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 Galef wrote:
With 17 Stratagems, I kinda hope "Soulburst" is a thing of the past and you get to "move twice, shoot twice, fight twice, etc" through those Strats instead.

Really, that's all you'd need to make Ynnari and "thing". You take the 3 Characters in a Supreme Command detachment, or "buy" them with 1 CP like Assassins and if you include any in your Army, you get access to the Ynnari Strats, Relics, WL traits, etc.
But you don't give up you CWE, DE or Harlie traits to get anything other than that.
It would make it MUCH less complicated and if the Strats are good, it will still be worth mixing Aeldari, but in separate detachments without all the snowflake rules around them

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Uuuh that sounds like it would be huge boost with nbo downside. Gee no own detachment, ability to pick which you want as needed and not even giving up traits. Are ynnari really in need of BOOST? Pretty sure they are already dominating the scene...

Losing Soulburst is part of his proposal so pretty big downside losing that broken nonsense.

 bullyboy wrote:
Hey, I'm just happy they previewed the article without using the word "bespoke".

Nice, bringing out the 8th edition memes from two years ago.

 Eldarain wrote:
Losing Soulburst is part of his proposal so pretty big downside losing that broken nonsense.

I'm pretty sure putting them in as stratagems at no adverse cost is a boost. They stop being conditional and can be used every phase.

Dudeface wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:
Losing Soulburst is part of his proposal so pretty big downside losing that broken nonsense.

I'm pretty sure putting them in as stratagems at no adverse cost is a boost. They stop being conditional and can be used every phase.

It can still be conditional - "Use this Stratagem when a unit dies within 7 inches of a Ynnari unit." Add in CP costs and it'd definitely be weakened.

Dudeface wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:
Losing Soulburst is part of his proposal so pretty big downside losing that broken nonsense.

I'm pretty sure putting them in as stratagems at no adverse cost is a boost. They stop being conditional and can be used every phase.

At a cost of 2-3 CP each a fairly standard 14 CP list would get to bonus action seven times, at most. Vs now where they can Soul Burst 2-3 times a turn.

2 CP for double movement is strong but like pointed out earlier, it is something other armies can trigger unconditionally through character inclusion as well. (Well other than a range condition) So 2 CP seems pretty fair. 3 CP for fight twice is standard, the same for shoot twice seems appropriate. That gives enough for two rounds of double shooting and punching. Strong, yes, but not having access all game strong.

That's exactly part of my suggestion/speculation. The "condition" is still there to trigger the Strat, but now you have to spend a CP or 2 to use the Soulburst.
This would also mean only getting to use 1 kind of "act twice" ability per phase in Matched Play without the added FAQ telling you so. It's cleaner and requires actual resources.

And even though it means keeping your Faction Traits, that's "cleaner" too. It is frustrating to have a situation in which you could have Alaitoc units in one detachment getting the -1 to hit trait, yet another detachment with "Alaitoc" units that trade the trait for being Ynnari.
It's dumb and needs to die.

And it 100% makes sense to require at least 1 of the Ynnari Characters to gain the Strats/Relic/WL traits. Otherwise EVERY Aeldari army would just be Ynnari all the time as there would be no "negative" for doing so, even if you choose not to spend CPs to Soulburst.
Fluff-wise, you need an Ynnari WL to lead your Ynnari and unless their rules have detachments like the Vigilus ones that add the Keyword at the cost of CPs (actually not a bad idea) there's not really a better way to "make" Ynnari Characters without a full codex (which we aren't getting)

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I'm wondering about the FAQ timing.
I initially thought Ynnari would be nerfed to the ground in the FAQ, and then made playable again with the WD supplement. But now, it looks like the FAQ should drop around the same time as WD.
So it might be possible that the FAQ will contain the same Ynnari rules as in WD, just without the traits/relics/powers.

Rule sequencing also matters as far as FAQs are concerned. Once WD is out, what happens if they update the index Xenos FAQ? Does is affect the Ynnari rules in WD? The only option I see is to treat the WD article as the codex, and once it's out, never update the Index Xenos FAQ anymore. Which means that the FAQ has to get out before the WD article does, otherwise any update to the Index Xenos FAQ would become the newest publication regarding Ynnari rules.

Also, are there many special characters out there that don't have a set warlord trait? Because 6 traits for 3 special characters is puzzling.

I'm wondering if they're waiting until after the new Slaanesh stuff is fully revealed on Saturday, so the new unit rules can be included in Chaos codex FAQs.

fresus wrote:
I'm wondering about the FAQ timing.
I initially thought Ynnari would be nerfed to the ground in the FAQ, and then made playable again with the WD supplement. But now, it looks like the FAQ should drop around the same time as WD.
So it might be possible that the FAQ will contain the same Ynnari rules as in WD, just without the traits/relics/powers.

