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You know, I would love to see something like Endless Spells.

The concern would be matched play points, and does whatever you summoned draw from that pool. For that matter, what happens to the cost of psykers.

Theoretically, I'm on board.

 techsoldaten wrote:
You know, I would love to see something like Endless Spells.

The concern would be matched play points, and does whatever you summoned draw from that pool. For that matter, what happens to the cost of psykers.

Theoretically, I'm on board.

In AoS endless spells do come out of your points total so I would assume it would be the same for 40k. On that note since they would be optional and already cost points I would assume psykers would remain the same.

 John Prins wrote:
Explain to me how Slaughterpriests and Aether-Navigators are NOT wizard equivalents. They both can unbind spells and dispel spells, and can produce effects a lot like spells.

They're wizard substitutes.

By that standard, necron 5th edition crypteks and their unstable relics utilizing similar mechanic to psykers are psykers too. Not only this dispels your original argument, calling necrons psykers is just silly, as much as calling Khornate characters wizards.

As for Slaughterpriests they can attempt to unbind one spell as if they were a wizard. Not only this says right there they are not wizards (if their inability to cast anything wasn't a hint already), you're pretty much saying Ultramarine captain with sanctic halo is a psyker too because he can attempt to deny a power as if he was one, eh?

 Stormonu wrote:
Anyways, the only race I could imagine having endless spells/psychic powers anyways would be Orks - something like the ol’ Foot of Mork (or was it Gork?), and maybe Chaos. Which would give GK players even more things to bitch about.

You're aware GK were the 40K army with multiple ES equivalents back in the day? If anything, they should get them first, having multiple powers that would work perfectly well with this mechanic - votex, sanctuary, and warp quake can be made into ES pretty much on the spot...

If they become a way for GW to sell us more stuff to keep our armies current they will happen.

Daemon endless spells belong (cuz they have models). Idk if we need to do it for the rest of the armies though.

 Kanluwen wrote:
[


First: Endless Spells aren't "your spells". They're specifically purchased so anyone in the army that can cast, will be able to do so. The limitation is that only one instance of a specific Endless Spell can be up at a time. I can't huck around three Purple Suns, Everblaze Comets, whatever. I cast it, it goes off--and then each successive turn you can attempt to remove it. If you do? Then I can attempt to recast it.
Second: There's two different Endless Spell "sets" that are generic. One is Malign Sorcery(these are all Realm Specific, available to anyone who chooses to buy the set) and the other is the Forbidden Power bit going up for preorder today. FP is nothing but Realm of Death spells, but they can be used elsewhere--the generic set have "Empowered by <Realm Name Here>" that bolster the effects in those specific Realms.
Third: You have army specific ones. That would be where GK players would get Heed or Gate, assuming it's in your actual GK specific Lore. And I doubt either of those Powers would get the Endless treatment, it would be new ones entirely.

Can you use them without buying the models and the book for them? Because if not, then it is a huge downside for me. It practicaly force a player to buy more models, for something they could do before without buying them. And don't tell me GW would for sure not do something. They can and did what ever they wanted in this edition.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
If they become a way for GW to sell us more stuff to keep our armies current they will happen.

My 2k army has shrank almost every year and edition as gw finds more ways to squeeze money out of people who have all the game peices they need. So yes, i think GW sees this as a chance to sell more models to people who don't need them.

The good thing about Endless spells is that they cost points unline AoS's faction scenery so if you don't want to use or buy them you don't feel punished.

 lolman1c wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
If they become a way for GW to sell us more stuff to keep our armies current they will happen.

My 2k army has shrank almost every year and edition as gw finds more ways to squeeze money out of people who have all the game peices they need. So yes, i think GW sees this as a chance to sell more models to people who don't need them.

Actually many AoS armies have increased in points in general. Slaanesh has really jumped up a lot in points across the board for most of their models. Chariots went from 80 to 120 and most heralds gained a good 50 or so points. Granted the heralds also gained being wizards; but it still means they don't have any heroes under 100 points.

That said I think GW's plan is to make AoS model counts smaller and then steadily increase them over time as it establishes itself better in the market.

 KingGarland wrote:

ERJAK wrote:Endless spells don't make any sense in 40k. Psykers aren't wizards. Psykers are heavily distrusted already. A physical object that appeared as a result of a psychic power in 40k would be immediately shot to gak, along with whoever summoned it.

