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Made in us
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot






Iowa

Asmodios wrote:
If I remember someone just placed top 10 or top 16 at adeptacon with an all MT force. So they are definitely playable and if your looking for inspiration I’d go have a look at his list

It wasn’t all MT. It was MT, Valhallans, and Castellan.

If the truth can destroy it, then it deserves to be destroyed. 
   
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 Apple Peel wrote:
pm713 wrote:
 Apple Peel wrote:
 Peregrine wrote:
 Jancoran wrote:
Understood and agreed on the Vultures.

I simply do not like Forge World. Never have. Really cool models though.


I suppose if you stubbornly refuse to use something out of weird principles you can just lose games because of it. Storm troopers without FW flyers are a one-dimensional army and pretty terrible.

I also don’t use FW flyers for my list up above. I never want to be turned down a game for them, so I don’t take them. If I ever wanted to try them, I will proxy.

Why would you be turned down? Saying you won't play because of a Forgeworld model is like me saying I won't play you because you're using Imperial Guard.

There is a still-existing stigma about FW, you know?

Honestly, no. Nobody I've ever met has had an issue like that and it seems stupid to me.

tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam  
   
Made in jp
Longtime Dakkanaut





pm713 wrote:

Why would you be turned down? Saying you won't play because of a Forgeworld model is like me saying I won't play you because you're using Imperial Guard.


There are quite a few reasons, but let's not get on a tangent that will sidetrack this thread like Forgeworld always does here.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
pm713 wrote:
 Apple Peel wrote:

Why would you be turned down? Saying you won't play because of a Forgeworld model is like me saying I won't play you because you're using Imperial Guard.

There is a still-existing stigma about FW, you know?

Honestly, no. Nobody I've ever met has had an issue like that and it seems stupid to me.


Then you haven't met many groups. FW is rather unpopular in quite a few places still, and for some very good reasons.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/04/10 13:57:42


 
   
Made in gb
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I cannot imagine any good reasons for banning forgeworld for being forgeworld.

tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam  
   
Made in jp
Longtime Dakkanaut





pm713 wrote:
I cannot imagine any good reasons for banning forgeworld for being forgeworld.


Can we not discuss this here?
   
Made in us
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Yeah, FW is part of the game. It's like saying "I'm not gonna play your X" when x is from the codex

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Made in us
Shas'o Commanding the Hunter Kadre




Olympia, WA

 Apple Peel wrote:
 Peregrine wrote:
 Jancoran wrote:
Understood and agreed on the Vultures.

I simply do not like Forge World. Never have. Really cool models though.


I suppose if you stubbornly refuse to use something out of weird principles you can just lose games because of it. Storm troopers without FW flyers are a one-dimensional army and pretty terrible.

I also don’t use FW flyers for my list up above. I never want to be turned down a game for them, so I don’t take them. If I ever wanted to try them, I will proxy.


I have had Peregrine on ignore for a very long time so i never see anything he posts unless you repost it. Just an FYI.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
pm713 wrote:

Why would you be turned down? Saying you won't play because of a Forgeworld model is like me saying I won't play you because you're using Imperial Guard.


Lots of people don't play you if you use Forge World. And for good reason. I personally dont turn them down because I play in the ITC and i just have to accept it. But in my other games, no one ever brings it against me just because they know i dislike it so much. Out of respect they don't. But I've never really told them not to. I just tell them that if they DO bring Forge World, i am likely going to table them for it. =)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
pm713 wrote:
I cannot imagine any good reasons for banning forgeworld for being forgeworld.

Most of my tournaments ban it when I am running them. theres some die hards who choose not to go to the events, and that's their choice. I put up with it in my games but... Not when Im running events. Part of running events is building community and newer players and mediocre players just dont need that kind of pressure. hard enough to learn to win as it is.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Mmmpi wrote:
pm713 wrote:
I cannot imagine any good reasons for banning forgeworld for being forgeworld.


