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2019/05/05 20:25:22
Subject: April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs)
Martel732 wrote: You can roll them in, but why have so many different power armor kits in the game? Very little differentiates the armies, and the results are no different, either. There's just no reason to have these different chapters/factions from a game play standpoint. They don't add anything.
Well, there certainly is too much of pointless differentiation; I for one never wanted the subfaction traits. But then again, and aggressive, in-your-face, melee focused space marine army like BA are supposed to be is a perfectly valid concept. That it doesn't currently work so well doesn't mean it couldn't.
Furthermore, kits are not so much about game play than visual customisation.
Ice_can wrote: The problem is in many cases those primary win rate stats are 700-100 points of primary and 650, 650 or 999 points of other factions.
It's not surprising that older player's arn't exactlly happy with this you got soup to be able to make your army functional.
Evidently these marine factions can't even soup their way to victory.
No one was able to really match Ynnari and Castellans. Maybe we should wait and see how things shake out, yea?
What in the FAQ is going to stop most of these supposedly Marine primary lists having maybe 800-1300 points of marines and then 750- 300 points of guard plus flavour.
As far as I can tell the FAQ didn't impact that mix and match from 3 codex's is still a much more powerful way to play.
2019/05/05 21:33:29
Subject: Re:April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs)
This seriously devolved into a Blood Angels are the worst thread? It’s the FAQ thread. The dead horses thread is over there, with the bats and dead horses.
2019/05/05 21:37:02
Subject: April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs)
greatbigtree wrote: This seriously devolved into a Blood Angels are the worst thread? It’s the FAQ thread. The dead horses thread is over there, with the bats and dead horses.
My original observation was that there are three statistically redundant power armor armies that could all be eliminated with no impact on the game or the meta.
2019/05/05 23:35:28
Subject: April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs)
greatbigtree wrote: This seriously devolved into a Blood Angels are the worst thread? It’s the FAQ thread. The dead horses thread is over there, with the bats and dead horses.
My original observation was that there are three statistically redundant power armor armies that could all be eliminated with no impact on the game or the meta.
Because screw people who like their unique fluff and models, amirite?
2019/05/05 23:58:56
Subject: April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs)
How does sharing rules with another codex suddenly remove the fluff and models? Are the models automatically transformed into the generic models?
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
2019/05/06 00:55:48
Subject: April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs)
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote: How does sharing rules with another codex suddenly remove the fluff and models? Are the models automatically transformed into the generic models?
Well, considering Space Wolves have been claiming TWC don't exist or are actually Swiftclaws or Wolf Guard on Bikes it's not completely outside the realms of possibility. Dealing with the massively different bases on the other hand is an issue.
Joking aside I wouldn't mind the Space Wolves, Blood Angels and Dark Angels rolled into a single book since they're all kind of unique enough to be seperate from the vanilla host. On top of that most of the codex fluff is garbage and nearly half the pages are just photos that are recycled from White Dwarf and the 7th edition codexes, 70 out of 144 pages of the Space Wolves 8th ed Codex are a recycled waste of pages. Not sure about the Blood Angels and Dark Angels players but I could live with sharing a codex with them at the cost of the useless pages.
I don't break the rules but I'll bend them as far as they'll go.
2019/05/06 01:15:10
Subject: April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs)
Seabass wrote: I think the old mob up Lootah bomb was 15 lootas and 10 lootas to get a total of 25 IIRC right?
I also think you had to get the 3 shots to go off, which a command reroll really helps with, but obviously doesn't guarantee it. ( i use the word "think" a lot because I'm, not an Ork player, I'm just attempting to recall what I have seen happen on more than one occasion, forgive the crudeness of this post and if it's inaccurate, please accept that I'm not an Ork player by any stretch)
25 hits out of 75 shots
3 hits out of the 9 or 10 ones you will roll in that mess for rerolling ones.
that's 28 hits.
that will net you another 9 hits based on the exploding 5+ of those 9 hits for exploding dice.
