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 Shadenuat wrote:
Yeah, I misred PoW for Path of Command, my bad. So I guess Autarch will grant re-rolls to <Asuryani Reborn>.

Yep! Should do and can get some nice CP farming too.

Now if only actual Ynnari characters were worth taking to make herohammer out of them and models like an Autarch.

You can make some decent, cheap, beatstick HQs. An Archon with Huskblade, Corag Hais locket and the Warden of Souls trait is not bad at all, 6 S5 AP-2 Dd3 attacks, hitting on 2's rerolling and 2 versions of melee doom available for 76 points and getting an extra attack for each succesful unit kill. A Wraithseer with Lord of Rebirth and Mirrorgaze is very tanky at 100. There's a few Autarch builds that look nice too.

For going a bit Hero Hammery you could take both of the above and a regular Archon with Djinn Blade (but no WL trait). At that point you have a pretty fierce 250 points of stabby.

So besides Triple Wraithlords with a Wraithblade (or even Wraithguard) deathstar and Razorwing spam, are there any other builds starting to spring to mind?

Aside from the aforementioned Wraith list, I don't see too much merit for Craftwordl Eldar to go Ynnari. DE and Harlies seem like they have decent options

-

 Galef wrote:
So besides Triple Wraithlords with a Wraithblade (or even Wraithguard) deathstar and Razorwing spam, are there any other builds starting to spring to mind?

Aside from the aforementioned Wraith list, I don't see too much merit for Craftwordl Eldar to go Ynnari. DE and Harlies seem like they have decent options

-

*Plugs Wraithseer again*


I also like the Jetseer Council, though it might be better as craftworlds, depending on the build. Running alongside a unit (or 2) of DE reavers will give the Reavers a 5++, fixing their resilience issues and they synergise well as they can gang up on hard targets with Doom Lite or take a unit of 30 boys each without ending up outside of the bubble. They are also the only unit I can see making good use of Storm of Whispers, as 3d6 6s are mortals is crap on one unit, but against every unit in the opponents army, suddenly it's doing a lot of damage.

Reavers make out great from this, the 5++ and Doom Lite powers really shine for them, as does Advance and Charge and +1 Attack (if you are mental and go triple Ynarri). Even without the extra attack a unit of 10-12 can down Eldar fliers of all varieties in one turn, blow up entire squads of Boyz and murder blend IG infantry (even having a couple of spare bikes to tri point a unit you didn't assault). DE Reavers just can't do that, they aren't killy or resilient enough to be worth it. Also being able to be buffed by an Archon helps with redundancy.

With regards to the Yncarne in a bike spam list it's actually.... kinda ok? The bikes murderblend something then Yncarne can teleport into the middle of a blob of bikes, ready to cause mayhem int he opponetns end of the board and maintaining character protection behind a tough (or if you tri pointed something, near invulnearable) unit.

If i am understanding this stuff correctly, then you could potentially give a wraithknight the 5++/6+++ buff right? Would that make it so the shooty version could actually see some play in a semi competitive way?

One issue I'm seeing with a lot of the suggestions for units that work well with the new Ynnari is that they tend to rely on synergy with Shield of Ynnead.

Except that's one psychic power, and even with good unit placement it's not going to be covering your entire army. Feels like a slight issue to me.

Yncarne is a big model, easier to put stuff around her, and teleports. She could probably cover many, many of your wytches even if they deep strike.

If i am understanding this stuff correctly, then you could potentially give a wraithknight the 5++/6+++ buff right? Would that make it so the shooty version could actually see some play in a semi competitive way?

You can give WK even 4++ using Vigilus detachment, but just like power, if it's not your first turn, you will eat everything.

Thing is, we assume that we want invul on WK because Wraithcannons are somehow worth it, but they are not.

Weird everyone is talking about reavers.. I meantioned reavers being useful on general discussion and some of you aeldari players laughed at me and said “reavers are useless.”

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
Weird everyone is talking about reavers.. I meantioned reavers being useful on general discussion and some of you aeldari players laughed at me and said “reavers are useless.”

Wouldn't be surprised if the same people still hold that opinion.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Burnage wrote:
One issue I'm seeing with a lot of the suggestions for units that work well with the new Ynnari is that they tend to rely on synergy with Shield of Ynnead.

Except that's one psychic power, and even with good unit placement it's not going to be covering your entire army. Feels like a slight issue to me.

With a Warlock Council it will cover your whole army. With the Wraith detachmetn we;ve been talking about it will cover all 5-6 of your Ynarri models. Aslo it's unit within 6, not model, so you only need the hair of one base within.

Drager wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
Weird everyone is talking about reavers.. I meantioned reavers being useful on general discussion and some of you aeldari players laughed at me and said “reavers are useless.”

Wouldn't be surprised if the same people still hold that opinion.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Burnage wrote:
One issue I'm seeing with a lot of the suggestions for units that work well with the new Ynnari is that they tend to rely on synergy with Shield of Ynnead.

Except that's one psychic power, and even with good unit placement it's not going to be covering your entire army. Feels like a slight issue to me.