Can we not discuss this here?


You are wise. I will cut my commentary off there. This should stay about Militarum Tempestus. I just felt it necessary to respond, but really, I've said all that needs to be said.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just a reminder of my original questions (with list provided for context) from the original post:
1. Is anyone out there playing Militarum Tempestus that I can Knoodle with on army ideas or just to BS about it.

2. How has the Deep Striking limitation affected your Militarum Tempestus force? Is it the absolute death knell of the army in competitive play or is it hyperbole as i suspected it to be?

3. Castellan + IG opposition: Should i just deploy everything turn one?

4. Shining Spear Ynnari: ideas on how to counter that? Is my sheer numbers enough of a defense sicne they really can only kill a couple things a round? Stratagies that might be great against them?

5. Orks: My army has a massive volume of low STR shooting but no Psyker defense and so i am also interested in how you might counter the Lootaspam and Jumping Bean attacks. Are my Rough Riders decent enough shielding? Should i make him go first? Or should i press the advantage of my volume of shooting? Deploy on the field or DS around his crazy pants jumps?

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2019/04/10 17:41:55


Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
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On moon miranda.

 Jancoran wrote:
I just tell them that if they DO bring Forge World, i am likely going to table them for it. =)
Given how almost the entire catalog of FW stuff is competitively garbage, and almost none of it appears in any major tournament lists (particularly as any sort of consistent competitive centerpiece), that's probably not terribly difficult (nor does it sound like a fun mindset to play with). My DKoK Grenadier list (an MT equivalent) is an absolute garbage tier softball next to an actual Codex list.



Most of my tournaments ban it when I am running them. theres some die hards who choose not to go to the events, and that's their choice. I put up with it in my games but... Not when Im running events. Part of running events is building community and newer players and mediocre players just dont need that kind of pressure. hard enough to learn to win as it is.
The pressure of a slate of intentionally overcosted units is putting pressure on new players? A slate that has never had a major dominating competitive effect (bar a couple units that get nerfed within months, unlike Codex releases) in *any* edition, and where the rules and costings are now entirely done by the primary GW studio?

Curious how the rest of the planet doesn't seem to have see that pressure

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/04/10 17:50:32


IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.

New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights!
The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.  
   
Made in us
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Olympia, WA

 Vaktathi wrote:

Curious how the rest of the planet doesn't seem to have see that pressure


You speak for the rest of the planet? Impressive.

Now lets talk about Militarum Tempestus some more.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/04/10 17:53:03


Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com

7th Ambassadorial Grand Tournament Registration: http://40kambassadors.com/register.php 
   
Made in us
Imperial Guard Landspeeder Pilot




On moon miranda.

 Jancoran wrote:
 Vaktathi wrote:

Curious how the rest of the planet doesn't seem to have see that pressure


You speak for the rest of the planet? Impressive.
Given that the overwhelming bulk of events on the rest of the planet have no such issues with FW, I don't feel uncomfortable stating that such "pressure" does not appear to be an issue.


Now lets talk about Militarum Tempestus some more.
You posted for list feedback in General Discussion regarding competitive Stormtrooper armies. Given the nature of the army and the interaction of keywords within it, FW flyers are often going to be a component of that as they provide supporting fire elements otherwise unavailable to the force within the same detachment, and have a place to be Generally Discussed, along with comments relating to such. They certainly have at least as much place as remnant Index units like Rough Riders that likewise aren't included in the Codex and have no current models outside of FW themselves.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/04/10 18:06:17


IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.

New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights!
The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.  
   
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FW is not "bad" it's just that guyish.

We have a local gaming store that does magic and D&D, and 1 night a month I think they do 40k/AoS. There is ALWAYS a guy who brings the Astraeus Super-Heavy Detachment. Which on the scale of that guy, is a Trump Level move.

It means I paid 10x what your models cost for my models, and I deserve to win. It's pay2win in a boardgame.
   
