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Any thoughts on using Dark Eldar Ynnari?

bullyboy wrote:I think the inevitable truth is that we are trying to dig for the best answers when really the best answers are to stick with the original codex. Running a small detachment in a mixed Aeldari force might have merit, but it's not great.

I have a feeling this is going to be true until some specific combinations arise. Which leads me to the second point ...

vipoid wrote:Any thoughts on using Dark Eldar Ynnari?

I think there really could be something there for Wych cults in Ynnari. To be fair, the extent of my Drukhari play has been limited to Covens and Kabals, but I can see some potential there (even if it's merely using Yvraine to fill out a Kabal battalion).

Anyone got the math of Gaze vs. Smite?

karandrasss wrote:
Anyone got the math of Gaze vs. Smite?

Smite averages 1.79 mortal wounds, Gaze averages 1.50.

Autarchs can be very good as Ynnari, if you do it right, it does require index options

Autarch Skyrunner, Reaper Launcher, Banshee Masker, Laser Lance, Pistol.
Relic- Corag Hai's Locket "Each time an enemy is destroyed with an attack made by the bearer, add 1 tot he bearer's attacks and movement characteristics"
WL trait - Walker of Many Paths (Re-roll 1 hit and 1 wound each turn, 5+ to regain a CP) WL trait cost 1 CP


Turn 1, shoot a Reaper Launcher to get the final blow, +1 A/M, (17" movement with 5 attacks base)

Turn 2 Shoot Reaper Launcher again, +1 A/M (18" movement with 6 base attacks base)

Charge turn 2, No overwatch, Str 6 ont he charge, 6 attacks hitting on 2+, -4ap 2D, get a kill (19" movement with 7 attacks base)

Turn 3, Shoot and another kill, now 20" with 8 base attacks, Charge.

Repeat

What's tougher, a Hemlock with -2 to hit or 5++?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Burnage wrote:

karandrasss wrote:
Anyone got the math of Gaze vs. Smite?

Smite averages 1.79 mortal wounds, Gaze averages 1.50.

That's probably not gonna snipe any characters, huh? Once they realize Gaze is a threat, the caster goes down.

 vipoid wrote:
Any thoughts on using Dark Eldar Ynnari?

They are probably the most viable.

I don't think Wraithguard/Blades do very well out of Ynnari. 5-6 In a Wave serpent might be ok, but a footslogging unit really needs the Craftworlds defensive buffs.

Spears also really like Craftworld defensive buffs, but at least they gain the advance and charge strat.

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
I don't think Wraithguard/Blades do very well out of Ynnari. 5-6 In a Wave serpent might be ok, but a footslogging unit really needs the Craftworlds defensive buffs.

Spears also really like Craftworld defensive buffs, but at least they gain the advance and charge strat.

Wraithguard like the Ynarri defensive buffs too. 3+/5++/6+++ is pretty nice and it still lets you use the Craftworld defensive buffs somewhere else.

Incidentally, I've done a little bit of calculation on return on investment in a single turn for a few options. I've pitted Ynarri Shining Spears and Ynarri reavers against each other, Strife Reavers and Black Heart ravagers. Both ynarri units come out looking pretty decent. When Is ay all units have reroll 1s in the assumption, obviously the Strife reavers don't for shooting as that's not possible for them.

The whole numbers are wounds suffered after all defences. The ROI is a percentage of the attacking units points returned in a single turn. This includes shooting and charging (except the Ravager, no charge there).

Probably a niche application, but Vypers can potentially be rezzed with WoP.

Is that shoot + charge?

karandrasss wrote:
Is that shoot + charge?

Yes, that's shooting and charging. Edited it in.

karandrasss wrote:
Is that shoot + charge?

Well , so they have more shoots except when the unit need to advance.
Full squad of 12 is less expensive than 6SS+Exarch, reavers are only 19 pts per model, so they have more shoots except when the unit need to advance and more attacks.
With power from pain and combat drugs they become better during the game. Ynnari can give them better defense that they already had, so they look like a winner from the change.

Marin wrote:

karandrasss wrote:
Is that shoot + charge?

Well , so they have more shoots except when the unit need to advance.
Full squad of 12 is less expensive than 6SS+Exarch, reavers are only 19 pts per model, so they have more shoots except when the unit need to advance and more attacks.
With power from pain and combat drugs they become better during the game. Ynnari can give them better defense that they already had, so they look like a winner from the change.

The Shning Spears have better shooting against all targets, if you limit this to just combat it pulls the reavers ahead.

I`m wondering if you bring back Archon with the stratagem, will he regain your shadow field ?

What in the rules implies he would? Shadowfield states that it ceases to function for the rest of the battle.

Regarding Reavers v Spears and Ynnari. I think given the posts above, I'd say Reavers are a better pick for Ynnari. They get more benefits than Spears do.
However, I'd also take Alaitoc Spears over Ynnari Reavers any day, so for me at least, it doesn't matter

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 Galef wrote:
Regarding Reavers v Spears and Ynnari. I think given the posts above, I'd say Reavers are a better pick for Ynnari. They get more benefits than Spears do.
However, I'd also take Alaitoc Spears over Ynnari Reavers any day, so for me at least, it doesn't matter

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Why not take both? I mean they do different things and Ynarri Reavers give a stunning ROI on infantry targets, spears (of any stripe) are better against vehicles and hard targets. Also it means the reavers can use all the Ynarri buffs and the Spears can use the CWE ones.

