Index Ynnari Tactica: The Reborn and Rebirth of Balance (Edition 8.2 May 2019)

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**Drager**

I think double battalion is too important to lose, but I also love reavers!

**Elfric**

Drager and Amish, thank's for clarifying. I guess interrupting combat is virtually useless for the enemy now.

**karandrasss**

Drager wrote:
karandrasss wrote:
Hmm my Hemlock Farseer Skyrunner sandwich isn't so bad after all. Thank you!

Extra weapons, how about against Crimson Hunter Exarchs? Riptide HBCs with markerlights?
Here you go. In the case of the Crimson Hunter, I'd note that getting within 12" is not hard for it.

Is that rounds of shooting? No way 3 HBC shots kills a flyer, right?

**Amishprn86**

A HBC is 12 shots, wounding on 4+ for 2 damage with -1ap, 3 of them means its 36 shots, but thats 2-3 Riptides shooting while their target has been lit up. Thats +1BS, re-roll hits of 1 and can move/shoot heavy weapons (it is a Heavy weapon).

They are spending multi units shooting it. When you look at it that way yeah it should kill it,

**Drager**

karandrasss wrote:
Drager wrote:
karandrasss wrote:
Hmm my Hemlock Farseer Skyrunner sandwich isn't so bad after all. Thank you!

Extra weapons, how about against Crimson Hunter Exarchs? Riptide HBCs with markerlights?
Here you go. In the case of the Crimson Hunter, I'd note that getting within 12" is not hard for it.

Is that rounds of shooting? No way 3 HBC shots kills a flyer, right?

I need to make clearer tables, but für the units it's number of whole units. For the weapons it's shots.

**vipoid**

Amishprn86 wrote:
vipoid wrote:
@Amishprn86 Do you have any example Ynnari Wych Cult lists?

Also, what do you guys think of Ynnari Striking Scorpions? Assuming a unit has died, they'll be hitting on 2s and the Exarch (with a Scorpion Claw) will be generating extra attacks on a 5+.

I was out and dint see till now.

1st, Striking Scorpions will be better IMO, they are pretty cheap for what they are, a nice scalpel unit of them could be worth it, being 55pts for 5 its not bad at all.

As for Wyches, I feel you ether do MSU spam or 2 large units

A MSU unit are would be mostly to accompany the CWE or Quins, heck even Coven harder hitting units, you are using Ynnari more of a way to fight 1st and tie up, fighting first lets you pile in/consolidate and use movement shenanigans, something that can be very strong.

If i would to use Coven more i would do this

Yvarine
Succubus
Succubus
Wych x5
Wych x5
Wych x5
Wych x5
Wych x5

Coven POF bat
Urien
Haemon
Wracks x10
Wracks
Wracks
Grots x9
Talos x3

BH Spearhead 3 Ravagers

This gives you some dedicated shooting via Talos, Ravagers, there are left over points you can easily add 2 more talos for more. But the idea is to have cheap, small, fast wyches to support the Coven, i have done this before new Ynnari and it works great, might have to modify for ITC tho

As for Large units of Wyches? I would do more of a CWE battalion with a Wych Ynnari list, you could also do a CWE Ynnari as well, with Banshees, Autarch, Yvarine, Wraiths with Dcannon and 2 Wave serpents and troops to fill/

Yncarne
Archon (melee)
20 Wyches, 1 net, 2 HG's, 1 PW (DSing) (+1 strength)
20 Wyches, 1 net, 2 HG's 1 Agonsier (DSing) (+1 attack)
5 Wyches, + movement

The Yncarne giving them ignore Moral, 40 bodies to character block, and a small 5 man back up/CP, DSing them you are hoping to get 1 into combat, with full re-rolls charges aor the option to re-roll 1 dice via CP, it shouldnt be to hard to get 1 in, but you will fail time to time, the Archon is there for re-roll hits of 1, its still 40 Pistol shots and re-roll hits in melee, so he is doubling up on the aura over the succubus, worst chase scenario you dont make either charge, but you still are able to manage if you had Wraiths, Guardians, Banshees, etc.. all coming in at the same time, you are priority overloading them.