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On moon miranda.

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
FW is not "bad" it's just that guyish.

We have a local gaming store that does magic and D&D, and 1 night a month I think they do 40k/AoS. There is ALWAYS a guy who brings the Astraeus Super-Heavy Detachment. Which on the scale of that guy, is a Trump Level move.

It means I paid 10x what your models cost for my models, and I deserve to win. It's pay2win in a boardgame.
The Astraeus is hardly considered a competitive powerhouse, it's practically nonexistent in Tournaments. I don't even think it's possible to fit a Superheavy Detachment of Astraeus tanks into a typical game. The cheapest they get is 695pts IIRC, meaning unless you're playing at least 2100pts it's not possible, and that's without any screening units, ObSec objective nabbers, etc.

More to the point, while I'm sure a trio of Astraeus tanks would not be fun for some, you can make dramatically more powerful Superheavy forces with standard Codex builds, either with Knights or IG, at far lower points levels. A trio of Baneblade chassis tanks with 60 ObSec screener infantry in two battalion detachments is probably going to ruin a whole lot more days and can potentially be made to fit into a 1600pt game, and you can pack a trio of Baneblade chassis tanks or Knights in a 1250pt game if you really want.

I really don't see where the "pay2win" aspect comes in, particularly when the core GW studio appears to be responsible for rules and points costs of FW stuff these days.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/04/10 18:57:16


IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.

New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights!
The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.  
   
Made in us
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 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
FW is not "bad" it's just that guyish.

We have a local gaming store that does magic and D&D, and 1 night a month I think they do 40k/AoS. There is ALWAYS a guy who brings the Astraeus Super-Heavy Detachment. Which on the scale of that guy, is a Trump Level move.

It means I paid 10x what your models cost for my models, and I deserve to win. It's pay2win in a boardgame.


... you realize the Astraeus isn't really that good for it's points cost? Its easier to kill than a Castellan (or any Knight really), and while it's got some decent firepower, its 700 points, it really should have that level of firepower. Its not overpowered at all, and certainly not pay2win.

A lot of people who have issues with forgeworld models I feel don't really consider if the models are actually overpowered vs the cost.
   
Made in us
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Olympia, WA

 Vaktathi wrote:


You posted for list feedback in General Discussion regarding competitive Stormtrooper armies. Given the nature of the army and the interaction of keywords within it, FW flyers are often going to be a component of that as they provide supporting fire elements otherwise unavailable to the force within the same detachment, and have a place to be Generally Discussed, along with comments relating to such. They certainly have at least as much place as remnant Index units like Rough Riders that likewise aren't included in the Codex and have no current models outside of FW themselves.


I actually didnt post the list for feedback but for context.
What I DID do was offer these questions:
My questions are:

1. Is anyone out there playing Militarum Tempestus that I can Knoodle with on army ideas or just to BS about it.

2. How has the Deep Striking limitation affected your Militarum Tempestus force? Is it the absolute death knell of the army in competitive play or is it hyperbole as i suspected it to be?

3. Castellan + IG opposition: Should i just deploy everything turn one?

4. Shining Spear Ynnari: ideas on how to counter that? Is my sheer numbers enough of a defense sicne they really can only kill a couple things a round? Stratagies that might be great against them?

5. Orks: My army has a massive volume of low STR shooting but no Psyker defense and so i am also interested in how you might counter the Lootaspam and Jumping Bean attacks. Are my Rough Riders decent enough shielding? Should i make him go first? Or should i press the advantage of my volume of shooting? Deploy on the field or DS around his crazy pants jumps?

Aside from those questions, people also offered feedback on the list which was a nice bonus and is helping as i have just made a change based on input.
Given the new Vigilus information, planes must be discussed butthat wasn't the debate really. it was Vultures specifically, which I simply refuse to do because they ARE broken and I don't need the help ofForge World to win my games... I save a lot of money that way; but its a very valid answer and I accorded the answer the respect it deserved. Yes. Vultures would be EXCELLENT. No I'm not going to do it.

