Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Let's say there's a Rogue Trader for whom money is no thing and they're looking to build and maintain the most well-equipped private army they can - what is the best that that money could buy? Or perhaps an easier question to answer would be - what can money not buy in the Imperium?

Are vehicles that are traditionally only for the Space Marines and the Inquisition like Rhinos, Predators and Land Raiders possible to buy fresh off the AdMech line?

Pretty sure they won't get their hands on Space Marine tech and vehicles because that's almost akin to giving them godly weapons. However if you read the Necromunda stories the upper classes clearly have access to very powerful power armour suits.

The real issue is not just access but the nature of the technology. The way the Imperium is invention isn't encouraged, so even if the upper classes might have access to machinery and technology akin to that of a space marine they would never be able to "invent" or even alter their suits to be space marine suits. Doing so would likely be classed as Heretical and get the Inquisition coming down to take care of you.

That said a particularly enterprising and bold individual might be able to salvage machinery from battlegrounds; then repair it up for use.

I would be amazed if rhinos were out of reach. They are assigned to 2 separate forces and in the background are supposed to be pretty ubiquitous. Land raiders might be a bit different given that they are exclusive to Marines, but I can see a rogue trader being able to buy rhino based tanks and vehicles easily enough.

Maybe land speeders. They are small and apparently plentiful. However if you can get Valkyries easily enough maybe land speeders are unnecessary. I can see a rogue trader being jnterested in land speeder storm for a rapid reaction force, or to get in, get the loot and get lit with minimum fuss.

space marine tech is nothing special, it's the Astartes themselves that make it above and beyond.

even so, a rogue trader with fund and affluence will easily.be able to buy sororitas level armor, recruit some Goliath style hangers from a hive world pump them full of combat drugs to the point they might make pretty decent proxies.

they wouldn't hold a candle to the real thing, but then the table top and the lore are.warped abstractions of.each other.

 Overread wrote:
Pretty sure they won't get their hands on Space Marine tech and vehicles because that's almost akin to giving them godly weapons. However if you read the Necromunda stories the upper classes clearly have access to very powerful power armour suits.

The real issue is not just access but the nature of the technology. The way the Imperium is invention isn't encouraged, so even if the upper classes might have access to machinery and technology akin to that of a space marine they would never be able to "invent" or even alter their suits to be space marine suits. Doing so would likely be classed as Heretical and get the Inquisition coming down to take care of you.

That said a particularly enterprising and bold individual might be able to salvage machinery from battlegrounds; then repair it up for use.

Bolters and rhinos are common place though, and someone with the right conection might even be capable enough to get some "Upgrades" to these into the other rhino chassis variants.
He might even outright buy regiments?

Exotic equipment, frankly i belive that alot of that stuff get0s aquired VIA rogue traders, so not entirely random that they might even field Xeno tech or stuff normally the inquisition shoves around.

Also depends how ruthless and careless he is, maybee even includes Chaos relics etc.

The quantity however would maybee be a problem.

Space Marines are way more than a power armor and muscles. Their mind is maybe their best weapon. That's why even if thunder warriors or others may have been tougher and stronger, only the Marines from the space prevailed.

Anything, literally anything and everything. Rouge traders have a golden ticket to do anything and everything they want so long as they are expanding the empire. They are literally the conquistadors of 40k, even the Inquisition does not screw with them because they have a writ from the big E himself that is signed in his blood that says they can do what they want.

Astrarties that use xeno weapons? Sure
A psyker coven of eldar? Absolutely
A Ork freebooter body guard? Yep
Eldar concubine? A OK rouge traders

Many rouge traders have their own personal armies even, nothing is out of their reach, as long as they are expanding the imperium

Rhinos and Land Raiders are available outside of the supply chain of the Adeptus Astartes (the Inquisition can get Land Raiders, after all), so I think a sufficiently well-connected Rogue Trader could get his hands on some. How well-connected? Well, a number of Writs of Trade are signed personally by the Emperor; having a lineage older than the Imperium, and being in possession of a genuine holy relic means those Rogue Trader families have significant power and influence.

Also, it's common for Space Marine detachments to make up part of a Rogue Trader's military retinue anyway - they'll bring their own equipment and maintenance resources.

 Backspacehacker wrote:
Anything, literally anything and everything. Rouge traders have a golden ticket to do anything and everything they want so long as they are expanding the empire. They are literally the conquistadors of 40k, even the Inquisition does not screw with them because they have a writ from the big E himself that is signed in his blood that says they can do what they want.

