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Again "fairly unanimously" is another way of saying "not unanimously". Amongst top players, it was "fairly unanimously" considered a bad unit.

It's okay for armies to have strong stuff. Pretty much every army needs anti-tank, CSM finally have a decent one, of course its going to be auto-take. Even for the role it's kinda limited, and still dies the next turn. Now it has the impact to justify it's points.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Again, it's all opinions, but going off the most recent printing is the only way to do it. GW has had print times clash like this before.

 grouchoben wrote:
What we know:

The codex contains a printing error. The data slate is inconsistent with the price sheet: one says 1-3 models, the other says 3. So we know one of the two must be incorrect.

Which one is it? The data slate that has recently been fundamentally changed, in line with a new model release for the unit?

Or the points sheet that is identical to the old unit not only in price but models-per-unit?

To argue the former is not really reasonable: you're supposing, for some reason, that GW changed the model and the unit composition and the stats and the points, then decided 14 days later to immediately change the points back and the unit composition back, whilst keeping the new model and the new stats, but failed to properly update the codex to reflect this about-face.

As opposed to supposing that they just mistakenly copy-pasta'd from the old document. It's just Occam's Razor.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I will admit, though, that it's weird that GW haven't auto-FAQ'd this like they immediately did with the SW codex...

Because they will get a bunch of sales on the kit while the points are low before the faq and then they will be shelved after.....not really hard to understand if you just factor in how shady GW really is

Wait? When the feth were Oblits considered a bad unit? Did I miss a meta change that nerfed them?
I know they weren't taken by "top-tourney" players, but I was under the impression that Slaanesh Oblits + shoot twice was still a powerful combo.

Just because something isn't "good-enough" for top tourneys, doesn't mean the unit isn't good. I mean just look at Craftworld Eldar. That book has TONS of "good" units that just do not make it to top tourney lists because they aren't Dark Reapers or Shining Spears in an Ynnari list.
If the standard of "good" is that it has to make it to tourney lists or don't bother, than yeah, Oblits must have been trash and even at 65ppm, Nublits might just make it to a list or 2.

But there is no way +1T, +1W, +2 shots isn't getting a points increase from GW on a unit that was at least "ok". Or at least, I cannot think of a similar example of such a thing every happening

-

 Galef wrote:
Wait? When the feth were Oblits considered a bad unit? Did I miss a meta change that nerfed them?
I know they weren't taken by "top-tourney" players, but I was under the impression that Slaanesh Oblits + shoot twice was still a powerful combo.

Just because something isn't "good-enough" for top tourneys, doesn't mean the unit isn't good. I mean just look at Craftworld Eldar. That book has TONS of "good" units that just do not make it to top tourney lists because they aren't Dark Reapers or Shining Spears in an Ynnari list.
If the standard of "good" is that it has to make it to tourney lists or don't bother, than yeah, Oblits must have been trash and even at 65ppm, Nublits might just make it to a list or 2.

But there is no way +1T, +1W, +2 shots isn't getting a points increase from GW on a unit that was at least "ok". Or at least, I cannot think of a similar example of such a thing every happening

-

Actually there is, remember the SW situation?
yeah the FAQ was delivered the same time with the book.
might very well be the case that they tried to test the water with shadowspear and realized that now nobody does take them anymore competitively so the price went on the chopping block.

 SHUPPET wrote:
"Clearly OP" is pretty subjective. I think it's CLEARLY fine, and this forum is doing what it did for Kelermorph in recent memory, and a ton of other gak prior. Oblits will be fine at this point cost. Ruling against things that you think is OP is a very dangerous attitude.

This isn't ruling against something that is OP though. It's ruling for common sense. Oblits got played in tournaments at their old points cost so were arguably competitive. To then give that unit 50% extra shooting, a wound, extra toughness and change then to be at least competent in mele and claim that it doesn't tip the balance too far is a strange assessment to make.

