Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Ah I see!

Not so much about a specific disadvantage to Ynnari, but whether it levels a playing field.

 Shadenuat wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
So you gain a rule that is definitely worse than rising crescendo and PFP, slightly better than Battlefocus and lose your detachment benefit to gain some truly awful Stratagems

You don't seem to lose BF, PFP or Crescendo.

Agreed. You lose Detachment Abilities and Craftworld Attributes and cannot use strategems, psychic powers or relics on Ynnari units, even if they have the appropriate keyword.

Also the verbiage for Unbind Souls makes me think that they will add something to Doom that limits re-rolls to Asuryani units too

Well i believe it's a nice touch up as it makes Ynnari the want to be close up and personal.

Are they killed by this changes?

Only for competitive probably as they double action was massively abused and it's the only reason for them to be hated.

Personally i like them not going to make a huge Ynnari army but i can see a Supreme command Detachment with Wraithblades/Wraithguard and a Wraithknight being able to take some advantage from it whitout being brokenly OP

Can someone clarify, but is it absolutely necessary to use the special characters to get a Ynnari detachment?

Instead of having one or more of the leaders of your apocalyptic death cult show up in person in each battle, is it possible to play a Ynnari army with generic Ynnari warlord?

Iracundus wrote:
Can someone clarify, but is it absolutely necessary to use the special characters to get a Ynnari detachment?

Instead of having one or more of the leaders of your apocalyptic death cult show up in person in each battle, is it possible to play a Ynnari army with generic Ynnari warlord?

You need one special character per Ynnari detachment, but they don't have to be your warlord anymore.

From what i can tell.

The Visarch is the same with re-roll hits of 1 in melee for all Ynnari within 6", cost 1 pt less

Yncarne is the same (re-word the DS and teleport to clean it up), same point cost

Yvarine is the same, cost the same

 wannabmoy wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
It’s under ‘Strength From Death’ fella.

Maybe the verbiage is not as intuitive to me. It makes me believe that a soul burst action is something in addition to what’s described under SFD but you’re probably right.


Very underwhelmed and disappointed so far.

It's very badly written, seemingly implying that Soulbursting is described elsewhere when it isn't. Add that to it being a rubbish special rule in the first place.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Amishprn86 wrote:
From what i can tell.

The Visarch is the same with re-roll hits of 1 in melee for all Ynnari within 6", cost 1 pt less

Yncarne is the same (re-word the DS and teleport to clean it up), same point cost

Yvarine is the same, cost the same

The Visarch is 21pts less, he was 141 in the Index Xenos 1, and has been given the Forceshield from the FAQ and the re-roll 1's aura.

I think GW should just write a full Ynnari Codex with actual Ynnari models rather than effectively cannibalizing units from other factions.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Just passing on one group’s opinion, but my local club seem to think it’s a Nerf a long time coming?

I neither endorse nor reject that opinion, because it’s not mine. I don’t know enough about the tabletop side of things right now to have a valid opinion of my own on the matter.

I think most Ynnari players would agree the old Strength from Death mechanics needed to change, they could get very obnoxious in the hands of a skilled player, and they tended to universally favoure large squads of very powerful models like Dark Reapers and Shinning Spears, but this change is both increadibly dull as a mechanic (only rarely takes effect and doesn't really let you do anything different to normal) and increadibly bad (my shooty units +1 to hit in combat where they don't want to be, and most of my combat units worth a damn already have that).

 Shadenuat wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
So you gain a rule that is definitely worse than rising crescendo and PFP, slightly better than Battlefocus and lose your detachment benefit to gain some truly awful Stratagems

You don't seem to lose BF, PFP or Crescendo.

You lose DRUKHARI, ASURYANI, and HARLEQUINS. Don't those abilities require those keywords?

I’m seeing this as a stop-gap whilst they decide on how to make Ynnari a complete faction in itself.

After all, there’s only so long a mixing of cultures can go on before the differences becomes indivisible. Which is a good thing, if you ask me.

For me, I’d like to see them really play up The Eldar Of Old angle, but with personal restraint being important.

Also, I notice that Fire and Fade is now 2CP, where it's 1CP in all 3 of the Aeldari codexes.

the_scotsman wrote:
You lose DRUKHARI, ASURYANI, and HARLEQUINS. Don't those abilities require those keywords?

It specifically states things like: "you cannot use craftworld psychic power on asuryani with ynnari keyword". So I don't see where you get that from. Certainly requires some FAQ for all this tho.

