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Hello.

For a non hair sprayer user( air spray ), i can't figure out how to go about priming. So what i think i know is, white prime for wanting brighter base color, black for darker, but some people do colors more closely matching the base color, like for e.g nurgle green prime for green nurgles. Also what about doing the opposite and using black for a normally bright color base etc, what am i supposed to think of to determine what prime i use basically....Like if i wanted to paint a pale flesh color, would i want to prime black so when i base flesh color the recesses are slightly darker from black priming or what lol this is a messssssy post, hopefully you guys can get what im saying


Thank you.

I use spraycan primers, are you ruling those out or simply remarking that you don't have an airbrush?

I prime everything black. To do pale flesh I drybrush Ceramite White, go over with AP Corpse Pale and then a thinned wash of Druchii Violet.

 Excommunicatus wrote:
I use spraycan primers, are you ruling those out or simply remarking that you don't have an airbrush?

I prime everything black. To do pale flesh I drybrush Ceramite White, go over with AP Corpse Pale and then a thinned wash of Druchii Violet.

Yeah i dont have a airbrush, asking this question based on using paint brush, but that doesn't mean i don't want to know how to utilize can spray primer if it could make up majority of the base color surface with out me hand brushing it.


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 Stormatious wrote:

 Excommunicatus wrote:
I use spraycan primers, are you ruling those out or simply remarking that you don't have an airbrush?

I prime everything black. To do pale flesh I drybrush Ceramite White, go over with AP Corpse Pale and then a thinned wash of Druchii Violet.

Yeah i dont have a airbrush, asking this question based on using paint brush, but that doesn't mean i don't want to know how to utilize can spray primer if it could make up majority of the base color surface with out me hand brushing it.

Could you please* explain why you prime every thing black, including fleesh.


Thank you.

I prime everything black mostly because I am lazy and do not care for painting, so drybrushing white over black then adding thinned colours which allow that contrast to show through is how I achieve maximum result with minimum effort.

So, Army Painter has a range of spray-primers that match with their bottled paints, but I buy my primer from Wal-Mart. I know people in Britain who buy it from an auto store called Halfords. I've seen others recommend a brand called Krylon. GW used to sell a Chaos Black spray, don't know if they still do but honestly it was very expensive for what it was.

I have no experience with whichever Antipode that flag represents, so I can't be specific, sorry.

So for GUO, for a pale dirty sort of flesh look. I dont know what to do, theres so many options i think. So i could prime it in a light color and wash dark over that so all the folds are shaded. Or prime black and dry brush flesh color... i dont know

Id always suggest spray priming whateevr the base colour of your minatures is. E.G. Nurgle - greesn, Blood ANgels red. As that is your priming and your base colour down in one step.

Spray cans are the way to do this especialy if you are looking to paint an entire army. Im afraid I got no advice for priming with a brush.

Once you have your base colour down just apply a wash and ads a layer of ighlight /multiple highlights (depending on how far you are willing to go).
I go with black perosnaly for my scheme but thats mainly because my scheme is mainly black. But i will use green for rangers, blue for dire avengers etc.

I prime my models with either grey or black, depending on the colours I am using. I use automotive primer from my local Halfords, as its very good quality and it's only £8 a can for 500ml, not too shabby!

However, for terrain or massive batch painting I will use a colour spray over the primer for the simple fact it saves time. Did this method to help a friend paint 50+ pox walkers for a tournament in around a week.

 Argive wrote:
Id always suggest spray priming whateevr the base colour of your minatures is. E.G. Nurgle - greesn, Blood ANgels red. As that is your priming and your base colour down in one step.

Spray cans are the way to do this especialy if you are looking to paint an entire army. Im afraid I got no advice for priming with a brush.

Once you have your base colour down just apply a wash and ads a layer of ighlight /multiple highlights (depending on how far you are willing to go).
I go with black perosnaly for my scheme but thats mainly because my scheme is mainly black. But i will use green for rangers, blue for dire avengers etc.

Thanks man. Ill have a think about it.