Valkyries could be borrowed if i was to want to do that so... I will definitely have to consider that.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

New and improved:

Spoiler:

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum)++

Regimental Doctrine: Regiment: Millitarum Tempestus

Tempestor Prime [3 PL, 45pts]: Chainsword, Tempestus Command Rod

Tempestor Prime [3 PL, 45pts]: Chainsword, Tempestus Command Rod

Militarum Tempestus Scions [5 PL, 142pts]
. 4x Scion
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Hot-shot Volley Gun
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Hot-shot Volley Gun
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Meltagun
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Meltagun
. Scion w/ Vox-caster: Vox-caster
. Tempestor: Chainsword, Plasma pistol

Militarum Tempestus Scions [5 PL, 136pts]
. 4x Scion
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Hot-shot Volley Gun
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Hot-shot Volley Gun
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun
. Scion w/ Vox-caster: Vox-caster
. Tempestor: Chainsword, Plasma pistol

Militarum Tempestus Scions [5 PL, 142pts]
. 4x Scion
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Hot-shot Volley Gun
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Hot-shot Volley Gun
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Meltagun
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Meltagun
. Scion w/ Vox-caster: Vox-caster
. Tempestor: Chainsword, Plasma pistol

Militarum Tempestus Command Squad [3 PL, 92pts]
. Tempestus Scion: Meltagun
. Tempestus Scion: Meltagun
. Tempestus Scion: Meltagun
. Tempestus Scion: Meltagun

Militarum Tempestus Command Squad [3 PL, 92pts]
. Tempestus Scion: Meltagun
. Tempestus Scion: Meltagun
. Tempestus Scion: Meltagun
. Tempestus Scion: Meltagun



Taurox Prime [6 PL, 114pts]: Storm Bolter, Taurox Battle Cannon, Two Hot-shot Volley Guns



++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum) ++

Regimental Doctrine: Regiment: Millitarum Tempestus

Tempestor Prime [3 PL, 45pts]: Chainsword, Tempestus Command Rod

Primaris Psyker [3 PL, 46Pts]: Force Stave

Militarum Tempestus Scions [5 PL, 136pts]
. 4x Scion
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Hot-shot Volley Gun
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Hot-shot Volley Gun
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun
. Scion w/ Vox-caster: Vox-caster
. Tempestor: Chainsword, Plasma pistol

Militarum Tempestus Scions [5 PL, 136pts]
. 4x Scion
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Hot-shot Volley Gun
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Hot-shot Volley Gun
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun
. Scion w/ Vox-caster: Vox-caster
. Tempestor: Chainsword, Plasma pistol

Militarum Tempestus Scions [5 PL, 136pts]
. 4x Scion
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Hot-shot Volley Gun
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Hot-shot Volley Gun
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun
. Scion w/ Vox-caster: Vox-caster
. Tempestor: Chainsword, Plasma pistol

Militarum Tempestus Command Squad [3 PL, 86pts]
. Tempestus Scion: Meltagun
. Tempestus Scion: Meltagun
. Tempestus Scion: Plasma gun
. Tempestus Scion: Plasma gun



++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum) ++

Regimental Doctrine: Regiment: Cadian

Company Commander [2 PL, 34pts]: Laspistol, Power sword

Company Commander [2 PL, 30pts]: Laspistol, Chainsword

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 48pts]
. 6x Guardsman
. Guardsman W/ Special Weapon: Grenade Launcher
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. Sergeant: Laspistol

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 48pts]
. 6x Guardsman
. Guardsman W/ Special Weapon: Grenade Launcher
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. Sergeant: Laspistol

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 43pts]
. 8x Guardsman
. Guardsman W/ Special Weapon: Grenade Launcher
. Sergeant: Laspistol