One thing I noticed: you can take say Farseer on bike, generate Revenant spells for them, give Ynnari in "6 a 5++ save. You also can make one your Warlord, give things like restore CP, 1/2 damage relic, and so on.

And 5++ is for all Ynnari units, not just Infantry or Biker. (my guess that's something waiting to be FAQed)

You can take Warlock with Gaze of Ynnead as cheap HQ.

 Imateria wrote:
Also, I notice that Fire and Fade is now 2CP, where it's 1CP in all 3 of the Aeldari codexes.

Logic is probably because Craftworlds are shooting army, they get it cheaper.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I’m seeing this as a stop-gap whilst they decide on how to make Ynnari a complete faction in itself.

After all, there’s only so long a mixing of cultures can go on before the differences becomes indivisible. Which is a good thing, if you ask me.

For me, I’d like to see them really play up The Eldar Of Old angle, but with personal restraint being important.

The issue is how they make them sufficiently different while not overly infringing on each existing Eldar faction's theme/specialty.

The Eldar of Old were supposedly both physically adept and psychically powerful. The Dark Eldar kept the physical training up but let their psychic ability atrophy. The Craftworlders kept their psychic ability and have heavier armor in the form of their tanks and wraith constructs. The Harlequins have a bit of both but lack heavy vehicles.

This is not even thinking about what (if anything) Exodites will ever get.

the_scotsman wrote:

 Shadenuat wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
So you gain a rule that is definitely worse than rising crescendo and PFP, slightly better than Battlefocus and lose your detachment benefit to gain some truly awful Stratagems

You don't seem to lose BF, PFP or Crescendo.

You lose DRUKHARI, ASURYANI, and HARLEQUINS. Don't those abilities require those keywords?

Yep, im actually thinking this isnt such a bad nerf, with PFP, Rising Crescendo, etc.. you could make Quins, Wcyhes, Banshees, Wraiths something scary.


BUT, Court of the Archon are now not allowed in Ynnari

If wych cults retain PFP and harlequins retain crescendo then I can certainly see this being a usable alternative to a Cult/Masque trait. Even a decent masque trait. Also a very nice alternative to Saim-Hann craft world since you retain the only thing from it you want (s dance and charge on shining spears)

What the heck is a Starglaive (referenced in one of the relics)? Is that an autarch weapon?

the_scotsman wrote:

 Shadenuat wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
So you gain a rule that is definitely worse than rising crescendo and PFP, slightly better than Battlefocus and lose your detachment benefit to gain some truly awful Stratagems

You don't seem to lose BF, PFP or Crescendo.

You lose DRUKHARI, ASURYANI, and HARLEQUINS. Don't those abilities require those keywords?

Nope, they're written "If a unit has this ability...". You do loose the aura's though. Archon's, Troop Masters, Shadowseers, Succubi, Autarchs, Beastmasters and I think Spiritseers can no longer buff their relevant units in Ynnari due to the loss of relevant keywords. I believe this makes the Visarch the only source of re-rolls to hit in an Ynnari army now since Guide can't be used on them either.

 Amishprn86 wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

 Shadenuat wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
So you gain a rule that is definitely worse than rising crescendo and PFP, slightly better than Battlefocus and lose your detachment benefit to gain some truly awful Stratagems

You don't seem to lose BF, PFP or Crescendo.

You lose DRUKHARI, ASURYANI, and HARLEQUINS. Don't those abilities require those keywords?

Yep, im actually thinking this isnt such a bad nerf, with PFP, Rising Crescendo, etc.. you could make Quins, Wcyhes, Banshees, Wraiths something scary.


BUT, Court of the Archon are now not allowed in Ynnari

The thing I think might salvage it is the two reroll wound abilities. SO MANY units would be better with easy access to wound reroll in melee.

In short you lose everything whats in the list, all powers (because you MUST generate them from Revenant discipline instead), can't target Ynnari with any powers but Revenant discipline.

What the heck is a Starglaive (referenced in one of the relics)? Is that an autarch weapon?

Yes. And with +1 to hit from Soulburst, you actually do not want to replace it for CP. Not that you probably really want a foot Autarch in Ynnari at all.

You might want to replace Power sword on Autarch Jetbike though with that d2 damage sword, since it's cheaper than Lance and does MW.

No, auras and abilities still work. Reborn X keyword is worded exactly like Brood Brothers: All instances on the datasheets.

EDIT: actually, you get auras on more units. Since you get Reborn drukhari on all Wych Cult and Kabal units, you have Archon buffing wych cults and succubus buffing kabal, FWIW.