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So what about this. Prime a dark flesh color, then maybe nuln wash to dirty and shade it, then highlights. Or Prime black then paint over with a flesh color then wash etc, can some one help me explain why i would choose one over the other?

Prime grey for everything. You can do colour priming if you want but I don't think it really adds anything.

 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
Prime grey for everything. You can do colour priming if you want but I don't think it really adds anything.

But why do you say that? thanks.

Why do that over what i just said above your post?

I prime grey using a Halfords spray unless I have a specific colour in mind then I may use a colour primer from Army Painter or similar. For example, I have some Khorne daemons for painting soon; they will be primed red. Similarly, I have some Orks that will get primed Daemonic Yellow in prep for following wash/shade.

Edited...


So why not prime, then base, and wash over that instead of utilizing primer as a base and washing over that? like whats the core reason?

Hmmm thats too difficult to answer without further context. Id say it depends entirely on how much flesh the minature has. Can you post a picture of the minature you are looking to paint?

For flesh you could do brown spray, nuln oil wash and highlight up using lighter browns building up to a fleshy colour.

Or you could go gray primer and seraphim sepia wash followed by add highlights.

Its difficult to answer and it depends on the sort of finish you are after and if it works in context of the minature. An elf warrior will have different flesh to a barbarian/ork

Id sugest just trying out different methods on some of your minis. Theres no substitute for trial and error/experiance bud. Dont worry about mucking up. You can always strip if absolutely realy need to.

FWIW, I also don't think colour priming really adds anything.

I did up about 4k of Blood Angels a few years ago using Army Painter's Pure Red; you still have to go back over it with a brush.

It doesn't hurt, except your wallet, it just doesn't really do anything, either.

 Argive wrote:
Hmmm thats too difficult to answer without further context. Id say it depends entirely on how much flesh the minature has. Can you post a picture of the minature you are looking to paint?

For flesh you could do brown spray, nuln oil wash and highlight up using lighter browns building up to a fleshy colour.

Or you could go gray primer and seraphim sepia wash followed by add highlights.

Its difficult to answer and it depends on the sort of finish you are after and if it works in context of the minature. An elf warrior will have different flesh to a barbarian/ork

Id sugest just trying out different methods on some of your minis. Theres no substitute for trial and error/experiance bud. Dont worry about mucking up. You can always strip if absolutely realy need to.

Sorry i screwed up the question you replied to and edited it not realizing you had replied to it already so i stuffed your reply up, sorry about that.



edit - I have a idea what ill do now. Thanks for all the help









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So most spray cans are actually primers and there's not really such a thing as base spray cans? if this is true, what about air sprays, if some one says they are priming with air spray, does this mean the actual paint is called a primer, or is primer for them a word used to describe the first layer of paint on the model?

Someone correct me but this is the way I understand terminology:

1. Priming - Yes this called priming because is the first layer of paint on plastic. So you are priming your minature to be able to apply subsuquent paint layers. If you tried applying thinned layers of paint on plastic off the bat you'd not have a good time. And yes this is done with a spray can or airbrush as its the quickest way and the best way to ensure a uniform shade across your models.

2. Base painting - This is the first layer of paint thats the main colour of largest areas of the minature I.E. Red for blood angels. So if you prime red, for say blood angels, you are priming AND base painting at the same time. It does not mean that your primer colour HAS to be the same as the base colour. It just ndepends on what you are painting and personal prefernace. There is no right or wrong way in this regards. Some people always prime black, some people always prime white grey etc. Some people change depending on the scheme and model.

Some people always prime black because if you add layers of paint. Any black layers youve missed tend to be in hard to reach places so because they black they wont stick out as will look like part of the shade for example. But caveat being it is situational.
Consider scheme... If you are painting yellow or blue and you prime black you will have to do a lot of layers to get the yellow to go on the black. Light colours over black colours and vice versa tends to involve more work..
Not sure hopw much reserach you have done but there are some good youtubers that are great at showing the basic concepts.

this guy helped me out a a ton btw.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10vmneuWXlg&list=PLr_Hjio0Stcj3ObjY-AHY8A3rInxGh8_e

Just try out different schemes, techiniques and find what works for you. Good luck.