Rough Riders [5 PL, 60pts]
. 5x Rough Rider: 5x Hunting Lance
. Rough Rider Sergeant: Chainsword, Hunting Lance, Laspistol

Rough Riders [5 PL, 60pts]
. 5x Rough Rider: 5x Hunting Lance
. Rough Rider Sergeant: Chainsword, Hunting Lance, Laspistol

Basilisks [7 PL, 110pts]
. Basilisk: Heavy Bolter, Storm Bolter

Heavy Weapons Squad [3 PL, 33pts]
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar

Manticore [8 PL, 141pts]: Heavy Bolter, Hunter-Killer Missile, Storm Bolter

++ Total: [95 PL, 1998pts] ++

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2019/04/10 19:09:21


Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
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The best way to counter Orks is with an assasin. They put up so much power and help with psychic powers it is funny

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 Jancoran wrote:
it was Vultures specifically, which I simply refuse to do because they ARE broken and I don't need the help ofForge World to win my games... I save a lot of money that way; but its a very valid answer and I accorded the answer the respect it deserved. Yes. Vultures would be EXCELLENT. No I'm not going to do it.


First I'm hearing vultures are broken.

They're nearly the same cost as a Leman Russ Punisher Commander. They have less firepower, are less accurate, have 1 toughness less. They move faster, have 2 more wounds, are -1 to hit, and cannot be charged in hand to hand. Seems like a fair trade off to me.

If you were against them for price, sure, that's fine. But honestly I'm extremely confused by your attitude. Looking at the units statistics, I really, really just cannot understand why you would think they're overpowered?

   
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I'm still baffled by having no Forgeworld at events or why you'd dislike it.

BUT to remain on topic I have two questions about Tempestus for people.
1. Is there a way to have Bullgryns in the list that's also fluffy?

2. Are there relatively cheap/easy conversions to make a Taurox Prime with wheels? I just cannot like the tracks.

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 Jancoran wrote:
 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Why not? I run two vulture and two Valkyries in my list and that are Golden and I love them.
Those two can solve alot of AI problem, freeing scions up for other such threats.

Understood and agreed on the Vultures.

I simply do not like Forge World. Never have. Really cool models though.


Take Valkyrie model.

Take Leman Russ Punisher Turrets.

??????

Profit?

"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"

"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"

"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"

"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"  
   
Made in us
Shas'o Commanding the Hunter Kadre




Olympia, WA

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
The best way to counter Orks is with an assasin. They put up so much power and help with psychic powers it is funny


Which Assassin. It was mentioned earlier but no one gave me a specific suggestion. I assume the Eversor but maybe not?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Horst wrote:
 Jancoran wrote:
it was Vultures specifically, which I simply refuse to do because they ARE broken and I don't need the help ofForge World to win my games... I save a lot of money that way; but its a very valid answer and I accorded the answer the respect it deserved. Yes. Vultures would be EXCELLENT. No I'm not going to do it.


First I'm hearing vultures are broken.

They're nearly the same cost as a Leman Russ Punisher Commander. They have less firepower, are less accurate, have 1 toughness less. They move faster, have 2 more wounds, are -1 to hit, and cannot be charged in hand to hand. Seems like a fair trade off to me.

If you were against them for price, sure, that's fine. But honestly I'm extremely confused by your attitude. Looking at the units statistics, I really, really just cannot understand why you would think they're overpowered?


Irrelevant to our discussion here, and it will only distract from an otherwise good discussion. I appreciate that tyou don't agree, and I'm not really asking you or anyone to agree. Plenty do and plenty don't. It doesn't help to get into it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/04/10 19:41:35


Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com

7th Ambassadorial Grand Tournament Registration: http://40kambassadors.com/register.php 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Washington State

 Horst wrote:
 Jancoran wrote:
it was Vultures specifically, which I simply refuse to do because they ARE broken and I don't need the help ofForge World to win my games... I save a lot of money that way; but its a very valid answer and I accorded the answer the respect it deserved. Yes. Vultures would be EXCELLENT. No I'm not going to do it.


