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Made in au
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Making Stuff






Under the couch

 Grey Templar wrote:


Wind power is limited to very specific areas, is extremely unreliable, and kills birds.
Solar is woefully space inefficient, uses rare materials, and only works during the daylight.
Tidal power is a joke.

Nuclear power generation proportionately kills just as many birds as wind turbines do. And wind power once networked is no more unreliable than any other power generation method.

Solar being space inefficient really depends on the application. It's become possible to completely power your house with a decent solar array on your roof... Which is otherwise just unused space... And the fact that it 'doesn' t work' at night is irrelevant if it's generating enough for demand.

Sure, both of those systems are currently not as efficient as they ideally could be. That will happen when a technology is largely ignored for 30 years. The sharp and sudden advancement over the last few years since people started taking solar power seriously us just the start.

 
   
Made in ch
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





 insaniak wrote:
 Grey Templar wrote:


Wind power is limited to very specific areas, is extremely unreliable, and kills birds.
Solar is woefully space inefficient, uses rare materials, and only works during the daylight.
Tidal power is a joke.

Nuclear power generation proportionately kills just as many birds as wind turbines do. And wind power once networked is no more unreliable than any other power generation method.

Solar being space inefficient really depends on the application. It's become possible to completely power your house with a decent solar array on your roof... Which is otherwise just unused space... And the fact that it 'doesn' t work' at night is irrelevant if it's generating enough for demand.

Sure, both of those systems are currently not as efficient as they ideally could be. That will happen when a technology is largely ignored for 30 years. The sharp and sudden advancement over the last few years since people started taking solar power seriously us just the start.


Case in point, if the germans would really work out their supply and the italians, we could theorethically store the power per pumps into lakes in switzerland. god knows we have enough places to build dams.

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A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
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Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

One line of thinking is that whilst many home grown green measures might not change the world on their own, they do start to train new generations growing up to be more environmentally aware. So part of it might be a generation game whereby you change the attitudes of younger people and as they rise up into positions of power in the future they carry some of that attitude with them.

So whilst sorting your home rubbish doesn't help the fact that companies shovel the packaging rubbish on you to start with, it might well lead to changing attitudes somewhere at the top end of companies in the future to consider less harmful packaging.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Not Online!!! wrote:

Case in point, if the germans would really work out their supply and the italians, we could theorethically store the power per pumps into lakes in switzerland. god knows we have enough places to build dams.


Dams appear to be on the out somewhat. The problem is they are high costs to maintain and if you don't dredge them regularly they silt up and die on their own. Also they can have vast changes to the river systems below them, just look at how the Nile delta is slowly falling apart because dams built further up (and other flood control measures) means that it doesn't get the huge floods and deposits of silt being moved down to rebuild the delta every year. That's the core farming regions of Egypt under threat from dams built mostly for power generation.

And that's before you consider the huge ecological changes to the regions behind the dam which are flooded.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/05/03 09:35:00


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Under the couch

 Overread wrote:

So whilst sorting your home rubbish doesn't help the fact that companies shovel the packaging rubbish on you to start with, it might well lead to changing attitudes somewhere at the top end of companies in the future to consider less harmful packaging.

Some of that is already kicking in, down here. There's been a lot of pushback over unnecessary packaging (shops packaging bananas in shrink-wrapped, polystyrene trays was apparently the last straw for a lot of people), and a big push in the last couple of years to get everyone using reusable shopping bags and the like. My daughter's school has a big focus on promoting 'nude' lunches, encouraging people to eliminate any unnecessary packaging in their kids' lunchboxes. And our last round of particularly bad drought seems to have gone a long way towards changing many peoples' attitudes towards appropriate water use...


It's a gradual process, but doing what you can, when you can, and encouraging the next generation to do better does have an effect.

 
   
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Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

Aye, we keep getting bannanas in plastic wrapping and can't work out what the benefit is (esp since all they do is sweat in the bag....).

There's a lot of things that come in plastic and its hard to work out the reason why it needs to be. Another avenue is that a lot of products we buy today used to just get sold loose. Eg screws and nails you'd use to just get a weight out of the stores hopper and carry it home in a thick paper bag rather than a pre allocated weight in a tiny plastic packet.

