Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

It was nice to see Danaeries finally get to cut loose without the writers coming up with ways to hold her back. Pity she had gone mad from all the times they yanked her around over the past couple seasons.

Also, was anyone else expecting Arya's horse to be killed right in front of her, after all of that buildup?

Danny's been jonesing to burn a city full of screaming people since the Masters returned way back when so I'm not at all surprised she's going Mad Queen now.

They're telegraphing Arya killing her so hard I half expect Danny to kill her instead.

Frankly I'm pretty satisfied to see Cersei go out a sniveling coward.

CLEGANEBOWL did not disappoint.

All of these things I like but the tissue in between is so janky I'm very ready to see it all end. Probably will not be watching the spinoffs.

Will still keep HBO though; just watched the first episode of Chernobyl, and it's fantastic.

OMG I forgot that was on! Thank you for bringing that up, because the first episode was amazing.

God I love her. If Arya kills her I'll be disappointed.


Jaime needing that Bad P*ssy character arc.

Enjoyed episode 5. Bit of a slow starter but grand once it got going.

I'm glad I sorta got Cleganebowl with Sandor using fire to kill Gregor, even if he was only really going for gravity and the fire was a bonus. Unsure about the Ramirez vs Kurgan homage nature of the fight itself.

Can't decide whether the sledgehammered Arya Kills Dany setup is a massive red herring or just straight up transparency to make it satisfying when it happens.

 Crazy_Carnifex wrote:
It was nice to see Danaeries finally get to cut loose without the writers coming up with ways to hold her back. Pity she had gone mad from all the times they yanked her around over the past couple seasons.

Also, was anyone else expecting Arya's horse to be killed right in front of her, after all of that buildup?

Um, the last couple seasons? They've been telegraphing this threat from the beginning.

s1 Dany: 'The dragon feeds on horse and lamb alike'. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HODbArKGUIQ
s1 Robert Baratheon goes on about a Dothraki invasion. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OitYP2MTYMg


Also, consider the following about Daenyrs. She grew up in an exile with a physically and emotionally abusive brother that prattled on endlessly about how their family was betrayed and that they must recover their Iron Throne. Over time she learned that he was an emotionally broken fool as well as that her father was fething bonkers and hated, but Rhaegar was loved and respected by all. So of the Targaryens she knows of, who is she going to attempt to emulate? Rhaegar.

She's basically sold into what amounts to sexual slavery with the only saving grace being that Drogo is only rapist in her life and that he loves her (and she loves him) in their own convoluted beyond all reason ways. Then her life promptly gets worse. Her beloved brother goes off the deep end about how she is loved, but not him and threatens to carve the baby out of her belly so Drogo offs him. Then Dany attempts to save an old woman from being gang raped and murdered, but the old woman is less than grateful and proceeds to render Drogo catatonic and kills her baby. So Dany does what any reasonable person would do and torches every bloody thing.

Recap by the end of Book 1:

Grows up poor and in exile where she is abused by her brother.
Basically sold into sexual slavery.
Brother threatens to kill her baby and she watches her husband/master kill her brother and the only other living Targaryen.
Attempts to help a refugee women and is betrayed when the woman essentially kills her husband/master and unborn child.

By the end of book 1 she's already endured more suffering than basically any other character in GoT even through season 8. It gets worse. She travels to Qarth and is betrayed by Mister X who had pretended to be her friend and by her translator/sex-teacher that had been with her since the 'beginning'. Of course she kills them both.

Then she proceeds to kill some slavers and frees the Unsullied. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__dJFwZ121U
It's not unreasonable to say she's operating on a different level or morality by this point. Normally people have qualms about killing others, even if that other is an evil PoS. She's past those mortal frailties and is starting to power trip (hence the titles). We all eat it up cause feth yeah, kill those slavers.

She then spends the s3 - s6 screwing around in Essos where she tries to free some slaves, but not all the slaves are happy about it, an uprising starts, some of her BFFs like Barristan Selmy get killed, oh, ,and she finds out dear Jorah was a traitorous bastard as well who had arranged to have her assassinated indirectly.