First I'm hearing vultures are broken.

They're nearly the same cost as a Leman Russ Punisher Commander. They have less firepower, are less accurate, have 1 toughness less. They move faster, have 2 more wounds, are -1 to hit, and cannot be charged in hand to hand. Seems like a fair trade off to me.

If you were against them for price, sure, that's fine. But honestly I'm extremely confused by your attitude. Looking at the units statistics, I really, really just cannot understand why you would think they're overpowered?



Exactly this! Thank you. Vultures are fun, but not any more broken than a Leman Russ or Leman Russ Punisher. I run two with my Scion army, and they're super fun.
   
Made in us
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps






 Jancoran wrote:
 hotsauceman1 wrote:
The best way to counter Orks is with an assasin. They put up so much power and help with psychic powers it is funny


Which Assassin. It was mentioned earlier but no one gave me a specific suggestion. I assume the Eversor but maybe not?


Depends on the Ork player. If he's got mobs of Tankbustas or Lootas as a primary threat, go with a Callidus. He's only REALLY scary if he spends at least 3-4 stratagems turn 1 then, and if you can drain him of some CP with the Callidus, then kill a Weirdboy, she's great.

If he's running a green horde, then the Eversor. He can delete entire 20 orks per turn by himself, if you give him the 2 CP to fight twice.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Washington State

 Jancoran wrote:
 hotsauceman1 wrote:
The best way to counter Orks is with an assasin. They put up so much power and help with psychic powers it is funny


Which Assassin. It was mentioned earlier but no one gave me a specific suggestion. I assume the Eversor but maybe not?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Horst wrote:
 Jancoran wrote:
it was Vultures specifically, which I simply refuse to do because they ARE broken and I don't need the help ofForge World to win my games... I save a lot of money that way; but its a very valid answer and I accorded the answer the respect it deserved. Yes. Vultures would be EXCELLENT. No I'm not going to do it.


First I'm hearing vultures are broken.

They're nearly the same cost as a Leman Russ Punisher Commander. They have less firepower, are less accurate, have 1 toughness less. They move faster, have 2 more wounds, are -1 to hit, and cannot be charged in hand to hand. Seems like a fair trade off to me.

If you were against them for price, sure, that's fine. But honestly I'm extremely confused by your attitude. Looking at the units statistics, I really, really just cannot understand why you would think they're overpowered?


Irrelevant to our discussion here, and it will only distract from an otherwise good discussion. I appreciate that tyou don't agree, and I'm not really asking you or anyone to agree. Plenty do and plenty don't. It doesn't help to get into it.


I think people are actually interested in hearing your reasoning. You posted a pretty controversial opinion (FW is broken.) and then just disregard all discussion and fail to explain your reasoning.
   
Made in us
Shas'o Commanding the Hunter Kadre




Olympia, WA

pm713 wrote:
I'm still baffled by having no Forgeworld at events or why you'd dislike it.

BUT to remain on topic I have two questions about Tempestus for people.
1. Is there a way to have Bullgryns in the list that's also fluffy?

2. Are there relatively cheap/easy conversions to make a Taurox Prime with wheels? I just cannot like the tracks.


Bullgryns are Abhumans and are essentially big dumb meat sticks. They don't make sense in a pure Militarum Tempestus force if that's the goal because they are all about discipline. They are the Special Forces basically. The Bullgryns are "special" too, just not in the positive way. hehehe. It's never going to be fluffy I dont think.

