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So we are what, two years or so into 8th. A lot of stuff has happened with the game since the spring of 17, and for most of that time many of us were riding high. But I have begun to finally slow down from all this. The near constant state of releases, even though I don't plan to buy even 1/4th of them has become exhausting. I've noticed how wonky the games scale is, and it really throws me off some days. It doesn't really feel as though the GW rules team has used CA or the BFAQ's to actually fix or change anything either. Primaris have in two years gone no where, and the marine line as a whole looks like a hot mess, that doesn't appear to be in the place of changing anytime soon.

Over the last month or so I've shifted my gaming focuses back to electronics and to TRPGS. 40K just isn't holding my attention at the moment, possibly because of over saturation. Anyone else feeling this way?

Not really, I'm having a ton of fun with the 40k tournament scene. There are ITC events every other weekend for me to go to, which is really driving how I spend my hobby time lately.

 Horst wrote:
Not really, I'm having a ton of fun with the 40k tournament scene. There are ITC events every other weekend for me to go to, which is really driving how I spend my hobby time lately.

One issue I've been struggling with lately is related to the event scene. I don't like the style of play, but almost everyone wants to play their missions using the ITC rules. It's starting to become a hassle for me sometimes just to find someone who wants to run a simple mission out of the book. I just do not see the appeal of the ITC format. It seems heavily stacked in favor of things like elite armies and alpha strikes, two things that make the game a lot less fun for me to play.

 Togusa wrote:

 Horst wrote:
Not really, I'm having a ton of fun with the 40k tournament scene. There are ITC events every other weekend for me to go to, which is really driving how I spend my hobby time lately.

One issue I've been struggling with lately is related to the event scene. I don't like the style of play, but almost everyone wants to play their missions using the ITC rules. It's starting to become a hassle for me sometimes just to find someone who wants to run a simple mission out of the book. I just do not see the appeal of the ITC format. It seems heavily stacked in favor of things like elite armies and alpha strikes, two things that make the game a lot less fun for me to play.

Hordes keep winning in my ITC area. Hordes are REALLY good, and almost unstoppable in the book missions. That's why I don't play the book missions.

Apoc is going to change things up I think. People will much prefer it. No invune saves and less shenanigans.

Martel732 wrote:

 Togusa wrote:

 Horst wrote:
Not really, I'm having a ton of fun with the 40k tournament scene. There are ITC events every other weekend for me to go to, which is really driving how I spend my hobby time lately.

One issue I've been struggling with lately is related to the event scene. I don't like the style of play, but almost everyone wants to play their missions using the ITC rules. It's starting to become a hassle for me sometimes just to find someone who wants to run a simple mission out of the book. I just do not see the appeal of the ITC format. It seems heavily stacked in favor of things like elite armies and alpha strikes, two things that make the game a lot less fun for me to play.

Hordes keep winning in my ITC area. Hordes are REALLY good, and almost unstoppable in the book missions. That's why I don't play the book missions.

I think it really depends on your opponents. Playing 40K is a social contract. I do still have a few people I can play with that I can trust are not going to down a cup of nitro when building their list. When you don't take one play-style and turn it to 11, the game can be a lot of fun.

It depends on the army you're playing. I think it's a good bit more balanced away from alpha strikes than regular 40k, honestly, since there is more terrain and first levels of ruins block line of sight.

 Xenomancers wrote:
Apoc is going to change things up I think. People will much prefer it. No invune saves and less shenanigans.

But I don't want to play those large games, and the rules look more bland than base 40K. I agree that if some of that becomes a basis for 9th edition, things could be a lot better. And things now are a lot better than 7th, by far. But, Apoc isn't going to solve my dwindling interest.

IMO tournaments should forgo "objectives" - whoever controls the middle of the table at the end of 5 turns or until your opponent runs out of models should be how competitive 40k is played.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Togusa wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Apoc is going to change things up I think. People will much prefer it. No invune saves and less shenanigans.

