Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Martel732 wrote:

I'm well aware.

Fair enough so, just seems a bit strange to me that someone would consciously value a relatively small monetary investment over their time and enjoyment across the better part of a decade

 nurgle5 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

I'm well aware.

Fair enough so, just seems a bit strange to me that someone would consciously value a relatively small monetary investment over their time and enjoyment across the better part of a decade

I think some people get pleasure out of hating and bashing things forever. If he got a new army that he liked he wouldn't know what to do with himself lol

nurgle5 wrote:Those "self contained" narratives had some pretty big implications for wider 40k setting. A lot of people were quite upset at things like the original version of the Bloodtide incident or Blood Angels teaming up with Necrons, back when the latter were still mindless robots, because they fundamentally undermined a collective understanding of who those factions are and how they operate. Is it more disruptive to the narrative to widen the front of a conflict or to change the character of some of the main participants?

I actually have a small shred of sympathy for Matt Ward over that, because if I remember the line(s) were something along the lines of: a major Tyranid attack happened - they both turned on the Tyranids as the greater threat (for survival reasons and with no mention of any alliance, or indeed any kind of coordinated campaign) - at the end they were simply too exhausted and depleted to actually continue fighting each other. It was less a "bro, thanks for the help" and more of a "if we back away slowly, maybe they will too". Nothing about the battle really implies an alliance of any kind and it's implicit that the incident was peculiar to that situation, yet people make it out like the BA and Necrons signed some kind of lasting treaty of friendship and solidarity.

Part of the problem with the whole Great Rift is that there's no good explanation that I can see as to why Chaos hasn't completely swamped the galaxy already. Abaddon is still being written as slowly building his campaign around securing certain strongholds and protecting his lines of communication like some medieval crusade, despite the fact that he has virtually unfettered access to a Chaos superhighway that bisects most of the known empire of man. The Great Rift should have been a cataclysmic event that spelled the beginning of the end for the Imperium, yet right now it's being treated as little more than a logistical inconvenience.

The warp giveth, the warp taketh away.

bouncingboredom wrote:


Part of the problem with the whole Great Rift is that there's no good explanation that I can see as to why Chaos hasn't completely swamped the galaxy already. Abaddon is still being written as slowly building his campaign around securing certain strongholds and protecting his lines of communication like some medieval crusade, despite the fact that he has virtually unfettered access to a Chaos superhighway that bisects most of the known empire of man. The Great Rift should have been a cataclysmic event that spelled the beginning of the end for the Imperium, yet right now it's being treated as little more than a logistical inconvenience.

I am not up to speed with the new lore beyond the BRB, box set stuff and hearsay. However, the Cicatrix Maledictum has created a huge front that Chaos can can strike from. Which has its pros and cons. Perhaps the biggest cons is that even among the Black Legion there are varying degrees of fealty given to Abbadon usually measured in the distance in which the Warmaster can punish said warband if they don't continue actively participating in the Black Crusade. The Word Bearers were pretty slow in the Emporer's Great Crusade and they probably had a far better work ethic than any given Black Legion warband not to mention allied CSM warbands. The command and control has to be almost non existent at this point anywhere abbadon or his most loyal followers aren't.

Another issue is the Imperium of Man is a really big place and even Chaos doesn't have the kind of numbers (and even less coordination) to make much of a dent in it quickly. Heck, not even all the forces aligned against the IoM can make a dent very quickly given the sheer size of it. There is a good chance that the galaxy map we see is merely the death rattle of entire systems that have fallen to foes of man but the Imperium doesn't know it yet.

Finally, if the Cicatrix Maledictum works anything like the Eye of Terror, communication, travel, sanctuary or anything is up to the will of the Dark Gods even for someone as favored as Abbadon, Chaos Space Marines don't get a free pass to move through it even if they did prepare a skull pyramid blood fountain just like Khorne likes it. They just have a better chance of moving through it. Chaos is chaos. As for Chaos as a whole all of this is still an amusing distraction or side game to the Great Game constantly played. The four gods probably don't really care what happens all that much, and it is in there best interest to keep the IoM on the brink for as long possible to feed them.

Ishagu wrote:...new models, all of which are better and more realistic than things in the past.

Now this I take issue with. Aggressors, Suppressors and Repulsors are not better than anything that existed in the past. They're terrible models.

Martel732 wrote:
The warp giveth, the warp taketh away.

Martel's not wrong here. If Chaos was united 100% behind Abaddon and wanted to drive for Terra.. they could. it'd be hard to stop them. Problem is.. they're not united. We've seen this with Khrone's attack on Terra (a rushed affair that was doomed to failure from the start) with the Death Guard and Nurgle deciding they want to build a "greater empire of nurgle" on the bones of Macragge. The 1k sons likewise building their own empire, etc. basicly the forces of chaos, now unleashed are off doing their own thing.

 Ginjitzu wrote:

Ishagu wrote:...new models, all of which are better and more realistic than things in the past.

Now this I take issue with. Aggressors, Suppressors and Repulsors are not better than anything that existed in the past. They're terrible models.

The suppressors are a bit wonky lol, I agree.
Aggressors and the Repulsor are great model, the Repulsor being the best of the Astartes tanks with the exception of the Sicarans.

Yeah, I'll take the classic Predator over the Repulsar any day. Way to many guns (and non marine weapons to boot) and GW just having hover tech being common again for the IOM is annoying and cheapens the setting.

HoundsofDemos wrote:
Yeah, I'll take the classic Predator over the Repulsar any day. Way to many guns (and non marine weapons to boot) and GW just having hover tech being common again for the IOM is annoying and cheapens the setting.

I don't think the Repulsor is the best vehicle in the space marine range either (it's okay imho, the grav stuff looks a bit like a snow-sled),but it's still far from being the worst!

 nurgle5 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

I'm well aware.

Fair enough so, just seems a bit strange to me that someone would consciously value a relatively small monetary investment over their time and enjoyment across the better part of a decade

Martel is the biggest masochist on the forums, and they've been banging this drum for literally years without a break. Don't engage, you will not be the one to make them see reason. Just nod, smile and change the subject.

Chaos doesn't even need to be united. Just look at the size of the rift. The Imperium might be vast but it doesn't have anywhere near enough guardsmen, marines or ships to be able to adequately cover that much frontage. Even just random chaos spillage should be making solid progress.

bouncingboredom wrote:


Part of the problem with the whole Great Rift is that there's no good explanation that I can see as to why Chaos hasn't completely swamped the galaxy already. Abaddon is still being written as slowly building his campaign around securing certain strongholds and protecting his lines of communication like some medieval crusade, despite the fact that he has virtually unfettered access to a Chaos superhighway that bisects most of the known empire of man. The Great Rift should have been a cataclysmic event that spelled the beginning of the end for the Imperium, yet right now it's being treated as little more than a logistical inconvenience.

But... That's exactly what happens? It is implied that half of the Imperium is in ruins with Daemons running Amok everywhere. It's not like before where you were quite safe if you lived far away from the Eye or the Maelstrom, now not just Orks are everywhere, but Chaos, too. Even incursions and Chaos cults happen more often because people may turn to Chaos just from looking up in the sky (see Vigilus).

It comes down to the IOM being better run than it has in centuries via Bobby G vs Abby having a huge chunk of his forces splinter off as chaos is going to chaos. It was a lot easier to marshal a united front when they were all pent up in the Eye, now that so much is in reach to raid and reap, why should I take orders from anyone but myself.

It reminds me a bit of the western roman empire near the end. It had to much territory to guard and had to rely more and more on smaller and smaller units to guard it's borders backed up by newer barbarian mercenaries who ultimately proved untrustworthy.

Bobby G is literally the only thing holding things together by sheer force of will.

I should also note that things in Imperium Nihlius are BAD. we've not gotten many looks at it, but the looks we've gotten seem kinda grimdark. I suggest people read "The Emperor's Spears" it really paints a bleak outlook for what's going on in Imperium Nihlus. the Long story short is chaos warbands are delving out little pocket empires everywhere and the Imperial loyalist forces are slowly losing more and more. the book outright says, Imperium Nihlus is LOST. there's gonna be little pocket enclaves sure, but the IoM is NEVER reclaiming that territory.. unless by some mircle, they can close the rift (which won't ever happen no more then a perminant peace treaty between humanity and the Tau will happen. or Abaddon taking terra or any of the other things that will end the wars)

BrianDavion wrote:
I should also note that things in Imperium Nihlius are BAD. we've not gotten many looks at it, but the looks we've gotten seem kinda grimdark. I suggest people read "The Emperor's Spears" it really paints a bleak outlook for what's going on in Imperium Nihlus. the Long story short is chaos warbands are delving out little pocket empires everywhere and the Imperial loyalist forces are slowly losing more and more. the book outright says, Imperium Nihlus is LOST. there's gonna be little pocket enclaves sure, but the IoM is NEVER reclaiming that territory.. unless by some mircle, they can close the rift (which won't ever happen no more then a perminant peace treaty between humanity and the Tau will happen. or Abaddon taking terra or any of the other things that will end the wars)

Perfect for all those Imperial vs Imperial matches. Different factions fighting over resources or because they genuinely think they should be the ones in charge on behalf of the Imperium for “the duration of the emergency”. Neither side even has to be truly Chaos corrupted. Lots of individual planets, subsectors, or sectors becoming de facto pocket empires while theoretically waiting for contact and rescue by the wider Imperium, which never comes.