Part of this is the shift to self service in shops. In the past the store owner would fetch the items you wanted so they knew you couldn't steal them. Today a lot of plastic is used to prevent theft or at least reduce it (though if you were stealing you'd just take the whole packet so I'm not sure how effective it really is).


Another big issue is delivery services. UK is certianly heading the way that soon we won't have much if any highstreet and many things will arrive by 5 vans each day from 5 different delivery services. Whilst I love amazon for their speed of delivery one wonders if it couldn't be FAR more organised (a shame that Royal Mail somewhat dropped the ball and is now just a regular competing company not doing it all as at least then it all went through 1 van per day).

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 Overread wrote:
Aye, we keep getting bannanas in plastic wrapping and can't work out what the benefit is (esp since all they do is sweat in the bag....).

There's a lot of things that come in plastic and its hard to work out the reason why it needs to be. Another avenue is that a lot of products we buy today used to just get sold loose. Eg screws and nails you'd use to just get a weight out of the stores hopper and carry it home in a thick paper bag rather than a pre allocated weight in a tiny plastic packet.

Part of this is the shift to self service in shops. In the past the store owner would fetch the items you wanted so they knew you couldn't steal them. Today a lot of plastic is used to prevent theft or at least reduce it (though if you were stealing you'd just take the whole packet so I'm not sure how effective it really is).


Another big issue is delivery services. UK is certianly heading the way that soon we won't have much if any highstreet and many things will arrive by 5 vans each day from 5 different delivery services. Whilst I love amazon for their speed of delivery one wonders if it couldn't be FAR more organised (a shame that Royal Mail somewhat dropped the ball and is now just a regular competing company not doing it all as at least then it all went through 1 van per day).


One of the worst exemples here is Cookies: Basically the cookie packet is wrapped in plastic, then there is the cardboard packet itself, within there is a plastic holder for them and that is wrapped with plastic again.
It's like a bloody babushka made out of plastic and cardboard

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/03 14:40:24


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The Great State of Texas

 insaniak wrote:
 ZergSmasher wrote:
If more people would stop being afraid of nuclear power plants, ...

That's not going to happen. Not while we have examples like Chernobyl and Fukishima showing what happens when something goes wrong.


And not when you have safer options becoming more widely available all the time.


We...don't actually. Tidal is a potential, but its hideously expensive when you factor in maintenance costs.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
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 Grey Templar wrote:
 Ouze wrote:
 ZergSmasher wrote:
If more people would stop being afraid of nuclear power plants, we could eliminate coal completely and have a very clean energy source that doesn't foul up the atmosphere. Storing all that nuclear waste could get to be a problem, but perhaps ultimately it'll become economically feasible to just launch that stuff into space or into the sun or something.


There are a lot of reasons this doesn't work, but let's pick the one biggest, most obvious one.

Imagine what a launch accident would like like - spraying 20 tons of nuclear waste over potentially populated areas.

There have been 135 shuttle missions. Out of those, 6 had serious accidents (2 killed the entire crew and lost the vehicle).

There are 60 nuclear power plants in the US, producing 1200 tons of nuclear waste a year. Assuming the worst case 1 horrible accident per 70 flights, that works out to about one hideous, unprecedented nuclear waste disaster every single year, more or less (and that's if you only start shipping out the new waste).



Yeah. Launching nuclear waste into space is dumb.

But storing it under a mountain somewhere is perfectly viable. Dealing with nuclear waste is hardly a monumental challenge.


It is a monumental challenge because of the timescale in question.

Even if you have a single minimum-wage caretsker (and it will take substantially more than that) you're looking at thousands of years.

We're still learning new things about how some compounds degrade.

Nuclear needs a place in the energy mix for many good reasons, but waste disposal is the biggest challenge.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/03 14:45:31


 
   
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Bristol

There is also geothermal, for the areas which can make use of it.

Best power generation method we have at the moment but is very limited by the conditions required to make use of it.

The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.

Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
 
   
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UK

The main risk with nuclear long term storage is that when you look at history the longest running empire was only around 500 years old (give or take) and through that period it went through vast changes in its size and organisation.


500 years is a drop in the ocean when it comes to radioactive breakdown so ideas like throwing it at the sun or storing it on the moon or other off-world storage ideas are not all that daft. Granted they have an insane short term cost, but the long term saving is even greater. Furthermore nuclear waste is dangerous and in a breakdown of society it would become a major potential threat that could be exploited.

Of course its not the only such material and there are things being developed that would make a nuclear detonation seem almost trivial (virus warfare for example).



That said I think nuclear is the future unless we discover something "new". The real boon would be increased global interconnectivity and stability thus allowing development of nuclear power plants within safe regions and then efficent transportation of power to more riskier areas. Japan and most of the countries and regions on the Ring of Fire is not a safe place and is at risk from major geological instabilities.

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UK

The problem with trying to get nuclear waste off world is we just don't have reliable enough launch vehicles, one thing you really, really don't want is a lot of highly dangerous radioactive waste being spread about high in the atmosphere because a rocket went bang


Another thing to keep in mind about stuff like recycling is even if the waste isn't dealt with well now is it takes an age for the population to change their habits even though they know they should

(just look at drink driving, it took about 30 years for most people to come round to the idea that it's bad and there are still significant numbers of folk who disagree or just don't think)

so getting the population used to collecting, sorting and segregating their rubbish is worth doing, and the more people that do it, and the better they do it the easier it is to get a viable industy set up to do something useful with the waste (and that would be so much easier with national standards rather than every council doing their own thing meaning all the recyclers have to be small as if they get bigger they end up with different sorts of waste streams mking it harder to process)

and at the end of the day we may have to decide recycling some stuff will never be commercially viable so it will have to be paid for either by the state, or the manufacturer or the consumer, again it will be far easier if those parts of the waste stream are already being collected rather than waiting for another age for folk to get used to doing so

 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut




Nuclear power plants aren't much of a solution. They are very costly to buid and maintain. Their fuel is rather hard to extract and refine and in limited quantity. Waste management is also a big problem as it's very expensive.

A combination of wind, solar, hydroelectric, tidal, current, geothermal, biomass and fuel efficency remains by far the best option, but development and investments in these technologies was too low for far too long. We missed two of our best window to prevent major climate changes in the late 70's and in the early 2000's. Now, we will need to make some fairly uncomfortable compromises.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/03 15:49:42


 
   
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A Protoss colony world

When I mentioned launching nuclear waste into space, I wasn't talking about immediately. We do need to improve our spaceflight technology first. Otherwise we will end up with exploding rockets turning into the world's biggest "dirty bombs".

Another thing that they really need to keep working on is fusion power. I know it's probably a long way off, but they need to not give up. Like any technology, we can get there if we just keep looking at the problems with it and finding way to solve said problems.

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Bristol

The problem with launching waste into space isn't safety. We have developed incredibly safe launch vehicles, such as the Saturn V and Soyuz.

The issue is payload. For this to be viable you need a system capable of carrying a very large payload with the delta-v required to send it on a trajectory out of earth orbit. And yes, we are just getting this out of earth orbit and not sending it into the sun. It's not going to reach the sun. Install the demo of Kerbal Space Program and try to launch a kerbal into the sun. It is actually very hard due to the massive delta-v required to counter the velocity of the earth. To send it into the sun would require a gravity slingshot around Jupiter at the very least.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/03 16:44:19


The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.

Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
 
   
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Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

 A Town Called Malus wrote:
The problem with launching waste into space isn't safety. We have developed incredibly safe launch vehicles, such as the Saturn V and Soyuz.

The issue is payload. For this to be viable you need a system capable of carrying a very large payload with the delta-v required to send it on a trajectory out of earth orbit. And yes, we are just getting this out of earth orbit and not sending it into the sun. It's not going to reach the sun. Install the demo of Kerbal Space Program and try to launch a kerbal into the sun. It is actually very hard due to the massive delta-v required to counter the velocity of the earth.


Just reaching the Mun is hard enough! I dread to think how many Kerbles I've left floating in space!