Well they are not physical objects they would be psychic manifestations so you wouldn't be able to shoot it anymore then an archer in AoS can shoot an endless spell. As for shooting those that summon them; first thats a very imperial view of things, I don't think the eldar would shoot a farseer that summoned something to attack there enemies. Second lets take a look at two imperial armies psychic powers: from imperial guard there is psychic maelstrom that summons a psychic storm to thrown enemies around, that could work as an endless psychic power. Also from the space marines there is fury of the ancients were the liberian summons a creature of psychic energy to attack the enemy, I could totally see the space wolves being able to summon a psychic wolf to attack.

John Prins wrote:In AoS, everyone has wizards or a substitute for wizards.

In 40k, many armies don't have psykers or anything really resembling them.

AoS is a lot more magical than 40k, so Endless Spells make more sense. In 40k, one mistake with psyker powers and somebody's head explodes. And Chaos has Endless Spells - it's called Daemonic Summoning.

This is the big issue. To be fair though right now of the six that do not have psykers only three; Tau, necrons and knights have no way to deal with psychic powers and for using endless psychic powers as a substitute I could see maybe Tau using advanced tech, necrons using c'tan crap, dark eldar using homunculus stuff and ad mech using dark age tech. If they did this I would think they might need to add a stratagem to deal with them usable by every army.

They absolutely are physical object in AoS. Whether the shooting would do any damage to them is irrelevant, they would still cause mass panic firing.

A space marine doing an endless spell near guard allies would be doing more damage to his own forces than the the enemy, regardless of what the endless spell was supposed to do.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Karol wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
[


First: Endless Spells aren't "your spells". They're specifically purchased so anyone in the army that can cast, will be able to do so. The limitation is that only one instance of a specific Endless Spell can be up at a time. I can't huck around three Purple Suns, Everblaze Comets, whatever. I cast it, it goes off--and then each successive turn you can attempt to remove it. If you do? Then I can attempt to recast it.
Second: There's two different Endless Spell "sets" that are generic. One is Malign Sorcery(these are all Realm Specific, available to anyone who chooses to buy the set) and the other is the Forbidden Power bit going up for preorder today. FP is nothing but Realm of Death spells, but they can be used elsewhere--the generic set have "Empowered by <Realm Name Here>" that bolster the effects in those specific Realms.
Third: You have army specific ones. That would be where GK players would get Heed or Gate, assuming it's in your actual GK specific Lore. And I doubt either of those Powers would get the Endless treatment, it would be new ones entirely.

Can you use them without buying the models and the book for them? Because if not, then it is a huge downside for me. It practicaly force a player to buy more models, for something they could do before without buying them. And don't tell me GW would for sure not do something. They can and did what ever they wanted in this edition.

Not only can you not use them without A model, most tournaments require the 100% official model because of how weird some of the shapes are.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Argive wrote:
So WFB has been 40kfied to make AOS. Now 40k is to be AOSified?

Tbfh I dont see the point in bringing the two games closer together rules wise on any level. I susepct both will end up merging into a generic dummed down versons of themselves to the lowest common denominator as more overlap happens. I like how demons were the only thing that was transferable between the two games and that made sense and was a novelty even if they had square bases..

So...they'll be games specifically designed for you, huh?

ERJAK wrote:

 KingGarland wrote:

ERJAK wrote:

So...they'll be games specifically designed for you, huh?

Aww bless.... someones not had their apple juice this morning.

Noooooo. 40k needs to be less like AoS not more.

Yes. I'd love to see Endless Spell sorta stuff running around in 40k.

Endless Spells were brought into AoS because the core game was too bland/straightforward/easily solvable and it needed to add an extra layer of randomness to get people to stay interested. 40k doesn't have the problems that required their introduction because the factions are bigger (Stormcast have 38 non-unique datasheets, Space Marines have 86 non-unique/non-Chapter-specific datasheets without delving into Forge World) and because attack resolution is way more complicated, both of which mean there's a lot more decision-making involved in just playing the game.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Endless Spells were brought into AoS because the core game was too bland/straightforward/easily solvable and it needed to add an extra layer of randomness to get people to stay interested.

Not really. They were added because they wanted to have some of the 'remains in play' style of spells actually given a physical presence on the field. One of the complaints with regards to WHFB was the number of spells to keep track of as 'in play' or with little markers for stuff like vortices and the like.

Now those spells have a physical presence, and can be harmful to the caster if they get a double turn.

