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 Togusa wrote:

Curious. Why? Common Space Marines, Heretical or Loyalist are trash teir units in the current edition of the game. They bring nothing, die to massed S3 fire.

Many of us still buy units because they look cool and we want to paint them. I want to replace my old Chaos marines with the incredibly cooler new models.

Apocalypse has never been about winning or a competitive meta, it is the most beer and pretzels of formats ever made.

Especially in the context of massed battles I am sure you will need at least 30 basic marines.

Wow, pretty disappointed at the admech trasnsport pricing, i understand that with the new prices old rhino price tag are impossible but 60 euro for a transport is pretty hefty. I could buy two of them or the admech bot deal and theres a pretty differences in point and usability.

Really quite tempted by the Chaos Marines.....

Forgive my ignorance. What are the d12's for? is this Apoc Exclusive?

We don’t know as yet.

But, could be to do with damage?

Yes. Apoc is it's own ruleset unrelated to40k so can use differing dices easily

 Dynas wrote:
Forgive my ignorance. What are the d12's for? is this Apoc Exclusive?

Yep it's a new ruleset. There's an article due any time now which might shed some light.

 RandomRubric wrote:
Wow, pretty disappointed at the admech trasnsport pricing, i understand that with the new prices old rhino price tag are impossible but 60 euro for a transport is pretty hefty. I could buy two of them or the admech bot deal and theres a pretty differences in point and usability.

Yeah I was really expecting something around £35 like the GSC Goliath, which is also a two sprue dual-kit transport around the same size. That extra £10 has dampened my enthusiasm somewhat.

Honestly it might be one of those "oh that's expensive" until you see it in the flesh kind of prices. Online a lot of models look about the same sorta size in photos but can differ dramatically once you hold and see them.

The D12 I assume are likely going to be used to allow you to roll 100 attacks at a time or something to that effect and use it as a totalled result rather than having to actually roll 100 dice. A sensible move because beyond a certain point just rolling more dice does not increase the game fun and can actually decrease it.

I'm thinking the Hoverboat will be a couple of big sprues like the plagueburst crawler and that was £40 a couple of years ago (and not even a dual kit)

 RandomRubric wrote:
Wow, pretty disappointed at the admech trasnsport pricing, i understand that with the new prices old rhino price tag are impossible but 60 euro for a transport is pretty hefty. I could buy two of them or the admech bot deal and theres a pretty differences in point and usability.

Part of the problem is the dual kit nature of it. I expected it to be priced like the DG Plague Burst Crawler, not the GSC Ridgerunner. It's a tank and it gets tank pricing.

From the description, I am guessing that the Apocalypse rules are just upscaled Epic rules. They even talk about large and small blast markers, just like in epic.

 Overread wrote:
Honestly it might be one of those "oh that's expensive" until you see it in the flesh kind of prices. Online a lot of models look about the same sorta size in photos but can differ dramatically once you hold and see them.

The D12 I assume are likely going to be used to allow you to roll 100 attacks at a time or something to that effect and use it as a totalled result rather than having to actually roll 100 dice. A sensible move because beyond a certain point just rolling more dice does not increase the game fun and can actually decrease it.

As an owner of hands like shovels, I firmly dispute that rolling more dice doesn’t increase the fun

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/06/17/apocalypse-top-level-conceptsgw-homepage-post-1/

First preview is up, including an explanation on D12s

It’s....it’s....

It’s Epic Armageddon. It is. It Bloody Is. Except with Epic Space Marine’s orders?

I think I may be sold!

 Malkyr wrote:

 Togusa wrote:

Curious. Why? Common Space Marines, Heretical or Loyalist are trash teir units in the current edition of the game. They bring nothing, die to massed S3 fire.

Many of us still buy units because they look cool and we want to paint them. I want to replace my old Chaos marines with the incredibly cooler new models.

Apocalypse has never been about winning or a competitive meta, it is the most beer and pretzels of formats ever made.

Especially in the context of massed battles I am sure you will need at least 30 basic marines.

And just like everyone else who tells me this, experience has shown me better.

Every format is about WAAC. Apoc, Killteam, AT, 40K, Sigmar, Necromunda, Warcry. They're all going to be WAAC games because the majority of the player base is WAAC.

I respect your love of the models however. I too like the new sculpts a lot. I've got 40 of em myself, but even when I play "friendly" games with them. They just get shot off the table turn one, do nothing and make me very sad.

10,000 year old veterans touched by the dark gods indeed...

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
It’s....it’s....

It’s Epic Armageddon. It is. It Bloody Is. Except with Epic Space Marine’s orders?

I think I may be sold!

Apoc - the Beta rules system for the relaunch of Epic?!

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
It’s....it’s....

It’s Epic Armageddon. It is. It Bloody Is. Except with Epic Space Marine’s orders?

I think I may be sold!

Indeed. Looks like Forbidden Power and GHB were phoned in because all the real talent was working on Apocalypse.

Oh my god the hype has gone into overdrive for me. feth I'm gonna spend a fortune on this. Sorry plastic sisters. You are gonna wait.

