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 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Hmm... no Edge Paint section of the new website.

This was mentioned on the Warhammer TV Facebook page. The Edge paints have been rolled in with the rest of the Layer paints

 Red Corsair wrote:

Chikout wrote:
Here's another example from Richard Gray. Painted in 30mins.
Here's what he said:

"So I've been playing about with the new Contrast Paints from Games Workshop and I wanted to see if I could get something done for gaming really quickly. I started by priming black and then a zenithal highlight of Wraithbone The marine you can see here is just one coat of Blood Angel Red for the base armour, one coat of Iyanden Yellow for the eagle and one coat of Black Templar for the gun. The gun glow was Aethermatic Blue. I think the blue could have done with a white base colour to be more effective. I added some very quick highlights by hand using Evil Sunz Scarlet, Wild Rider Red and Lugganth Orange, and I painted in the eyes with Moot Green and Yriel Yellow. The gun had some very quick upper edge highlights of Daemonette Hide. I then gave the whole model a coat of matte varnish. Total paint time was around 30 minutes not including waiting for it to dry. You could very easily knock out a 10 man squad of these in a day."

Primed black. Zenithaled beige. Based with contrast (only use). Then a three step/color edge highlight just on the armor. Matte varnish. This is the stuff with the potential for giving people unrealistic expectations. Only one step in 7 is using the contrast paint for that armor. Great looking model, but the massive loads of salt required for lower skill painters.

Yeah the fact that the armor is further highlighted makes it pretty pointless to see what the Contrast is actually doing without step by step photo's.

I would use the blue for my Ork jeans and leather for their jerkins. Quick and easy. Other than that, I could use these on my Bones kickstarter minis from Reaper.

Just another tool for the bag.

I don’t think the point was that Contrast was the final product. More that he was able to shortcut a mini in half an hour. A tool in the box to get (great) results in a short timeframe.

And it's not like zenith is some super complex that negates point of contrast paint anyway.

Well, sign me up for Contrast yellow.

I have some Oldhammer Britannia (?) miniatures, and some miniatures wear yellow cloth. The yellow is idealized, so I'm gonna need a shade that's not so brown that it looks even remotely dirty.

 greatbigtree wrote:
I don’t think the point was that Contrast was the final product. More that he was able to shortcut a mini in half an hour. A tool in the box to get (great) results in a short timeframe.

Well, sort of. He is just spit balling which gives a bogus impression. He clearly states it would be about 30 minutes if you factor out drying time. You can cut down on drying times by batch painting and I am sure he banged it out fast, but I always find it comical when folks start pairing down the process time by guessing how long it takes by factoring out things that can't be avoided and that you have no real way of measuring accurately. I mean, I am sure I can paint a mini in about 15 minutes if I factor out the piss breaks, coffee sips and time spent waffling over the color I want and tempering my paint perfectly. I'd rather he just share how long it took in real time, then speculate if he wants. Again, it gives a bit of a false impression to the folks this was targeted at. I would bet if he just glazed mephiston red into step 3 over that zenithal he'd have the model done in nearly the same timeframe with nearly identical results.

Either way I am excited to try these, but I know from talking to the folks at my local shop that this was geared for that some of them are definitely getting their expectations to unrealistic places. I feel photos like that, where an already super talented guy flexes a bit by shaving his dry times off and rounding the time frame (was basing included?) are giving bad info. I actually commend GW a bit for their more realistic video results even if they try to get you to use a dry pallet lol.


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tneva82 wrote:
And it's not like zenith is some super complex that negates point of contrast paint anyway.

Not sure who said that it did. Zenithals are used as prep for glazing, which is what he used the contrast paint for, which is basically what they are, only apparently ready out the pot and very well designed glazes.

 Red Corsair wrote:

Chikout wrote:
Here's another example from Richard Gray. Painted in 30mins.
Here's what he said:

"So I've been playing about with the new Contrast Paints from Games Workshop and I wanted to see if I could get something done for gaming really quickly. I started by priming black and then a zenithal highlight of Wraithbone The marine you can see here is just one coat of Blood Angel Red for the base armour, one coat of Iyanden Yellow for the eagle and one coat of Black Templar for the gun. The gun glow was Aethermatic Blue. I think the blue could have done with a white base colour to be more effective. I added some very quick highlights by hand using Evil Sunz Scarlet, Wild Rider Red and Lugganth Orange, and I painted in the eyes with Moot Green and Yriel Yellow. The gun had some very quick upper edge highlights of Daemonette Hide. I then gave the whole model a coat of matte varnish. Total paint time was around 30 minutes not including waiting for it to dry. You could very easily knock out a 10 man squad of these in a day."