Don't get me wrong if I could get away with it I would take 9 to tournaments but if GW made a typo and gave gurdsmen 5 wounds each you would expect TOs to do something about it.

 small_gods wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
"Clearly OP" is pretty subjective. I think it's CLEARLY fine, and this forum is doing what it did for Kelermorph in recent memory, and a ton of other gak prior. Oblits will be fine at this point cost. Ruling against things that you think is OP is a very dangerous attitude.

This isn't ruling against something that is OP though. It's ruling for common sense. Oblits got played in tournaments at their old points cost so were arguably competitive. To then give that unit 50% extra shooting, a wound, extra toughness and change then to be at least competent in mele and claim that it doesn't tip the balance too far is a strange assessment to make.

Don't get me wrong if I could get away with it I would take 9 to tournaments but if GW made a typo and gave gurdsmen 5 wounds each you would expect TOs to do something about it.

What tournaments were they played at?

Genuinely curious, since Shuppet claims they weren't, you claim they were, and I don't follow tournaments enough to know who's right.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Galef wrote:
Wait? When the feth were Oblits considered a bad unit? Did I miss a meta change that nerfed them?
I know they weren't taken by "top-tourney" players, but I was under the impression that Slaanesh Oblits + shoot twice was still a powerful combo.

Just because something isn't "good-enough" for top tourneys, doesn't mean the unit isn't good. I mean just look at Craftworld Eldar. That book has TONS of "good" units that just do not make it to top tourney lists because they aren't Dark Reapers or Shining Spears in an Ynnari list.
If the standard of "good" is that it has to make it to tourney lists or don't bother, than yeah, Oblits must have been trash and even at 65ppm, Nublits might just make it to a list or 2.

But there is no way +1T, +1W, +2 shots isn't getting a points increase from GW on a unit that was at least "ok". Or at least, I cannot think of a similar example of such a thing every happening

-

Actually there is, remember the SW situation?
yeah the FAQ was delivered the same time with the book.
might very well be the case that they tried to test the water with shadowspear and realized that now nobody does take them anymore competitively so the price went on the chopping block.

The SW change had been decided on months ago, because non-english versions went to print with the "right" warlord traits. So it wasn't immediate and reactionary, and isn't a quick turnaround on the FAQ.

In addition, the new Chaos book also went to print well before there could have been any feedback on Shadowspear, probably before shadowspear was even announced.

 quickfuze wrote:


Because they will get a bunch of sales on the kit while the points are low before the faq and then they will be shelved after.....not really hard to understand if you just factor in how shady GW really is

You mean the $180 "kit" that has alternate point values that were encountered BEFORE the codex was out?

What a dastardly plan! "Guys let's publish the wrong cost instead of just a low cost all around! That will definitely get more sales than just giving them a low cost!"

 Galef wrote:
Wait? When the feth were Oblits considered a bad unit? Did I miss a meta change that nerfed them?
I know they weren't taken by "top-tourney" players, but I was under the impression that Slaanesh Oblits + shoot twice was still a powerful combo.

Just because something isn't "good-enough" for top tourneys, doesn't mean the unit isn't good. I mean just look at Craftworld Eldar. That book has TONS of "good" units that just do not make it to top tourney lists because they aren't Dark Reapers or Shining Spears in an Ynnari list.
If the standard of "good" is that it has to make it to tourney lists or don't bother, than yeah, Oblits must have been trash and even at 65ppm, Nublits might just make it to a list or 2.