From the last FAQ we now that pretty much anything that has been released this year will probably not be touched.

Rule sequencing also matters as far as FAQs are concerned. Once WD is out, what happens if they update the index Xenos FAQ? Does is affect the Ynnari rules in WD? The only option I see is to treat the WD article as the codex, and once it's out, never update the Index Xenos FAQ anymore. Which means that the FAQ has to get out before the WD article does, otherwise any update to the Index Xenos FAQ would become the newest publication regarding Ynnari rules.

More likely, there will not be any changes to Index: Xenos in this FAQ. With the WD's release that book has become obsolete in GW's eyes.

How about just not doing that double activation thing, because it breaks the game.

Not that me saying it would change anything.

It would be hilarious if Ynnari keep their core mechanic and get stratagems and relics on top. You would have to buy a snow plower to get through mountains of salt.

fresus wrote:
I'm wondering about the FAQ timing.
I initially thought Ynnari would be nerfed to the ground in the FAQ, and then made playable again with the WD supplement. But now, it looks like the FAQ should drop around the same time as WD.
So it might be possible that the FAQ will contain the same Ynnari rules as in WD, just without the traits/relics/powers.

Why you think FAQ would contain ynnari rules to begin with? And in any case FAQ is made well after WD article was made so even if FAQ had something to ynnari that got overwritten in WD article they could fix those in the FAQ before releasing FAQ. Lead time on online FAQ's is LOT shorter than for physical items like WD.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Galef wrote:

And even though it means keeping your Faction Traits, that's "cleaner" too. It is frustrating to have a situation in which you could have Alaitoc units in one detachment getting the -1 to hit trait, yet another detachment with "Alaitoc" units that trade the trait for being Ynnari.
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Why ynnari should be such a special snowflake as to get multiple chapter/regiment/whatever bonuses? I want combination of evil sun and death skull traits as well then!

fresus wrote:
I'm wondering about the FAQ timing.
I initially thought Ynnari would be nerfed to the ground in the FAQ, and then made playable again with the WD supplement. But now, it looks like the FAQ should drop around the same time as WD.
So it might be possible that the FAQ will contain the same Ynnari rules as in WD, just without the traits/relics/powers.

Rule sequencing also matters as far as FAQs are concerned. Once WD is out, what happens if they update the index Xenos FAQ? Does is affect the Ynnari rules in WD? The only option I see is to treat the WD article as the codex, and once it's out, never update the Index Xenos FAQ anymore. Which means that the FAQ has to get out before the WD article does, otherwise any update to the Index Xenos FAQ would become the newest publication regarding Ynnari rules.

Also, are there many special characters out there that don't have a set warlord trait? Because 6 traits for 3 special characters is puzzling.

The only named characters I know of that don't have a set warlord trait tend not to be able to have one anyway, like the Phoenix Lords.

I think it's a good indication that the "must hav eone of these characters as your warlord" requirement is being dropped.

tneva82 wrote:

 Galef wrote:

And even though it means keeping your Faction Traits, that's "cleaner" too. It is frustrating to have a situation in which you could have Alaitoc units in one detachment getting the -1 to hit trait, yet another detachment with "Alaitoc" units that trade the trait for being Ynnari.
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Why ynnari should be such a special snowflake as to get multiple chapter/regiment/whatever bonuses? I want combination of evil sun and death skull traits as well then!

I am not suggesting that Ynnari be able to "combine" traits. I am suggesting the "Strength from Death"/Soulburst not be a trait AT ALL.
Let CWE/DE/Harlies keep their existing traits, make "Strength from Death" an aura ability that ONLY the 3 Ynnari Characters give out to AELDARI models and make Soulburst into Stratagems.

Following the same pattern as Assassins, you now have to pay CPs to be able to use Ynnari stuff AND still have to pay for the Characters. So nothing is "free" like it is now

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 Galef wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Galef wrote:

And even though it means keeping your Faction Traits, that's "cleaner" too. It is frustrating to have a situation in which you could have Alaitoc units in one detachment getting the -1 to hit trait, yet another detachment with "Alaitoc" units that trade the trait for being Ynnari.
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Why ynnari should be such a special snowflake as to get multiple chapter/regiment/whatever bonuses? I want combination of evil sun and death skull traits as well then!

I am not suggesting that Ynnari be able to "combine" traits. I am suggesting the "Strength from Death"/Soulburst not be a trait AT ALL.
Let CWE/DE/Harlies keep their existing traits, make "Strength from Death" an aura ability that ONLY the 3 Ynnari Characters give out to AELDARI models and make Soulburst into Stratagems.