Primed black. Zenithaled beige. Based with contrast (only use). Then a three step/color edge highlight just on the armor. Matte varnish. This is the stuff with the potential for giving people unrealistic expectations. Only one step in 7 is using the contrast paint for that armor. Great looking model, but the massive loads of salt required for lower skill painters.

I can’t tell if your trying to shoot this down or not. Even without the highlights it’s much less work than a noob painter would have to do with multiple layers of red just to achieve a smooth clean finish plus shading and yes doing the same highlights. I don’t seal my models as I’m not a great painter, but still slightly better than a beginner, so I’m not too worried about my models getting dinged. The effort here is easily achievable and the majority of the work (base colors), which I find tedious, is handled with one step.

If your not trying to knock it down I’m sorry, I must have misread, it’s just getting tiresome that the not target audience (target audience bring beginner painters not pro painters or veteran painters) keep trying to dismiss this as a boon for a new breed of painters.

If your a pro who uses airbrushes and competes in tournaments or sells models painted this may not be something for you, fine. But for those of us who have struggled over years to paint an army to look decent in our own eyes this looks to be amazing and I for one a more going to try it out. I. Sure Pros have tried various paints and inks and washes and I’m sure you have disagreements with others as to how good one item is over another, but stop naysaying and preaching that this isn’t the way before you even get your hands on it.

My rant is done.....for now.

Priming black + zenithal with white + using a glaze (actually also requires finesse, as people begin to realise when comparing some works to others or Citadel new videos) + highlights is a lot more work than I would recommend for a newbie when painting red.

 Shadenuat wrote:
Priming black + zenithal with white + using a glaze (actually also requires finesse, as people begin to realise when comparing some works to others or Citadel new videos) + highlights is a lot more work than I would recommend for a newbie when painting red.

This sort of thing just looks like concern trolling tbh. Richard Gray is a Golden Demon winner so newbs aren't painting any colour like him. Beginners can just slap some contrast red over the appropriate undercoat.

Richard Gray is a Golden Demon winner

That explains the 30 mins a lot better.

This is fun, I wonder which ludicrous quibble that also applies to every other method of painting except "undercoat it, then do nothing else" will be next?

I mean seriously, Red Corsair, you're going to object to the guy excluding drying time? Nobody sane factors in drying time when discussing the amount of effort required to paint something, because you don't have to expend any effort to make the paint dry. If you were using modelling tape to paint stripes on something, you'd have to let the varnish dry for a full 24 hours before you put the tape on, nobody sane claims that means painting the stripes takes more than a day of effort.

There's literally no way to win for GW here. If people post quick & sloppy results that qualify for "better than just grey plastic" people bawl that it's worthless slop, if someone posts results that prove it's also a useful timesaver for more advanced painters, people bawl that this just means it's worthless for newbies.

because you don't have to expend any effort to make the paint dry.

You mean I've been staring intently at my minis all this time for nothing?

I've wasted my life.

Chikout wrote:
This is what contrast paints look like when airbrushed over silver.

Airbrushing would seem to coat evenly and is totally working against the point of Contrast paints. Looks nice if you intend to do further highlights, but why not just brush it on? That’s how it’s meant to work.


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 Yodhrin wrote:
This is fun, I wonder which ludicrous quibble that also applies to every other method of painting except "undercoat it, then do nothing else" will be next?

I mean seriously, Red Corsair, you're going to object to the guy excluding drying time? Nobody sane factors in drying time when discussing the amount of effort required to paint something, because you don't have to expend any effort to make the paint dry. If you were using modelling tape to paint stripes on something, you'd have to let the varnish dry for a full 24 hours before you put the tape on, nobody sane claims that means painting the stripes takes more than a day of effort.

There's literally no way to win for GW here. If people post quick & sloppy results that qualify for "better than just grey plastic" people bawl that it's worthless slop, if someone posts results that prove it's also a useful timesaver for more advanced painters, people bawl that this just means it's worthless for newbies.

I’m sane and I factor drying time in. I can’t just magic that wash dry. Nope. Takes 45mins+

So it’s entirely sane to include that when talking about how long painting takes.

 JohnnyHell wrote:

Chikout wrote:
This is what contrast paints look like when airbrushed over silver.

