Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

More than any other character its easy to imagine the favor of the Chaos gods would be causing him swell with power. so even if they haven't officially given a reason for his bigger size I don't think it wrong.

On a design level, they didn't want Abaddon to be someone that everyone looked at and said, Robute could kill him sooooo easily and put an end to everything.

 Ishagu wrote:

 insaniak wrote:
Is possible to make a guy stand out without him being 18 feet tall...

In a realistic game perhaps? This is hero scale, abstract wargaming.

Yeah, you keep saying that. It isn't true. GW's models are all nominally the same scale... they just don't try too hard to get it right. But models that are bigger than others are that way because the characters they represent are bigger.

Having a game that uses true LOS but makes some models three times larger than others just for show would be absurd.

Quasistellar wrote:
It’s correct in the sense that the model is awesome and he’s the biggest non Primarch human.

The scale in 40k isn’t anything close to true scale. For example, rhinos are way too small. In fact just about every space marine vehicle with transport capacity is too small.

They’re gaming models, not archival blueprints of stuff. People get too caught up with scale. I’m more concerned with the model looking cool and not having weird and ugly proportions.

I'm concerned about the army looking cool, most of all. Imo it looks less cool when it looks less believable, and Abaddons scale is just absurd to me.

Same with Guilliman. I don't like the scale of the non-daemon Primarchs in general. Magnus is super cool though, I have no problem with the Daemon Primarchs being absolute monsters.

If scale is one of your top priorities you picked the wrong wargame. Scale has never been accurate at any point in any edition.

 Ishagu wrote:
If scale is one of your top priorities you picked the wrong wargame. Scale has never been accurate at any point in any edition.

Depends on what models you're looking at. 2nd ed Abaddon next to 2nd ed Terminators looks great.

 Insectum7 wrote:

 Ishagu wrote:
If scale is one of your top priorities you picked the wrong wargame. Scale has never been accurate at any point in any edition.

Depends on what models you're looking at. 2nd ed Abaddon next to 2nd ed Terminators looks great.

Yes, and in the same edition we had tiny, clown car Rhinos that apparently fit 10 Astartes.

 Ishagu wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:

 Ishagu wrote:
If scale is one of your top priorities you picked the wrong wargame. Scale has never been accurate at any point in any edition.

Depends on what models you're looking at. 2nd ed Abaddon next to 2nd ed Terminators looks great.

Yes, and in the same edition we had tiny, clown car Rhinos that apparently fit 10 Astartes.

Concessions are made for certain larger models, and vehicle scale is often built around presentation and playability. Additionally, the original Rhino was released in the RTB01 era, so it was scaled for smaller passengers. Nor is this about exacting 1:1 "accuracy", it's about consistency between "like" models in a given range. Abaddon is a Terminator, how does he look next to other Terminators? In 2nd, he was slightly larger than his contemporaries. Current model is stupid-big. He doesn't even fit with his expected cohorts, looking totally out of place in his own army, imo.

I don't get why you have a problem with that. The novels clearly tell us multiple times that this is actually how tall Ezekyle Abaddon is, even before Horus even started doubting the emperor. I'm pretty sure that there was a scene where the Justaerin were trying out a new suit of Terminator armor and Abaddon didn't get one because he needed a larger one custom-made for him.

Making Abaddon the size of a terminator would be would be wrong according to the background.

 Jidmah wrote:
I don't get why you have a problem with that. The novels clearly tell us multiple times that this is actually how tall Ezekyle Abaddon is, even before Horus even started doubting the emperor. I'm pretty sure that there was a scene where the Justaerin were trying out a new suit of Terminator armor and Abaddon didn't get one because he needed a larger one custom-made for him.

Making Abaddon the size of a terminator would be would be wrong according to the background.

Really? He's like 12 feet tall? Does he still only take up two spaces in a Land Raider? Do you need to redesign your architecture so your heroes can walk around? Are Space Marines the same as Orks and just keep getting bigger as they age? Or is Black Library perhaps full of over-exaggeration?

The "embiggening" of Black Library is dumb, and I hate that it's seeping into GWs model design.

So you are complaining about models matching the background. Cool. Please file a complain to GW that every model should match your head-canon, and only yours.

People are taller than other people. There is no reason why space marines shouldn't be different sizes either, especially when they are drawn from different planets with different amounts of gravity.
I am a feet taller than the average person, I fail to see how its a problem that Abaddon is a feet taller than the average terminator.

 Jidmah wrote:
So you are complaining about models matching the background. Cool. Please file a complain to GW that every model should match your head-canon, and only yours.

People are taller than other people. There is no reason why space marines shouldn't be different sizes either, especially when they are drawn from different planets with different amounts of gravity.
I am a feet taller than the average person, I fail to see how its a problem that Abaddon is a feet taller than the average terminator.

A: Some background is better than other background. That should be self evident. I also get to choose what parts I like.

B: Some height differences are more acceptable than others. A tall Abaddon I have no issue with, thank you for misrepresenting my point. A 40% taller than average marine I have a problem with.