With a Warlock Council it will cover your whole army. With the Wraith detachmetn we;ve been talking about it will cover all 5-6 of your Ynarri models. Aslo it's unit within 6, not model, so you only need the hair of one base within.

Those are going to be the people that are to afraid to try something new to see if it has any merit in the new rules. They’d rather take what they know will win that try something new

Drager wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
Weird everyone is talking about reavers.. I meantioned reavers being useful on general discussion and some of you aeldari players laughed at me and said “reavers are useless.”

Wouldn't be surprised if the same people still hold that opinion.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Burnage wrote:
One issue I'm seeing with a lot of the suggestions for units that work well with the new Ynnari is that they tend to rely on synergy with Shield of Ynnead.

Except that's one psychic power, and even with good unit placement it's not going to be covering your entire army. Feels like a slight issue to me.

With a Warlock Council it will cover your whole army. With the Wraith detachmetn we;ve been talking about it will cover all 5-6 of your Ynarri models. Aslo it's unit within 6, not model, so you only need the hair of one base within.

The only issue is warlock council can be targeted and killed first than your aura will shrink. There is reason players don`t run council, except when they try Vigilus detachment hit and run tactic.

That relic pistol is pretty damn good, isn't it?

Thoughts on shining spears as new Ynnari vs. Saim-Hann?

They never gained a lot from Saim-Hann besides advance and still charge strat which Ynnari still have albeit at a an extra CP. Obviously they've gone down in power from their previous incarnation, but is it worth dragging a Ynnari character in as opposed to just running them Craftworlds?

Also, I'm playing around with the idea of a United In Death list, a large squad of shining spears seems like it would benefit immensely from it.

Except we can deep stike the knight to help protect it, but i do understand what you mean by the cannons not worth the entry fee..... sad too.

Do you use Back From The Brink only when the character dies, or anytime on any dead i.e. destroyed character?

karandrasss wrote:
Do you use Back From The Brink only when the character dies, or anytime on any dead i.e. destroyed character?

When it's destroyed.

If it's destroyed turn 1, and remains destroyed, it's still destroyed in turn 2.

Azuza001 wrote:
Except we can deep stike the knight to help protect it, but i do understand what you mean by the cannons not worth the entry fee..... sad too.

Can we? Ynnari can DS infantry, bikers and beasts.

darkarchonlord wrote:
They never gained a lot from Saim-Hann besides advance and still charge strat

Re-roll all charges, charge after advancing, re-roll hits of 1 in close combat. Biel Tan - re-roll hits of 1 and +2 to charge, re-roll catapult shots of 1 and +1 Ld. And then you get your Nova-lance.

No, Craftworld spears were never bad at all, it's just that Ynnari could have everything at once and even multiple (like naming 1 squad Saim Hann, another - Biel Tan). And then there is Quicken, Protect, Conceal, etc.

If you start them on the table, Alaitoc imo is better, if you use Spears as fire and forget unit, then Biel Tan/Saim Hann is not bad and won't take away from you as much as Ynnari Spears imo.
Not that it's a bad unit to run in Ynnari anyway, but I really feel Craftworlds just give you more options to run them (the most important one being Quicken).

darkarchonlord wrote:
Thoughts on shining spears as new Ynnari vs. Saim-Hann?

They never gained a lot from Saim-Hann besides advance and still charge strat which Ynnari still have albeit at a an extra CP. Obviously they've gone down in power from their previous incarnation, but is it worth dragging a Ynnari character in as opposed to just running them Craftworlds?

Well if your idea is to have 300 + point suicidal unit that can do a lot of damage and probably die in the next turn.
CWE have better defensive fortune, protect, conceal, better offensive spells guide, empower,doom, jinx, and Saim-Hann stratagem is cheaper and give you reroll of 1.
It`s better to buff one big CWE SS unit than one Ynnari SS unit.
Skyweavers can do that by default and you don`t really want them in close combat most of the time.
Maybe only DE bikes get the better end of it, but not by much.

The stratagems are just so bad or copy pasta from other codexe.

Unique strategems:
Taste for death - below trash tier, totally unusable;
The great enemy - trash tier in 98% of the time;
Exalted by Ynnead - the warlord traits look amassing, until you noticed Ynnari characters have to pick the worst choice for the hero and you can`t use named characters(regardless of lore and logic) and we know most of the aeldar characters are terrible in close comb at, low attacks, low strangt, low toughness. This make the stratagam only good.
Soul of the strongest- bad, to situational it will be lucky to manage to kill enemy warlord and still have CP.
Inevitable fate - good, but you can do the some with psychic power and doom is still better in most cases.
Whispering spirits - bad, but most of the horde armies can easily disable LD bombs and you can`t build army arround this mechanic.
Acolyte of ynnead - trash tier, first you have to kill enemy unit and than you get +3 on spells you need from 5-7.
Ynneads net - decent, only useful for DE.
Reborn together - bad, you have to many ways to negate LD that will not coast expensive CP.
United in death - should be amassing if the Ynnari characters were priced properly, for now is only good.
Shrine of the whispering god - bad, Incubi bomb could probably do fun things, but 2 CP is to much.

