Switch Theme:

What happens when renegade astartes surrender/are captured? -Homebrew help  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




I'm writing a bit of homebrew and I need some help with a minor piece of lore.

The idea is a single Word Bearer was left behind on a minor Xeno world before monarchia during the great crusade and missed out on the entire horus heresy. He's eventually rediscovered my ultramarines (and the story gets more depressing from there) but I'm not exactly sure what the Ultramarines would do after interrogating him besides putting a bolt through his head. I have ideas from where to take the story from there, but this bit is tripping me up.

I don't think Astartes ships have brigs but I could be mistaken. I know Garro was taken to the Somnus Citadel but that was might have been more due to Malcador's orders. I know that chapters surrendered during the badab war, but I can't remember if they were incarcerated in any way or had their wargear taken... any information would be wonderful.
   
Made in gb
Horrific Hive Tyrant





Generally, if they're absolutely certain they aren't heretical, they'll be absorbed into an existing chapter and have the records of their lineage 'lost'.
   
Made in gb
Nasty Nob





Dorset, England

Taking the Badab war as an example, they might escape death by offering to embark on a penitant crusade against the enemies of man.
   
Made in nl
Longtime Dakkanaut





Brigs might exist but keeping an Astartes imprisoned is no easy feat considering their strength and the whole spitting acid thing.

Even if your Word Bearer missed out on the heresy and was an actual loyalist there is no reason for someone to take the risk. Safer to just put a bolt in their skull.

Remember your talking about a civilisation that sends entire armies to death camps because they encountered chaos and will put whole worlds to the torch.

Ofcourse your background is your own and you can do whatever you want.

You can have the Word Bearer save the Ultramarines from some big fight, leading the captain or whatever to spare him to repay a life debt.
   
Made in nz
Trigger-Happy Baal Predator Pilot



New Zealand

Black Shields in the Deathwatch.
   
Made in gb
Battleship Captain




Tygre wrote:
Black Shields in the Deathwatch.


Whilst true, it depends when it is - the Deathwatch doesn't come into being until the War of the Beast, over a thousand years after the heresy.

Termagants expended for the Hive Mind: ~2835
 
   
Made in us
Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter







There may have been some kind of proto-Deathwatch blackshields within/working for the Inquisition along the lines of Garro's Knights-Errant before the Deathwatch formally came into being.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
blue cultist wrote:
...I don't think Astartes ships have brigs but I could be mistaken. I know Garro was taken to the Somnus Citadel but that was might have been more due to Malcador's orders. I know that chapters surrendered during the badab war, but I can't remember if they were incarcerated in any way or had their wargear taken... any information would be wonderful.


Not sure why an Astartes ship wouldn't have a brig. The Imperium may be characterized by callous disregard for human life on a grand scale but that doesn't mean they don't bother to have the facilities to take prisoners; we know that there are lesser sentences than death because penal companies and servitors exist. Those may be pretty close to death but they require you to transport people intact from their place of offense to their place of punishment.

I have no direct sources here and applying logic to the 41st Millennium isn't always a winning proposition but I'd expect any ship to have some kind of general-use brig for the crew/other prisoners and some smaller number of reinforced containment cells for putting Astartes, big abhumans, or other big strong folks in (none of this original Star Trek nonsense where the Enterprise doesn't have the equipment to keep Spock contained if he goes crazy).

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/24 06:39:41


Balanced Game: Noun. A game in which all options and choices are worth using.
Homebrew oldhammer project: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/790996.page#10896267
Meridian: Necromunda-based 40k skirmish: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/795374.page 
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





If marine is from recently renegaded chapter might be able to get penance crusade. But any force associated with chaos for long is in for torture and death. Original 9 would fall on these

2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Halandri

One of the plot points will be whether or not the marine is corrupted.

While your marine may be from way before the Heresy, and didn't take part in it, you must consider the seeds of the heresy were planted far back, and there may be seeds within this character which are yet to germinate...