But there is no way +1T, +1W, +2 shots isn't getting a points increase from GW on a unit that was at least "ok". Or at least, I cannot think of a similar example of such a thing every happening

-

Technically abaddon got a huge buff and didn't increase in points. However so did Calgar (not nearly as much) but it was just a free buff. On a character that costs over 200 points though - it can be argued they were overcosted to begin with (at least I think they were) the abaddon buff is insane though - his overall damage went up drastically with d3 to flat 3. Plus his aura....ignoring to hit modifiers...come on man. Anyways. No point in debating with people who refuse to acknowledge basic truths. Oblitz were a BIS option for chaos soup since forever. Even at 115 points they still will be. Many have demonstrated their points efficiency in a squad of 3 with the same buffs they were getting before - it is comparable - plus they are tougher - have more access to defensive buffs too.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Galef wrote:
Wait? When the feth were Oblits considered a bad unit? Did I miss a meta change that nerfed them?
I know they weren't taken by "top-tourney" players, but I was under the impression that Slaanesh Oblits + shoot twice was still a powerful combo.

Just because something isn't "good-enough" for top tourneys, doesn't mean the unit isn't good. I mean just look at Craftworld Eldar. That book has TONS of "good" units that just do not make it to top tourney lists because they aren't Dark Reapers or Shining Spears in an Ynnari list.
If the standard of "good" is that it has to make it to tourney lists or don't bother, than yeah, Oblits must have been trash and even at 65ppm, Nublits might just make it to a list or 2.

But there is no way +1T, +1W, +2 shots isn't getting a points increase from GW on a unit that was at least "ok". Or at least, I cannot think of a similar example of such a thing every happening

-

Actually there is, remember the SW situation?
yeah the FAQ was delivered the same time with the book.
might very well be the case that they tried to test the water with shadowspear and realized that now nobody does take them anymore competitively so the price went on the chopping block.

The SW change had been decided on months ago, because non-english versions went to print with the "right" warlord traits. So it wasn't immediate and reactionary, and isn't a quick turnaround on the FAQ.

In addition, the new Chaos book also went to print well before there could have been any feedback on Shadowspear, probably before shadowspear was even announced.

Then why not instantly faq it?

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 quickfuze wrote:


Because they will get a bunch of sales on the kit while the points are low before the faq and then they will be shelved after.....not really hard to understand if you just factor in how shady GW really is

You mean the $180 "kit" that has alternate point values that were encountered BEFORE the codex was out?

What a dastardly plan! "Guys let's publish the wrong cost instead of just a low cost all around! That will definitely get more sales than just giving them a low cost!"

Uhhh - almost everyone I know has bought at least 1 shadowspear and I know many that have bought 2 and I bought 2 1/2. Most of these were purchased before chaos codex release. The oblitz being basically (just as effective but better in a lot of ways at 115) did not affect shadowspear sales...AT ALL. Now the longer they wait to clear up the obvious typo situation - you'll have more sales because of the OP pricing on oblitz after the initial rush to buy fades away. Plus with release of Lord Discoradent who buffs the venom crawlers you'll end up with. It will increase his sales too.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

The SW change had been decided on months ago, because non-english versions went to print with the "right" warlord traits. So it wasn't immediate and reactionary, and isn't a quick turnaround on the FAQ.

In addition, the new Chaos book also went to print well before there could have been any feedback on Shadowspear, probably before shadowspear was even announced.

Then why not instantly faq it?

Because they're probably going to this weekend. These processes aren't instantaneous in the first place, and there's probably more than just this one error in the book. So far, they've have an FAQ 2-weeks after every book, which seems to consist of a combination of proofreading and responses to knee-jerk reactions.

And in the grand scheme of things, 2 weeks is basically near instantaneous for problem resolution anyway, and isn't really long enough to inconvenience anyone anyway.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 quickfuze wrote:


Because they will get a bunch of sales on the kit while the points are low before the faq and then they will be shelved after.....not really hard to understand if you just factor in how shady GW really is

You mean the $180 "kit" that has alternate point values that were encountered BEFORE the codex was out?

What a dastardly plan! "Guys let's publish the wrong cost instead of just a low cost all around! That will definitely get more sales than just giving them a low cost!"