 Amishprn86 wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

 Shadenuat wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
So you gain a rule that is definitely worse than rising crescendo and PFP, slightly better than Battlefocus and lose your detachment benefit to gain some truly awful Stratagems

You don't seem to lose BF, PFP or Crescendo.

You lose DRUKHARI, ASURYANI, and HARLEQUINS. Don't those abilities require those keywords?

Yep, im actually thinking this isnt such a bad nerf, with PFP, Rising Crescendo, etc.. you could make Quins, Wcyhes, Banshees, Wraiths something scary.


BUT, Court of the Archon are now not allowed in Ynnari

Wait, what makes you say that the Court isn't allowed?

Yeah Court is allowed. They all have the drukhari and Kabal keyword.

the_scotsman wrote:
If wych cults retain PFP and harlequins retain crescendo then I can certainly see this being a usable alternative to a Cult/Masque trait. Even a decent masque trait. Also a very nice alternative to Saim-Hann craft world since you retain the only thing from it you want (s dance and charge on shining spears)

What the heck is a Starglaive (referenced in one of the relics)? Is that an autarch weapon?

Stargalive is the standard powerfist type weapon an Autarch on foot comes with.

I disagree on the Wyches, small squads tend to be objective grabbers or an annoyance, trying to pin down infantry units with the Shardnet, I don't think 10 man units have that much of a roll and a 20 Wych blob is a fairly scary combat unit. 5 man squads don't care about the buff, it's not what they're there for and the 10 man squads need something much bigger to really help them. The 20 Wych blob though gains much more out of their Obsessions, +1A on 20 Wyches is worth a lot more than +1 to hit, especially if it's turn 3, and +1S and moral defence is even better.

You'll be relying very heavily on Ancestors Grace and Unbind Souls to make up the difference IMO.

 Burnage wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

 Shadenuat wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
So you gain a rule that is definitely worse than rising crescendo and PFP, slightly better than Battlefocus and lose your detachment benefit to gain some truly awful Stratagems

You don't seem to lose BF, PFP or Crescendo.

You lose DRUKHARI, ASURYANI, and HARLEQUINS. Don't those abilities require those keywords?

Yep, im actually thinking this isnt such a bad nerf, with PFP, Rising Crescendo, etc.. you could make Quins, Wcyhes, Banshees, Wraiths something scary.


BUT, Court of the Archon are now not allowed in Ynnari

Wait, what makes you say that the Court isn't allowed?

I read it wrong


PS

Already found a combo i like. Succubus, Having +1 attack and Str WL trait with Hungering Blade (+3S) on a Succubus with +1Str drug is insane. You could have a S8 melee Succubus now 5 attacks, hitting on 2+ with re-rolls to hit.

the_scotsman wrote:
No, auras and abilities still work. Reborn X keyword is worded exactly like Brood Brothers: All instances on the datasheets.

EDIT: actually, you get auras on more units. Since you get Reborn drukhari on all Wych Cult and Kabal units, you have Archon buffing wych cults and succubus buffing kabal, FWIW.

I missed that last sentence, your right.

 Amishprn86 wrote:

Spoiler:

 Burnage wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

 Shadenuat wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
So you gain a rule that is definitely worse than rising crescendo and PFP, slightly better than Battlefocus and lose your detachment benefit to gain some truly awful Stratagems

You don't seem to lose BF, PFP or Crescendo.

You lose DRUKHARI, ASURYANI, and HARLEQUINS. Don't those abilities require those keywords?

Yep, im actually thinking this isnt such a bad nerf, with PFP, Rising Crescendo, etc.. you could make Quins, Wcyhes, Banshees, Wraiths something scary.


BUT, Court of the Archon are now not allowed in Ynnari

Wait, what makes you say that the Court isn't allowed?

I read it wrong


PS

Already found a combo i like. Succubus, Having +1 attack and Str WL trait with Hungering Blade (+3S) on a Succubus with +1Str drug is insane. You could have a S8 melee Succubus now 5 attacks, hitting on 2+ with re-rolls to hit.

A Succubus can't take the Hungering Blade, they don't have access to any of the weapons that you can swap it for.

Can't give the Hungering Blade to a Succubus as she doesn't have the option for a Power Sword, Huskblade or Starglaive.

It is so hilarious that they could not throw the tiny, pitiful bone of having the INCUBI keyword replaced by REBORN DRUKHARI, given how heavily incubi feature in Ynnari fluff.

Nope, gotta spend 2cp on this terrible unit to let them participate even a little bit. Lol.

Shelve your units, boys. Those 3 models are useless now. Not even a shoot twice strat like others get