Sorry for the delay in my replying. I sort of get the second idea but I'm not sure I understand the point of the MSU, footslogging Wyches in the first list. It seems like they're unlikely to accomplish much, Ynnari or not.

Could you perhaps explain that in a bit more detail?

**Amishprn86**

vipoid wrote:
Amishprn86 wrote:
vipoid wrote:
@Amishprn86 Do you have any example Ynnari Wych Cult lists?

Also, what do you guys think of Ynnari Striking Scorpions? Assuming a unit has died, they'll be hitting on 2s and the Exarch (with a Scorpion Claw) will be generating extra attacks on a 5+.

I was out and dint see till now.

1st, Striking Scorpions will be better IMO, they are pretty cheap for what they are, a nice scalpel unit of them could be worth it, being 55pts for 5 its not bad at all.

As for Wyches, I feel you ether do MSU spam or 2 large units

A MSU unit are would be mostly to accompany the CWE or Quins, heck even Coven harder hitting units, you are using Ynnari more of a way to fight 1st and tie up, fighting first lets you pile in/consolidate and use movement shenanigans, something that can be very strong.

If i would to use Coven more i would do this

Yvarine
Succubus
Succubus
Wych x5
Wych x5
Wych x5
Wych x5
Wych x5

Coven POF bat
Urien
Haemon
Wracks x10
Wracks
Wracks
Grots x9
Talos x3

BH Spearhead 3 Ravagers

This gives you some dedicated shooting via Talos, Ravagers, there are left over points you can easily add 2 more talos for more. But the idea is to have cheap, small, fast wyches to support the Coven, i have done this before new Ynnari and it works great, might have to modify for ITC tho

As for Large units of Wyches? I would do more of a CWE battalion with a Wych Ynnari list, you could also do a CWE Ynnari as well, with Banshees, Autarch, Yvarine, Wraiths with Dcannon and 2 Wave serpents and troops to fill/

Yncarne
Archon (melee)
20 Wyches, 1 net, 2 HG's, 1 PW (DSing) (+1 strength)
20 Wyches, 1 net, 2 HG's 1 Agonsier (DSing) (+1 attack)
5 Wyches, + movement

The Yncarne giving them ignore Moral, 40 bodies to character block, and a small 5 man back up/CP, DSing them you are hoping to get 1 into combat, with full re-rolls charges aor the option to re-roll 1 dice via CP, it shouldnt be to hard to get 1 in, but you will fail time to time, the Archon is there for re-roll hits of 1, its still 40 Pistol shots and re-roll hits in melee, so he is doubling up on the aura over the succubus, worst chase scenario you dont make either charge, but you still are able to manage if you had Wraiths, Guardians, Banshees, etc.. all coming in at the same time, you are priority overloading them.

Sorry for the delay in my replying. I sort of get the second idea but I'm not sure I understand the point of the MSU, footslogging Wyches in the first list. It seems like they're unlikely to accomplish much, Ynnari or not.

Could you perhaps explain that in a bit more detail?

They are to support bigger units, they need to be able to move just as fast (actually faster) and charge through walls, wyches are perfect for that, you dont really want 2 large units, you want lots of small units. This gives you lots of freedom in movements and charging. Also makes it harder to target them as a priority (unless you are ITC, then i wouldnt play this list) when you take units like Grots or Scorpions to do the damage and keep them alive, wyches can do that, a 5man Wych unit with just a Shardnet is 15pts more, so if you take the minimum of 3 units over kabals and as a battalion, you are only spending 235pts for a battalion (tho i like a 4th unit for backup) to support other units, take objectives, stop overwatch, gain CP, and stop units from falling back. Also if they hoot them they are forcing to waste shots on something to ignore LoS, thats less shots of important units.

**Titanicus**

What's the viability of the yncarne looking like? It seems rather expensive to me but I kind of want to use it being one of the coolest models we have. Any ways to make it viable?

**Amishprn86**

B.c you no longer can Soulburst to "fight" he is a lot worst than before, no where near the value of 337 now, i would argue 280pts. But you can still play it, idk if its worth it much anymore.

