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Whirlwind only have 48 " range I am pretty sure. Their weapons are just bad.

Wyverns and basilisks are just way better and have better stratagems to boot. Plus they are in a better codex. The only SM artillery worth using is a TFC because it has a mode for every situation and it gives you a techmarine. That or whirlwind scorpius.

 MinscS2 wrote:

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:


Wait, what? 72" of Indirect 2d6 s6 d1 shots is bad? What on Super Kami Dende's green butt do you call good for 85 pts?

Like I said above: It's cheap and I don't expect it to do much.
2D6 S6 shots for 85 points sounds amazing, then you do the math: 7 shots average, 4,67 hits, 3,11 wounds against T4, 1,03 after a 3+ save. (1 dead MEQ.)

As far as killing moderately heavy infantry goes, the Castellan Launcher is pretty lackluster.
If you want to kill light infantry there are better ways to spend those points, and regular bolters performs just fine.

The Vengeance Launcher is ironically almost as good at killing MEQ's as the Castellan Launcher (averaging 0,89 wounds), but is far superiour against multi-wound models.

As far as your question goes: The Hunter is really good for it's low cost. It's essentially a Lascannon with re-roll to hit (and +1 against Fly), mounted on a T8 chassi.
Apples and Oranges however, as it's worse than the Whirlwind at dealing with light infantry, I'll give it that.

By that logic, a Deathstrike is the greatest unit of all time. for it's points, under 160, it can deal 20 mortal wounds!!! The Ork Relic Sokk gun can 1 shot a Titan!!! You see, it's not about the math. It's about forcing your opponent to make decisions that alter his/her game. Do I charge his front line, or do I DS into his back field and take out his arty that is mulching my front lines? Whirlwinds force opponent decisions. You can't out range them, and you can't take them out easily.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Whirlwind only have 48 " range I am pretty sure. Their weapons are just bad.

Wyverns and basilisks are just way better and have better stratagems to boot. Plus they are in a better codex. The only SM artillery worth using is a TFC because it has a mode for every situation and it gives you a techmarine. That or whirlwind scorpius.

72". It's in the codex.

 Xenomancers wrote:
Whirlwind only have 48 " range I am pretty sure. Their weapons are just bad.
.

72". It's the FW one that has 48"

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:

Wait, what? 72" of Indirect 2d6 s6 d1 shots is bad? What on Super Kami Dende's green butt do you call good for 85 pts?

Playing pure Space Marines, it feels like you have to do as much damage as possible, as fast as possible, and the Castellan doesn't cut it. Now, if you were able to ensure a more prolonged engagement and distinct sectors of the table where ignoring LOS is more helpful, maaaybe. It still feels like an anti-infantry weapon, and it competes against things like Sternguard with Storm Bolters, who can pump out 20 S4 shots for 90 points.

We always see the SM artillery compared to IG. But how does it stack up vs CWE artillery was my next thought (Nightspinner/FirePrism vs WW, or Vaul's Wrath vs TFC).

That said, many factions don't really have an analogue.

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:


By that logic, a Deathstrike is the greatest unit of all time. for it's points, under 160, it can deal 20 mortal wounds!!! The Ork Relic Sokk gun can 1 shot a Titan!!! You see, it's not about the math. It's about forcing your opponent to make decisions that alter his/her game. Do I charge his front line, or do I DS into his back field and take out his arty that is mulching my front lines? Whirlwinds force opponent decisions. You can't out range them, and you can't take them out easily.

You completely lost me there.

Any player who's moderately experienced in this game knows that it's all about the math and/or averages, that's how we evaluate a unit.

An experienced player will ask you what stats the Whirlwinds gun has, ponder the answer for about 5 seconds, before realizing that it's not a threat his army and then focuses on something else.
The Whirlwind isn't forcing an opponent into anything, unless they are new to the game, and hence grossly overestimate it and focus way to much time and effort into killing it.

It's by your logic that the Deathstrike is the greatest unit of all time because of what it "can" do. (Rare freak accident. 30 mortal wounds in turn 2)
By my logic, the Deathstrike is one of the worst units in the game because of what it "should" do. (Averages and math. 5 mortal wounds in turn 4, assuming it's even alive.)

A good player will make decisions based on how units (both their own and the opponents) "should" perform, not on how they "might" perform.
If you do the latter, you'll find yourself loosing more than you're winning.

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:

 MinscS2 wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:

 MinscS2 wrote:

The Castellan Launcher averages 7 Assault Cannon shots.

Not even that, as the Castellan Launcher has 0 AP.

Heh, you're right. I knew that. April Fools!

...

No but seriously, the Castellan is just plain bad. The Vengeance is decent if you want some indirect autocannon shots but...meh.

Wait, what? 72" of Indirect 2d6 s6 d1 shots is bad? What on Super Kami Dende's green butt do you call good for 85 pts?

The reason it's bad is because it's only just become 85 points, it spent over 2 years being 100 points for that.
Compaired to a wyvern which is 4d6 with regiment bonuses, inbuilt reroll wounds and a heavy bolter for 103 points.
Which ironically is still does more damage per point than a whirlwind against the common targets.