 Stormatious wrote:
So for GUO, for a pale dirty sort of flesh look. I dont know what to do, theres so many options i think. So i could prime it in a light color and wash dark over that so all the folds are shaded. Or prime black and dry brush flesh color... i dont know

Well, at a really basic level - do you prefer doing washes or doing drybrushing? They are basically different routes to get to the same ultimate place.

For a Great Unclean One, I'd say that washes over a light primer would probably be the way to go. They will flow nicely into all the skin folds and should give you a nice graduated effect. Dry-brushing tends to look grainy, which isn't so suitable for skin. Plus it's quicker to paint a wash all over a GUO than it is to drybrush him all over.

 Argive wrote:
Someone correct me but this is the way I understand terminology:

1. Priming - Yes this called priming because is the first layer of paint on plastic. So you are priming your minature to be able to apply subsuquent paint layers. If you tried applying thinned layers of paint on plastic off the bat you'd not have a good time,

2. Base painting - This is the first layer of paint thats the main colour of largest areas of the minature I.E. Red for blood angels. So if you prime red, for say blood angels, you are priming AND base painting at the same time. It does not mean that your primer colour HAS to be the same as the base colour. It just ndepends on what you are painting and personal prefernace. There is no right or wrong way in this regards. Some people always prime black, some people always prime white grey etc. Some people change depending on the scheme and model.

Consider scheem. If you are painting yellow or blue and you prime black you will have to do a lot of layers to get the yellow to go on the black. Light colours over black colours.
Not sure hopw much reserach you have done but there are some good youtubers that are great at showing the basic concepts.

this guy helped me out a a ton.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10vmneuWXlg&list=PLr_Hjio0Stcj3ObjY-AHY8A3rInxGh8_e

Awesome thanks. But alot of people go over most of the primed area with either restoring after wash or another shade. What about if i wanted to paint a black rhino with no air spray, and paint it where basicly the whole thing is the black color i primed it with using a spray can, meaning most areas are not going to be painted over with any other colors since i would be highlighting edges with a paint brush and leaving black areas as is, wouldn't it make sense for me to just spray it with spray can the black color i want instead of hand brushing it on. I know hand brushing means i can fix mistakes, but mistakes would be minimal and if i sprayed the whole thing instead of brushing i would get a nicer finish, and also i would get regular paint that matches the spray can as best as i can for fixing mistakes. Is there any thing that doesn't make sense about this, because i know when i touch some thing i have primed i usualy get some of it on my fingures, so mabye that would be the main reason not to have it used as so much of the surface area of the tank and instead air spray it or hand brush..


Thanks heaps

Yeah I dont follow. If your tank is going to be black. SPray it black man. If you do need to touch up some details you just use straight up abadon black(or equivalant). Yes technicaly it does give a slightly different finish when you brush on a black over a sprayed black. But if you apply thin layers to cover your mistakes and if its tiny areas you really will not be able to notice. I dont bother. I just spray black and touch up with black on any mistakes and I dont feel its noticable.

If I was entering a golden deamon then maybe.

I prime in only black or white (in my case armoury or army coat primer, although I too have had good luck with hardware store auto primers) I only use black or white to keep the number of spray cans to a minimum, no other reason. White if my predominant color is lighter, black, well, you get it. Most models I prime have a minimum of flesh (just faces and arms). If I had a miniature that was majority flesh, I would prime white, use a watered coat of dark brown, then highlight up with lighter coats. I use Agrax Earthshade as my wash, but this could vary.
I am not the greatest painter, but here's some samples of my results. Maybe they might help.

These bullgrynns were primed black to help the bronze and blue. The flesh is coats of brown built up:



Here are some Sisters primed white because I was trying to do NMM.