Uhhh - almost everyone I know has bought at least 1 shadowspear and I know many that have bought 2 and I bought 2 1/2. Most of these were purchased before chaos codex release. The oblitz being basically (just as effective but better in a lot of ways at 115) did not affect shadowspear sales...AT ALL. Now the longer they wait to clear up the obvious typo situation - you'll have more sales because of the OP pricing on oblitz after the initial rush to buy fades away. Plus with release of Lord Discoradent who buffs the venom crawlers you'll end up with. It will increase his sales too.

Cool story. So none of these people have any ability to look at that 115 and then go, "huh this is not the same points, maybe I should wait before buying more"? It's not like GW hasn't publicly stated several times that they release an FAQ two weeks after each codex.

These books were sent to print months ago, which is why the relic for fly over mortal wounds mentioned the fight phase.

It's not GW that is evil. It's that consumers are utterly stupid.

 Galef wrote:
Wait? When the feth were Oblits considered a bad unit? Did I miss a meta change that nerfed them?
I know they weren't taken by "top-tourney" players, but I was under the impression that Slaanesh Oblits + shoot twice was still a powerful combo.

Just because something isn't "good-enough" for top tourneys, doesn't mean the unit isn't good. I mean just look at Craftworld Eldar. That book has TONS of "good" units that just do not make it to top tourney lists because they aren't Dark Reapers or Shining Spears in an Ynnari list.
If the standard of "good" is that it has to make it to tourney lists or don't bother, than yeah, Oblits must have been trash and even at 65ppm, Nublits might just make it to a list or 2.

It was a "powerful combo" in that it was enough to allow Oblits to contest for a spot with Havocs, another not-so-great unit, and neither of them did particularly well anywhere. I don't mean bad as in "terrible garbage unit" or anything, but yeah, bad as in "competitively, this unit will hold you back from taking top tables". They needed a buff to be a good unit. They got one. Time will tell if it was too much, or if it was even intended, but as it stands I don't feel they are too broke at all.

 JNAProductions wrote:

 small_gods wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
"Clearly OP" is pretty subjective. I think it's CLEARLY fine, and this forum is doing what it did for Kelermorph in recent memory, and a ton of other gak prior. Oblits will be fine at this point cost. Ruling against things that you think is OP is a very dangerous attitude.

This isn't ruling against something that is OP though. It's ruling for common sense. Oblits got played in tournaments at their old points cost so were arguably competitive. To then give that unit 50% extra shooting, a wound, extra toughness and change then to be at least competent in mele and claim that it doesn't tip the balance too far is a strange assessment to make.

Don't get me wrong if I could get away with it I would take 9 to tournaments but if GW made a typo and gave gurdsmen 5 wounds each you would expect TOs to do something about it.

What tournaments were they played at?

Genuinely curious, since Shuppet claims they weren't, you claim they were, and I don't follow tournaments enough to know who's right.

I'm right. I went over their tournament success (or lack thereof) in depth in this thread a few months ago, and no events have changed that since. EVEN back when Oblits were at their utmost strongest competitively, not a single Oblit list could crack top 16 even at a GT where literally half of the top 16 was Chaos lists. They are simply not a competitive choice. They were one of the "trap" units in the CSM dex. beyond that, his logic simply doesn't make sense, and what he calls "common sense" is an good example of "what I sense being right" instead of what actually is. Everything including Giant Squigs gets played at tournaments. What's relevant is what does well at tournaments, and it's definitely not Obliterators.

People remember Obliterators for the times that they come down, then CSM player sinks a bunch of their best resources and other points into buffing them, and then they get to blow one thing up or put the hurt on a Knight, and it feels very explosive from the other side of the table. What they don't take into account is the resource investment, or all the times that they were neutered by random statline, or the fact that they were unable to do anything turn 1, or that they are basically a suicide unit that rarely has much impact beyond that - what sticks in the memory is that big turn that Oblits did go off, and the fact they had to kill or otherwise deal with this unit immediately, but not how easy it was to do so, or whether they'd have just been better off with a unit that does less damage but does it consistently, every turn, and without suiciding, or any sort of critical analysis. They are a great example of where the average players mindset is based often just based off "feel" and leads them to drastically misevaluating units.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

The SW change had been decided on months ago, because non-english versions went to print with the "right" warlord traits. So it wasn't immediate and reactionary, and isn't a quick turnaround on the FAQ.

