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Any Forgeworld knights outshining the rest after the update? I was excited to use the Atropos but now not so much :/

Kinda want a Lancer.

Hits like a tonne of bricks, and is pretty speedy with a 14” move.

However, it’s overall efficiency is dependant on your opponent having big tanks, characters or super heavies for it to go poke.

I have a game against a Prophyron this weekend, so this nerf came just in time! It can still get a 2+ 4++ with relics and WL traits, but it wont be worse than a Castellan.

Also fairly tickled by the Moirax War Dogs.

Are they objectively better than the regular ones? I dunno. I’m not really a hobby number cruncher. But some of their weapons are quite appealing, and could allow them, tactically, to straddle the gap between the Codex War Dogs, where we’ve a choice of Anti-Infantry or Anti-Tank. Could prove useful if points are tight, and you don’t want to overly specialise?


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Lightning Locks in particular hold promise. More reliable shots wise than the Autocannon, but don’t hit quite as hard.

If you’re expecting infantry, they’re a fairly reasonable alternative to fielding a Big Knight with twin Gatling Cannon? Even slightly flukey rolling could see lots and lots of hits, ideal for flattening hordes of Boyz and Bugs.


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Torn on the Graviton Pulsar though.

In theory, it’s a decent answer if you expect to fight say, Speed Freeks, with lots of light vehicles. But only D6 shots, and S6, I’m not seeing it as being quite as tasty as the others.

Though I suppose if your opponents regularly field Tau Battlesuits or Terminator equivalents, those extra wounds and - 3 to saves is fairly appealing? Just don’t know how common such units crop up.

I played my first pure Chaos Knights game this evening against SW, playing Maelstrom of War: Deadlock...

The only thing I changed from the list I posted earlier was that I took the Aura of Terror warlord trait instead of the Warp-Haunted Hull (because my opponent had no psykers).

It was quite a one-sided game, with the Infernal Household taking it 12VP to 3VP when the False Emperor's wolves conceded at the end of battle round 5.

I'm loving the Tzeentchian Pyrothrone artefact, and that warlord trait saved me from the thunder hammers more than once!

Is the ‘surprise Smite’ proving effective overall then?

I’m far, far behind the game knowledge curve, so apologies if I’ve just asked a ‘duh’ question.

Well it's your only psychic ability if you run a pure knights list so it certainly helps - particularly against SW with 3++ storm shields...

So the new wardogs look like they clock in a bit cheaper (could be 155 pts?)? That's exciting, also the ability to have stronger antihorde looks great - in my particular list I was hungry for some anti-horde and the lighting locks fit the bill. Also opens up points for changing my TSons sorc to a Sorc in Termi with a familiar which isn't too shabby either...

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Also fairly tickled by the Moirax War Dogs.

Are they objectively better than the regular ones? I dunno. I’m not really a hobby number cruncher. But some of their weapons are quite appealing, and could allow them, tactically, to straddle the gap between the Codex War Dogs, where we’ve a choice of Anti-Infantry or Anti-Tank. Could prove useful if points are tight, and you don’t want to overly specialise?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Lightning Locks in particular hold promise. More reliable shots wise than the Autocannon, but don’t hit quite as hard.

If you’re expecting infantry, they’re a fairly reasonable alternative to fielding a Big Knight with twin Gatling Cannon? Even slightly flukey rolling could see lots and lots of hits, ideal for flattening hordes of Boyz and Bugs.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Torn on the Graviton Pulsar though.

In theory, it’s a decent answer if you expect to fight say, Speed Freeks, with lots of light vehicles. But only D6 shots, and S6, I’m not seeing it as being quite as tasty as the others.

Though I suppose if your opponents regularly field Tau Battlesuits or Terminator equivalents, those extra wounds and - 3 to saves is fairly appealing? Just don’t know how common such units crop up.

Agree about the Lightning lock. I really like the sound of running a pair of duel lightning lock wardogs to fill out an infernal detachment. The problem with the auto cannons is they are ok at killing infantry or big stuff, but are never great in either scenario. With the additional hits, a duel lightning lock wardog has the average equivalent of 15 shots on a BS 3+ (as 3 shots here equal 2 hits what you’re most like to get from additional hits). That’s 7 more shots then the average autocannon result of 8, nearly double the shots. You even get better 1 better AP to boot, helping out against units like fire warriors, guardsman, stuff in cover, genestealer cult anything, etc. So while these guys are weaker against big models, it doesn’t matter because you won’t be targeting them. Finally let’s not forgot this loadout is cheaper as well making it a much better choice to the “Helverin” IMO.