**Karhedron**

Titanicus wrote:
What's the viability of the yncarne looking like? It seems rather expensive to me but I kind of want to use it being one of the coolest models we have. Any ways to make it viable?

You need to find ways to leverage its ability to teleport around the battlefield to threaten numerous units or pull it out of trouble. It can appear in the place of any slain unit meaning you can get around the no-charging restriction if you teleport in your enemy's turn. Then it is in position and free to charge in your turn.

It is slightly better than a Daemon Prince in terms of damage output with similar durability and psychic powers but it costs a lot more and lacks the movement of a winged DP. To get value out of it, you need to get a handle on the teleport ability. It really is a precision instrument. Used well it can be like fighting a razor-edged ghost for your opponent. Used poorly and it is a 300+ point paperweight.

**Niiai**

One advantage the avatar has is that it can ride in transports. So that might be a good place to stick it. Dark Eldar or Harlequin for speed. Eldar waveserpent for resiliency.

Also, if your opponent wipes out a unit of your late in either shooting or momre likly melee you can just zip it over there and it can charge the next turn. It seems good,

You can potensially save they by teleporting out of a hard spot when you kill another squad.

**karandrasss**

Yncarne can't ride in transports.

Is it affected by Tactical Reserves if you don't deploy it turn 1?

Also, how many Wraithblades does it take to kill a Castellan?

**Marin**

karandrasss wrote:
Yncarne can't ride in transports.

Is it affected by Tactical Reserves if you don't deploy it turn 1?

Also, how many Wraithblades does it take to kill a Castellan?

Tactical reserve rule should be applied.

The problem is how they are going to reach the Castellan and don`t all FW Knights have melee invuln. save.

**tneva82**

Marin wrote:
karandrasss wrote:
Yncarne can't ride in transports.

Is it affected by Tactical Reserves if you don't deploy it turn 1?

Also, how many Wraithblades does it take to kill a Castellan?

Tactical reserve rule should be applied.

The problem is how they are going to reach the Castellan and don`t all FW Knights have melee invuln. save.

Nope. Some have it, some like poryphonion, acheron and castigator don't.

**Drager**

Marin wrote:
karandrasss wrote:
Yncarne can't ride in transports.

Is it affected by Tactical Reserves if you don't deploy it turn 1?

Also, how many Wraithblades does it take to kill a Castellan?

Tactical reserve rule should be applied.

The problem is how they are going to reach the Castellan and don`t all FW Knights have melee invuln. save.

If you are playing with Ynarri Reavers or Shining Spears (and you probably should be) when they fly in and nuke an IS (then tri point another, hopefully) you can teleport the Yncarne across. If they bring the Knight against the bikes the Yncarne can HI in if you have positioned correctly, if they don't, you should be close enough to charge. Further, if you are fighting in close like this and they kill one of your units (for example, with the Knight itself) in CC or at the end of the shooting phase you can bring the Yncanrne across. Small, fast, sacrificial units are great for forcing this T1. Playing the Yncarne requires a bunch of weird unintuitive play in other words, and I don't know if it's worth it, but it might be.

**karandrasss**

Marin wrote:
karandrasss wrote:
Yncarne can't ride in transports.

Is it affected by Tactical Reserves if you don't deploy it turn 1?

Also, how many Wraithblades does it take to kill a Castellan?

Tactical reserve rule should be applied.

The problem is how they are going to reach the Castellan and don`t all FW Knights have melee invuln. save.

Wave Serpents with 5++/6+++. I wonder if it's worth it.

**Moosatronic Warrior**

I've used the Yncarne quite a bit in the past, you could probably write an extensive tactica on utilising his teleport ability. A few notes:

- The most hilarious use of his ability is when the opponent sets up to kill him, but makes the mistake of killing another unit first- Zip! Yncarne is gone. This obviously requires a mistake from your opponent but his rules are so unique that it's happened a lot for me.

- He's an exceptional counter charge unit. If your opponent kills any of your units in assault, they're getting a visit from the Yncarne.