In addition, the new Chaos book also went to print well before there could have been any feedback on Shadowspear, probably before shadowspear was even announced.

Then why not instantly faq it?

Because they're probably going to this weekend. These processes aren't instantaneous in the first place, and there's probably more than just this one error in the book. So far, they've have an FAQ 2-weeks after every book, which seems to consist of a combination of proofreading and responses to knee-jerk reactions.

And in the grand scheme of things, 2 weeks is basically near instantaneous for problem resolution anyway, and isn't really long enough to inconvenience anyone anyway.

Are you claiming an instant typo removal that is this mostlikely, takes a long time?

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

The SW change had been decided on months ago, because non-english versions went to print with the "right" warlord traits. So it wasn't immediate and reactionary, and isn't a quick turnaround on the FAQ.

In addition, the new Chaos book also went to print well before there could have been any feedback on Shadowspear, probably before shadowspear was even announced.

Then why not instantly faq it?

Because they're probably going to this weekend. These processes aren't instantaneous in the first place, and there's probably more than just this one error in the book. So far, they've have an FAQ 2-weeks after every book, which seems to consist of a combination of proofreading and responses to knee-jerk reactions.

And in the grand scheme of things, 2 weeks is basically near instantaneous for problem resolution anyway, and isn't really long enough to inconvenience anyone anyway.

Are you claiming an instant typo removal that is this mostlikely, takes a long time?

2 weeks isn't really a long time. You've played what, 2 games in that time?

Publishing a document isn't instantaneous; and actually finding out about and confirming that there is a problem takes longer than you think, too. It probably takes about 3-5 days to actually have a document, and they also want to publish other fixes in the document.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 quickfuze wrote:


Because they will get a bunch of sales on the kit while the points are low before the faq and then they will be shelved after.....not really hard to understand if you just factor in how shady GW really is

You mean the $180 "kit" that has alternate point values that were encountered BEFORE the codex was out?

What a dastardly plan! "Guys let's publish the wrong cost instead of just a low cost all around! That will definitely get more sales than just giving them a low cost!"

Uhhh - almost everyone I know has bought at least 1 shadowspear and I know many that have bought 2 and I bought 2 1/2. Most of these were purchased before chaos codex release. The oblitz being basically (just as effective but better in a lot of ways at 115) did not affect shadowspear sales...AT ALL. Now the longer they wait to clear up the obvious typo situation - you'll have more sales because of the OP pricing on oblitz after the initial rush to buy fades away. Plus with release of Lord Discoradent who buffs the venom crawlers you'll end up with. It will increase his sales too.

Cool story. So none of these people have any ability to look at that 115 and then go, "huh this is not the same points, maybe I should wait before buying more"? It's not like GW hasn't publicly stated several times that they release an FAQ two weeks after each codex.

These books were sent to print months ago, which is why the relic for fly over mortal wounds mentioned the fight phase.

It's not GW that is evil. It's that consumers are utterly stupid.

Why would they wait? 115 oblitz are everything the 65 point oblitz were (demonstrated ITT) - if you wanted oblitz the buff and points increase isn't stopping you. IF you want an OP unit - you are buying up shadow spears and for oblitz and venom crawlers (not OP but with lord discordant are going to be a top tier option) and even if it isn't top tier - it's just hype. People want stuff to play with it ASAP. GW sales are through the roof right now.

Yes - everything hinges on GW having a two week window for people to buy MORE of a $180 box. Fool proof plan.

I can name at least one person who wanted to buy old oblits, just because the codex buffed them and kept them at 65pts.
If you aren't an avid forum goer it can happen to you, and it is not like the dudes working at the store are going to tell someone wanting to buy extra boxs to not do it, because maybe it gets FAQed soon.