So the faq made dreadblades more tactical, made the chaos rift more fair (come on, no matter the cast it was a perials was a bit much, who can deny that?), and confirmed the relics still allow exploding 6's with the rampager.

Did i miss anything?

I would say that chaos rift went from being "situational, but pretty good" to "probably won't ever be used". Your odds of rolling doubles on 2d6 is less than 17%. 17% is about 1 in 6 psychic powers. Even assuming your enemy cast 6 psychic powers within range (uncommon) I can't imagine wanting to spend CP to deal 1d3 damage to an enemy unit my opponent picked.

Azuza001 wrote:
So the faq made dreadblades more tactical, made the chaos rift more fair (come on, no matter the cast it was a perials was a bit much, who can deny that?)

It was actual pretty useless even when it was any dice rolls. I used it in a few games and always regretted it. It basically stops a single model from casting a power twice if they have 4 wounds or less and don't have FNP. All your opponent has to do to counter it is move their caster 12" away from your knights (surprisingly easy). Or cast one power with each psycher. The problem with it is that it doesn't actually stop the 1 power they really need to get off. Sure if you activate it two turns in a row then it might be useful if you can keep your opponent in the effect. But then we are talking 4cp. Even when I combined it with Daemonic possession 1CP when a character perils it takes 2d3 mortal wounds it just cost more CP an still doesn't reliably stop a power going off unless it kills the caster.

In short it doesn't stop the power you want stop going off unless the caster is within 12" of one of your knights and has 2 or less wounds remaining (so has been wounded or has been affected by perils already). For it to be effective you need to have it active over multiple turns and we have better things to spend the CP on. All this was when it worked on any roll, now I don't see myself ever using it.

drakerocket wrote:
I would say that chaos rift went from being "situational, but pretty good" to "probably won't ever be used". Your odds of rolling doubles on 2d6 is less than 17%. 17% is about 1 in 6 psychic powers. Even assuming your enemy cast 6 psychic powers within range (uncommon) I can't imagine wanting to spend CP to deal 1d3 damage to an enemy unit my opponent picked.

Yeah why bother? Just summon an infernal enrapturess and get a 24" all doubles are perils for the rest of the game for 80pts.

If someone were bit insane and kitbash -hungry?
How would you set up an all renegade amiriger army?

Rift nerf was unnecessary.
Now Infernal Knights have become even more questionable.
That stratagem really mattered on War Dogs.
You could advance them and turn rift on, making it really hard to cast something on your bigger knights and support frontlines if enemy is futslogging.

Combination with Daemons for 2d3 mw perils could really prevent enemy from certain casts or affect his positioning on the table.

Now it is just “enraptureness for one phase with huge cp cost”.
Useless...

 Fan67 wrote:
Rift nerf was unnecessary.
Now Infernal Knights have become even more questionable.
That stratagem really mattered on War Dogs.
You could advance them and turn rift on, making it really hard to cast something on your bigger knights and support frontlines if enemy is futslogging.

Combination with Daemons for 2d3 mw perils could really prevent enemy from certain casts or affect his positioning on the table.

Now it is just “enraptureness for one phase with huge cp cost”.
Useless...

To be fair, it would have been potentially game breaking in a lot of cases though. So many psykers would have the potential of just dying instantly on their first cast, and others also have the possibility when using the daemon strat as well. Most psykers only have 2-4 wounds.

That said, making it only work on doubles and leaving it at 2CP means it’ll likely never ever get used, except maybe vs Grey Knights due to their 12” smite spam range.

Can someone link to information of these so called new wardogs? I can't find anything.

 BoomWolf wrote:
Can someone link to information of these so called new wardogs? I can't find anything.

Knight Moirax:

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-GB/Knight-Moirax-with-Lightning-Locks-2019

That's the laslock version of it.

Yea, just found the warhammer community post.

New knights seem interesting.
Not of value to me, as the new war dogs seems to be anti-infantry, and as TS I have plenty, but anti-tank is lacking.


Anyone found some gems in the FW knights so far? on a glance the "codex" knights seem kina better.

The Moirax strike me as really belonging in a pure Knights army.

See, as mentioned, they're largely geared toward squishing infantry, and the weapons each have their own niche (light, MEQ etc).

Me? I've ordered a Twin Lightning Lock one. And will probably get a second later in the month. They strike me as a far cheaper alternative to a twin Gatling Questoris chassis.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
The Moirax strike me as really belonging in a pure Knights army.