Astrarties that use xeno weapons? Sure
A psyker coven of eldar? Absolutely
A Ork freebooter body guard? Yep
Eldar concubine? A OK rouge traders

Many rouge traders have their own personal armies even, nothing is out of their reach, as long as they are expanding the imperium

These rouge traders seem very potent ! What about the rogue traders however ?

And I'd say it really depends of the power and the Dynasty of the trader. Some aren't really powerful and known, while others are legends among star systems, and are obviously, more powerful and have more right by virtue of their power. As everyone in 40k in general.
The Imperium has always have had a part of hypocrisy.

As with so much else, "it depends" on politics and the situation.

While Rogue Traders may come from a family with a long lineage and have a document purportedly from a High Lord or maybe even the Emperor, a Rogue Trader that made too many enemies or failed too much might meet with an "accident" or still get arrested by the Inquisition or by some other peer of the Imperium. At that level, it is often debateable who has jurisdiction over whom, and realpolitik comes into play. A Rogue Trader could be disgraced and some other member of the family gets elevated as new head of the family and the Rogue Trader, so technically the family still have their Charter.

Then let's keep it strictly about money; let's say the Rogue Trader hasn't established any strong relations with the AdMech, Guard, Navy or Astartes, so no special favours from them. What can just a gakload of money get them?

Anything second-hand, really. /thread

Rhino/Chimera with no problem, those things are everywhere. Even space ship. Not a battleship, but maybe a destroyer or a frigate. Maybe without guns, but even those are not impossible to get. Find a smuggler, a scrap yard, some pirate den and you can equip even a space-ship, given the stuff is available.

 Sturmtruppen wrote:
Then let's keep it strictly about money; let's say the Rogue Trader hasn't established any strong relations with the AdMech, Guard, Navy or Astartes, so no special favours from them. What can just a gakload of money get them?

Theoretically anything, I guess. The problem - and it's a very big problem - is that while you undoubtedly need a lot of money to get your hands on certain pieces of tech (Land Raiders spring to mind - they're almost exclusively Space Marine vehicles so very, very rare outside of the Chapters) what you need more are connections. You need to know the right people to get access to these things. So while an incredibly wealthy Rogue Trader might stumble upon some piece of tech they want and be able to pay for it, the chances of finding what they want more or less at random is miniscule given the size of the galaxy. For things like Guard vehicles I imagine they're produced in such numbers they're not too difficult to find, same for the smaller Navy craft like bombers. Once you start getting more specialised it becomes more of a problem of finding, rather than affording, the thing you want.

Hmm, funnily enough, my 40k fanfic: Secret War delves into a Rogue Trader's private army *Hint* *hint* (I'm sorry I couldn't really resist lol) which is made up mostly of mercenaries who are ex-Imperial Guardsmen from numerous different regiments numbering in the thousands, and my main character's assassin sect. I think most Rogue Traders would have their force made up that way if they aren't active like my one was. If they are they would have mostly armsmen who have for generation upon generation lived and served inside the ship and/or been recruited or even forcefully recruited from worlds visited by the Rogue Trader. I also think they would likely have Combat Servitors or even have an army made almost entirely of servitors as they are cheap to make and don't require a wage and don't get affected by morale loss etc, especially for long voyages. How they're armed? Depends on their wealth and influence, but at the most basic they'd have mostly weapons for shipboard combat such as shotguns. The likes of lasguns and autoguns and basic weaponry, heavy stubbers and such and flak armour to arm their soldiers will be no problem even for a poorer Rogue Trader. They might have investments in weapon production on numerous hive worlds or other worlds which their great-great-great-great-great grandparents might've discovered and set colonies on, perhaps like a tithe received every few years from the planetary governor.

Maybe truly rich Rogue Traders could arm all of their men with hellguns and carapace armour, but they would have to be the top tier or with really top tier connections with the likes of the Adeptus Mechanicus.

Tanks too especially the likes of the Leman Russ and Chimera would be very well within the reach of many Rogue Traders, things like Rhinos, maybe not so much, but it depends again on their connections. But having your Rogue Trader isn't so far from the fluff. Even giving them a Land Raider would be within reality but it'd need some justification, such as an ancient gift from an Astartes chapter who the Rogue Trader's great-great-great etc helped in some amazing way or another. Or maybe they found it after coming across a world where the Space Marines fought and were wiped out or something?

Skies the limit! Just make sure you think of good ways to justify why and how a Rogue Trader has crazy stuff.