Drager wrote:

 Galef wrote:
Regarding Reavers v Spears and Ynnari. I think given the posts above, I'd say Reavers are a better pick for Ynnari. They get more benefits than Spears do.
However, I'd also take Alaitoc Spears over Ynnari Reavers any day, so for me at least, it doesn't matter

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Why not take both? I mean they do different things and Ynarri Reavers give a stunning ROI on infantry targets, spears (of any stripe) are better against vehicles and hard targets. Also it means the reavers can use all the Ynarri buffs and the Spears can use the CWE ones.

If you are doing an all jetbike list, sure. All I was saying is that given the choice between the two, I'd pick CWE Spears every time.
Protect, Fortune, Doom, Alaitoc, etc are all things that amplify the baseline of Spears (which is already better than the baseline of Reavers) way more than Ynnari can boost Reavers.

Doom + Spear's Shuricats will mulch just about any infantry, then they can charge "harder targets". Reavers can't do both in the same turn.

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 Galef wrote:

Drager wrote:

 Galef wrote:
Regarding Reavers v Spears and Ynnari. I think given the posts above, I'd say Reavers are a better pick for Ynnari. They get more benefits than Spears do.
However, I'd also take Alaitoc Spears over Ynnari Reavers any day, so for me at least, it doesn't matter

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Why not take both? I mean they do different things and Ynarri Reavers give a stunning ROI on infantry targets, spears (of any stripe) are better against vehicles and hard targets. Also it means the reavers can use all the Ynarri buffs and the Spears can use the CWE ones.

If you are doing an all jetbike list, sure. All I was saying is that given the choice between the two, I'd pick CWE Spears every time.
Protect, Fortune, Doom, Alaitoc, etc are all things that amplify the baseline of Spears (which is already better than the baseline of Reavers) way more than Ynnari can boost Reavers.

Doom + Spear's Shuricats will mulch just about any infantry, then they can charge "harder targets". Reavers can't do both in the same turn.

I'm going to do the comparison for them and add them in. I agree with you, but I'd like to see the difference between them.

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
Ynnari Vanguard Detatchment:

Visarch (In WWP)

10x Striking Scorpions, Exarch w/Claw
10x Striking Scorpions, Exarch w/Claw
10x Striking Scorpions, Exarch w/Claw

447pts

I kinda like it.

Edit: Yvraine with fake doom and 5++ aura might be better than the Visarch.

Wow. That seems... really expensive for what you're getting. It pains me to think of what 450 points buys me with other factions or even with pre-nerf Ynnari. 30x buffed scorpions just doesn't seem to compare to something like 60 plaguebearers. Or 40 Kraken genestealers. Or you know, a knight.

40 kraken genestealers is 480 pts and the scorps will probably win that fight as they will usually get to swing first (charging from deep strike).

One does not just easily charge on a "9 three units.

I've added in Craftworld spears to the above and it makes me sorely tempted to take a unit of them and a unit of reavers. At 480 (550 ish if you add a couple more spears) points for the pair you are comfortable in taking out a Knight + a good chunk of guardsmen, or a huge swathe of Orks. Both units are versatile when buffed and they don't compete with each other for buffs.

 Shadenuat wrote:
One does not just easily charge on a "9 three units.

You can if you're Saim-Hann.....oh, wait

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37x Kraken genestealers will deploy 40-50" away behind a screen. The first unit will be in your face T1 and the second unit will be in your face T2 for maybe 1CP per squad. Scorpions can't come down until T2 and even then odds are less than half will make their charges (can they buff their charges out of deep strike?). On T2 half the genestealers would also likely be catalyzed for a 5+++.

Maybe the scorpions get lucky, make their charges, and kill a couple of genestealers but at that point your entire front line is already gone. And even if they all miraculously made their charges, killing 37x 5++/5+++ models is no easy feat. Catalyzed genestealers have plaguebearer-level durability.

Doesn't look good for the scorpions.

Alaitoc spears + support units makes twice its points back against a Knight? How does that work? Spears + support cost more than a Knight, no?

karandrasss wrote:
How are Alaitoc spears supposed to do more damage against a Knight?

Doom and Guide work in shooting.

Drager wrote:

karandrasss wrote:
How are Alaitoc spears supposed to do more damage against a Knight?

Doom and Guide work in shooting.

Yeah, my bad. Edited my post.

karandrasss wrote:
How are Alaitoc spears supposed to do more damage against a Knight?

Because they benefit from Doom and have shooting weapons that are AP-3 against them (because you only get successful wound on 6, which triggers AP-3). They're Lances also have AP-4 and Damage 2 in BOTH shooting and melee.
CWE benefit from Jinx, so even with Rotate Ion Shields, the Crusader will only have a 5++ against that shooting. And will have NO save in melee against their Damage 2 weapons

EDIT: regarding your edit, yes, I agree the ROI probably isn't that high once you factor in the Psykers providing the buffs. Although a Farseer and at least 1 Runes of Battle Psyker are pretty standard for CWE lists and are doing more than just buffing the Spears, so I wouldn't put their whole points cost into that equation

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