- Sending out small sacrificial units for him to teleport to is not a great strategy. It's kind of obvious so the opponent can choose to not take the bait, or set up to punish you if you do it. You need to use something more threatening than 3 jetbikes for this to work.

- Screen him with a unit that gives him teleport options if it dies. This difficult to explain and comes in many forms:

G G G G G G G G
G
G Y
G
G
G

G= Guardians.
Y= Yncarne

-In order to target the Yncarne the Guardians need to die.
-When the Guardians die, the Yncarne teleports to the location the last Guardian was removed from.
-You can set it up so that the place he moves to means he is no longer the closest model, or is out of range of whatever intended to kill him.

- He works best in an army with a lot of assault units. Get most of your army into the enemy lines so that whatever dies gives you options.

**karandrasss**

I also played the Yncarne extensively but am no longer sure of its value without double fight. D6 damage is too swingy, its warlord trait is awful, and there's too much invuln saves going around to rely on AP -4.

**Galef**

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
- Sending out small sacrificial units for him to teleport to is not a great strategy. It's kind of obvious so the opponent can choose to not take the bait, or set up to punish you if you do it. You need to use something more threatening than 3 jetbikes for this to work.

Alternatively, sending out "sacrificial" units out in an obvious manner like this could be used to protect those units. It might allow you to put otherwise fragile units in positions that they would normal get wiped, but if the opponent fears the Yncarne popping up there, they may ignore that unit. Thus allowing the unit to do some work.

Otherwise, some great points.

I've got a model that can be either an Avatar of Khiane or Yncarne and I debating with myself which would be best in a non-Ynnari CWE list. The points difference is really pushing it to Khaine.

Spoiler:

-

**Moosatronic Warrior**

karandrasss wrote:
I also played the Yncarne extensively but am no longer sure of its value without double fight. D6 damage is too swingy, its warlord trait is awful, and there's too much invuln saves going around to rely on AP -4.

Doesn't it have the best Warlord trait? +1 S and attack is ideal. The jump from S6 to S7 is very significant as it allows him to wound vehicles on 4's rerolled instead of 5's.

Some quick maths tells me his Warlord trait makes him do ~15 wounds on average vs T7, instead of ~10 without it.

**Amishprn86**

Galef wrote:
Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
- Sending out small sacrificial units for him to teleport to is not a great strategy. It's kind of obvious so the opponent can choose to not take the bait, or set up to punish you if you do it. You need to use something more threatening than 3 jetbikes for this to work.
Alternatively, sending out "sacrificial" units out in an obvious manner like this could be used to protect those units. It might allow you to put otherwise fragile units in positions that they would normal get wiped, but if the opponent fears the Yncarne popping up there, they may ignore that unit. Thus allowing the unit to do some work.

Otherwise, some great points.

I've got a model that can be either an Avatar of Khiane or Yncarne and I debating with myself which would be best in a non-Ynnari CWE list. The points difference is really pushing it to Khaine.

Spoiler:

-

The Yncarne Base is a 80mm, its a huge base, if it was 40mm vs a 50mm sure your model and that base i would say is fine, but a 40mm vs an 80mm? No you need to get another base for it (Just Magnetize the base onto the larger base)

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
karandrasss wrote:
I also played the Yncarne extensively but am no longer sure of its value without double fight. D6 damage is too swingy, its warlord trait is awful, and there's too much invuln saves going around to rely on AP -4.

Doesn't it have the best Warlord trait? +1 S and attack is ideal. The jump from S6 to S7 is very significant as it allows him to wound vehicles on 4's rerolled instead of 5's.

Some quick maths tells me his Warlord trait makes him do ~15 wounds on average vs T7, instead of ~10 without it.

Sure its a good WL trait but i dont think it makes up for its loses. It was consider "Playable" via top tables when it could attack twice, and could attack after teleporting. It lost both of those for +1atk and Str.

REMEMBER: It can re-roll wounds, so that +1 str isnt actually worth it all that much compare to double the attacks

Vs Rhino, 12 attacks, 2+ to hit re-roll wounds = 19.5 wounds
Vs Rhink, +1str, +1 attack, 2+/re-roll wounds = 15.3 wounds

**karandrasss**

I'm an idiot, I thought Yncarne got the LD debuff.