Karol wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
[


First: Endless Spells aren't "your spells". They're specifically purchased so anyone in the army that can cast, will be able to do so. The limitation is that only one instance of a specific Endless Spell can be up at a time. I can't huck around three Purple Suns, Everblaze Comets, whatever. I cast it, it goes off--and then each successive turn you can attempt to remove it. If you do? Then I can attempt to recast it.
Second: There's two different Endless Spell "sets" that are generic. One is Malign Sorcery(these are all Realm Specific, available to anyone who chooses to buy the set) and the other is the Forbidden Power bit going up for preorder today. FP is nothing but Realm of Death spells, but they can be used elsewhere--the generic set have "Empowered by <Realm Name Here>" that bolster the effects in those specific Realms.
Third: You have army specific ones. That would be where GK players would get Heed or Gate, assuming it's in your actual GK specific Lore. And I doubt either of those Powers would get the Endless treatment, it would be new ones entirely.

Can you use them without buying the models and the book for them? Because if not, then it is a huge downside for me. It practicaly force a player to buy more models, for something they could do before without buying them. And don't tell me GW would for sure not do something. They can and did what ever they wanted in this edition.

Karol moaning about having to buy something for his army. Change the bloody record please.

Are you going to moan if that mythical GK codex update appears? Because you'll have to buy that. That's how this hobby works unfortunately if you want to stay current.

There is a difference between geting a new product or a fixed product, and high chance that GW does something stupid and take again two or three best GK things and make people pay more money to use something they used before. Worse they could say they are giving GK new stuff, because of new models.

Actually many AoS armies have increased in points in general. Slaanesh has really jumped up a lot in points across the board for most of their models. Chariots went from 80 to 120 and most heralds gained a good 50 or so points. Granted the heralds also gained being wizards; but it still means they don't have any heroes under 100 points.

Isn't most AoS all about summoning though, and not the w40k kind where it is more like deep strike, but for free or for doing stuff you would be doing anyway with your army?

Without reading the entire thread my thoughts are this:

Pros:
+Spells staying in play and being twisted back and forth by opposing psykers, etc. is a cool concept...

Cons:
-Absolutely will not buy numerous boxes of miniatures to represent spells. That smacks of obnoxious money-grabbing nonsense.

For me the con overrides the cool factor and thus it's a huge no for me. No interest - AT ALL, in dragging around models for my spells and having more stuff to buy/build/paint. If they did become a big rules thing or a part of 9th or 8.5, etc...I'd simply print out some templates and use those.

Karol wrote:There is a difference between geting a new product or a fixed product, and high chance that GW does something stupid and take again two or three best GK things and make people pay more money to use something they used before. Worse they could say they are giving GK new stuff, because of new models.

Actually many AoS armies have increased in points in general. Slaanesh has really jumped up a lot in points across the board for most of their models. Chariots went from 80 to 120 and most heralds gained a good 50 or so points. Granted the heralds also gained being wizards; but it still means they don't have any heroes under 100 points.

Isn't most AoS all about summoning though, and not the w40k kind where it is more like deep strike, but for free or for doing stuff you would be doing anyway with your army?

There are many AoS armies that do not (and likely never will have) summoning as a mechanic. You are right that Slaanesh likely has summoning baked into their unit cost at some level; however even with summoning the armies are just not "as big" as they once were. This isn't a negative nor a positive. I also think that over time the army size will increase as we see with most games on the market. The longer they are out the more the developer and gamers seek to put more of their models into matches. Players want to see their models table side not shelf side and the longer a game is out the more diverse factions become.

Elbows wrote:Without reading the entire thread my thoughts are this:

Pros:
+Spells staying in play and being twisted back and forth by opposing psykers, etc. is a cool concept...

Cons:
-Absolutely will not buy numerous boxes of miniatures to represent spells. That smacks of obnoxious money-grabbing nonsense.

For me the con overrides the cool factor and thus it's a huge no for me. No interest - AT ALL, in dragging around models for my spells and having more stuff to buy/build/paint. If they did become a big rules thing or a part of 9th or 8.5, etc...I'd simply print out some templates and use those.

Note that Endless Spells as they are in AoS are on top of regular spells. In fact they work differently and, for example can't have their range or power boosted by spell boosting abilities.
So its not like GW is taking something non-physical and changing it, instead they are putting something else in alongside. Plus the whole point of the cool factor is having physical models as spells on the tabletop. That's really the whole point of it and its far more interesting than having paperwork spells to keep track of jumping around between players and the like.
So yeah if the feature game there'd be an element of having to buy or convert spells to represent them on the tabletop. Which is basically no different to using templates in the past save that the Endless Spells look better than templates ever have.

