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Did someone say powercreep?

Darsath wrote:
Did someone say powercreep?

How many havocs were hitting the table before?

 MinscS2 wrote:

Wayniac wrote:
All I know is I am psyched for this. 5 Havocs with 4 of the new rotor cannon is 32 24" S5 AP -1 shots that you can make with +1 to hit (Dark Apostle's prayer), and re-roll 1s or all fails (lord/abby), and even +1 to wound (VOTLW).

And you can double that with Endless Cacophony to 64 shots.

Get fethed, hordes.

"Hordes"?

That combo will do 25,92 wounds after saves to MEQ's, 15,55 wounds to Leman Russ-EQ's.

The correct term would be "Get fethed, everyone."

Even better

It's cause of the little talons on their boots. You crummy loyalists have been making fun of our spikes for so long it's about time they come back to poke you in the ass.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Plasma is scared of the dark.

Yup, because plasma never getting hot in past edition if you hated someone enough was sooo much more logical.

Oh wait

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Flamers can automatically hit hypersonic void-craft flying a mile in the air.

I like when this nonsense was parroted last time someone pointed out that pistols or grenades (even these with 3 or 6 inch range, which was always shorter than flamer) never had any problems hitting the mythical "mile high" flyer somehow with hand throw if you happened to be standing underneath it flight path despite not having nearly enough range, and was met with sudden silence. I wonder, will we hear sudden hypersonic silence deployed again?

Especially seeing in past editions flak guns firing solid projectiles had no problem hitting flyers, but as soon as you loaded airburst shrapnel ammo (used since forever in AA role) it magically disappeared once getting close to plane, which also had miraculous field making custode and ork just as accurate in BS by airbending bullets away even if you stood right next to it on landing pad. Because reasons. Veeerrry logical.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
40k 8th edition abandoned what little logic it had left.

That's rich given past editions were far dumb-- Oh, wait, it's coming from someone using 16th bullet point in 1824 edition of Nigerian dictionary while also ignoring half of what it says to ""prove"" rules (that are loud and clear to anyone using common sense...) ""don't"" work despite literally no one with eyes agreeing with such rule twisting and playing it as intended instead.

I especially like how your last attempt to prove turret gun was not, in fact, turret gun (combined with claims expensive relics having far smaller damage output was somehow ""WAD"" was cut short by FAQ stating "of course it is, you idiots!". Logic!

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
So, Havocs can now move and fire without penalty.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/03/23/23rd-mar-heretic-astartes-focus-the-emperors-childrengw-homepage-post-1/

This is kind of, well, disappointing. Why can a guy carrying a heavy weapon shoot better than a tank?

[Also, if a man can carry a lascannon, why does a predator have a lascannon as a main gun?]

This is a weak explanation, so I don't need it pointed out, but in the fluff Havoc weapons usually graft themselves to the Chaos marine and gain a sort of malicious sentience (ammo hoppers develop hungry mouths feasting on more bullets an such) from being in the Warp for such a long time. I suppose if a bazooka literally incorporated itself into my arm and I had it for 100s/1000s of years like that I would become pretty adept at using it even while moving.

 chimeara wrote:
I for one love this new rule. Really gives me a reason to buy a ton more havocs for my IW.

And GW claps their hand sayign "just as planned"

tneva82 wrote:

 chimeara wrote:
I for one love this new rule. Really gives me a reason to buy a ton more havocs for my IW.

And GW claps their hand sayign "just as planned"

I think GW has a vision for chaos of being a really agressive army that pushes up and gets in your face. Now if only CSMs could take boltguns AND chainswords...

 Irbis wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Plasma is scared of the dark.

Yup, because plasma never getting hot in past edition if you hated someone enough was sooo much more logical.

Oh wait

No need to hate someone. Just shoot 2 at the same time.

BrianDavion wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 chimeara wrote:
I for one love this new rule. Really gives me a reason to buy a ton more havocs for my IW.

And GW claps their hand sayign "just as planned"

I think GW has a vision for chaos of being a really agressive army that pushes up and gets in your face. Now if only CSMs could take boltguns AND chainswords...

Or more simply. New models. Got to give something new to sell em. Particularly as havocs hadn't been selling much before.

tneva82 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 chimeara wrote:
I for one love this new rule. Really gives me a reason to buy a ton more havocs for my IW.

And GW claps their hand sayign "just as planned"

I think GW has a vision for chaos of being a really agressive army that pushes up and gets in your face. Now if only CSMs could take boltguns AND chainswords...

Or more simply. New models. Got to give something new to sell em. Particularly as havocs hadn't been selling much before.

Yep.

And would you believe it, the new, never before seen weapon that you can only get if you buy the new kit looks strong as all feth/OP. What a weird coincidence.

This is too obvious.

More often than not new models suck though.

 Eldarain wrote:
More often than not new models suck though.

New units yes. Resculpted older models? The jury's out.

tneva82 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 chimeara wrote:
I for one love this new rule. Really gives me a reason to buy a ton more havocs for my IW.