1 or 2 ones will show up in that reroll process, netting you a few more chances to hit. likely getting one more (I think the math is two more, but I'm not 100 on that) hit in that mess for a total of 38 hits
getting about 13 or 14 wounds through.
that will result in 4 or 5 unsaved wounds going through, causing between 8 and 10 damage.
now, do all of that again.
so if we just go strictly by the rough numbers (and this is all head math and I've dropped any fraction or anything that didn't divide evenly, so forgive the really elementary version of it) but I don't think you have to spike much to kill one, and I think if you can get just a few wounds in with a shock relic or another ork cannon I think you can pretty reliably do it on one turn. As an aside note, i have seen this sequence take down a castellan without any help, and did it all on their own. with the 4++ now instead of the 3++ the number of wounds that translate to damage go up (i did this assuming only 1/3 of the wounds would translate into damage)
I've seen it happen on tables next to me in ITC. frankly, as an Aeldari player, there is nothing I am more scared of than lootahs, even 15 of them is scary as hell for hemlocks.
But, the point is, the firepower is there, and the only real "dicey" variable is the number of shots. I think it's easier than you think. Its not guaranteed in one turn, and my post made it sound like that and I shouldn't have spoken in that level of an absolute, as its not, but I think the other side of this is that it is WAY easier to do than your post is letting on, with the key, of course, being bad moons (I think) rerolling ones, and generating more exploding shots from that and with the shoot again stratagem (which I think is a bad moons stratagem, but again, im not sure on that)
Most players only took 20 lootas because its such a points sink. But if you take 25 Lootas that is 425pts, plus the 90 grots to shield for another 270, you are looking at 695pts for a Loota bomb. Those 25 lootas average 50 shots a turn not 75, even with reroll you are more likely to get 2 then 3, especially since you only use it if you roll a 1 or a 2. So on aver that is 50 shots getting 16.66 hits, 8.33 1s get to be rerolled immediately which averages about 2.77 more hits you then reroll all the hits which is 19.4ish you get 6.47 more hits and 3.2 more 1 which reroll for 1 more hit which can't trigger dakkax3 so 7.47 extra hits for a grand total of about 27 hits. Against T8 that is 9 wounds, against the 4+ save that is 4.5 that go through which averages 9 damage a turn, use shoot again strat and its up to 18. And that is rolling on average. So to kill a knight Castellan which has 28 wounds you will need to roll more then 50% better then average.
And on the flipside it takes minimal effort for IG players with a Knight to kill the grot shields in 1 turn. Again, if you target the grots first they are 2+ to wound with S4 weapons, and if they are in a squad of 10 you need only kill 6 to reliably wipe them out with morale. 10 guardsmen at double tap range can do this relatively easily. If they are in mobz of 30 then simply killing 17 wipes them out from morale. Loota bombs were good, but they weren't insta win buttons and they required 7 CP on average turn 1 to function. Turn 2 they were down to 6 CP a turn but at that point you are basically out of CP.
It's not even just that it was easy to kill the grot screens. There's something I think a lot of people forget about Mob Rule: Its used during the end of the movement phase. Otherwise, if you don't get first turn/ you have two loota units that can be shot at and only one can be protected by grot screen.
So before you even get to the effectiveness of the loota bomb itself, it's a tactic that ONLY works if the ork player goes first.
Martel732 wrote: By 40stats, BA have a win rate of 34% as primary. SW and DA are each at 40%. They aren't adding anything to the game. That's where I'm coming from.
That's not a reason, I can't even...
Edit: Nevermind, not worth it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/06 03:14:00
2019/05/06 04:14:41
Subject: April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs)
Martel732 wrote: By 40stats, BA have a win rate of 34% as primary. SW and DA are each at 40%. They aren't adding anything to the game. That's where I'm coming from.
That's not a reason, I can't even...
Edit: Nevermind, not worth it.
That's a very valid reason. They are useless. Useless things are to be discarded.
2019/05/06 04:17:57
Subject: April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs)
Martel732 wrote: By 40stats, BA have a win rate of 34% as primary. SW and DA are each at 40%. They aren't adding anything to the game. That's where I'm coming from.
That's not a reason, I can't even...
Edit: Nevermind, not worth it.
That's a very valid reason. They are useless. Useless things are to be discarded.
Bye necrons, GK, half of eldar, half of guard, half of chaos, etc...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/06 04:18:14
2019/05/06 04:26:22
Subject: April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs)
Martel732 wrote: Those armies at least provide meta diversity. BA, DA, SW dont' even do that. Just more boring power armor.
Who cares if a faction brings something to the meta?
The existence of a faction is not related to the meta, it's first of all related to the collectionist side of the hobby.
Q: "Is there a percentage of players who actually care for faction x, collect it's models and are interested in the fluff?"
If the answer is yes, then that faction has a right to exist, even if it composed by 1W 1T models without save at 200 points each.