But I don't want to play those large games, and the rules look more bland than base 40K. I agree that if some of that becomes a basis for 9th edition, things could be a lot better. And things now are a lot better than 7th, by far. But, Apoc isn't going to solve my dwindling interest.

You could start a new army maybe. I like building and painting the most I've really come to find. The actual playing causes me to lose interest. Cause the game really isn't much fun right now. Alpha strikes - losing half your army in 1 turn and CC locking up huge swaths of units making them useless really frustrates me as I try to play weaker lists just to have fun. Getting slaughtered without using your units is not fun.

It's only getting better for me, and it's riding a high wave of success. My local scene is really alive, there are events all over the place, and it's getting more coverage than ever before.

Up and Up

 Xenomancers wrote:
IMO tournaments should forgo "objectives" - whoever controls the middle of the table at the end of 5 turns or until your opponent runs out of models should be how competitive 40k is played.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Togusa wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Apoc is going to change things up I think. People will much prefer it. No invune saves and less shenanigans.

But I don't want to play those large games, and the rules look more bland than base 40K. I agree that if some of that becomes a basis for 9th edition, things could be a lot better. And things now are a lot better than 7th, by far. But, Apoc isn't going to solve my dwindling interest.

You could start a new army maybe. I like building and painting the most I've really come to find. The actual playing causes me to lose interest. Cause the game really isn't much fun right now. Alpha strikes - losing half your army in 1 turn and CC locking up huge swaths of units making them useless really frustrates me as I try to play weaker lists just to have fun. Getting slaughtered without using your units is not fun.

I thought about going over to AoS for a few months and playing there. Our community has a small and passionate AoS narrative group.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ishagu wrote:
It's only getting better for me, and it's riding a high wave of success. My local scene is really alive, there are events all over the place, and it's getting more coverage than ever before.

Up and Up

I don't disagree, it's on the rise of course. I'm just experiencing a wave of exhaustion.

 Togusa wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
IMO tournaments should forgo "objectives" - whoever controls the middle of the table at the end of 5 turns or until your opponent runs out of models should be how competitive 40k is played.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Togusa wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Apoc is going to change things up I think. People will much prefer it. No invune saves and less shenanigans.

But I don't want to play those large games, and the rules look more bland than base 40K. I agree that if some of that becomes a basis for 9th edition, things could be a lot better. And things now are a lot better than 7th, by far. But, Apoc isn't going to solve my dwindling interest.

You could start a new army maybe. I like building and painting the most I've really come to find. The actual playing causes me to lose interest. Cause the game really isn't much fun right now. Alpha strikes - losing half your army in 1 turn and CC locking up huge swaths of units making them useless really frustrates me as I try to play weaker lists just to have fun. Getting slaughtered without using your units is not fun.

I thought about going over to AoS for a few months and playing there. Our community has a small and passionate AoS narrative group.

Sigmar is pretty fun. Models are even better than 40k too. I do a fair amount of switching between the 2 right now. Something that really helps me is switching between evil and good armies every game. It allows you to feel different during the battles. Which makes things more interesting.

Nada, going to 1-2 tournaments a month and even traveling abroad for ITC tournaments.

And seeing how the 40k champs tickets for LVO sold out in 22 hours seems the community has never been stronger.

And GW keeps on releasing cool stuff and point balancing so this little soldier is living in the golden age!

With Love

Not wearing off. Enjoying 8th a helluva lot, and our gaming group has recently grown in number. Long may it continue.

Personally? Yes. I really enjoy the core concept of 8th, but as codices and armies evolve it's become far too much "gotcha" hammer for me.

Its nothing like the type of wargame I wish to play and to top it off, playing in a narrative way is difficult with the extreme push for competitive gaming 24/7, so I gave it a hard pass.

I find it depends on the group. there are really at least 3 different communities in my town. one is hyper competative and will only ever want ITC missions. the other group are the fluff bunnies every game will be book mission or open wart and randomly determined. the fluff bunnies will take a themed army and have fun makign a narrative scenario for why they are fighting. then there are the gamestore groupies who just want to play at a specific store and could care less about if it is ITC or open war so long as it is at a specific location. a few of us travel between these groups but they are mostly insular communities.