See, as mentioned, they're largely geared toward squishing infantry, and the weapons each have their own niche (light, MEQ etc).

Me? I've ordered a Twin Lightning Lock one. And will probably get a second later in the month. They strike me as a far cheaper alternative to a twin Gatling Questoris chassis.

Ayy pure knight armies will love them. Other armies that soup will not require them.

Not Online!!! wrote:
If someone were bit insane and kitbash -hungry?
How would you set up an all renegade amiriger army?

Iconoclast:
Super heavy
3 wardogs - 480

Super heavy
3 wardogs - 480

Super heavy
3 wardogs - 480

CSM - Supreme command
3 lord discordants - 480

about 1920, chuck a few meltas on a few of the wardogs.

CHARGE!

 Latro_ wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
If someone were bit insane and kitbash -hungry?
How would you set up an all renegade amiriger army?

Iconoclast:
Super heavy
3 wardogs - 480

Super heavy
3 wardogs - 480

Super heavy
3 wardogs - 480

CSM - Supreme command
3 lord discordants - 480

about 1920, chuck a few meltas on a few of the wardogs.

CHARGE!

But i love autocannons




Altough i love the concept, i think some of the laslocks ones might be decent in such a list.

drakerocket wrote:
I would say that chaos rift went from being "situational, but pretty good" to "probably won't ever be used". Your odds of rolling doubles on 2d6 is less than 17%. 17% is about 1 in 6 psychic powers. Even assuming your enemy cast 6 psychic powers within range (uncommon) I can't imagine wanting to spend CP to deal 1d3 damage to an enemy unit my opponent picked.

I couldn't agree more. Auto-perils within 12" was not broken. You probably weren't killing anything with that strat alone. What it did do, is promote some THOUGHT on both players part, in terms of where and when they could afford to cast, and where a caster had to be positioned. Frankly I think it was one of the better designed strats I've seen in a long time - it encouraged more tactical play and engagement from everyone.

Now we have an ability that we still pay 2CP for, and that has a very good chance of doing absolutely nothing at all.

I could have lived with it having a CP increase. But as it stands now it's essentially not worth using.

A 12" exclusion bubble for making casting hurt isn't broken at all, and is honestly probably still somewhat useless. I play Imperium, and often have tried to take a Culexus to shut down psykers... everyone just stays outside his 18" bubble. It's not like it's hard to do, especially when the best psykers have a 12" move or more.

 Horst wrote:
A 12" exclusion bubble for making casting hurt isn't broken at all, and is honestly probably still somewhat useless. I play Imperium, and often have tried to take a Culexus to shut down psykers... everyone just stays outside his 18" bubble. It's not like it's hard to do, especially when the best psykers have a 12" move or more.

Yeah especially T Sons with 24 inch range. I'd much rather see a Culexus than a Vindicare or even Eversor/Callidus when I playing psyker heavy list with some nurgle to tie up culexus.

Diabolic Rift wasn't nerfed in the errata from the designer's commentary - it was corrected. The original wording didn't read right and was clearly a mistake.

 Brother Castor wrote:
Diabolic Rift wasn't nerfed in the errata from the designer's commentary - it was corrected. The original wording didn't read right and was clearly a mistake.

Possibly so, but I don't think that changes the fact that as it was, it wasn't completely overpowered and played really quite interestingly. Now, it's not likely to see play at all. As Mushy points out above, you can pay 80 points for unit that will do that all day long, costs no CP, and has twice the bubble!

I preordered 2 of each of the new armigers! Can't wait to get them on the field and try them out.

I'll probably proxy different load outs with my friends to find which one I like the best.

The twin las lock build looks great to me...lots of dakka The twin conversion beamer option may be fun as well- though all the guns looks fun to try!

IMO Warp Rift got buffed in the FAQ,because now people won't be tempted to waste 2 CP using it and won't see it as a real stratagem when choosing between infernal and Iconoclast. The real importation part of FAQ was clarifying that you can indeed give 2 Dreadblades knights pacts and damnation's by using the relic. Very helpful since I have a tournament this weekend.

As far as forgeworld knights my favorite big knight is the Castigator. For 430 points you get a knight who gets 8 less shots then a double avenger knight, but also moves 14 inches, has 3 more wounds, and has a CC weapon that will actually be better than feet in many situations (Not all but many). Very good deal and a knight that I will be eager to try.

I am liking the Castigator too.