Season 6 e9 contrains the following quote from Daenyrs: 'I will crucify the masters, I will set their fleets on fire, I will kill every last one of their soldiers and return their cities to the dirt.' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Yt9UlPbTMs

By the end of s6 she's been betrayed multiple times, suffered the loss of friends and family, had her 'generosities' rejected, and killed a lot of people, particularly with Dragonfire. She was ready to be the 'Mad Queen' before ever coming to Westeros, she was simply trying to be cool about it and win hearts and minds.

Then over s7/s8 she loses two dragons, Missandie, Jorah, a massive part of her army, is betrayed by Cersei, is betrayed by Jon, is betrayed by Varys, is betrayed by Tyrion, and basically alone in a foreign land where no one loves her. She didn't go mad so much as stop caring about the opinions of sheep.

I really enjoyed it, and look forward to giving it a proper watch again tonight, on my big teevee.

I'm particularly enthused, as it looks like we're building up to a pyrrhic victory. Jon doesn't want The Throne. But can he really back Dany now? Dany has The North on-side for now. But once battle lust subsides, and they realise what she did? Who knows?

I cannot see Dany surviving to the end. She has to be toast, surely? And even if she isn't, she won't be Queen of the Andals and the First Men. She'll just be Queen of the Ashes.

 trexmeyer wrote:
She didn't go mad so much as stop caring about the opinions of sheep.

Seeing people as sheep ticks the mad checkbox if you ask me.

Well if she had just burned the Red Keep to the ground when she wanted to non of this would of happened. So basically Dany is blameless. The true Queen. The people of king's landing cheered when Ned Stark's head was cut off, the Northmen reaction was perhaps distasteful but to be expected in the heat of battle.

 Gael Knight wrote:
Well if she had just burned the Red Keep to the ground when she wanted to non of this would of happened. So basically Dany is blameless. The true Queen. The people of king's landing cheered when Ned Stark's head was cut off, the Northmen reaction was perhaps distasteful but to be expected in the heat of battle.

When you kill non combatants you are evil, period. When you do it after the battle has ended, you're plain lunatic.

topaxygouroun i wrote:

 Gael Knight wrote:
Well if she had just burned the Red Keep to the ground when she wanted to non of this would of happened. So basically Dany is blameless. The true Queen. The people of king's landing cheered when Ned Stark's head was cut off, the Northmen reaction was perhaps distasteful but to be expected in the heat of battle.

When you kill non combatants you are evil, period. When you do it after the battle has ended, you're plain lunatic.

Say that to the mother of dragons, not online, see what happens.

 Gael Knight wrote:

topaxygouroun i wrote:

 Gael Knight wrote:
Well if she had just burned the Red Keep to the ground when she wanted to non of this would of happened. So basically Dany is blameless. The true Queen. The people of king's landing cheered when Ned Stark's head was cut off, the Northmen reaction was perhaps distasteful but to be expected in the heat of battle.

When you kill non combatants you are evil, period. When you do it after the battle has ended, you're plain lunatic.

Say that to the mother of dragons, not online, see what happens.

I think I'll send my queen in the North to transfer the message.

If we get cripsy Sansa because of this GoT will be GOAT. Overnight turn around. BRAVO D&D!

The other queen. The one that's actually worth her salt.

Arya gets yeeted by Drogon.

topaxygouroun i wrote:

 trexmeyer wrote:
She didn't go mad so much as stop caring about the opinions of sheep.

Seeing people as sheep ticks the mad checkbox if you ask me.

Dumbass memery aside - yeah this.

She's either totally wonko, or a complete psychopath. There's no rational argument otherwise any more(not that there ever really was). These weren't enemy leaders who refused to kneel, they weren't soldiers, they weren't opposing her in any way, they just happened to live in the city where she finally lost control of herself. She's a maniac, and I very much hope she gets what she deserves, though I can't decide if I prefer the obvious versions - Arya shoving her dagger through Dany's eye - or the version that would make her simpering fans go the most batgak crazy - Jon the Bad Man Who Is A Man And So Bad using his metaphorical sword to claim the throne, walks up and just takes her dragon off her because he's a more rightful Targaryen ruler, and then using his literal sword to execute the Mad Queen.