Actually inflicting damage aside, I’d love for 40k proper to adopt the ‘stuff is taken off at the end of the game turn, not player turn’.

Very very intrigued to hear more.

Not sure how I feel about it. On the one hand, the old epic rules are a better starting point, but on the other I'd just rather have epic and sensibly sized models for this game scale.

Not entirely sold on Detachments as the primary actor. Those can and do vary wildly in size and effectiveness.

Voss wrote:
Not sure how I feel about it. On the one hand, the old epic rules are a better starting point, but on the other I'd just rather have epic and sensibly sized models for this game scale.

Not entirely sold on Detachments as the primary actor. Those can and do vary wildly in size and effectiveness.

True on both counts but remember Apoc is slightly less about balance and more about "freaking heck that's a lot of models". Even GW realises that the majority of clubs are likely going to have several players combine armies just to make up some detachments. That said if they've got some serious rules then it gives this casual game mode some really good foundations to be just fun! Also if they are re-using the epic rules it could be a casual way to mass test them in the open pending a proper Epic launch.

Because if they re-did epic then the detachment and game balance would improve dramatically simply through players being able to actually buy and field full detachments per person in a sane budget and time scale and space.

Seems for Apoc, it’s mostly borrowing the titles, and each will have other benefits?

I think this is a smarter way to do Apoc. Game speed is one thing, but not dragging 40k itself into ever larger armies is another.

See, as a game continues down the years, peeps collections will inevitably become larger, and we’ll at some point fancy an ‘everything and the kitchen sink’ game. GW’s previous issue, especially with 8th Ed Warhammer, was scaling the game toward those far larger engagements,

That creates at least a perceived minimum points barrier, which can easily put off newcomers, and indeed people starting a new army.

Spinning this off to a similar but separate game? That’s not a bad idea at all.

Of course I’d love Epic proper back, but this will do for me, for now

Proper epic is probably never coming back due to the sheer size of the model range. This most likely is Epic without having to recast a thousand different models into tiny plastic sprues.

It's like 40k as is, but even more simple and even more streamlined. I don't like it, since I think 40k has been "dumbed down" too much as is.

Space marine faction focus
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/06/17/apocalypse-faction-focus-space-marinesgw-homepage-post-2/

Yea I'll have to see it in action because I just don't see the appeal for rules like this. Kill team having seperate rules makes sense because you don't need to play 40k to play kill team. If you're playing apocalypse you have a 40k army already.

Who playing a giant 6000 point battle wants it to be 'quick and easy'?

I don't get it.

Looking at the preview, all I can say is "It's about damned time they came out with scaled game rules."

On the other hand, I still have my movement trays for my Chaos Demons from back when WHFB existed. I'm going to need a quota system to limit the number of WHFB jokes during Apocalypse games.

 Don Savik wrote:
Yea I'll have to see it in action because I just don't see the appeal for rules like this. Kill team having seperate rules makes sense because you don't need to play 40k to play kill team. If you're playing apocalypse you have a 40k army already.

Who playing a giant 6000 point battle wants it to be 'quick and easy'?

I don't get it.

It's not so much about making it "quick and easy" but more meaning that when you're playing a 20K or 40K point game you don't have to book off the whole weekend to finish it. Ergo making it a game mode that can operate within general club time constraints rather than something that only gets rolled out once a year if that.

 Don Savik wrote:
Yea I'll have to see it in action because I just don't see the appeal for rules like this. Kill team having seperate rules makes sense because you don't need to play 40k to play kill team. If you're playing apocalypse you have a 40k army already.

Who playing a giant 6000 point battle wants it to be 'quick and easy'?

Me.

After 10 years of collecting I'm well past 20,000pts worth of Tyranids, along with several gargantuan creatures. But as a parent with a partner who works most weekends, the odds of getting a full free day to slog through all the minutiae needed for a regular 40k scale are remote.

I'd much rather play nu-Epic with all my existing toys in a usual evening.

 Don Savik wrote:
Yea I'll have to see it in action because I just don't see the appeal for rules like this. Kill team having seperate rules makes sense because you don't need to play 40k to play kill team. If you're playing apocalypse you have a 40k army already.

Who playing a giant 6000 point battle wants it to be 'quick and easy'?

I don't get it.

From a GW perspective, time is something that’s been a challenge.

Me, I effing LOVE big, massive games. But time is a sod. When you’ve got 12,000+ points a side, using pretty much the base 40k rules? There’s a lot to standing around doing not a lot. And most games I’ve played didn’t get beyond the third turn.

Streamlining the way this promises? Might actually get the full six or so turns in. Which shakes up what is good in Apocalypse, and importantly? What’s practical in Apocalypse.

Add in that damage is applied at the end of the round, rather than player turn? Suddenly, the big expensive Forgeworld Ming I bought, assembled and painted at great cost in Bothan lives? It’s still guaranteed to get at least a shot in should I lose the first turn.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh man! Inadvertent dogpiling was inadvertent!