alternatively, if you want to get into HH, the first three books (Horus Rising, False Gods, Galaxy in Flames) are a great starting point.

From there, you largely need to choose what plotlines you're interested in following, but all of it is "canon". There's very little that's been retconned (maybe Battle for the Abyss? It's pretty self-contained, and largely overshadowed by Know No Fear, which is, IMO, incredible).

The problem with reading fully chronologically is that it spoils later books that were written earlier. Some of the later books detail events that happen way before the first actual HH books, and I think that detracts from a lot of the first writings of the Heresy. I honestly think the best way is to go in published order where you can, and then follow the plotlines you're interested in.

For example, after doing the first 3 (I would also recommend getting Flight of the Eisenstein in there too, and why not - Fulgrim as well - into the first arc) which set up the opening moments of the Heresy, fall of Horus and battles of Istvaan III and V, you move between the plot lines that you want to know more on.

Sorry I should have made it clear, chronological by publish dates. As that makes most sense and I can get a similar experience to the people who have been following books from the start.
I used to love reading the 3rd ed Rule Book as a kid. Hmm havent considered the rulebooks as a good source material. So suppose picking up some BL books that were released around 3rded is what I need to look at.

From BL perspective, Horus Rising is one of the earliest ones?

.

Yep, Horus Rising is the first in the Horus Heresy series and one of the early publications by Black Library (2006.. by the 4 gods has it been that long!?)

@Argive - If I remember correctly, the HH books are numbered, so if you read them in number order you'll be getting the same reading experience as people who were reading them as they were released.

Ok. Thanks peeps!

Keep it real.

I'd be inclined to throw in The First Heretic in there to flesh out the first 5 books of the HH. That's a pretty good read.