But I don't really see an issue with Bullgryns being there from any other perspective. Its a great answer to protecting Artillery and while I don't know that walking them into the enemy is bad, i think the Tempestus schtick is to surround the enemy like the Japanese did to the British when they took Penang Fortress. Bullgryns rumbling forth are just as good a shield as any though and if you just want t oslow the enemy down so that your guns can position themselves, i have heard much worse idea. i use Rough Riders for that purpose. Cheap and disposable. Bullgryns are great though...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Horst wrote:
 Jancoran wrote:
 hotsauceman1 wrote:
The best way to counter Orks is with an assasin. They put up so much power and help with psychic powers it is funny


Which Assassin. It was mentioned earlier but no one gave me a specific suggestion. I assume the Eversor but maybe not?


Depends on the Ork player. If he's got mobs of Tankbustas or Lootas as a primary threat, go with a Callidus. He's only REALLY scary if he spends at least 3-4 stratagems turn 1 then, and if you can drain him of some CP with the Callidus, then kill a Weirdboy, she's great.

If he's running a green horde, then the Eversor. He can delete entire 20 orks per turn by himself, if you give him the 2 CP to fight twice.


Competitive ITC builds all have lootaz to some extent, 15-25 for sure. Callidus was my favorite assassin for a very long time. 4th and 5th edition using the Witch Hunter Codex/ Ho man. She was money. Vindicare sort of was better after that and now Im told theres a ton of rules for them that came out in March White Dwarf. i need to get a copy o that...

But the Eversor attacking twice sounds sweet.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 necrontyrOG wrote:

I think people are actually interested in hearing your reasoning. You posted a pretty controversial opinion (FW is broken.) and then just disregard all discussion and fail to explain your reasoning.


I'm old enough to know better than to get involved too deep on this. Humans have a habit of hyperbole as soon as we do. Start a new thread and encourage people who want to discuss it to do so. Maybe I'll join in after i test the venom level there. Lol.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/04/10 19:53:06


Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com

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Made in us
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot






Iowa

pm713 wrote:
I'm still baffled by having no Forgeworld at events or why you'd dislike it.

BUT to remain on topic I have two questions about Tempestus for people.
1. Is there a way to have Bullgryns in the list that's also fluffy?

2. Are there relatively cheap/easy conversions to make a Taurox Prime with wheels? I just cannot like the tracks.

Join most any Facebook Converter group and there a about a hundred different ways to replace Taurox tracks.

If the truth can destroy it, then it deserves to be destroyed. 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut







 Apple Peel wrote:
pm713 wrote:
I'm still baffled by having no Forgeworld at events or why you'd dislike it.

BUT to remain on topic I have two questions about Tempestus for people.
1. Is there a way to have Bullgryns in the list that's also fluffy?

2. Are there relatively cheap/easy conversions to make a Taurox Prime with wheels? I just cannot like the tracks.

Join most any Facebook Converter group and there a about a hundred different ways to replace Taurox tracks.

For an off-the-shelf solution, Victoria Miniatures do a conversion kit.

2021-4 Plog - Here we go again... - my fifth attempt at a Dakka PLOG

My Pile of Potential - updates ongoing...

Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.


 Kanluwen wrote:
This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.

Confirmation of why no-one should listen to Kanluwen when it comes to the IG - he doesn't want the IG, he want's Kan's New Model Army...

tneva82 wrote:
You aren't even trying ty pretend for honest arqument. Open bad faith trolling.
- No reason to keep this here, unless people want to use it for something... 
   
Made in us
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Olympia, WA

dollar store cars have wheels and axles you could steal. The wheel conversions are fairly straightforward. The tire look you want is the big question. big mudders or something else? 6 wheels? Hmm

Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com

7th Ambassadorial Grand Tournament Registration: http://40kambassadors.com/register.php 
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor





Denver, CO, USA

 Jancoran wrote:
Just a reminder of my original questions (with list provided for context) from the original post:
1. Is anyone out there playing Militarum Tempestus that I can Knoodle with on army ideas or just to BS about it.

I've run a small Battalion alongside my Sisters force (so I know you can grok that pairing) and I've also toyed with/half-planned a standalone Scions/Catachans/Bullgryns army list, maybe with a little mech, most likely with some colorful Inquisition characters, and mostly for fun.
2. How has the Deep Striking limitation affected your Militarum Tempestus force? Is it the absolute death knell of the army in competitive play or is it hyperbole as i suspected it to be?