And GW claps their hand sayign "just as planned"

I think GW has a vision for chaos of being a really agressive army that pushes up and gets in your face. Now if only CSMs could take boltguns AND chainswords...

Or more simply. New models. Got to give something new to sell em. Particularly as havocs hadn't been selling much before.

People conveniently forgetting that Chaos Space Marines are the same weak ass unit as before.

Don't like this rule - there should be minimal exceptions to the move-and-fire heavy weapons penalty, and I see no reason why of all things it should be chaos havocs that have it.

So the t5 and ignore heavy for the same cost as devastators?
How much those bonuses should cost, loyalists should be like 10pts then? Or are they too short and old to have equal rules.

Silver144 wrote:
So the t5 and ignore heavy for the same cost as devastators?
How much those bonuses should cost, loyalists should be like 10pts then? Or are they too short and old to have equal rules.

Or any other heavy weapons specialist that is unable to bypass the heavy weapon rule. Or any tank ffs? How on earth can they justify that a dude in power armour with spurs is somehow more stable firing a massive heavy weapon than a tank?! Absolute nonsense.

Warp reasons. Not hard to handwave, tbh.

Right. So the important question is what is the best way to convert the heavy bolters into rotor cannons? Does any third party manufacturer make good bits for that?

 AnomanderRake wrote:
More more to the point, why does the heavy bolter exist when you can now put 2.66 heavy bolters on one model?

Because the Chaincannon also costs as much as 2.66 HBs. Just like you don't put a combi-plasma and a chainfist on every Chaos Termie just because it's the most dakka and krumping per model. It means that you pay a lot more per fielded wound so it turns them into glass cannons.

 Galef wrote:
The real question is: Will Devs get the same rule AND T5?
Because you will be able to pay an entire Roman legion with the salt that will bring if they don't

-

Nah - they have cherubs.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

Silver144 wrote:
So the t5 and ignore heavy for the same cost as devastators?
How much those bonuses should cost, loyalists should be like 10pts then? Or are they too short and old to have equal rules.

Or any other heavy weapons specialist that is unable to bypass the heavy weapon rule. Or any tank ffs? How on earth can they justify that a dude in power armour with spurs is somehow more stable firing a massive heavy weapon than a tank?! Absolute nonsense.

Yep, but this is an equal units with equal costs. But the spiky ones got +1T and relentless for free.

The article didn't say anything about T5, did it?

You know what I'd like?

I'd like if the thousand sons, who have the same freaking gun, could get a rules update doubling its shots pretty please.

the_scotsman wrote:
You know what I'd like?

I'd like if the thousand sons, who have the same freaking gun, could get a rules update doubling its shots pretty please.

Thousand Sons have other shenanigans such as pskers for days.

 chimeara wrote:
The article didn't say anything about T5, did it?

Yeah, where is the talk of T5 coming from?

Other leaks, which seem to be confirmed as accurate by GW’s official stuff.

 Arachnofiend wrote:
It's cause of the little talons on their boots. You crummy loyalists have been making fun of our spikes for so long it's about time they come back to poke you in the ass.

Raptors should get this rule too then.

Because in the grim darkness of the 41st millennium bone spurs actually make you better in combat.

Why people keeps comparing Devastators with Havocs when Devastators have the Cherub and the Sargeant can give +1 to hit to one of the weapons?

Havocs didn't had any of that for all of 8th edition and they costed the same as Devastators, but nobody said anything about giving the same rules for Havocs.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Galef wrote:
The real question is: Will Devs get the same rule AND T5?
Because you will be able to pay an entire Roman legion with the salt that will bring if they don't

-

Do the need it? they were better before.

Edit: btw i could live with that i am just wondering.

Yeah sorry - havocs were already better than marine devs. VOTL alone makes them better...plus they can shoot twice.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

Silver144 wrote:
So the t5 and ignore heavy for the same cost as devastators?
How much those bonuses should cost, loyalists should be like 10pts then? Or are they too short and old to have equal rules.

Or any other heavy weapons specialist that is unable to bypass the heavy weapon rule. Or any tank ffs? How on earth can they justify that a dude in power armour with spurs is somehow more stable firing a massive heavy weapon than a tank?! Absolute nonsense.

Marines should all be relentless. It's been my suggestion since about 5th edition. This vehicles suffering penalty for moving is new to 8th. All vehicles should be able to move and fire with no penalty AND fall back and shoot and move over infantry.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Galas wrote:
Why people keeps comparing Devastators with Havocs when Devastators have the Cherub and the Sargeant can give +1 to hit to one of the weapons?

Havocs didn't had any of that for all of 8th edition and they costed the same as Devastators, but nobody said anything about giving the same rules for Havocs.

Should marine devs also get the ability to shoot twice then?

They should make the Signum give +1 to hit for all members of the squad, but they can't move. And even then Devs would still be behind Havocs due to less mobility and lower Toughness.