 Crimson wrote:
The new Abaddon model is in the scale Primarchs should have been (and thus right scale for Abaddon, as he's supposed to be primarch-sized.) He looks like a really big guy in 40K scale, instead of a model of some game using different scale accidentally placed next to 40K models like the Primarchs do.

A lot of space marines are supposed to be Primarch sized. Given how huge they made some of them, who really believes a normal Space Marine, let alone several of them drew straws to see who would be welded into a mask as an assassination target to protect Sanguinius? Alpharius and Omegon and their "I am Alpharius" shtick? The Perpetual Emperor has been around for how long, and people haven't put two and two together on the 16 foot tall dude surrounded by a glowing golden nimbus? Everyone remember them squaring off in the artwork? They're the same height. Gulliman's model has him somewhere around 20 feet tall if the Tactical Marine is 7. So Horus and the Emperor should also be 20 feet tall.

How does Abaddon fit in the Land Raider, while Horus, Guilliman, the Emperor, and the Primaris do not?!?!?

Exactly, it's some BL writer's size inflation magical realm fetish.

The original of that, the Emperor and Horus wore ordinary Terminator armour



All in all, it seems ever apparent that Hugeness leads to heresy.

They're still the same size. If Primarchs are 20 feet tall, the Emperor is 20 feet tall. If the Primarchs are 12 feet tall, the Emperor is 12 feet tall. If they're large Space Marine 8 feet tall, the Emperor is 8 feet tall.

 Insectum7 wrote:
Some height differences are more acceptable than others. A tall Abaddon I have no issue with, thank you for misrepresenting my point. A 40% taller than average marine I have a problem with.

He is not 40% taller, neither in model, nor in lore. The model is about a head taller than the regular terminator, just like I am a head taller than most regular people. That's normal size difference.
And Abbadon isn't even the tallest of the Lunar Wolves, Tarik Torgaddon would be taller than Abbadon, if not for his top-knot.

 Jidmah wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
Some height differences are more acceptable than others. A tall Abaddon I have no issue with, thank you for misrepresenting my point. A 40% taller than average marine I have a problem with.

He is not 40% taller, neither in model, nor in lore. The model is about a head taller than the regular terminator, just like I am a head taller than most regular people. That's normal size difference.
And Abbadon isn't even the tallest of the Lunar Wolves, Tarik Torgaddon would be taller than Abbadon, if not for his top-knot.

Use your eyeballs. That model is not "a head" taller.

 Insectum7 wrote:

Really? He's like 12 feet tall?

Looking at the model, seems like he is about nine feet tall.

Breton wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
The new Abaddon model is in the scale Primarchs should have been (and thus right scale for Abaddon, as he's supposed to be primarch-sized.) He looks like a really big guy in 40K scale, instead of a model of some game using different scale accidentally placed next to 40K models like the Primarchs do.

A lot of space marines are supposed to be Primarch sized. Given how huge they made some of them, who really believes a normal Space Marine, let alone several of them drew straws to see who would be welded into a mask as an assassination target to protect Sanguinius? Alpharius and Omegon and their "I am Alpharius" shtick? The Perpetual Emperor has been around for how long, and people haven't put two and two together on the 16 foot tall dude surrounded by a glowing golden nimbus? Everyone remember them squaring off in the artwork? They're the same height. Gulliman's model has him somewhere around 20 feet tall if the Tactical Marine is 7. So Horus and the Emperor should also be 20 feet tall.

How does Abaddon fit in the Land Raider, while Horus, Guilliman, the Emperor, and the Primaris do not?!?!?

Yeah, Primarchs are too tall. Though Guilliman is scaled to be about ten feet. Still too tall. I think this new Abaddon size should be the max size for Primarchs, some could be smaller.

 Insectum7 wrote:

Use your eyeballs. That model is not "a head" taller.

We are and it is. The massive elevated base makes the size difference to seem bigger.

 Crimson wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:

Really? He's like 12 feet tall?

Looking at the model, seems like he is about nine feet tall.

I admit 12" is an exaggeration in haste. Though I would like to see a guardsman/cultist, or a modern space marine next to him to compare.

 Crimson wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:

Use your eyeballs. That model is not "a head" taller.

We are and it is. The massive elevated base makes the size difference to seem bigger.

Plainly more than a head taller. If you have a different reference, feel free to post it.

A bit more, yes. The terminator is more hunched though.

 Crimson wrote:
A bit more, yes. The terminator is more hunched though.

If you want to go that route, Abaddons legs are splayed. Both models could "stand" taller.

In any case, I don't think Abaddon is ridiculously large for a Primarch-scale guy, he is a bit taller than a Primaris. Granted, it is shame that GW didn't fully rescale the CSM to be Primaris-sized. which is a good SM size. Guilliman on the other hand is ludicrously large, and has bizarre proportions.

 Crimson wrote:
In any case, I don't think Abaddon is ridiculously large for a Primarch-scale guy, he is a bit taller than a Primaris. Granted, it is shame that GW didn't fully rescale the CSM to be Primaris-sized. which is a good SM size. Guilliman on the other hand is ludicrously large, and has bizarre proportions.

Agree on Guilliman, obviously disagree on Abaddon. I'm not fond of the primaris size either.