It really didn't change it. I occasionally DSed them Turn 1, but that was usually more sacrificial in nature and/or to punish someone who failed to effectively screen their backfield. Much more often I would use Turn 1 shooting to clear a hole for them and drop them somewhere on Turn 2 where they could both hurt something and survive to Turn 3. That tactic didn't change much.
5. Orks: My army has a massive volume of low STR shooting but no Psyker defense and so i am also interested in how you might counter the Lootaspam and Jumping Bean attacks. Are my Rough Riders decent enough shielding? Should i make him go first? Or should i press the advantage of my volume of shooting? Deploy on the field or DS around his crazy pants jumps?

I can't speak to Castellans or Ynnari, but I do have a regular okr opponent. The D2 is a great asset against bikes and multiwound models, the AP has leverage on a variety of ork units, and DS allows you to put them in hard to reach places where they can sit back and enjoy crappy ork shooting. I've never faced the Jumping Bean, but I would think screening where you can and DSing in response to your opponent's moves would be the way... I can't imaging going first (and taking the first second turn) would be a bad thing, although maybe if you've got a 24" no-man's land, mostly volley guns on the board, and orks coming your way regardless, you might want second turn to get some range.

To speak to your list... would it make more sense to group like weapons together? Stacking the meltas and volley guns together seems to undermine the profile of the volley guns as you maneuver into melta rule range. I know they get some competition from plasma, but for the price I've gotten good mileage from volley guns. When I run that small Battalion, I usually do 3x5 Troops with 2 plasmas and a plasma pistol, and 1 Command with 4 volley guns. One Prime drops with the DSers to order all three units, and the other sits back with the volley gun Command and his Laurels to collect CPs and try to find a good fire lane to cover.

I don't know what I'll add when I go from Battalion to Brigade, but it may mean giving up the Militarum Tempestus doctrine to fill out slots with Catachans for screening and Bullgryns for bashing, a bunch of transports for delivery, and some artillery of some sort. But yeah, I love Scions, they're pretty flexible and fun, even if they're a bit of a glass cannon.




   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut







 MacPhail wrote:
To speak to your list... would it make more sense to group like weapons together? Stacking the meltas and volley guns together seems to undermine the profile of the volley guns as you maneuver into melta rule range. I know they get some competition from plasma, but for the price I've gotten good mileage from volley guns. When I run that small Battalion, I usually do 3x5 Troops with 2 plasmas and a plasma pistol, and 1 Command with 4 volley guns. One Prime drops with the DSers to order all three units, and the other sits back with the volley gun Command and his Laurels to collect CPs and try to find a good fire lane to cover.

Question - how is one Prime ordering three units? Even with his Rod of Primely Might, he still only has two Orders available to him...

2021-4 Plog - Here we go again... - my fifth attempt at a Dakka PLOG

My Pile of Potential - updates ongoing...

Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.


 Kanluwen wrote:
This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.

Confirmation of why no-one should listen to Kanluwen when it comes to the IG - he doesn't want the IG, he want's Kan's New Model Army...

tneva82 wrote:
You aren't even trying ty pretend for honest arqument. Open bad faith trolling.
- No reason to keep this here, unless people want to use it for something... 
   
Made in us
Member of the Ethereal Council






With a strat, you can issue an additional order

5000pts 6000pts 3000pts
 
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor





Denver, CO, USA

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
With a strat, you can issue an additional order


Yep, Inspired Tactics, 1CP, Officer issues one additional order. If I spring for extra relics, I'll give the DSing Prime the Rod and the Laurels and use the strat to have him stack potentially 2-3 orders x 3 units before they start seeming pointless. Take Aim plus either Bring It Down or Elimination Protocols depending on the target are the obvious combos.

   
 
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