I'd be tempted to have some senior Ultramarines fall out over what to do with the marine, and possibly come to an agreement to ship him off to a specialist on non-heretical Traitor Legionnaires such as Garro.
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut







 AnomanderRake wrote:
The Imperium may be characterized by callous disregard for human life on a grand scale but that doesn't mean they don't bother to have the facilities to take prisoners; we know that there are lesser sentences than death because penal companies and servitors exist. Those may be pretty close to death but they require you to transport people intact from their place of offense to their place of punishment.

I have no direct sources here and applying logic to the 41st Millennium isn't always a winning proposition but I'd expect any ship to have some kind of general-use brig for the crew/other prisoners and some smaller number of reinforced containment cells for putting Astartes, big abhumans, or other big strong folks in (none of this original Star Trek nonsense where the Enterprise doesn't have the equipment to keep Spock contained if he goes crazy).


The troop ship in the first Ciaphas Cain book has its brig referenced, so they certainly exist in some vessels.

2021-4 Plog - Here we go again... - my fifth attempt at a Dakka PLOG

My Pile of Potential - updates ongoing...

Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.


 Kanluwen wrote:
This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.

Confirmation of why no-one should listen to Kanluwen when it comes to the IG - he doesn't want the IG, he want's Kan's New Model Army...

tneva82 wrote:
You aren't even trying ty pretend for honest arqument. Open bad faith trolling.
- No reason to keep this here, unless people want to use it for something... 
   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins





Tacoma, WA, USA

I find it rather inconceivable that any Astartes ship would not have a brig. Not that they need them for their own ranks, but there is too much tactical value in captives to not have a place to put them. And this is not even considering Blood Angels and Dark Angels who such as heck have cells to keep Astartes in.

As for non-Astartes ships, you need a brig for misbehaving crew members along with captures enemies. You can't just shoot your crew over every infraction of the rules.
   
Made in us
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer




Tampa, FL

I think, but not sure, that if it was something where they were not involved in the heresy, they would be interrogated (possibly with torture) and if it's determined that they weren't corrupted they would be incorporated into some other chapter, and all parts of their past erased. Possibly Deathwatch or something like that. I'm not sure if the Imperium has ways to memory wipe but if they do, they'd likely use that.

If they have any thought he's corrupted, it's bolter to the head or imprisoned with torture if they think he has information (see: Khayon).

I think there has been mention of a Luna Wolves force that popped out from the warp or something and completely skipped the Heresy and wondered just what the heck happened. Nothing says what became of them but I don't think the Imperium would just kill a company of Marines based on that alone, although they certainly would not have let them stay Luna Wolves.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/24 16:48:50


- Wayne
Formerly WayneTheGame 
   
Made in us
Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter







Wayniac wrote:
I'm not sure if the Imperium has ways to memory wipe but if they do, they'd likely use that.


Oh, definitely. It's integral to the process of becoming a Grey Knight.

Balanced Game: Noun. A game in which all options and choices are worth using.
Homebrew oldhammer project: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/790996.page#10896267
Meridian: Necromunda-based 40k skirmish: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/795374.page 
   
Made in us
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer




Tampa, FL

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Wayniac wrote:
I'm not sure if the Imperium has ways to memory wipe but if they do, they'd likely use that.


Oh, definitely. It's integral to the process of becoming a Grey Knight.


Then that's probably what they do. Mind wipe and tell them that they're Brother So-and-so of the Ultramarines, give them a made up identity basically.

- Wayne
Formerly WayneTheGame 
   
Made in us
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot






Iowa

Wayniac wrote:
 AnomanderRake wrote:
Wayniac wrote:
I'm not sure if the Imperium has ways to memory wipe but if they do, they'd likely use that.


Oh, definitely. It's integral to the process of becoming a Grey Knight.


Then that's probably what they do. Mind wipe and tell them that they're Brother So-and-so of the Ultramarines, give them a made up identity basically.

Imperium definitely has memory wipe or cleansing. Every Tempestus Scion gets one.

If the truth can destroy it, then it deserves to be destroyed. 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




UK

The errant Marines serve a term with the Marines Penitent. Obligated to scrub their armour back to bare ceramite, they fight under no banner until their penance is done. Their return to a Chapter is unremarked, and the fault forgotten. But be assured, they will never again ‘Fall to Floss’.
   