Airbrushing would seem to coat evenly and is totally working against the point of Contrast paints. Looks nice if you intend to do further highlights, but why not just brush it on? That’s how it’s meant to work.

Because sometimes you don’t want that self-shading business and instead just want a really intense but transparent colour shift? In which case these things ready are magic because that is great.

 Mr_Rose wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:

Chikout wrote:
This is what contrast paints look like when airbrushed over silver.

Airbrushing would seem to coat evenly and is totally working against the point of Contrast paints. Looks nice if you intend to do further highlights, but why not just brush it on? That’s how it’s meant to work.

Because sometimes you don’t want that self-shading business and instead just want a really intense but transparent colour shift? In which case these things ready are magic because that is great.

Well as long as it works that well if it isn’t airbrushed on and looks a good finish, then I’d give that a go for something. (Don’t have any metallic paint schemes but might find something that’ll have it if so)

I"ll just add that pretty much every "this is what will happen if you use our product" is particularly bogus when it comes to paints!

No way can I get that good with *any* hobby paint.
No way could a professional painter paint *all* the miniatures in a KS pledge to that level.
No way will that PVC KS miniature hold the details shown in that professionally painted resin sample.
No way will a PVC hold as much detail as that resin *or* that render.

We're not alone, of course. Women do not become supermodels by dying their hair. Men do not become fertility magnets by using deodorant.

 JohnnyHell wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
This is fun, I wonder which ludicrous quibble that also applies to every other method of painting except "undercoat it, then do nothing else" will be next?

I mean seriously, Red Corsair, you're going to object to the guy excluding drying time? Nobody sane factors in drying time when discussing the amount of effort required to paint something, because you don't have to expend any effort to make the paint dry. If you were using modelling tape to paint stripes on something, you'd have to let the varnish dry for a full 24 hours before you put the tape on, nobody sane claims that means painting the stripes takes more than a day of effort.

There's literally no way to win for GW here. If people post quick & sloppy results that qualify for "better than just grey plastic" people bawl that it's worthless slop, if someone posts results that prove it's also a useful timesaver for more advanced painters, people bawl that this just means it's worthless for newbies.

I’m sane and I factor drying time in. I can’t just magic that wash dry. Nope. Takes 45mins+

So it’s entirely sane to include that when talking about how long painting takes.

And, what, you're shackled to your chair in a head brace forcing you to stare at the model for those 45 mins?

Nobody sane counts drying time because sane people use those 45 minutes(by all accounts in the case of Contrast, more like 10-15) to do other things.

If it takes twenty minutes to make a pie, and an hour to cook the pie, then it takes twenty minutes to make the pie because that's the amount of time you spend making it.

For me, drying time means "time to wash up a cook dinner. If I'm doing a commission, I don't factor that time in because I'm not working on the models while they're drying.

 EnTyme wrote:
For me, drying time means "time to wash up a cook dinner. If I'm doing a commission, I don't factor that time in because I'm not working on the models while they're drying.

Exactly, because if your a commission painter your probably working on another model while that ones drying. Unless you get paid for painting by the hour of one would charge drying time as part of the commission fee .if they do then they should charge delivery time as well because they couldn’t start another model while UPS is carrying the package to the purchasers door.

The above is not aimed at you EnTyme

I wonder how hard it is to touch up mistakes. A lot of the pictures look good except for some sloppy bits.

 kestral wrote:
I wonder how hard it is to touch up mistakes. A lot of the pictures look good except for some sloppy bits.

A steady hand is really going to help, but if you make a mistake, you just go over a bit of the area with the basecoat (primer colors sold in a pot) and reapply the contrast.

The thing that I've heard is that contrast dries very thin, which is great because mistakes won't gunk up nice details. The downside is that you NEED TO VARNISH after you're done. Whether you spray varnish or give it a coat of matte varnish with a brush, you really need to protect these models.

If you keep all your minis lumped together in a plastic bag, Contrast paints WILL chip off faster than normal paints.

If you protect your expensive models like a sane person, you shouldn't have as much of an issue.

 Theophony wrote:

 EnTyme wrote:
For me, drying time means "time to wash up a cook dinner. If I'm doing a commission, I don't factor that time in because I'm not working on the models while they're drying.

Exactly, because if your a commission painter your probably working on another model while that ones drying. Unless you get paid for painting by the hour of one would charge drying time as part of the commission fee .if they do then they should charge delivery time as well because they couldn’t start another model while UPS is carrying the package to the purchasers door.

The above is not aimed at you EnTyme

Lol! I don't charge by the hour, but I do log my time so I have something to show them when someone asks why it took me a month to paint their army.