Right now its not even a huge investment, Malign Sorcery gives you the biggest chunk of them; with many factions getting 3 or 4 in a specific boxed set; Forbidden Powers then adds a few more on top. Thing is with the Warscrolls online you can go to the GW site - read the spells full rules and decide if you want the spells in a box for your army. If you don't want them just don't buy the set.
Of course if you run multiple armies then the generic spells are even more useful as you can fit them into any force; or you can be creative and theme how you paint them to specific armies if you want too. Plus I'd wager there's broken sets on ebay to pick and choose one or two spells if you want (though it might suffer from lack of stock on some of the popular ones, but I've no idea as I've honestly not looked into it).



In the end we have to pay for models in our armies any way, GW is most certainly in the business of giving us excuses to buy more models. Just the same as Magic the Gathering is in the business of making players buy cards all the time - heck at least GW doesn't turn around and invalidate half your collection of models each year and force you to buy new ones. Heck the core of most armies is unchanged for years upon years. Space marines still have tac squads and rhinos

 godardc wrote:
What is endless spell ?

They are physical manifestations of spells in model form. They get moved around the board and present some effect in one way or another.

I'm fine with the concept, but it needs to be balanced really well.

Instead I'd probably prefer they just expanded the available lores so that marines have more to do with their psykers.

 Overread wrote:

Karol wrote:There is a difference between geting a new product or a fixed product, and high chance that GW does something stupid and take again two or three best GK things and make people pay more money to use something they used before. Worse they could say they are giving GK new stuff, because of new models.

Actually many AoS armies have increased in points in general. Slaanesh has really jumped up a lot in points across the board for most of their models. Chariots went from 80 to 120 and most heralds gained a good 50 or so points. Granted the heralds also gained being wizards; but it still means they don't have any heroes under 100 points.

Isn't most AoS all about summoning though, and not the w40k kind where it is more like deep strike, but for free or for doing stuff you would be doing anyway with your army?

There are many AoS armies that do not (and likely never will have) summoning as a mechanic. You are right that Slaanesh likely has summoning baked into their unit cost at some level; however even with summoning the armies are just not "as big" as they once were. This isn't a negative nor a positive. I also think that over time the army size will increase as we see with most games on the market. The longer they are out the more the developer and gamers seek to put more of their models into matches. Players want to see their models table side not shelf side and the longer a game is out the more diverse factions become.

Elbows wrote:Without reading the entire thread my thoughts are this:

Pros:
+Spells staying in play and being twisted back and forth by opposing psykers, etc. is a cool concept...

Cons:
-Absolutely will not buy numerous boxes of miniatures to represent spells. That smacks of obnoxious money-grabbing nonsense.

For me the con overrides the cool factor and thus it's a huge no for me. No interest - AT ALL, in dragging around models for my spells and having more stuff to buy/build/paint. If they did become a big rules thing or a part of 9th or 8.5, etc...I'd simply print out some templates and use those.

Note that Endless Spells as they are in AoS are on top of regular spells. In fact they work differently and, for example can't have their range or power boosted by spell boosting abilities.
So its not like GW is taking something non-physical and changing it, instead they are putting something else in alongside. Plus the whole point of the cool factor is having physical models as spells on the tabletop. That's really the whole point of it and its far more interesting than having paperwork spells to keep track of jumping around between players and the like.
So yeah if the feature game there'd be an element of having to buy or convert spells to represent them on the tabletop. Which is basically no different to using templates in the past save that the Endless Spells look better than templates ever have.

Right now its not even a huge investment, Malign Sorcery gives you the biggest chunk of them; with many factions getting 3 or 4 in a specific boxed set; Forbidden Powers then adds a few more on top. Thing is with the Warscrolls online you can go to the GW site - read the spells full rules and decide if you want the spells in a box for your army. If you don't want them just don't buy the set.
Of course if you run multiple armies then the generic spells are even more useful as you can fit them into any force; or you can be creative and theme how you paint them to specific armies if you want too. Plus I'd wager there's broken sets on ebay to pick and choose one or two spells if you want (though it might suffer from lack of stock on some of the popular ones, but I've no idea as I've honestly not looked into it).



In the end we have to pay for models in our armies any way, GW is most certainly in the business of giving us excuses to buy more models. Just the same as Magic the Gathering is in the business of making players buy cards all the time - heck at least GW doesn't turn around and invalidate half your collection of models each year and force you to buy new ones. Heck the core of most armies is unchanged for years upon years. Space marines still have tac squads and rhinos

Ok but isin't all that basically templates? But really fancy templates that you have to paint and model on top all the stuff you want to play with? Granted I know diddly squat about how AOS works but if its not a unit that goes on the table I personally would not want to have to paint it. So to me it sounds like templates.

Now, I liked templates and scatter. And yeah people will berate me because it added time to the game and people were arguing etc. and guard players had to spend hours playing and it was boring but hey, I like what I like..(and guard are still boring to play against unless theres a horde of ruff riders involved ).

IMO Not needed. This game has enough mechanics, psychic phase is one of the working ones. I think some of the other ones just need tightening.

Its gonna happen, not a shred of doubt in my mind. I welcome it though, one of the only things i'm jealous about of AOS

 Argive wrote:


Ok but isin't all that basically templates? But really fancy templates that you have to paint and model on top all the stuff you want to play with? Granted I know diddly squat about how AOS works but if its not a unit that goes on the table I personally would not want to have to paint it. So to me it sounds like templates.

Now, I liked templates and scatter. And yeah people will berate me because it added time to the game and people were arguing etc. and guard players had to spend hours playing and it was boring but hey, I like what I like..(and guard are still boring to play against unless theres a horde of ruff riders involved ).

Basically yes it is a template but under that logic all models on the tabletop are templates and you might as well just use bases with the names of models written on them. You don't have to paint and model them if you don't want to as they would be an optional thing but like any unit (and yes it would be a unit that goes on the table its just used differently) if you want to use it needs to be represented on the table. I personally don't mind proxy models so if someone used a template as an endless spell I would not mid as long as the sizes were similair.

I was just hovering over the No option when I remembered GK and the old style Vortex.

In limited circumstances I would like the mechanic in 40K. You cannot bring the full mechanic across - because the turn order does not change as it does in AOS - but enough of the mechanic to make it workable perhaps.

However I'd put it like 100th on my wish-list. I see no real need for it but as a little niche thing I would not mind.

 KingGarland wrote:


Basically yes it is a template but under that logic all models on the tabletop are templates and you might as well just use bases with the names of models written on them. You don't have to paint and model them if you don't want to as they would be an optional thing but like any unit (and yes it would be a unit that goes on the table its just used differently) if you want to use it needs to be represented on the table. I personally don't mind proxy models so if someone used a template as an endless spell I would not mid as long as the sizes were similair.

Only you can't do that, because if you only used named bases, it would be impossible to check the line of sight to them. And it is kind of a important, if your opponent sees one of your dude sticking out from behind a building or rhino and gets to kill the squad, or sees no one.

There are many AoS armies that do not (and likely never will have) summoning as a mechanic. You are right that Slaanesh likely has summoning baked into their unit cost at some level; however even with summoning the armies are just not "as big" as they once were. This isn't a negative nor a positive. I also think that over time the army size will increase as we see with most games on the market. The longer they are out the more the developer and gamers seek to put more of their models into matches. Players want to see their models table side not shelf side and the longer a game is out the more diverse factions become.

My knowladge of AoS is based on what I hear, at my store, so I maybe wrong here. But aren't the armies with summoning the ones that are " winning "right now? It doesn't matter much, if an army is there that has no rule or no access to some mechanic, if it is bottom tier.

In the end we have to pay for models in our armies any way, GW is most certainly in the business of giving us excuses to buy more models. Just the same as Magic the Gathering is in the business of making players buy cards all the time - heck at least GW doesn't turn around and invalidate half your collection of models each year and force you to buy new ones. Heck the core of most armies is unchanged for years upon years. Space marines still have tac squads and rhinos

And if those units suck, how does it help people to play? Plus as far as AoS goes didn't they nerf whole armies between editions. I remember a guy who was very vocal about his SCE getting nerfed, he was left with an army he could not use, with detachments that no longer worked, and all his models being over costed and worse then the new ones GW just put out.

Again I have nothing against stuff adding to the game. But the idea that for example to use a blessed ammo stratagam, I need to buy a box from GW, that has a model of a case of ammo, or a Gate to use the Gate spell sounds like a huge cash grab. Specialy as it doesn't mean that after buying those models, my army somehow gets better or is fixed.

For all the talk of a cash grab, in my experience endless spells in AoS are very much optional. They cost points and they really aren't that amazing anyway. They're just another army option as far as I am concerned. As someone already mentioned all the spells that wizards previously had available are still there and do not require models.