 Sturmtruppen wrote:
Then let's keep it strictly about money; let's say the Rogue Trader hasn't established any strong relations with the AdMech, Guard, Navy or Astartes, so no special favours from them. What can just a gakload of money get them?

... Not a whole lot TBH. you could get the basics to equip your own army but special stuff like power armor, etc. a lot of that is pretty limited production, often hand crafted and everyone wants it. To get it not only do you need to afford buying it, you also need the pull to get it. Sure you might be able to afford a custom suit of power armor, but so can lord so and so, and lord soandso has a long history of helping out the nearest forge world. Once you acheive a certain height, money is less relevant. and CONNECTIONS are whats valuable.

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
Rhinos and Land Raiders are available outside of the supply chain of the Adeptus Astartes (the Inquisition can get Land Raiders, after all), so I think a sufficiently well-connected Rogue Trader could get his hands on some. How well-connected? Well, a number of Writs of Trade are signed personally by the Emperor; having a lineage older than the Imperium, and being in possession of a genuine holy relic means those Rogue Trader families have significant power and influence.

Also, it's common for Space Marine detachments to make up part of a Rogue Trader's military retinue anyway - they'll bring their own equipment and maintenance resources.

It would depend on the Rogue Trader.
Rhinos, power armour, bolters, fine. The adepta sororitas get them by turning up at a forgeworld with a big bag of tithed ministorum cash and going "pretty please".

Land Raiders are forbidden to anyone but the adeptus astartes by imperial order since during the heresy. Hence you can only get one if you can demand an exemption - which requires you to be able to say "the Emperor Says" - Inquisitors and Custodes can, and an 'original' warrant of trade signed =][= would, but a 'generic' rogue trader? Not likely.

The Rogue Trader RPG says land speeders are used and are very popular for planetary explorers, though. Not always astartes pattern things, but similar.

 Sturmtruppen wrote:
Let's say there's a Rogue Trader for whom money is no thing and they're looking to build and maintain the most well-equipped private army they can - what is the best that that money could buy? Or perhaps an easier question to answer would be - what can money not buy in the Imperium?

Are vehicles that are traditionally only for the Space Marines and the Inquisition like Rhinos, Predators and Land Raiders possible to buy fresh off the AdMech line?

Rhinos and variants - no problem - how many do you want Sir!

Land Raiders are more of a technicaility, but not impossible.

Of course a really well connected Rogue Trader will have Astartes Links and be able to have Astartes to assist him or her.

Money is one thing - Connections are better. It has always been "Who you know"

 Mr Morden wrote:
Money is one thing - Connections are better. It has always been "Who you know"

Spot on. Money buys a lot, but respect and allies who you helped protect the IoM opens many other doors. A Rogue Trader is really not much different from an Inquisitor in how he has to handle his dealings. He can run in and loudly proclaim his rights, demanding compliance, and it will often work - but that nets him no respect. If he instead knows someone who knows someone who can testify that he was responsible for thwarting a xenos raid on a major world, well, his soft request will be seen much more favorably than any demands. Bringing a needed gift of whatever the world lacks is an automatic plus. Offering to ferry their produce in exchange for what you need, hey, someone has to ferry it and maybe your offer is good.

A Rogue Trader is a merchant, of sorts, but his deals shouldn't be about simple monetary gain for either side unless he thinks that is the easiest and most profitable way for him.

Want advanced wargear? Don't just PAY the AdMech, tell them they can send a qualified TechPriest along to observe and record the performance of the equipment you asked for! As a bonus, if you operate outside Imperial space, he'll also be the first to examine any possible STC leads! The AdMech will fight for the chance to join you.

Want Navy support? Share your star charts with them and offer to take a few frigates along on a journey (you want escorts for) to ascertain the accuracy of your charts. Easy macrocannon batteries.

Want Space Marine help? Tell them you'll be sailing off to fight the Chapter's favored enemy and they'll be happy to lend you an allied force in anticipation of glorious battle with the enemy they hate the most! Easy allied SM, and they'll even be grateful to you!

Hmm, I think one option a Rogue Trader has who has a lot of money but not many contacts are, as I mentioned, hiring mercenaries, while they won't be able to arm the mercs with much besides the most basic weapons but the more elite the mercs are and the more contacts they have, they might have a better arsenal than the Rogue Trader themselves (My Inquisitor Jelcine Enandra of my Secret War continuity secretly runs an 'independent' mercenary company which nets her a lot of wealth, and which is very well equipped due to this)

 Adrassil wrote:
Hmm, I think one option a Rogue Trader has who has a lot of money but not many contacts are, as I mentioned, hiring mercenaries, while they won't be able to arm the mercs with much besides the most basic weapons but the more elite the mercs are and the more contacts they have, they might have a better arsenal than the Rogue Trader themselves

That's a good angle on it, to be fair. Top shelf mercs in the IoM will have veteran troopers, heavy armaments and armor and also a good deal of contacts. A client with a lot of cash can easily hire them.