I'm really looking forward to these. I'm a godawful painter and my current process is like 5-7 stages to get my DG to what I'd consider an acceptable, slightly-above-minimum-tabletop standard.

What I'm most excited about is these paints actually getting into the public so people can work out what's true, what's marketing hype, how they play with other colours, what you can mix them with, whether 3rd parties can come up with something similar etc.

that, and getting a nice off-white in two steps will help me out immensely

I am genuinely excited about the Contrast paints and I already told my FLGS that I am interested in trying the whole range.

I consider myself as a good painter but I struggle to get anything finished, especially now that I don't go to tournaments anymore. Ten years ago I tried dipping and finished a lot of models for two reasons - I was excited to see the effect itself and it also acted as a finishing step. Getting something done increased my motivation to paint - that is something that I have lacked for past several years.

At first I am going to try "full contrast" on smaller projects such as Bloodbowl teams, Necromunda Gangs or Blackstone Fortress. Eventually, I expect them to become just another tool in the toolbox, to save time in certain parts of the model such as skin, fur or base.

 kestral wrote:
I wonder how hard it is to touch up mistakes. A lot of the pictures look good except for some sloppy bits.

From this tweet by @MengelMinis:

Somewhere within the area I circled I got some blue on the red robes. I painted over the spot with the primer color and then hit it with the red Contrast again, and now I can't even tell where the spot is! It covers so well.

 JohnnyHell wrote:

Chikout wrote:
This is what contrast paints look like when airbrushed over silver.

Airbrushing would seem to coat evenly and is totally working against the point of Contrast paints. Looks nice if you intend to do further highlights, but why not just brush it on? That’s how it’s meant to work.

Presumably something like vallejos transparent effect aimed. Something you can't do with gw air. And vallejo transparent range is pretty small(3 i think) so other colours that could do similar effect could be nice

Funny that paints can be used in many ways. First reference to vallejo transparents wasn't related at all making metallic sheened blue or red or metallic at all

 Yodhrin wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
This is fun, I wonder which ludicrous quibble that also applies to every other method of painting except "undercoat it, then do nothing else" will be next?

I mean seriously, Red Corsair, you're going to object to the guy excluding drying time? Nobody sane factors in drying time when discussing the amount of effort required to paint something, because you don't have to expend any effort to make the paint dry. If you were using modelling tape to paint stripes on something, you'd have to let the varnish dry for a full 24 hours before you put the tape on, nobody sane claims that means painting the stripes takes more than a day of effort.

There's literally no way to win for GW here. If people post quick & sloppy results that qualify for "better than just grey plastic" people bawl that it's worthless slop, if someone posts results that prove it's also a useful timesaver for more advanced painters, people bawl that this just means it's worthless for newbies.

I’m sane and I factor drying time in. I can’t just magic that wash dry. Nope. Takes 45mins+

So it’s entirely sane to include that when talking about how long painting takes.

And, what, you're shackled to your chair in a head brace forcing you to stare at the model for those 45 mins?

Nobody sane counts drying time because sane people use those 45 minutes(by all accounts in the case of Contrast, more like 10-15) to do other things.

If it takes twenty minutes to make a pie, and an hour to cook the pie, then it takes twenty minutes to make the pie because that's the amount of time you spend making it.

So I’m insane. Good to know.

Maybe you can describe your preference without insulting people?

 JohnnyHell wrote:

I’m sane and I factor drying time in. I can’t just magic that wash dry. Nope. Takes 45mins+

So it’s entirely sane to include that when talking about how long painting takes.

Woot? You really just sit there watching paint to dry? As that's the only sane way time drying maters in paint time.

tneva82 wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:

I’m sane and I factor drying time in. I can’t just magic that wash dry. Nope. Takes 45mins+

So it’s entirely sane to include that when talking about how long painting takes.

Woot? You really just sit there watching paint to dry? As that's the only sane way time drying maters in paint time.

Point out where I said I watch it dry... can’t? Because I didn’t.

I can’t magically make painting a model fit into the time per session I have available by pretending some steps don’t take time. That’s my only and entire point.

If a commission painter doesn’t quote that time that’s irrelevant to me.

Cooking a meal doesn’t take 20 minutes if it needs an hour in the oven. Pretty handy illumination of my point, presented as a failed rebuttal.

Honestly people, save the edgy comments and fishing for a scrap. Would be nice if we could just discuss things without people’s need to polarise and argue.