 Togusa wrote:

 Horst wrote:
Not really, I'm having a ton of fun with the 40k tournament scene. There are ITC events every other weekend for me to go to, which is really driving how I spend my hobby time lately.

One issue I've been struggling with lately is related to the event scene. I don't like the style of play, but almost everyone wants to play their missions using the ITC rules. It's starting to become a hassle for me sometimes just to find someone who wants to run a simple mission out of the book. I just do not see the appeal of the ITC format. It seems heavily stacked in favor of things like elite armies and alpha strikes, two things that make the game a lot less fun for me to play.

TO's can use their own missions or even the book missions for events. I plan to do so for an upcoming event.

ITC does not require that you use their missions. So see if your T.O. even knows that and whether he's willing to be less sheep and more leader on that sort of thing. I like the Chapter Approved missions also. those ones are pretty great and ITC even took a cue from them with their missions 2,4 and 6.

As for the question in general: Primaris Marines have gotten a ton of love and development so the original post makes little sense to me. I would refute the assertion that they've "gone nowhere". They are CONSIDERABLY more impossing now than when first they dropped.

But still crappy thanks to 2 damage prevalence and bizarre weapon loadouts.

Martel732 wrote:
But still crappy thanks to 2 damage prevalence and bizarre weapon loadouts.

making them Veterans is pretty awesome. they are a ridiculously good firebase and 4 attacks with a Powerfist on a damn Primaris is gold. How you use anything is what makes it valuable.

Oh yeah. Those are good. But i dont get them. Out of sight out of mind. BA primaris stuff is mostly terrible.

I agree - Vet intercessors are probably the best things space marines have to offer right now. I do pretty well with them but I can't move - they deserve this firepower on the move for their cost.

 Xenomancers wrote:
I agree - Vet intercessors are probably the best things space marines have to offer right now. I do pretty well with them but I can't move - they deserve this firepower on the move for their cost.

They really dont deserve it.

Howver its absolutely not true that they dont move. I see a lot of people giving up great tactical position just to roll some extra dice but heres the secret: once you advance once, you'll often be shooting those extra shots anyways because you'll be close enough. So honestly, not playing mobile is a choice, not a restriction.

 Jancoran wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
I agree - Vet intercessors are probably the best things space marines have to offer right now. I do pretty well with them but I can't move - they deserve this firepower on the move for their cost.

They really dont deserve it.

Howver its absolutely not true that they dont move. I see a lot of people giving up great tactical position just to roll some extra dice but heres the secret: once you advance once, you'll often be shooting those extra shots anyways because you'll be close enough. So honestly, not playing mobile is a choice, not a restriction.

Okay...they don't deserve it...Other units in the game don't have to stay still or waste a round of shooting or spend a CP per squad be be considered decent. They absolutely deserve it. Until I see a single army place high in a 100+ tournament spamming intercessors they need improvement. Heck for 1 more point per unit DW intercessors are MUCH better. Bolter discipline still needs improvement.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
I agree - Vet intercessors are probably the best things space marines have to offer right now. I do pretty well with them but I can't move - they deserve this firepower on the move for their cost.

They really dont deserve it.

Howver its absolutely not true that they dont move. I see a lot of people giving up great tactical position just to roll some extra dice but heres the secret: once you advance once, you'll often be shooting those extra shots anyways because you'll be close enough. So honestly, not playing mobile is a choice, not a restriction.

Okay...they don't deserve it...Other units in the game don't have to stay still or waste a round of shooting or spend a CP per squad be be considered decent. They absolutely deserve it. Until I see a single army place high in a 100+ tournament spamming intercessors they need improvement. Heck for 1 more point per unit DW intercessors are MUCH better. Bolter discipline still needs improvement.

Does literally any army except Daemons "spam" a troops unit though? And even then, it's 2 max size units of plaguebearers, not really spammed. Troops in general are just sub par, and they exist to hold objectives. The fact that some of them can do damage is usually a bonus.