The rest are generic and other armies can them or do them even better.

Why is Fire and Fade 2CP? It's 1CP in the books.

Just because.

karandrasss wrote:
Why is Fire and Fade 2CP? It's 1CP in the books.

because it`s now Ynnari stratagem and you can use it on other units, like skyweavers, ravagers. The stratagem is the some, but can have different value with other units.

You could always use it on Skyweavers and Ravagers, for 1 CP. Was this a typo?

karandrasss wrote:
You could always use it on Skyweavers and Ravagers, for 1 CP. Was this a typo?

somehow i through only CWE had it
I guess it`s showing GW love for Ynnari.

Marin wrote:
Well if your idea is to have 300 + point suicidal unit that can do a lot of damage and probably die in the next turn.

I'm toying with a United In Death list and +1 atks on a large spear squad is huge. The idea would be for them to be backed up with a banshee mask autarch, some troops in starweavers, and... something deldar (still working on that...) so they're not alone. They get reroll from the Autarch so nothing lost there. A spears squad is a somewhat economical and very synergetic way to cover the Craftworld side of things, for CP I'm looking at a harlequins batallion.

Yea, they do lose re-roll charge which could definitely hurt... Wraithblades in a wave serpent a good choice too, but really expensive. Also spears are really good for triggering SFD, it's really hard for them to not kill SOMETHING in the shooting phase. 6+ FNP from the Yncarne does help with their suitability too.

I do like the idea of an autarch skyrunner with warden of souls too, +1 atk is pretty solid compared to the craftworld traits. The lost shroud relic makes it pretty durable too. We absolutely need a points drop for the Triumverate though, it's a damn shame it wasn't fixed in WD.

What other models from Craftworlds would actually make an impact with UID?

I`m thinking about wraithguard(flamer) with bonesinger and word of the phoenix. Yncarne can give them 6++ and fearless aura T6 unit. The problem is it`s expensive, slow and to little CP and i`ll need some very good range to be able to hit heavy hitters on the edge of the table.

I think the inevitable truth is that we are trying to dig for the best answers when really the best answers are to stick with the original codex. Running a small detachment in a mixed Aeldari force might have merit, but it's not great.

I think there's some sticker shock right now that the tactics we were using aren't viable, but with a little bit of time I think you'll see people still getting quite a bit of mileage out of the Ynnari.

I think the ideas on reavers are interesting - but I can't say I am especially convinced. Depending on how you bling them out (blasters, grav talons) its not that expensive. But its also... not all that much of a critical mass. I guess the shooting and incredible movement shouldn't be totally discounted - but this isn't 20 kraken genestealers charging into your lines.

Lets say you throw your 230~ point unit in a flyer. I reckon you have around a 50/50 chance to tear it down (more if you shoot it too+mortal wounds). But that flyer probably wasn't all that expensive. I mean a razorwing jetfighter is 135~ - a Crimson Hunter is about 160?

Some simplistic theorycraft:
On the reavers - take strife for 4 A versus ynnari 3 A with WS2+.

Versus Marines, Ynnari/Strife:
3*5/6*1/2*1/2=0.625.
4*2/3*1/2*1/2=0.666.
Okay, break out the 2 CP reroll wounds for Ynnari and its a material increase:
3*5/6*3/4*1/2=0.9375.

But then if its turn 2 (and I realise the point may be a first turn charge - but still, hopefully the unit isn't wiped out immediately) I could break out Architects of Pain on the strife squad to to hit on 2s.
In which case:
4*5/6*1/2*1/2=0.8333. Still worse - but not by miles.

Versus say a T6, 5++ target.
3*5/6*1/3*2/3=0.55
4*2/3*1/3*2/3=0.59

In other words you are really relying on unbind souls/inevitable fate to get the uplift.

There is also perhaps a hint of history here. In a pre-FAQ world you could have doomed the target of whatever you are charging the reavers into (although obviously you can't doom everything). Reavers were not a thing then, so not really sure why they would be now even if the psychic power+ stratagem is a bit more flexible.

You can say "the potential to advance and charge changes everything" - but on a M18 flyer I'm not convinced. I'm in the "Red Grief isn't very good" school of thought (even if the relic is nice). I feel in a lot of deployments you are going to have a reasonable shot of a first turn charge - especially with the new FAQ restoring flying charges. Also how many CP are you spending just for this turn 1 charge? Potentially 4 CP on net and inevitable fate feels like a lot when you probably don't have many. (Double batallion about as much as you can hope for I think?)

Theoretically psychic+stratagem allows for two buffed up units, but you can't take the +1 attack on more squads unless you are bringing a bunch of other covens units - and without the +1 attack your damage output is quite a bit lower.

This is a bit negative - I agree buffed up reavers are probably a better shout than buffed up Banshees/Scorpions, let alone big blobs of Storm Guardians - but eh. Its still kind of mediocre.