 Insectum7 wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
A bit more, yes. The terminator is more hunched though.

If you want to go that route, Abaddons legs are splayed. Both models could "stand" taller.

The Terminator is also behind Abaddon. They're not on the same 3D Plane/centerline. The top of the Termie Head is likely to be even with the top of Abaddon's gorget if he's pulled to the same Depth.

Breton wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
A bit more, yes. The terminator is more hunched though.

If you want to go that route, Abaddons legs are splayed. Both models could "stand" taller.

The Terminator is also behind Abaddon. They're not on the same 3D Plane/centerline. The top of the Termie Head is likely to be even with the top of Abaddon's gorget if he's pulled to the same Depth.

The image is a composite using base size to guage scale, neither model is in front of the other. It was just the image I could find. Feel free to post your own.

 Insectum7 wrote:


The image is a composite using base size to guage scale, neither model is in front of the other. It was just the image I could find. Feel free to post your own.

You took two different pictures with potentially two different Distance-To-Lens scales, tried to compare them, and you're mad someone pointed out that's not how photographic comparison works? Do you know which base the Chaos Terminator is on? Did you measure the size of the base in the photo to figure out what % the Terminator has been shrunk/enlarged? Then do the same thing with Abaddon who may have more Zoom to show off more detail, in addition to having a shorter distance-to-lens?

Put this another way- you're not comparing known quantity/quality. That Terminator is probably on a 40mm base. Probably. But it could be zoomed out so the base is only 30mm on the screen because it was part of a unit photo. Or that's where the zoom on the camera was from the last photo. Meanwhile, the Abaddon base is probably officially a 60mm base. But it could be zoomed in for selling the detail on the sculpt so it's 90 mm across. This would result in an image of a Terminator 75% of it's actual height being compared to Abaddon 150% of his actual height. Playing with zoom is an easy way to throw this off, playing with distance to lens and camera angle is how Peter Jackson make Elijah Wood look like a hobbit.

I actually own Abaddon and the new Chaos Terminator kit and the size disparity is nothing like that image.

Breton wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
A bit more, yes. The terminator is more hunched though.

If you want to go that route, Abaddons legs are splayed. Both models could "stand" taller.

The Terminator is also behind Abaddon. They're not on the same 3D Plane/centerline. The top of the Termie Head is likely to be even with the top of Abaddon's gorget if he's pulled to the same Depth.

Tell me, do you actually own the Abby model? Because I do.

Now, I'll preface this with saying I was iffy on the scale, so much so I minorly converted him and use him as a Daemon Prince. The model is fething huge. Even modern Termies like Blightlords are dwarfed by him.

 Grimtuff wrote:


Tell me, do you actually own the Abby model? Because I do.

Now, I'll preface this with saying I was iffy on the scale, so much so I minorly converted him and use him as a Daemon Prince. The model is fething huge. Even modern Termies like Blightlords are dwarfed by him.

Do I need to, in order to point out technical issues with comparing multiple images with multiple different scales to compare the non-image scale of the model?

I'm just saying he IS as huge as people say, though curiously not at the same time (I was a bit iffy about using him as a DP initially). You need to have the mini in your hands to really appreciate this phenomenon, where on his own he look deceptively larger than he is, but then you put him next to other minis and you see his "true" size. However...

A lot of his bulk comes from the cape and trophy rack, heck; Drac'nyan is the same size as the original model's one. But he is still huge. I can't get pics right now as I'm not at home but he dwarfs other large, modern Termie minis like Typhus and Blightlord Termies.

Breton wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:


The image is a composite using base size to guage scale, neither model is in front of the other. It was just the image I could find. Feel free to post your own.

You took two different pictures with potentially two different Distance-To-Lens scales, tried to compare them, and you're mad someone pointed out that's not how photographic comparison works? Do you know which base the Chaos Terminator is on? Did you measure the size of the base in the photo to figure out what % the Terminator has been shrunk/enlarged? Then do the same thing with Abaddon who may have more Zoom to show off more detail, in addition to having a shorter distance-to-lens?

Put this another way- you're not comparing known quantity/quality. That Terminator is probably on a 40mm base. Probably. But it could be zoomed out so the base is only 30mm on the screen because it was part of a unit photo. Or that's where the zoom on the camera was from the last photo. Meanwhile, the Abaddon base is probably officially a 60mm base. But it could be zoomed in for selling the detail on the sculpt so it's 90 mm across. This would result in an image of a Terminator 75% of it's actual height being compared to Abaddon 150% of his actual height. Playing with zoom is an easy way to throw this off, playing with distance to lens and camera angle is how Peter Jackson make Elijah Wood look like a hobbit.

A: They're obviously the stock GW images, and thus on their respective stock bases. The author of the image presumably measured their ratios to do the composite, as accuracy was what they were after.

B: I'm not mad. I'm shocked you couldn't see the obvious. There are clear cutout lines in the image and you're talking about one model being "behind" the other.

B2: Given the above, I'm less shocked that you cant tell these are GW stock images of the models, straight off their website, and thus are making claims about "unknown quantities".

C: If you don't accept the image, post your own as I've invited multiple times. Aka, Put up or shut up.