Made in gb
Stern Iron Priest with Thrall Bodyguard



UK

Pretty sure word bearers are kill on sight for ultramarines.

Certainly in vulkan lives the word bearer sniper that renounces lorgar and plans to kill him is sentenced to death by rowboat when he's captured.
   
Made in gb
Norn Queen






 alextroy wrote:
You can't just shoot your crew over every infraction of the rules.
A lot of Inquisitors would disagree.
   
Made in us
Hellish Haemonculus






Boskydell, IL

There's a short story about exactly this.

It's called 'Trial of the Mantis Warriors,' by C.S. Goto, and it's one of my favorite 40k short stories.

Welcome to the Freakshow!

(Leadership-shenanigans for Eldar of all types.) 
   
Made in gb
Norn Queen






 Jimsolo wrote:
There's a short story about exactly this.

It's called 'Trial of the Mantis Warriors,' by C.S. Goto, and it's one of my favorite 40k short stories.
Did you just unironically reccomend a C.S. "Back-flipping from a Razorback while firing Multilasers" Goto?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/24 20:34:44


 
   
Made in us
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer




Tampa, FL

 BaconCatBug wrote:
 Jimsolo wrote:
There's a short story about exactly this.

It's called 'Trial of the Mantis Warriors,' by C.S. Goto, and it's one of my favorite 40k short stories.
Did you just unironically reccomend a C.S. "Back-flipping from a Razorback while firing Multilasers" Goto?


Trial of the Mantis Warriors wasn't that bad though, at least to me.

- Wayne
Formerly WayneTheGame 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




Thanks to everyone, this put things into perspective.

Here's what I went with for those interested:
After the Ultramarines pick him up they interrogate him but feel cheated that this Word Bearer is a ghost of the crusade and not a blood drenched traitor they can vent their wrath upon without remorse. They hold him, moving to engage a marauding force of Word Bearers plundering a less-than-adequately defended world for supplies and slaves as they're being pushed back to the Eye of Terror. Our Word Bearer (named Elias Eretoth) pleads with the captain to join the battle, seeing these astartes not as his brothers but as twisted mockeries of the noble men they were. He fights with the ultramarines, earning their respect as he fights on despite being gravely wounded and 'saving' the souls trapped within these twisted marines with boltgun chain sword and, ironically, shouting memorized verses of the Lectitio Divinitatus. The battle ends with only a handful the traitors escaping, and Elias pledging to join the captain's mission so he may continue to atone for his legion's failure and to continue to avenge brothers he views as rabid dogs who need to be put down.

... that's when rowboat girlyman shows up with his honor guard to check in on this smurf captain, and upon seeing Elias the honor guard shoot him dead and leave his body to rot with his traitorous brothers on a Emperor-forsaken moon. Girlyman waves off the captain's objections to such rash action, saying Elias would have betrayed the Ultramarines sooner or later as 'there is no loyal son of Lorgar.'

I was going for depressing, and it went there.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






The ruins of the Palace of Thorns

More likely they'd land up as one of Malcador's pet "Knights Errant" rather than in another chapter.

Though guards may sleep and ships may lay at anchor, our foes know full well that big guns never tire.

Posting as Fifty_Painting on Instagram.

My blog - almost 40 pages of Badab War, Eldar, undead and other assorted projects 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 BaconCatBug wrote:
 Jimsolo wrote:
There's a short story about exactly this.

It's called 'Trial of the Mantis Warriors,' by C.S. Goto, and it's one of my favorite 40k short stories.
Did you just unironically reccomend a C.S. "Back-flipping from a Razorback while firing Multilasers" Goto?


Broken clock is right twice a day?
   
Made in us
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer




Tampa, FL

blue cultist wrote:
Thanks to everyone, this put things into perspective.