"Meta" is also a big word. ITC meta is not 40K meta, that is not ETC meta. 2000 point meta is not 500 point meta, which is not 1000 point meta... and so on and so on. Matched is not open which is not narrative. There are so many ways to play the game that any statement based on the concept of "meta" is baseless.
2019/05/06 06:32:42
Subject: April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs)
Martel732 wrote: By 40stats, BA have a win rate of 34% as primary. SW and DA are each at 40%. They aren't adding anything to the game. That's where I'm coming from.
That's not a reason, I can't even...
Edit: Nevermind, not worth it.
That's a very valid reason. They are useless. Useless things are to be discarded.
Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.
Kanluwen wrote: This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.
Confirmation of why no-one should listen to Kanluwen when it comes to the IG - he doesn't want the IG, he want's Kan's New Model Army...
tneva82 wrote: You aren't even trying ty pretend for honest arqument. Open bad faith trolling.
- No reason to keep this here, unless people want to use it for something...
2019/05/06 06:50:25
Subject: April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs)
Most players only took 20 lootas because its such a points sink. But if you take 25 Lootas that is 425pts, plus the 90 grots to shield for another 270, you are looking at 695pts for a Loota bomb. Those 25 lootas average 50 shots a turn not 75, even with reroll you are more likely to get 2 then 3, especially since you only use it if you roll a 1 or a 2. So on aver that is 50 shots getting 16.66 hits, 8.33 1s get to be rerolled immediately which averages about 2.77 more hits you then reroll all the hits which is 19.4ish you get 6.47 more hits and 3.2 more 1 which reroll for 1 more hit which can't trigger dakkax3 so 7.47 extra hits for a grand total of about 27 hits. Against T8 that is 9 wounds, against the 4+ save that is 4.5 that go through which averages 9 damage a turn, use shoot again strat and its up to 18. And that is rolling on average. So to kill a knight Castellan which has 28 wounds you will need to roll more then 50% better then average.
And on the flipside it takes minimal effort for IG players with a Knight to kill the grot shields in 1 turn. Again, if you target the grots first they are 2+ to wound with S4 weapons, and if they are in a squad of 10 you need only kill 6 to reliably wipe them out with morale. 10 guardsmen at double tap range can do this relatively easily. If they are in mobz of 30 then simply killing 17 wipes them out from morale. Loota bombs were good, but they weren't insta win buttons and they required 7 CP on average turn 1 to function. Turn 2 they were down to 6 CP a turn but at that point you are basically out of CP.
Im sorry if I gave the impression they were an instant win. they clearly weren't. But they are also more effective than you are alluding too. Getting the 3 shots is largely predicated on a reroll, but I think about half of the time on a command reroll it happens (as an aggregate between the two dice rolls, but honestly, I've never looked it up or did the math, I just heard that somewhere and it kind of made sense).
When we start looking at things like how easily the grots are to kill, or how easy it is to wipe out a unit of them, I don't know how many guardsmen are going to be in range before they get a chance to fire, though I suppose if you deploy the Lootas far enough forward and the guardsman does too, its probably quite possible. Most of the time when I see them, I see the grots in concentric rings overlapping each other protecting the lootas, who are deployed for safety, and some of the characters. Maybe that's the wrong way to do it, I'm not honestly sure, but it seemed pretty good to me. Also, drawing LoS to those little buggers can be a PITA, especially when most tables i see are all <insret GW ruins kit here> for the vast majority of their terrain.
It totally does use a TON of CP to do, but most ork lists I have seen run double battalion, I have even heard of (but not seen) some run triple battalion (given how expensive everything is, im not sure how that works points wise) but honestly, even if its half of your existing CP pool, if you did it to get rid of 1/3 or so of your opponents army, I would certainly do so, especially if it only came at the cost of the activations of the one unit, and not the rest of the army.
I totally understand how frustrating it is to have a cool interaction nerfed, but like doom and jinx (I play Aeldari and Drukhari) it probably wasn't intended or with the nerfing of the castellan they didn't want lesser knights getting evaporated in one round from them.
2019/05/06 08:34:53
Subject: April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs)
Eihnlazer wrote: This is because GW don't see the problem with how they gave assault weapons permission to fire after you advance.
They don't even understand their own rules.
This comes from a few things.
The rules writers aren't actively working together, they just do their own thing.