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Bristol

 Overread wrote:


Just reaching the Mun is hard enough! I dread to think how many Kerbles I've left floating in space!


Hairiest moments for me was a rescue mission of a kerbal in a rocket in Kerbin orbit and a Mun rescue mission.

The Kerbin orbit rescue involved the stranded Kerbal having to eva out of his ship, and fly blindly out to to be in position to grab the rescue ship as it came past. Sweaty palms on that one.

The Mun rescue was to save the pilot of Mun 2, who had fethed up his landing and so did not have enough fuel to get home. So Mun 3 was repurposed to have a second command pod left empty for him to sit in. It managed to land around 1km from Mun 2's landing zone and, after a long walk, the lost Kerbal was on board and swiftly brought home.

The Laws of Thermodynamics:
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 insaniak wrote:
 ZergSmasher wrote:
If more people would stop being afraid of nuclear power plants, ...

That's not going to happen. Not while we have examples like Chernobyl and Fukishima showing what happens when something goes wrong.


And not when you have safer options becoming more widely available all the time.

Indeed

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
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Under the couch

 Overread wrote:

That said I think nuclear is the future unless we discover something "new".

The future is likely to be fusion, once they figure out how to get the process started without using more power than it gives back out again.

In the meantime, though, I expect that over the next 20 years the bulk of our suburban residential electricity generation at least will go solar, with it becoming standard for new houses. Likewise for any businesses with enough roof space and low enough energy demands for it to be practical.



 
   
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Pleasant Valley, Iowa

 Overread wrote:
I dread to think how many Kerbles I've left floating in space!


I had a Kerbal that I tried to land on the Mun with, and I somehow messed it up, and used the Mun as a slingshot. He's still out there somewhere, going faster and faster and faster, and since Kerbals don't age or need food or water, I guess he's never, ever going to die.

Not going to lie, I think about that now and then even though I have not played the game in a long time. I feel like a monster for what i did, even though it was an accident (and that he doesn't really exist).

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 Ouze wrote:
 ZergSmasher wrote:
If more people would stop being afraid of nuclear power plants, we could eliminate coal completely and have a very clean energy source that doesn't foul up the atmosphere. Storing all that nuclear waste could get to be a problem, but perhaps ultimately it'll become economically feasible to just launch that stuff into space or into the sun or something.


There are a lot of reasons this doesn't work, but let's pick the one biggest, most obvious one.

Imagine what a launch accident would like like - spraying 20 tons of nuclear waste over potentially populated areas.

There have been 135 shuttle missions. Out of those, 6 had serious accidents (2 killed the entire crew and lost the vehicle).

There are 60 nuclear power plants in the US, producing 1200 tons of nuclear waste a year. Assuming the worst case 1 horrible accident per 70 flights, that works out to about one hideous, unprecedented nuclear waste disaster every single year, more or less (and that's if you only start shipping out the new waste).



There's a further issue, the Earth's orbital velocity. It would actually take more energy (usually derived from rocket fuel) to decelerate the waste to drop it into the sun than it would take to accelerate it clear out of the solar system.

Rocket exhaust isn't exactly environmentally friendly either.

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Newcastle

 Grey Templar wrote:


Yeah. Launching nuclear waste into space is dumb.

But storing it under a mountain somewhere is perfectly viable. Dealing with nuclear waste is hardly a monumental challenge.


Maybe using the current method of launching into space, but space elevators or using magnetic rail catapults might end up being safer. Perhaps moot if we have fusion by that point but maybe we won't

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There are ways in which greening habits can have a tangible benefit in the extremely local sense; Closing down a coal plant has a both short and long term impact on just the local area, reducing pollution and improving the respiratory health of the population. Replacing home electronics reduces energy use and thus energy bills. Solar panels on the roof do the same in an overall sense.

I say we focus on those until people decide to give enough dams for a global initiative.

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So a good friend of mine has been taking serious strides at becoming a fire fighter in his post-military life, and he shared a VERY interesting (at least to me) article about home fires and burn time. . .