But still. A RT with a lot of cash didn't get it from nowhere. His dynasty already had a lot of it, or he sold off a lot of equipment to get that cash. It didn't come from nowhere so you should still know what exactly made up the fortune the rookie RT used to buy it all with. Is he deeply in debt? Did he license off trade routes to some colonies his dynasty rediscovered? Did he sell off holdings on some major world to local nobles to raise the cash for the one expedition that will make or break his dynasty?

And ofc if he hires someone with more contacts, will he actually trust them or be worried they might betray him and maybe even try to make him use the RT Warrant for them?

Spetulhu wrote:

 Adrassil wrote:
Hmm, I think one option a Rogue Trader has who has a lot of money but not many contacts are, as I mentioned, hiring mercenaries, while they won't be able to arm the mercs with much besides the most basic weapons but the more elite the mercs are and the more contacts they have, they might have a better arsenal than the Rogue Trader themselves

That's a good angle on it, to be fair. Top shelf mercs in the IoM will have veteran troopers, heavy armaments and armor and also a good deal of contacts. A client with a lot of cash can easily hire them.

But still. A RT with a lot of cash didn't get it from nowhere. His dynasty already had a lot of it, or he sold off a lot of equipment to get that cash. It didn't come from nowhere so you should still know what exactly made up the fortune the rookie RT used to buy it all with. Is he deeply in debt? Did he license off trade routes to some colonies his dynasty rediscovered? Did he sell off holdings on some major world to local nobles to raise the cash for the one expedition that will make or break his dynasty?

And ofc if he hires someone with more contacts, will he actually trust them or be worried they might betray him and maybe even try to make him use the RT Warrant for them?

I agree. The more I think about it, the more I think with Rogue Traders wealth and connection almost go hand in hand, especially for a long line of Rogue Traders. I find it hard to justify a really rich Rogue Trader having no connections at all. One way could be that they or their father pissed off their former connections somehow.

FFG's RT game covered this fairly well as well, you may want to check that out.

Spetulhu wrote:


Want advanced wargear? Don't just PAY the AdMech, tell them they can send a qualified TechPriest along to observe and record the performance of the equipment you asked for! As a bonus, if you operate outside Imperial space, he'll also be the first to examine any possible STC leads! The AdMech will fight for the chance to join you.

This is a great excuse that allows the admech (and by extension Rogue Traders) to use anything anywhere they like. Arriving to the Lord Solar's hive-top conclave on a custodes jetbike? Fieldtesting. 200 year crusade against the Elbonian menace, using Landraiders? Fieldtesting. Roboute Guilliman spearheading the Skitarri charge? Fieldtesting his new armour, using a combat servitor to approximate his combat prowess and personality.

Spetulhu wrote:
Want Navy support? Share your star charts with them and offer to take a few frigates along on a journey (you want escorts for) to ascertain the accuracy of your charts. Easy macrocannon batteries.

This is important. If all you have to offer is bags of cash, you are Rogue trader-ing wrong. The only reason these scouldrelous space pirates are permitted to exist is to seek out new/old things that are of value to the Imperium and it's organisations - information, resources and tech.

Spetulhu wrote:
Want Space Marine help? Tell them you'll be sailing off to fight the Chapter's favored enemy and they'll be happy to lend you an allied force in anticipation of glorious battle with the enemy they hate the most! Easy allied SM, and they'll even be grateful to you!

Previously uncontacted alien race is rumoured to worship a human weapon. Could it be the fabled (your primarch's relic) ?
Previously uncontacted alien race is dangerously close to your protectorate. Honour/Ancient oaths demand you wipe them out so i can sift through the ruins for treasure.
Previously uncontacted alien race (the Templars have already arrived, chainswords revving aggressively)
Previously uncontacted alien race have co-opted your heraldry (you'll need to flick through Insignum Astartes , but you'll probably find a chapter that's close enough)
Previously uncontacted alien race are humanlike in appearance but their females have noticeably more pronounced characteristics (Emperors Children support fleet inbound)

I honestly don't think there is a limit with enough credits on equipment.

want a custodes spear or sword. for the right price to the forge making them you provide the resources and you can probably have it. offer the forgeworld the resources to make many or said thing, plus money, plus a number of workers to make them and ask for one of said thing as the price and I doubt many/any would turn them down.

as said that does not mean you can effectively wield said sword or spear (probably still scaled to custodes size as that is the pattern and customization is heresey), but you have it.