It may not be the main source of income for GW, but it can be extra money. I bought an entire army that way.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Yes - everything hinges on GW having a two week window for people to buy MORE of a $180 box. Fool proof plan.

What do you mean everything hinges? We are literally talking about changing or not changing a 65 to a 115. I'm not saying it was intentional. I'm saying it was an accident but they probably knew about it the second it hit the press. They are just waiting to fix it because it will generate sales. They could have done a hotfix as with the space wolf codex but it literally can't hurt them to wait.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Yes - everything hinges on GW having a two week window for people to buy MORE of a $180 box. Fool proof plan.

What do you mean everything hinges? We are literally talking about changing or not changing a 65 to a 115. I'm not saying it was intentional. I'm saying it was an accident but they probably knew about it the second it hit the press. They are just waiting to fix it because it will generate sales. They could have done a hotfix as with the space wolf codex but it literally can't hurt them to wait.

Except for the inevitable backlash when people get angry they pulled a Riot Games bait and switch, but I assume the beancounters have worked out that those sales outweigh the lost consumer confidence.

I hope I'm wrong, but I think they are waiting on the Spring FAQ to release the CSM shadowspear info, which may not drop till the very end of April, if this month at all... Remember waiting for the last Big FAQ?

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Yes - everything hinges on GW having a two week window for people to buy MORE of a $180 box. Fool proof plan.

What do you mean everything hinges? We are literally talking about changing or not changing a 65 to a 115. I'm not saying it was intentional. I'm saying it was an accident but they probably knew about it the second it hit the press. They are just waiting to fix it because it will generate sales. They could have done a hotfix as with the space wolf codex but it literally can't hurt them to wait.

Literally can't hurt everyone else to wait to weeks, either.

There isn't this large swath of Schrodinger's neck beard who is both simultaneously not aware of the 2 week FAQ window and who is also concerned about being competitive that's running out to buy more in total confidence.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
I hope I'm wrong, but I think they are waiting on the Spring FAQ to release the CSM shadowspear info, which may not drop till the very end of April, if this month at all... Remember waiting for the last Big FAQ?

I remember it, because the bitching started on March 2nd. The last one waited for the tournament as well and came out April 16th. I'd bet on early next week.

Shuppet is still claiming that oblits weren't used in top tournament lists when I know for a fact they where.

Though not techniqually a GT (it was 4 RTTs combined giving 12 games), the Louisiana state series of RTT's had the 2nd place winner using Abadon, cultists spam, and oblits for his army and he did quite well with them.

Granted things have changed a lot since then (that was first year of 8th edition afterall).


EDIT: math

 Eihnlazer wrote:
Shuppet is still claiming that oblits weren't used in top tournament lists when I know for a fact they where.

Though not techniqually a GT (it was 4 RTTs combined giving 16 games), the Louisiana state series of RTT's had the 2nd place winner using Abadon, cultists spam, and oblits for his army and he did quite well with them.

Granted things have changed a lot since then (that was first year of 8th edition afterall).

A lot has changed since then. I'm not sure I'm comfortable with them at 65. 115 seems to be too much, too. Maybe more like 90.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Eihnlazer wrote:
Shuppet is still claiming that oblits weren't used in top tournament lists when I know for a fact they where.

Though not techniqually a GT (it was 4 RTTs combined giving 16 games), the Louisiana state series of RTT's had the 2nd place winner using Abadon, cultists spam, and oblits for his army and he did quite well with them.

Granted things have changed a lot since then (that was first year of 8th edition afterall).

A lot has changed since then. I'm not sure I'm comfortable with them at 65. 115 seems to be too much, too. Maybe more like 90.