Kinda sorta, only because I'm waiting on full infiltrator, suppressor, and eliminator kits.

More or less all of my interest has faltered, its not on the game though, at its core I like 8th. Its more the new kits (particularly the CSM Termies) where there are no options. Which I was fine with the lack of options for the Primaris kits, they were built that way lorewise and if their stuff would actually release to fill gaps it would be fine. But just one of my local stores kills it by being too pushy, the Codexes seeming to go right back into having to get the newest hottest stuff.

Killteam is about the only 40k Ive been playing lately, and I havent even touched my 40k or Killteam projects lately.

 Horst wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
I agree - Vet intercessors are probably the best things space marines have to offer right now. I do pretty well with them but I can't move - they deserve this firepower on the move for their cost.

They really dont deserve it.

Howver its absolutely not true that they dont move. I see a lot of people giving up great tactical position just to roll some extra dice but heres the secret: once you advance once, you'll often be shooting those extra shots anyways because you'll be close enough. So honestly, not playing mobile is a choice, not a restriction.

Okay...they don't deserve it...Other units in the game don't have to stay still or waste a round of shooting or spend a CP per squad be be considered decent. They absolutely deserve it. Until I see a single army place high in a 100+ tournament spamming intercessors they need improvement. Heck for 1 more point per unit DW intercessors are MUCH better. Bolter discipline still needs improvement.

Does literally any army except Daemons "spam" a troops unit though? And even then, it's 2 max size units of plaguebearers, not really spammed. Troops in general are just sub par, and they exist to hold objectives. The fact that some of them can do damage is usually a bonus.

Uhhh its not the only strategy in the game that works but spamming troops is a pretty core part of the competitive game right now. 90+ infantry squads is common. DE spamming Khabs in venoms is common. Tau spam 3 batallions with 45 fire warriors. Chaos bring a ton of cultists and daemon troop allies. Orks spam troops to the max. Armies that can't do it struggle or they just borrow guardsmen or they are Eldar. Spamming troops is a huge part of the game. If intercessors were anywhere near as good as to not deserve to be able to move during the game or sacrifice 50% of the their damage. They'd probably be on every imperial table.

Imo your just wrong; many many things have been implemented to game that help the over all game state and open up design space. Rule of three, every strategy that was to much has been summary executed, 40+cp imperium farm, ynnari double action, castellan and Knight dominance, in fact to much imo at a unhealthy rate. Fixes take time, rules and units don't exist in a vacuum unlike what seems like most people seem to think. Changing things can have massive foreseen or unforseen implications.

8th is the most diverse edition ever. Some factions are just going through be bad; and while I think thats a massive shame I'm glad for it. Competition in strategy games you want diversity but you also want solid limitations( see MTG modern format being massively disliked by the pro community). And yes I think that this judgement should be made looking at it competitively because in fluff play who can viably do whatever you want it's all about the opponent not the game.

No matter how popular or good something is it's going to be disliked by some people. 8th is basically as close to objectively better then any other edition of the game looking at the diversity of units, tourney attendance rates, gw sales, increase in community size, number of events etc. That being said though it might just not be for you.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
I agree - Vet intercessors are probably the best things space marines have to offer right now. I do pretty well with them but I can't move - they deserve this firepower on the move for their cost.

They really dont deserve it.

Howver its absolutely not true that they dont move. I see a lot of people giving up great tactical position just to roll some extra dice but heres the secret: once you advance once, you'll often be shooting those extra shots anyways because you'll be close enough. So honestly, not playing mobile is a choice, not a restriction.

Okay...they don't deserve it...Other units in the game don't have to stay still or waste a round of shooting or spend a CP per squad be be considered decent. They absolutely deserve it. Until I see a single army place high in a 100+ tournament spamming intercessors they need improvement. Heck for 1 more point per unit DW intercessors are MUCH better. Bolter discipline still needs improvement.

It just happened. Lol. Ultramatrines took like 2nd at a big tournament QUITE recently using them. Tau and Chaos took the other two top slots. Yup.