I think it has to be Jon.

He didn't get to kill the Night King. He doesn't get to kill a undead Dragon. He didn't kill Cersi. Jon needs a big bad to slay even if it's reluctant.

Jon did what Arya's been preaching. He literally said to the god of death "Not today."

I dunno. The way this show goes this season, I wouldn't be surprised if she finally died because she stepped on a fallen rock and tumbled down the stairs or something.

Jon will kill Dany and go and live out his days in the North being truly disgusted by everything and everyone around him.

The people of King's Landing got some dragon payback. They cheered Ned being beheaded. That's justice.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Yodhrin wrote:

topaxygouroun i wrote:

 trexmeyer wrote:
She didn't go mad so much as stop caring about the opinions of sheep.

Seeing people as sheep ticks the mad checkbox if you ask me.

Dumbass memery aside - yeah this.

She's either totally wonko, or a complete psychopath. There's no rational argument otherwise any more(not that there ever really was). These weren't enemy leaders who refused to kneel, they weren't soldiers, they weren't opposing her in any way, they just happened to live in the city where she finally lost control of herself. She's a maniac, and I very much hope she gets what she deserves, though I can't decide if I prefer the obvious versions - Arya shoving her dagger through Dany's eye - or the version that would make her simpering fans go the most batgak crazy - Jon the Bad Man Who Is A Man And So Bad using his metaphorical sword to claim the throne, walks up and just takes her dragon off her because he's a more rightful Targaryen ruler, and then using his literal sword to execute the Mad Queen.

You do realise that all of Dany's fans seem to have universally hated this direction for their Queen? They don't seem to care at this point looking at the online reaction.

 Gael Knight wrote:
Jon will kill Dany and go and live out his days in the North being truly disgusted by everything and everyone around him.

The people of King's Landing got some dragon payback. They cheered Ned being beheaded. That's justice.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Yodhrin wrote:

topaxygouroun i wrote:

 trexmeyer wrote:
She didn't go mad so much as stop caring about the opinions of sheep.

Seeing people as sheep ticks the mad checkbox if you ask me.

Dumbass memery aside - yeah this.

She's either totally wonko, or a complete psychopath. There's no rational argument otherwise any more(not that there ever really was). These weren't enemy leaders who refused to kneel, they weren't soldiers, they weren't opposing her in any way, they just happened to live in the city where she finally lost control of herself. She's a maniac, and I very much hope she gets what she deserves, though I can't decide if I prefer the obvious versions - Arya shoving her dagger through Dany's eye - or the version that would make her simpering fans go the most batgak crazy - Jon the Bad Man Who Is A Man And So Bad using his metaphorical sword to claim the throne, walks up and just takes her dragon off her because he's a more rightful Targaryen ruler, and then using his literal sword to execute the Mad Queen.

You do realise that all of Dany's fans seem to have universally hated this direction for their Queen? They don't seem to care at this point looking at the online reaction.

Yes I know, that's the main reason I'm enjoying it so much. But if the showrunners have the guts to follow through on the Mad Queen hints AND end up killing off Yaass Khaleesi to replace her with a man who is male? That will be the story that launched a thousand "think"pieces and the raging will be highly, highly entertaining.

Honestly I'm not sure they will, the backlash from people who still don't seem capable of grasping that who you are is less important than what you do would be immense, I expect Sansa will end up Queen in the North, and either just flat out Queen of the Seven Kingdoms, or they'll stick Gendry or somesuch on the throne down-south.

What about daenerys dies, dragon goes ham on the humans, burns them all, a dark age for humanity begins as Jon falls unconscious. When he wakes up, he's tied up in a cart going for execution along with three other guys. "Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim" appears on the screen.

You madman Todd Howard, you did it again!

Honestly I think the best arc for Jon (at this point) is just rejecting it all. The Northern folk raping and murdering seems to have broken him a little. He had the best expectations but it constantly explodes in his face. Perhaps he learns his lesson.

Arya killing Dany will just be another "Yass Queen, slay!" moment imho which is why I don't want it to happen.

In other news apparently the books are finished but GRRM has agreed not to speak about it until the show is done.




Based Barristan.