Here's what I went with for those interested:
After the Ultramarines pick him up they interrogate him but feel cheated that this Word Bearer is a ghost of the crusade and not a blood drenched traitor they can vent their wrath upon without remorse. They hold him, moving to engage a marauding force of Word Bearers plundering a less-than-adequately defended world for supplies and slaves as they're being pushed back to the Eye of Terror. Our Word Bearer (named Elias Eretoth) pleads with the captain to join the battle, seeing these astartes not as his brothers but as twisted mockeries of the noble men they were. He fights with the ultramarines, earning their respect as he fights on despite being gravely wounded and 'saving' the souls trapped within these twisted marines with boltgun chain sword and, ironically, shouting memorized verses of the Lectitio Divinitatus. The battle ends with only a handful the traitors escaping, and Elias pledging to join the captain's mission so he may continue to atone for his legion's failure and to continue to avenge brothers he views as rabid dogs who need to be put down.

... that's when rowboat girlyman shows up with his honor guard to check in on this smurf captain, and upon seeing Elias the honor guard shoot him dead and leave his body to rot with his traitorous brothers on a Emperor-forsaken moon. Girlyman waves off the captain's objections to such rash action, saying Elias would have betrayed the Ultramarines sooner or later as 'there is no loyal son of Lorgar.'

I was going for depressing, and it went there.


Grim dark

- Wayne
Formerly WayneTheGame 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka




blue cultist wrote:
Thanks to everyone, this put things into perspective.

Here's what I went with for those interested:
After the Ultramarines pick him up they interrogate him but feel cheated that this Word Bearer is a ghost of the crusade and not a blood drenched traitor they can vent their wrath upon without remorse. They hold him, moving to engage a marauding force of Word Bearers plundering a less-than-adequately defended world for supplies and slaves as they're being pushed back to the Eye of Terror. Our Word Bearer (named Elias Eretoth) pleads with the captain to join the battle, seeing these astartes not as his brothers but as twisted mockeries of the noble men they were. He fights with the ultramarines, earning their respect as he fights on despite being gravely wounded and 'saving' the souls trapped within these twisted marines with boltgun chain sword and, ironically, shouting memorized verses of the Lectitio Divinitatus. The battle ends with only a handful the traitors escaping, and Elias pledging to join the captain's mission so he may continue to atone for his legion's failure and to continue to avenge brothers he views as rabid dogs who need to be put down.

... that's when rowboat girlyman shows up with his honor guard to check in on this smurf captain, and upon seeing Elias the honor guard shoot him dead and leave his body to rot with his traitorous brothers on a Emperor-forsaken moon. Girlyman waves off the captain's objections to such rash action, saying Elias would have betrayed the Ultramarines sooner or later as 'there is no loyal son of Lorgar.'

I was going for depressing, and it went there.

I thought my fan factions had unfair endings.....

tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam  
   
Made in gb
Nasty Nob





Dorset, England

I thought my fan factions had unfair endings.....

Unfair? The Word Bearer was unquestionably guilty by association, the Ultramarines gave him a chance to redeem himself in the eyes of the Emperor before his inevitable execution. That seems harsh but fair to me.
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




 Kroem wrote:
I thought my fan factions had unfair endings.....

Unfair? The Word Bearer was unquestionably guilty by association, the Ultramarines gave him a chance to redeem himself in the eyes of the Emperor before his inevitable execution. That seems harsh but fair to me.

And the ultramarines did swear on Calth to exterminate every single Word Bearer in the galaxy... and the Ultrasmurfs aren't known for going back on their vows. The Ultramarines that arrived never saw Elias performing well during this battle and would have been like 'Hey bruva! you missed one! BLAM! Onto the next objective!'
   
Made in us
Consigned to the Grim Darkness





USA

The Emperor's Peace.

The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
 
   
Made in fr
Fresh-Faced New User




France

Bolt shell between the eyes.

Loyalists from traitor legions? Nah, that's made up. There most definitely aren't multiple chapters descending from them running around. The Red Scorpions most definitely aren't related to the Emperor's Children, that both of them have geneseeds (or had for the EC, I guess) of unmatched purity and a fetish for mkiv armour, while the RS don't have a known primarch, are super secretive and don't let the Inquisition inspect their geneseeds is pure coincidence.

See also : Minotaurs, Blood Raven, Carcharadons, Silver Skulls and a couple others.

And then there are the Dark Ange-*BLAM*
   
 
Forum Index » 40K General Discussion
Go to: