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 H.B.M.C. wrote:
And when you're a Savannah Master, speed is about all you've got.

Well, that and a medium laser, which for the weight is a gigantic weapon :p

That medium laser has three times the range, 150% more damage, and 66% of the weight of a machine gun with a ton of ammo. It's a tad... ridiculous?

Nurglitch wrote:
That medium laser has three times the range, 150% more damage, and 66% of the weight of a machine gun with a ton of ammo. It's a tad... ridiculous?

except that to mount a medium laser on a vehicle you also, normally need to mount the proper amount of heat sinks (and tanks IIRC can't take DHS) the Savannaha master uses a fusion engine but in 3025 that was actually pretty rare on tanks. so a medium laser on MOST tanks would take 4 tons.

Also machine guns are better against infantry, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better

BrianDavion wrote:

Nurglitch wrote:
That medium laser has three times the range, 150% more damage, and 66% of the weight of a machine gun with a ton of ammo. It's a tad... ridiculous?

except that to mount a medium laser on a vehicle you also, normally need to mount the proper amount of heat sinks (and tanks IIRC can't take DHS) the Savannaha master uses a fusion engine but in 3025 that was actually pretty rare on tanks. so a medium laser on MOST tanks would take 4 tons.

Also machine guns are better against infantry, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better

Well, better so long as you're within 90m of those infantry, which isn't a great place for vehicles or 'mechs to be in relation to infantry.

Nurglitch wrote:
That medium laser has three times the range, 150% more damage, and 66% of the weight of a machine gun with a ton of ammo. It's a tad... ridiculous?

My brother and a friend, who played Battletech religiously often told me that the medium laser was the best weapon in the entire game.

Personally, I prefer the PPC, despite the minimum range.

 Stormonu wrote:

Nurglitch wrote:
That medium laser has three times the range, 150% more damage, and 66% of the weight of a machine gun with a ton of ammo. It's a tad... ridiculous?

My brother and a friend, who played Battletech religiously often told me that the medium laser was the best weapon in the entire game.

Personally, I prefer the PPC, despite the minimum range.

The cool thing about Centurion, the game, was that armour was arranged in blocks (like they are on vehicles in CBT) and the weapons also had their damage arranged in shapes. It was like murder-tetris. I feel like there's plenty of opportunity to slightly modify CBT so bizarrely inefficient weapons can do interesting things beyond cross of that many armour/internal-structure bubbles (or do cluster damage like the missiles and LB-X autocannons).

For example:
[img=https://renegade-legion.fandom.com/wiki/Centurion_(Boardgame)?file=Centurion_damage_template.jpg][/img]

Damage system was pretty neat, and somene actually made a mod to use it with Battletech. We played it, and boy, does change things up!

EDIT: Ah, here it is! Renegade Tech

https://www.ourbattletech.com/downloads/

Three new renders (Mongoose, Goshawk and Piranha)

Ah, the Piranha... the only mech that can actually run out of MG ammo ^^

Have you seen the Linebacker I in Recognition Guide Vol. 6? 20 machine guns (with two arrays of 6 machine guns each) and only a ton and a half of ammo.

 Ghaz wrote:
Have you seen the Linebacker I in Recognition Guide Vol. 6? 20 machine guns (with two arrays of 6 machine guns each) and only a ton and a half of ammo.

Nope, haven't really gotten into the recognition guides.

I like the look of the Goshawk.

Its growing on me.

I like how the Mongoose's legs don't look like the front end of a centaur.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
And when you're a Savannah Master, speed is about all you've got.

Well, I'd swear you also theoretically had an extremely destructive charge move, although I recall that depending on exactly which version of the charge rules you're using.

Bob Lorgar wrote:
Well, I'd swear you also theoretically had an extremely destructive charge move, although I recall that depending on exactly which version of the charge rules you're using.

That's actually what I'm referring to.

I think equal BV Atlas vs Savannah Masters is a win for the tiny little vehicles as enough of them going kamikaze will bring the big Assault 'Mech down in now time.

 Stormonu wrote:

Nurglitch wrote:
That medium laser has three times the range, 150% more damage, and 66% of the weight of a machine gun with a ton of ammo. It's a tad... ridiculous?

My brother and a friend, who played Battletech religiously often told me that the medium laser was the best weapon in the entire game.

Personally, I prefer the PPC, despite the minimum range.

you're brother's "right" in that the medium laser is on a tonnage to damage heat etc ratio the most efficant weapon. but that doesn't mean the medium laser is the only weapon you should have on a chassis (otherwise the Black Hawk'd be the best mech in the game)

proably one of the more optimized designs out there is the warlord, 85 tons twin heavy PPCs, and 6 medium lasers. and the heat sinks to use them

But the Black Hawk doesn't have medium lasers. It has Clan ER Medium Lasers, and they are an entirely different beast. The +2 heat per gun makes a big difference. They're also essentially pocket Large Lasers.

Closest thing I can think of with actual medium lasers is the Komodo.

Of course, that's also always with double heat sinks...

Because of course it is.

Honestly, its not DHS that kills any short ranged weapon that isn't a medium laser--its free engine heat sinks (though DHS don't help there either). MLs don't actually need sinks for most mechs until you've mounted three, and as they're often secondary weapons behind something hotter like a large laser or PPC, theres a decent chance you're packing more sinks for those anyhow. Three MLs kinda outperform an SRM-4 in both damage races and crit hunting unless you've got very hot dice for the tonnage if heat is handled, and those free sinks means it very often is. Really its what kills the AC5 and 10 as well--you kinda have to get up to heavies before you're likely to cram on more than one big gun like that, and even then it helps bias things towards energy guns.

The new turn-based Battletech seems to tweak that sort of thing too.

..and that is why the TDR 5SS is my jam. PPC for long range and 3 MLs for getting work done once you get closer.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
But the Black Hawk doesn't have medium lasers. It has Clan ER Medium Lasers, and they are an entirely different beast. The +2 heat per gun makes a big difference. They're also essentially pocket Large Lasers.

Closest thing I can think of with actual medium lasers is the Komodo.

I was refering to the Black hawk (KU) not the Nova. 6 medium lasers 4 MPLs (ok now THOSE are absolutely unoptimized) and 2 SLs.

I'm unsure what KU means, but as far as I know, the Black Hawk IS the Nova, as it is its IS name. And as it is the first it had, for many it's its name, period.

 Albertorius wrote:
I'm unsure what KU means, but as far as I know, the Black Hawk IS the Nova, as it is its IS name. And as it is the first it had, for many it's its name, period.

Presumably KU means Kurita.

But yes. The Black Hawk and the Nova are the IS and Clan names for the same mech.

the black Hawk KU is a 60 ton Inner Sphere attempt to replicate the blackhawk

Ah, I must admit that the "later" TROs are kind of a blur in my mind ^^

3058 is a "later" TRO?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
3058 is a "later" TRO?

I'd think for a lot of the fanbase, anything set between 3040 and 3150 are "later."

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
3058 is a "later" TRO?

Compared with 2750, 3025, 3026, 3050, 3055 and 3057? Pretty much so, yes.

Of course, compared with the current TRO, mini TRO and Recongnition Guide hemorraghe, not so much.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 infinite_array wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
3058 is a "later" TRO?

I'd think for a lot of the fanbase, anything set between 3040 and 3150 are "later."

I mean, even if that wasn't the case, by then we already had three different Clans era TROs.