The editors are horrible (many typos make it through even though they price their books at a premium), and don't understand the rules they are editing.
The people up top are not worried about perfection from their employee's, as they make enough money to be perfectly happy with being the crappiest high end hobby studio.
GW is GW because its British. It would be nowhere like this if the company was based in any other country. Not saying this to offend British folks, just stating a fact. British companies do not mostly "Strive for Excellence". They just throw parties when they show profit.
Where it is written makes little difference, you walk round warhammer world and there employees of many nations there. The English educational system covers all basic tenets of the written language to some degree, even if not always perfectly.
I'm curious if this is an image shared by most though.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/06 10:15:59
2019/05/06 08:41:16
Subject: April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs)
Luke_Prowler wrote: It's not even just that it was easy to kill the grot screens. There's something I think a lot of people forget about Mob Rule: Its used during the end of the movement phase. Otherwise, if you don't get first turn/ you have two loota units that can be shot at and only one can be protected by grot screen.
So before you even get to the effectiveness of the loota bomb itself, it's a tactic that ONLY works if the ork player goes first.
That's why if you go second you hide them. So without ignore los weapons(plenty) 100% bullet proof
2024 painted/bought: 109/109
2019/05/06 08:55:52
Subject: April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs)
Eihnlazer wrote: This is because GW don't see the problem with how they gave assault weapons permission to fire after you advance.
They don't even understand their own rules.
This comes from a few things.
The rules writers aren't actively working together, they just do their own thing.
The editors are horrible (many typos make it through even though they price their books at a premium), and don't understand the rules they are editing.
The people up top are not worried about perfection from their employee's, as they make enough money to be perfectly happy with being the crappiest high end hobby studio.
GW is GW because its British. It would be nowhere like this if the company was based in any other country. Not saying this to offend British folks, just stating a fact. British companies do not mostly "Strive for Excellence". They just throw parties when they show profit.
Where it is written makes little difference, you walk round warhammer world and there employees of many nations there. The English educational system covers all basic tenants of the written language to some degree, even if not always perfectly.
I'm curious if this is an image shared by most though.
Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.
Kanluwen wrote: This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.
Confirmation of why no-one should listen to Kanluwen when it comes to the IG - he doesn't want the IG, he want's Kan's New Model Army...
tneva82 wrote: You aren't even trying ty pretend for honest arqument. Open bad faith trolling.
- No reason to keep this here, unless people want to use it for something...
2019/05/06 10:13:51
Subject: April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs)
Eihnlazer wrote: This is because GW don't see the problem with how they gave assault weapons permission to fire after you advance.
They don't even understand their own rules.
This comes from a few things.
The rules writers aren't actively working together, they just do their own thing.
The editors are horrible (many typos make it through even though they price their books at a premium), and don't understand the rules they are editing.
The people up top are not worried about perfection from their employee's, as they make enough money to be perfectly happy with being the crappiest high end hobby studio.
GW is GW because its British. It would be nowhere like this if the company was based in any other country. Not saying this to offend British folks, just stating a fact. British companies do not mostly "Strive for Excellence". They just throw parties when they show profit.
Where it is written makes little difference, you walk round warhammer world and there employees of many nations there. The English educational system covers all basic tenants of the written language to some degree, even if not always perfectly.
I'm curious if this is an image shared by most though.
Psst... tenet, not tenant.
Yeah, I missed that it was an auto correct thanks to my phone :(
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/05/06 10:15:13
2019/05/06 14:03:46
Subject: April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs)
I wish they would make the rules more user friendly, and consolidated.
Also GW doesn't build rules that let them modify them when needed.
Like if they put down the overwatch rule and said You need to roll a 6+ to hit, unless you hit automatically or have Defensive fire.
But then put in Defensive fire you hit in overwatch on the number indicated in parentesiste after the Defensive Overwatch. so like Defensive Fire (5+) or Defensive fire (4+)
Some stuff like that would fix the issues they keep building into the game.
2019/05/06 14:21:06
Subject: April FAQs released (PSA: Castellan points changes and Assassin changes not in the right FAQs)
Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.
Kanluwen wrote: This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.
Confirmation of why no-one should listen to Kanluwen when it comes to the IG - he doesn't want the IG, he want's Kan's New Model Army...
tneva82 wrote: You aren't even trying ty pretend for honest arqument. Open bad faith trolling.
- No reason to keep this here, unless people want to use it for something...
Bonespitta's Badmoons 1441 pts. 