See, most fire services still calculate where their stations need to be, and how quickly they need to be going from receiving the call, to suiting up, to driving off in response on data gathered in the 1970s. In that time, it was largely found that a normal/accidental house fire (ie, arson involving something used to intentionally speed up the fire) would go at a rate of about 8 minutes per room. Today, in 2017 tests are showing that a house fire under the same circumstances goes at a rate of about 2 minutes per room.


Now, how does this relate to this thread??? Well, the investigations into what has changed and all that has found one thing above all others: most of our homes are now furnished largely with synthetic materials that, despite many labels to the contrary, burn much, much quicker than the older, solid and natural material furniture of our parents/grandparents. I mean, just looking at the room I am sitting in currently, the bookcases, desk, coffee table, "entertainment center" are all some variation of plywood material. The couches may have a solid wood frame, but the leather isn't genuine animal leather, and the cushions are whatever foam they use today is.

Many furniture makers are using these materials out of cost cutting, or they are making the absolute most out of a given raw material in order to be "good stewards" of the environment. But in the end, there's potential for further environmental damage later on, given the right circumstances.
   
Made in gb
Stubborn Dark Angels Veteran Sergeant





Teesside

Nuclear power is a bad idea, because the ongoing climate apocalypse is already severe enough, and worsening rapidly enough, that we can expect at least some societal breakdown over the next few years, even in countries where that would be unexpected (Europe/USA etc.). Who is going to operate, and later, decommission the nuclear plants, if say the USA is partly on fire, partly flooded, partly turned to desert, and mostly starving?

All feels a bit far-fetched, I know, till you consider that both the Californian wildfires and the flooding in the Midwest are climate change-related. Those kinds of incidents will become more common and more severe; it is not going to take very many of them in quick succession, to have a major impact on food supply. And that means world food supply, given how interconnected modern economies are. I don't think it will take many weeks of starvation to see societal breakdown -- particularly when you consider the cascading effects of both climate change, and societal breakdown. Starvation in one area affects the people who would usually be doing all the infrastructure jobs, too. Won't be long before the lights start going out, the petrol pumps stop being filled, etc.

We do need to find solutions, but mostly they need to involve voluntarily reducing the standard of living in richer countries, particularly when it comes to fossil fuel use, which we need to get to as close to zero as we can, as soon as possible. That means giving up on air travel, and probably on private car ownership for most, too.

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Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





The real problem with Nuclear is the waste. A lot of it has substantial half-lifes ranging from 100,000's to millions of years. That means the material will be radioactive for a very long time.

The question is how do we protect people not only now but in the future. There are languages that are a mere 5000 years old that we don't understand. How do you design warnings not only for now but in 20,000 years when there is a possibility no one would understand our language/customs/symbols and so forth. For these people the markings would be akin to superstitions surrounding Egyptian Mummies and Tombs.

"Because while the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth. And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission. How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. " - V

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UK

 Whirlwind wrote:
The real problem with Nuclear is the waste. A lot of it has substantial half-lifes ranging from 100,000's to millions of years. That means the material will be radioactive for a very long time.

The question is how do we protect people not only now but in the future. There are languages that are a mere 5000 years old that we don't understand. How do you design warnings not only for now but in 20,000 years when there is a possibility no one would understand our language/customs/symbols and so forth. For these people the markings would be akin to superstitions surrounding Egyptian Mummies and Tombs.


There's really two sides to this

1) The evolution of language. All languages evolve with use (even latin today evolves and changes) so any nations that lasts a long long time will have evolution of its language over time. Really old English is still English, but it is quite different to the English of today. Furthermore there are key events such as when we were invaded by the Normans, which caused bigger shifts in language structure. So if societies that store nuclear material remain stable enough to be functional then the old warning signs will just get updated every so often. Though it might also be some remain in use, they would just shift from common parlance into work specific phrases.

2) The fall of nations. This is the big risk really, when one nation falls. A massive collapse can trigger a situation where storage facilities could be lost, information on them lost and, if enough time went by, even understanding of them would dwindle. Of course this gets a bit trickier to envision because we'd require a world wide collapse in order to get to a point where unclear material was unintelligible. A massive collapse alongside a solar flare that wipes out digital data could probably do it; provided there was no preparation beforehand.