**Moosatronic Warrior**

Amishprn86 wrote:

Sure its a good WL trait but i dont think it makes up for its loses. It was consider "Playable" via top tables when it could attack twice, and could attack after teleporting. It lost both of those for +1atk and Str.

REMEMBER: It can re-roll wounds, so that +1 str isnt actually worth it all that much compare to double the attacks

Vs Rhino, 12 attacks, 2+ to hit re-roll wounds = 19.5 wounds
Vs Rhink, +1str, +1 attack, 2+/re-roll wounds = 15.3 wounds

I think some wires are crossed here, I wasn't comparing him to the previous rules, just with and without the warlord trait. There doesn't seem much point bringing up the old rules, that can only lead to misery!

The Yncarne is bad, no two ways about it, but if you're playing ynnari now you're playing for fun.

**vipoid**

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:

Doesn't it have the best Warlord trait? +1 S and attack is ideal. The jump from S6 to S7 is very significant as it allows him to wound vehicles on 4's rerolled instead of 5's.

Eh, can't say I find it particularly impressive myself. IMO going from S6 to S7 isn't all that significant.

Personally, though, I don't think I'd want Yncarne to be my warlord in the first place. I'd prefer having an Archon, Autarch or Farseer as my Warlord. That way I can take more risks with Yncarne without giving up VPs if he dies.

**bullyboy**

The Yncarne can still attack after teleporting, providing a unit is killed during the enemy's turn and you can teleport within 3" of an enemy unit and heroic intervene in the charge phase.

**karandrasss**

You can revive a warlord Farseer too, then it can heal itself.

**Galef**

Amishprn86 wrote:
The Yncarne Base is a 80mm, its a huge base, if it was 40mm vs a 50mm sure your model and that base i would say is fine, but a 40mm vs an 80mm? No you need to get another base for it (Just Magnetize the base onto the larger base)

Well, technically, that's a 50mm base my model it on. But as you mentioned, it's a super easy fix and I'm not even worried about it. If I decided to start using it as the Yncarne, I'll just get an 80mm (really? 80mm though? ok)

Segway from that, Any thoughts on including any of the 3 Characters (specifically the Yncarne) into just CWE lists?

-

**bullyboy**

Galef wrote:
Amishprn86 wrote:
The Yncarne Base is a 80mm, its a huge base, if it was 40mm vs a 50mm sure your model and that base i would say is fine, but a 40mm vs an 80mm? No you need to get another base for it (Just Magnetize the base onto the larger base)
Well, technically, that's a 50mm base my model it one. But as you mentioned, it's a super easy fix and I'm not even worried about it. If I decided to start using it as the Yncarne, I'll just get an 80mm (really? 80mm though? ok)

Segway from that, Any thoughts on including any of the 3 Characters (specifically the Yncarne) into just CWE lists?

-

haven't thought about it yet, just trying Ynnari list ideas first.
I will try the 2 wraithseer, Yvraine, wraithblades, serpent in my games as Ynnari to see how it fares.

**vipoid**

karandrasss wrote:
You can revive a warlord Farseer too, then it can heal itself.

Yeah, I was initially planning to use a Ynnari Autarch but I'm coming round to the idea of a Ynnari Farseer instead.

The only thing I dislike is that Farseers are so rubbish in combat. I know you don't want them there most of the time, but still it would be nice if they could benefit from the various Ynnari melee buffs.

Galef wrote:
Well, technically, that's a 50mm base my model it one. But as you mentioned, it's a super easy fix and I'm not even worried about it. If I decided to start using it as the Yncarne, I'll just get an 80mm (really? 80mm though? ok)

I'm pretty sue the Yncarne used to come with a 60mm base, so you could probably get away with that at least.

**Galef**

For those wondering, I just checked the GW website and it indeed says the Triumvirate included an 80mm round base. However, looking at the photos in comparison to the other models, this HAS to be a Typo. It's the 60mm (War Walker/Wraithlord) surely.

Can anyone with the model confirm?

-