Plot went where it should mostly but didn’t payout like it should without the right setup. Enjoyed the episode for what it was but disappointed the heel turn didn’t feel right in the moment.

I can see Arya coming to off Dany, but Jon stepping in to do it because he's all Ned Stark 2.0.

That then creates a convenient situation where Jon came grump off to the Wall, or more likely away from Westeros on Drogon, tying up the issue of what happens to the dragon.

With Kings Landing burnt and the armies of the south decimated, Winterfell effectively becomes the de facto capital anyway, perhaps Sansa and Tyrion end up ruling together in some fashion, since they've made the effort to establish mutual respect between the characters.

 LunarSol wrote:
Plot went where it should mostly but didn’t payout like it should without the right setup. Enjoyed the episode for what it was but disappointed the heel turn didn’t feel right in the moment.

Yeah, pretty much this. While the writers can point to this or that action as foreshadowing for her heel turn, they spent too much time in between making her smiling, friendly Dany with the big heart. Books Daenerys isn't as likeable -- she comes off like a selfish, spoiled teen IMO -- and I hazard to guess her heel turn won't be as jarring. I'm sure the writers will be *extremely* defensive about this -- and they've already been that this season -- but they really need to own it. They fed and pandered to 'Team Daenerys' more than they should have, and now their story has suffered for it.

But my first thought after the ep was about how little story really matters. We think it does, living in the age of 'prestige TV'. And GoT was very much in that category in all phases in the early seasons. But you can do ridiculous ratings just by having things get blow'd up with really high production values. That's where GoT has been at for a few seasons now, and last night was just the exclamation point. There was something almost 'meta' about it, really.

Somewhere, GRRM is lighting up a fat cigar and thinking about how plenty of people will still pony up to read HIS ending. Great googly moogly, show Euron was so awful from concept to execution that it has me half-interested in reading more of GRRM's Iron Islands-Greyjoy politics, just because it won't be as colossally stupid. Okay, maybe not half. A quarter. Maybe less. But still!




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Baragash wrote:
I can see Arya coming to off Dany, but Jon stepping in to do it because he's all Ned Stark 2.0.

That then creates a convenient situation where Jon came grump off to the Wall, or more likely away from Westeros on Drogon, tying up the issue of what happens to the dragon.

With Kings Landing burnt and the armies of the south decimated, Winterfell effectively becomes the de facto capital anyway, perhaps Sansa and Tyrion end up ruling together in some fashion, since they've made the effort to establish mutual respect between the characters.

If this is really 'GRRM's ending', then yeah, I see that as highly likely. The showrunners tossed out all prophecy and such, but GRRM probably won't, and Daenerys makes sense as Nissa Nissa. Wonder if her blood will make Longclaw ignite?

Anyway, I figure Gendry on the Iron Throne with Tyrion as his hand. Arya lives and her relationship with him also helps cement the ties with the North, whether that's through marriage or just plain ol' respect and understanding.

Generally speaking though, there's not much left of the seven kingdoms to rule. Whoever sits on the throne, they won't be commanding much.

Iron Throne should be melted into slag and the 7 kingdoms are broken up to run themselves.

 infinite_array wrote:

 nels1031 wrote:
I’m so ready for it to end...

And what was Arya's purpose supposed to be? She doesn't kill Cersei, but she does get a bunch of innocent people killed, and then wastes five minutes of my life staring at a horse before frakking off into the sunset.

I watched the after-episode synopsis, and they said that ayra's purpose in that episode was to be a tour guide through the madness, they likened her to virgil from dante's inferno - a guide for us, the audience, through hell. Which worked well enough, I suppose.

That being said, I loved the scene where she was all 'YOU'RE GOING TO DIE IN HERE COME WITH ME', drags someone out, they instantly die.

 Lance845 wrote:
Iron Throne should be melted into slag and the 7 kingdoms are broken up to run themselves.

Strong possibility. Mildly curious if we’ll see a Gaeas ending here.

At this point I watch the episodes with my friends just to laugh at them.

And I have to admit the memes of this one are delicious





I thinks this is the first time I have seen so clear how everything can be perfect but when the writers sucks it just makes all the other genuinely very good work, pointless