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 Overread wrote:
 Whirlwind wrote:
The real problem with Nuclear is the waste. A lot of it has substantial half-lifes ranging from 100,000's to millions of years. That means the material will be radioactive for a very long time.

The question is how do we protect people not only now but in the future. There are languages that are a mere 5000 years old that we don't understand. How do you design warnings not only for now but in 20,000 years when there is a possibility no one would understand our language/customs/symbols and so forth. For these people the markings would be akin to superstitions surrounding Egyptian Mummies and Tombs.


There's really two sides to this

1) The evolution of language. All languages evolve with use (even latin today evolves and changes) so any nations that lasts a long long time will have evolution of its language over time. Really old English is still English, but it is quite different to the English of today. Furthermore there are key events such as when we were invaded by the Normans, which caused bigger shifts in language structure. So if societies that store nuclear material remain stable enough to be functional then the old warning signs will just get updated every so often. Though it might also be some remain in use, they would just shift from common parlance into work specific phrases.

2) The fall of nations. This is the big risk really, when one nation falls. A massive collapse can trigger a situation where storage facilities could be lost, information on them lost and, if enough time went by, even understanding of them would dwindle. Of course this gets a bit trickier to envision because we'd require a world wide collapse in order to get to a point where unclear material was unintelligible. A massive collapse alongside a solar flare that wipes out digital data could probably do it; provided there was no preparation beforehand.




More important to me is the economic case. You're saddling thousands of generations with the results of a few decades of localised energy generation.

If you try to annualise that the cost of nuclear energy is basically infinite.

   
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Did you know coal ash waste is also radioactive? When coal gets burned (such as in power plants), the trace amounts of radioactive material, as well as other nasty things like mercury and arsenic, concentrates into fly ash and bottom ash. Where as Nuclear Waste is highly regulated and talked about as the last few post has shown, coal ash is generally dumped into large basins open to the air near to the coal plant itself. Which is always near a body of water, and it's a matter of when than if there's going to be a spill.

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 Luke_Prowler wrote:
Did you know coal ash waste is also radioactive? When coal gets burned (such as in power plants), the trace amounts of radioactive material, as well as other nasty things like mercury and arsenic, concentrates into fly ash and bottom ash. Where as Nuclear Waste is highly regulated and talked about as the last few post has shown, coal ash is generally dumped into large basins open to the air near to the coal plant itself. Which is always near a body of water, and it's a matter of when than if there's going to be a spill.


I'm not sure anyone is suggesting we return to coal. There are plenty of existing clean energy sources already. A combination of wind, solar and geothermal energy if located and stored correctly could provide sufficient of our energy needs. It needs an integrated grid but if you took Europe as an example you could have solar in the southern EU countries, wind in the northern EU countries and geothermal where there is significant residual heat (Scotland, Iceland, parts of France, Italy and so forth). Combined this with a huge increase in local energy generation on houses (i.e. solar panels on every roof) then you shouldn't need coal or nuclear. Of course this side of the pond it would require some form of union of European countries with equivalent networks and rules...ahem...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/15 21:05:53


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Geothermal is probably the most sustainable and consistent, but its limited by its location.

Wind and solar are also very limited and unreliable. no wind or too much wind and bad things happen. also not good if the sun aint shining for solar. (also iirc solar is most efficient in cold climates not super hot sunny ones.)

Dams also have massive ecological impact so probably shouldn't pull a China.

It would be nice to put solar on literally every roof top possible. though what kinda carbon foot print does it generate to make those panels in that sort of quantity.

recently i saw a youtube vid on the possibility to power the entire US with solar. it actually would be possible to fit it in death valley but would also cost an absolutely insane amount (though i think it was almost reached through the us highway program(?))

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/15 21:20:06


 Unit1126PLL wrote:
 Scott-S6 wrote:
And yet another thread is hijacked for Unit to ask for the same advice, receive the same answers and make the same excuses.

Oh my god I'm becoming martel.
Send help!

 
   
 
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