Well.

It largely depends on the vintage of your Writ of Trade.

My old Rogue Trader RPG character spent character creation points to get one signed by The Emperor himself.

That gave me a lot of clout, as part of a significant dynasty.

Whilst I couldn’t requisition Astartes the way an Inquisitor can? It meant I was more likely to successfully petition. It also let me get away with murder (oh, did I save your butts? And now you’re whining? OUT THE AIRLOCK WITH YOU! No, I don’t care we’ve already translated to The Warp.

So in short, Rogue Trader’s vary somewhat. If they’ve got the coin, pretty much only Astartes can’t be bought (or Custodes. But I wouldn’t want one of those, that’s much too like oversight. And potentially, accountability!)

Once you eliminate the relationships with any of the established Imperial military forces and the Adeptus Mechanicus, you're left with whatever technology is common to a given sector. Despite the common misconception private companies exist and manufacture technology under the license and supervision of the mechanicus, so other sources do exist. Then you have the shadier sources of advance tech like the Necromunda Van Saars that secretly have a partially working STC.

Rogue traders working in the blacker markets could end up gaining access to human technologies others would rather the greater Imperium not know is being kept or produced.

That said the great majority of readily accessible advanced technology is generally similar to what the Imperial Guard and Imperial Navy use, but might otherwise just have minor but better features than those in a well off enough sector.

Much of what the Astartes use are relics or otherwise specially manufactured for them so a lot of that wouldn't really be acquirable. When you stop and think about it "what is the best tech money can buy?"- its probably the technology the Sister of Battle use since they don't really have their own manufacturing capabilities and they aren't on the greatest terms with the Mechanicus who they see as something of a competing sanctioned religion... the Sisters of Battle are funded by the religious tithes paid to the Ministorum. Across the galaxy that's alot more money than a Rogue Trader is going to have access to. In the lore there are rare instances of planets being well off enough to equip some basic human troops in power armor.

In the fiction we see anti-grav and speeders more often than we do in 40k... and used often enough by civilians or planetary forces too. So I could imagine these being in the hands of Rogue Traders. We also see aircraft equivalent to Valkyries and Arvus Lighters often enough, sometimes only capable of atmospheric flight. So again that would be readily available for a Rogue Trader.

I remember them having access to EVERYTHING. Orks, eldar, harlequins, weaponized goats; you name it. I always thought of it as GWs laziest army. Steam punk Star trek with only 1 original unit, the Rogue Trader himself. They'd have space marines too.

 godardc wrote:
Space Marines are way more than a power armor and muscles. Their mind is maybe their best weapon. That's why even if thunder warriors or others may have been tougher and stronger, only the Marines from the space prevailed.

Weren't Space Marines just cheaper and faster to produce? If I'm not mistaken, the Legions of the Great Crusade were massive operations that saw Space Marines die pretty quickly and frequently, thus requiring a fast level of production that didn't required individual treatment and customisation like the Thunder Warriors or the Custodes.

epronovost wrote:

 godardc wrote:
Space Marines are way more than a power armor and muscles. Their mind is maybe their best weapon. That's why even if thunder warriors or others may have been tougher and stronger, only the Marines from the space prevailed.

Weren't Space Marines just cheaper and faster to produce? If I'm not mistaken, the Legions of the Great Crusade were massive operations that saw Space Marines die pretty quickly and frequently, thus requiring a fast level of production that didn't required individual treatment and customisation like the Thunder Warriors or the Custodes.

Yes. Spacemarines are interesting in that they each have the potential to be Batman- photographic eidetic memories, intense physical conditioning and combat training. They also can eat enemies to absorb their memories, function without sleep for days, have access to a wealth of information gathering tools. The only thing stopping them from becoming peerless battle savants is chapter culture and the needs of the day.

There is no need for a tactical marine to be literate beyond understanding the symbols on his headsup display- his sergeant tells him where to go and what to shoot at.

Thus they can recruit some savage barbarian from planet Howard, fill him with implants, slap armour on his back and use a machine to teach him all he needs to know about trigger discipline and killing orks. He'll also be taught gothic (or whatever the chapter speaks) so he can understand verbal commands.

The only groups that seem to use the potential of marines to be a one man army are the Raven guard, Nightlords and Alpha legion (but I repeat myself.)