Some people have full collections and want something to add, this is quite a cynical forum and some folk seem to think that once you've got your 2000 point list going that is it, don't want to buy another model again. Which is fine but don't think that your experience is the only experience.

I have a 2500 point Blades of Khorne mortal army with every unit option available and finally have it all painted up. I was stoked when these came out with the new battletome. Maybe I'd have preferred another unit but these prayers and the scenery piece are really cool. I was happy to get them.

I think its just comes down to 40k allready being a very full game, and its a bit of a mess already.
So i would rather not see yet another element introduced until the company clean up the game and work out its sense of scale so much better.

Karol wrote:

 KingGarland wrote:


Basically yes it is a template but under that logic all models on the tabletop are templates and you might as well just use bases with the names of models written on them. You don't have to paint and model them if you don't want to as they would be an optional thing but like any unit (and yes it would be a unit that goes on the table its just used differently) if you want to use it needs to be represented on the table. I personally don't mind proxy models so if someone used a template as an endless spell I would not mid as long as the sizes were similair.

Only you can't do that, because if you only used named bases, it would be impossible to check the line of sight to them. And it is kind of a important, if your opponent sees one of your dude sticking out from behind a building or rhino and gets to kill the squad, or sees no one.

Then use a cardboard cutout of the model. Basically yes you can play GW games on the cheap if you want. You can play with cardboard models standing on cardboard bases and make it all at home if you want. The vast majority of players though, prefer to pay money for the models to play with. Endless Spells are no different than GW adding a new unit type to the game much like they added dedicated flying units into 40K. The moment they did that they created a tactical option and a new line of models for most armies. If players wanted to take that new option they had to pay for the new models to do it (at least in the most commonly accepted way to play for most).

My knowladge of AoS is based on what I hear, at my store, so I maybe wrong here. But aren't the armies with summoning the ones that are " winning "right now? It doesn't matter much, if an army is there that has no rule or no access to some mechanic, if it is bottom tier.

Yes and no - Daughters of Khaine have no summoning and are doing really well and have done since release. Some armies have too much summoning potential whilst others have some powerful combos and setups. AoS is hampered a bit because not every Tome is out yet so its harder to do a sweeping balance change when there is still stuff not with its final rules set nor even its final army composition.

And if those units suck, how does it help people to play? Plus as far as AoS goes didn't they nerf whole armies between editions. I remember a guy who was very vocal about his SCE getting nerfed, he was left with an army he could not use, with detachments that no longer worked, and all his models being over costed and worse then the new ones GW just put out.

Again I have nothing against stuff adding to the game. But the idea that for example to use a blessed ammo stratagam, I need to buy a box from GW, that has a model of a case of ammo, or a Gate to use the Gate spell sounds like a huge cash grab. Specialy as it doesn't mean that after buying those models, my army somehow gets better or is fixed.

Stormcast are basically a bit like marines in that they got a super fast super big release pattern which did somewhat end up tripping over it self with unit variety; which is basically the exception as in AoS many armies are actually on the opposite side and have very small unit variety to pick from. In addition you're mixing up balance with game features and releases. Sure new releases will not typically "fix" armies; but we don't really look to that for that in general. That's for the Codex/Battletome to fix alongside annual updates and the FAQ etc... Endless Spells are not a magical fixing stick in Aos, they are simply a game feature.
As for army nerfing most have done well with their 2.0 Battletomes. AoS has had a messy lifespan up until 2.0 because of big changes in the product focus and in the management at GW; don't forget at launch AoS was basically a massive boutique line of models with no actual rules for the "proper game" and only a set of very jovial rules (get +1 attacks if you have a beard when playing dwarves kind of rules). GW was never going to give matched play rules at that stage, they weren't even likely to support armies in the same way as they normally do.
1.0 was a tester system and now 2.0 is a proper rules system. So yeah some armies with no Battletome or only a 1.0 are suffering at present; GW is using this next year and a bit to rectify that issue; part of the wait was likely simply because last year was 40K getting that focus from GW - with the core difference that 40K got rolled out better through their indexes and because GW didn't throw the rules out between editions.

Apple fox wrote:I think its just comes down to 40k allready being a very full game, and its a bit of a mess already.
So i would rather not see yet another element introduced until the company clean up the game and work out its sense of scale so much better.

For me I think this is important, 40K already has a lot of visual options on the table and GW has already started putting terrain features in as well. Whilst 40K has done physical ability models in the past I don't see it as something they need to create as a functional element to every army of the game.

I don't like paying money for and spend time painting spell effects...