Following the same pattern as Assassins, you now have to pay CPs to be able to use Ynnari stuff AND still have to pay for the Characters. So nothing is "free" like it is now

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Probably the best suggestion. I think people are confused in thinking that Ynarri are a real faction, they aren't. Ynarri are craftworld eldar, harlequins and drukhari.

Agreed, Ynnari should not be their own faction until they get a full codex with unique units other than just 3 Characters (which, to be clear, I hope NEVER happens).
Until then, the followers of Ynnead are made up from fragments of the other 3 Aeldari factions lead by specific Characters.

It's a growing movement, sure, but a very small one in the grand scheme of things. The individual members of the Ynnari still have presumably centuries of being part of their respective Craftworld, Kabal, Masque, etc. So why would a sudden change of....religion?...alter how they go to and act in war?

Just add your character(s) of choice, get Strats. Eazy-peazy.

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Any indication they're releasing the triumvirate models separately?

 Not-not-kenny wrote:
Any indication they're releasing the triumvirate models separately?

White Dwarf articles are not linked to the release schedule anymore so there's no indication on if they're going to release the models individually.

So, the New Zealand page for the White Dwarf is up. You can read the general army rules in a picture.

No named characters in Ynnari other than the 3 Ynnari specifics. And no Solitaire

Basically, no more using non Ynnari stratagems and psychic powers on Ynnari units. Also, they replace the <Faction> with Reborn Eldar-Type.

Beasts, Scourges, and Incubi can be included in Ynnari armies without breaking solid detachment rules but don't get Strength From Death, either.

Including the characters in a detachment lets you decide if it is a standard Craftworld, Drukhari, or Harlequins without giving up specific faction bonuses (but no such bonus for the Ynnari character.) Alternatively, you can decide that it is an Ynnari Detachment and all units gain Ynnari keyword (and faction changes mentioned above).

Strength From Death: (effects all Ynnari units in a Battle Forged non Superheavy Auxiliary detachment)

Once any unit dies all Ynnari units get to benefit from "Soulburst actions" which seems to be an Always Strike First (alternate with chargers, etc) for the rest of the turn. If the Ynnari unit had an Always Strike First type rule or charged that turn they can add 1 to their to hit rolls with melee weapons that turn.

No word if there are other things involved with "Soulburst actions" or if that was just flavor text now.


www.games-workshop.com/en-NZ/White-Dwarf-May-EN-2019

Hooray! I personally adore the idea of now only castelans being legitimate with ynnari do not pass go do not collect 200 dollars-ing from the best ability type in the game (double actions) to the literal worst ability in the game (fight first on the 2nd round of combat which usually doesn't happen and also wtf eldar aren't a melee army).

God I hate that ability. I loathe it on slaanesh units and I loath it all the more here.

To be fair, we don't know how good or bad it is, yet. But if "Soulburst actions" is only that little bit then things are a bit rougher.

Lots of things depend on datasheet changes, new powers, relics, and Strategems.

In the meantime, I can think of a few units that might like +1 to hit. Though to wound would of been nicer in general!

Was gonna say the same thing. Strategems could save us yet

I think it's hilarious you can't give your wraithknight ynnari unless you take 3 or put him in a supreme command XD

At least that Wraithknight gets some benefit from Strength from Death now. It isn't too bad of a deal for a Sword Wraithknight. That big blade might actually hit something and tap dancing on 2's is pretty good. But whether its worth giving up Craftworld traits is another story.

I mean, how are you going to get that wraithknight? Gonna take 3? O.o Or a supreme command detachment consisting of what...a farseer who can't use their powers on their own detachment and an archon who doesn't give the rest of his detachment rerolls?

And are you imagining a world in which the wraithknight won't prefer -1 to be hit or double wounds for degration use of the psystone over +1 to hit? o.o

Too early to say how the army will play. It will probably be weaker but that doesn't make it completely useless in a non competitive setting.

Too early to say how the army will play. It will probably be weaker but that doesn't make it completely useless in a non competitive setting.

I never get this argument.

Everything is not completely useless in a non-competitive setting.

Rules should be balanced so they are useful in any match played game.

Wraithknights have gotta be in Supreme Command, I think, if you need to include an Ynnari character in the detachment. (So far at least)

However, a Farseer has a number of useful powers that get cast at enemy units. Sure, losing Guide hurts but Doom is far and away the most important Farseer power and it still functions nicely.

But yes, the drawback of losing Craftworld faction bonuses is rough, as mentioned.

GW probably put that placeholder rule up for now until they can make a proper Ynnari codex with new (all melee? lol) units. Which I reckon won't be anytime soon.

Yeah. Necron are not completely useless in a non-competitive setting. So are striking scorpions and falcons.