 Argive wrote:
Yeah I dont follow. If your tank is going to be black. SPray it black man. If you do need to touch up some details you just use straight up abadon black(or equivalant). Yes technicaly it does give a slightly different finish when you brush on a black over a sprayed black. But if you apply thin layers to cover your mistakes and if its tiny areas you really will not be able to notice. I dont bother. I just spray black and touch up with black on any mistakes and I dont feel its noticable.

If I was entering a golden deamon then maybe.

Lol, iv never been able to explain this question properly and usually no one understands lol, but i think you get it with your answer. For some reason when i first started all the tanks i painted, i primed black then painted completly over it again with black...was alot more clueless then compared to now, but i did it because i thought the primer would just be so paint has some thing to stick to, and since i was painting black i should prime black, then base again black since if i made mistakes i could fix them with out it being obvious, but after you and others explaining, i should have just left it with the primer since i only highlight the very edges, plus my paint job was gak since it was first time handling brush.

Any way i just want to know for future reference thanks.

For traditional Nurgle colors, ie green, I base coated/primed all of my models with Rustoleum Camouflage Green spray paint. It's formulated for plastics and while not a true primer it dries ultra flat, making it easier to brush other paints onto it.

I've read lots of threads discussing base coats and primers and I will always use automotive primers and the occasional flat paint. For the cost of one can of GW Chaos Black I can buy 4 cans of Krylon or Rustoleum Black in either matte, satin, or gloss and I have never had issue. I live in Mn, I've used Krylon primer in sub-zero weather without issue.

Recently though I've discovered Stynylrez airbrush primer, loving it.

I once went into a local GW shop and bought a can of white spray. The Chap int eh shop asked me what I am painting, as they are clearly asked to do to everyone, and I responded with Skaven. His look told me with no uncertainty that he thought I was insane priming gritty, dark, primarily brown models in white.

I prime pretty much everything in white. Unless it is literally 99% another colour (like space marines for example) I find that it is the easiest colour to paint over and helps the colours to pop. Even dark things like skaven clanrats have pale robes, red armour, edge highlights on weapons, all of which are way easier to paint from a pale base.

Something like ultramarines I might use a blue base to save time, or skeletons I might use a bone spray, as all the other details are likely to be darker anyway.

I personally like the army painter sprays

A lot of it depends on your painting style and the colour scheme you are going for. There is no right or wrong and to claim otherwise is being disingenuous - it comes down largely to personal preference.

And speaking of personal preference, I like to use grey to prime, aside from times where I may use a specific Army Painter colour, because grey is quite a good combination of the benefits of white primer (easy to paint over) and black primer (doesn't overbrighten colours like white can). Grey is the best of both worlds I find plus I can get a large spray can of the stuff from Halfords for a good price.

 filbert wrote:
A lot of it depends on your painting style and the colour scheme you are going for. There is no right or wrong and to claim otherwise is being disingenuous - it comes down largely to personal preference.

And speaking of personal preference, I like to use grey to prime, aside from times where I may use a specific Army Painter colour, because grey is quite a good combination of the benefits of white primer (easy to paint over) and black primer (doesn't overbrighten colours like white can). Grey is the best of both worlds I find plus I can get a large spray can of the stuff from Halfords for a good price.

Seconding on grey primer.

For models that are overall dark color scheme, I like to use a black primer so I get a nice even black all over including the nooks, then finish with a neutral angle with grey. This gives me a nice neutral tone for light colors to grab on to while eliminating the need to go back with black paint for those nooks.

thirded on grey primer. I use grey for everything. even black models, which I will base black over the grey primer.

Completely disagree on priming white. Absolutely awful to paint over. Nothing is that bright in real life, so unless you want cartoony coloured miniatures, stick with grey. Any areas that need to be brighter can be made so using your layering in later stages.

Thanks every one.


I still have some more questions so ill just ask on this thread if that's cool.

So, does any one think you could do a decent job with only lets say 5 or 6 different paints and mixing them to create the highlights instead of buying 29 separate paints? Like do you think i could still get a nice overall finished look just by doing that?

Like couldn't i use just white and mix that in to my base's and do it like that for all highlights lol? thanks


Thanks heaps.