Agreed. 90-100ppm seems the sweet spot for them. 65ppm is too low, and given the order of releases is VERY likely a typo, but 115ppm is too high and looks very much like GW being too cautious with a new "untested" unit.
It's a similar reason WKs were over 100pts too expensive at the start of 8E: GW didn't want them to be OP like they were in 7E and over nerfed them

GW has gotten much better at not overreacted with changes to units (which is great with the rate the changes come) but 115ppm seems like a return to old habits

-

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Yes - everything hinges on GW having a two week window for people to buy MORE of a $180 box. Fool proof plan.

What do you mean everything hinges? We are literally talking about changing or not changing a 65 to a 115. I'm not saying it was intentional. I'm saying it was an accident but they probably knew about it the second it hit the press. They are just waiting to fix it because it will generate sales. They could have done a hotfix as with the space wolf codex but it literally can't hurt them to wait.

Literally can't hurt everyone else to wait to weeks, either.

There isn't this large swath of Schrodinger's neck beard who is both simultaneously not aware of the 2 week FAQ window and who is also concerned about being competitive that's running out to buy more in total confidence.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
I hope I'm wrong, but I think they are waiting on the Spring FAQ to release the CSM shadowspear info, which may not drop till the very end of April, if this month at all... Remember waiting for the last Big FAQ?

I remember it, because the bitching started on March 2nd. The last one waited for the tournament as well and came out April 16th. I'd bet on early next week.

It can hurt tournament results. These Oblitz at 65 points are freaking auto win LOL.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Galef wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Eihnlazer wrote:
Shuppet is still claiming that oblits weren't used in top tournament lists when I know for a fact they where.

Though not techniqually a GT (it was 4 RTTs combined giving 16 games), the Louisiana state series of RTT's had the 2nd place winner using Abadon, cultists spam, and oblits for his army and he did quite well with them.

Granted things have changed a lot since then (that was first year of 8th edition afterall).

A lot has changed since then. I'm not sure I'm comfortable with them at 65. 115 seems to be too much, too. Maybe more like 90.

Agreed. 90-100ppm seems the sweet spot for them. 65ppm is too low, and given the order of releases is VERY likely a typo, but 115ppm is too high and looks very much like GW being too cautious with a new "untested" unit.
It's a similar reason WKs were over 100pts too expensive at the start of 8E: GW didn't want them to be OP like they were in 7E and over nerfed them

GW has gotten much better at not overreacted with changes to units (which is great with the rate the changes come) but 115ppm seems like a return to old habits

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While I agree 115 is too high for them as a base cost. I know this unit is going to be hitting on 2's rerolling 1's and wounding on 2's or 3's rerolling 1's and shooting twice. So being 15% overcosted is not a big deal. It shouldn't work that way but until stratagems balance/CP gen are fixed - it is literally the ONLY option.

You realise that this is the exact reasoning behind overpriced sm and csm equipment right?

The problem with NuOblits at 65ppm it that it makes so many units look absolutely stupid and terrible. I mean, they where terrible and bad before, but that just makes them look even worse. 26-32 (I don't remember) ppm terminators with combibolters and powerfist? 100+ point Dreadnoughts? If Oblits cost that with that firepower, statline, and combo potential, Dreadnoughts should cost something like 70-75ppm and Terminators something like 20 ppm.

I won't even mention Centurions because ... yeah.

And the problem is not about how those units probably deserve to be that point cost. Is about how are we reaching that point where those units that were supposed to be expensive but good, need to be so cheap, and have so powerfull statlines to compete.

But thats what will end up happening when you balance a game in a non-stop race to the top instead of a race to the middle. You keep making things better and better until you reach such extremes.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Literally can't hurt everyone else to wait to weeks, either.

This, seriously, it's been nearly two years, how are people not familiar with the pattern? I've bought a few things since the new codex dropped, MoP, some Greater Possessed, new Abaddon sculpt, mostly stuff that I was pretty certain would not be radically changing. NOTHING is certain until it's FAQ'd, it does not matter what was printed in your codex, if you buy before the FAQ you're buying a pretty model and hoping for the best.