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 Excommunicatus wrote:
I use spraycan primers, are you ruling those out or simply remarking that you don't have an airbrush?

I prime everything black. To do pale flesh I drybrush Ceramite White, go over with AP Corpse Pale and then a thinned wash of Druchii Violet.

'


Wait, so you dry brush it white, then dry brush again with corpse pale? or what?, because wouldn't it be better to do corpse pale first since its darker, then the white over that? or do you dry brush the white over the black primer, then paint over whole mini with corpse pale?

Thank you.

the white drybrush I assume is a sort of preshade, which the corpse pale goes over the top of in a thin layer. the contrast between the light and dark underneath will help shade the model.

You can absolutely use a minimum amount of paints for good results.

5 is the minimum really.. red, blue, yellow, black and white. when I paint WW2 bomber jackets these are the only colours I use. you can make every colour you need from those, and its good to improve your skills using minimum colours.


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although as an addition I wouldnt add white to your red to make highlights as, as I'm sure youre aware, red + white = pink.

So what you want to do is mix a flesh tone. red+yellow+white (2,2,1) then use this to mix into your reds for highlight tones.

 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
the white dry brush I assume is a sort of preshade, which the corpse pale goes over the top of in a thin layer. the contrast between the light and dark underneath will help shade the model.

You can absolutely use a minimum amount of paints for good results.

5 is the minimum really.. red, blue, yellow, black and white. when I paint WW2 bomber jackets these are the only colors I use. you can make every co lour you need from those, and its good to improve your skills using minimum colours.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
although as an addition I wouldn't add white to your red to make highlights as, as I'm sure your aware, red + white = pink.

So what you want to do is mix a flesh tone. red+yellow+white (2,2,1) then use this to mix into your reds for highlight tones.

Oh yeah that makes sense. Couldn't he also just prime black, then do a white prime with out hitting the recess's where the black and get the same effect hes trying to get?


Any way thanks so much queen and every one. I cant wait to get started, not sure when that is because i still need to buy some things, but wont be far off.



Edit - OFF TOPIC QUESTION - Just quickly, when using last stage highlight, should you only do the highest edges where you are imagining the light is coming from, or should you do all the highest edges in all areas like for e.g the back of a model and the front.

Thanks

One thing that often gets missed is that primer is not just a coloured base coat - a true primer is not a normal paint, it's specially formulated to stick (or 'bite') to the underlying material, and to provide a good surface for subsequent layers of paint to stick to. It's an important stage in getting a smooth, durable paint finish. I've always been a bit suspicious of the coloured 'primers' marketed at wargamers because I suspect that in some cases they're just cans of coloured spray paint. They help the painting process because they do give you a good coating over the model that will take brush painting much better than the bare model would, but they won't have quite the same benefits as a dedicated primer. That's why I always use an auto primer as the first layer on any model. If I want to use a coloured spray for a quick base coat, I'll always prime the mini with auto primer first, and then use the coloured spray as a basecoat on top of that. Most primers don't come in a wide range of colours, because colour isn't the point - I usually see auto primers in black, grey or white for example. I usually use grey. White can lead to a model that's too bright, and black takes a long time to layer up if you want to paint some parts of the model in light colours like white or yellow. Grey is a nice middle ground.

You can absolutely paint with a minimum number of colours and mix all the extra colours you need. The main downside that I see is if you want to have a uniform colour across an army, you'll either need to mix up a huge batch of your colours and bottle them, or else get really good at mixing the exact same shade every time - otherwise you'll have slightly different colours on each group of models.

For where you highlight - there's no one fixed way of doing it. Pick a style you want and run with it. The standard GW studio style is to highlight every raised edge because it emphasises the detail on the model, though it can start to look a bit cartoony if you're heavy handed with it. If instead you pick a direction the light source is coming from and paint your highlights based on that, you may need to think a bit more about the process and some areas of the model that are lacking highlights might lose some contrast, but you'll get a more realistic look overall if you do it well.