Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Arguing about WYSIWYG hive tyrants is pointless as the current plastic kit has wings in it, so if the person playing nids wants a winged hive tyrant (and lets be honest, who doesn't?) then they don't have an excuse.

Its easier to build it as a winged tyrant and say it DOESN'T have wings, before you get to that nonsense.

Making any argument for WYSIWYG is pointless. Because it isn't needed and has no mechanical effect. Build your deamon prince to look awesome. Give it the rules of whatever options you chose to purchase that game.

 Lance845 wrote:
Making any argument for WYSIWYG is pointless. Because it isn't needed and has no mechanical effect. Build your deamon prince to look awesome. Give it the rules of whatever options you chose to purchase that game.

Spoken by someone who has only played since 7th ed...

You'll find a lot of people are less receptive to lack of WYSIWYG IRL than hypothetical online internet arguments.

 Grimtuff wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:
Making any argument for WYSIWYG is pointless. Because it isn't needed and has no mechanical effect. Build your deamon prince to look awesome. Give it the rules of whatever options you chose to purchase that game.

Spoken by someone who has only played since 7th ed...

You'll find a lot of people are less receptive to lack of WYSIWYG IRL than hypothetical online internet arguments.

Yup. I started in 7th ed.

I have found that the people I play with follow the rules. Once, and only once, I ran into someone who demanded WYSIWYG (even though they themselves did not have it because it's actually impossible), and guess what? I didn't play toy soldiers with that person.

I am sorry that older editions did something to you that gives you a bug up your butt because somebody built their model completely legally and followed the rules.

 Grimtuff wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:
Making any argument for WYSIWYG is pointless. Because it isn't needed and has no mechanical effect. Build your deamon prince to look awesome. Give it the rules of whatever options you chose to purchase that game.

Spoken by someone who has only played since 7th ed...

You'll find a lot of people are less receptive to lack of WYSIWYG IRL than hypothetical online internet arguments.

It really depends on how egregious this is.

"All my Daemon Princes have wings" ain't a huge deal.
"Every special weapon is a plasma gun, and every heavy is a plasma cannon" also ain't.
"My red marines are Dark Angels and my blue ones are Iron Hands" is fine.

But...

"This meltagun is a flamer, and this heavy flamer is a plasma cannon. But on this squad, the meltagun is a plasma gun, and this random bolter guy has a plasma cannon. Oh, and my devastators have one heavy bolter, one missile launcher, and two lascannons, despite being modeled with all multimeltas," is not okay.
"These red marines are Blood Angels, these red marines are Dark Angels, and these red ones are Ultramarines," is also not okay.

It's mostly about how easy it is to remember. The first two examples are pretty easy-you're smart enough to play 40k, you're smart enough to remember those. The second set is crazy easy to get confused, though, by either player, and so wouldn't be acceptable, to me, at least.

True, but harping on with "wYsIwYg iS'nT a RuLE!" when there are "rules" that go beyond the mere rules of the game and into etiquette says a lot about the type of gamer I see.

Every half decent gamer I've met abides by it, consciously or not. It's just drilled into people as something that is "correct".

 Grimtuff wrote:
True, but harping on with "wYsIwYg iS'nT a RuLE!" when there are "rules" that go beyond the mere rules of the game and into etiquette says a lot about the type of gamer I see.

Every half decent gamer I've met abides by it, consciously or not. It's just drilled into people as something that is "correct".

In in respect the relevance of this topic, if you are looking to make a unique deamon prince then your model won't be next to a bunch of other models that look exactly like it and it's rules wont ever be confusing. You can pick whatever options you want off it's legal datasheet and then tell your opponent which options you picked before deployment.

There is nothing disrespectful, shady, or dishonest about that.

 Grimtuff wrote:
True, but harping on with "wYsIwYg iS'nT a RuLE!" when there are "rules" that go beyond the mere rules of the game and into etiquette says a lot about the type of gamer I see.

Every half decent gamer I've met abides by it, consciously or not. It's just drilled into people as something that is "correct".

Actually pretty much every game I play there will be one or two non-WYSIWYG things my opponent will explain at the beginning, and vice versa.

That is totally fine, so long as the list is easy to remember. That is basic etiquette in my opinion, being reasonable and flexible.

I personally don't mind not WYSIWYG just explain before hand but my preference for myself is if the Daemon has wings I have to have a model with wings lol I'm very anal about my own army

Didn't see if this was posted yet or not but if not creature caster makes the best Daemon prince models on the market IMO

https://creaturecaster.store/us/shop/

ballzonya wrote:Hello all, I am in need of some general advice I play chaos daemons and want to buy Daemon princes but don't like the current range they desperately need an update. Any ideas on what I can buy or even an easy convert to make a good one? I know creature caster is the way but anything in the age of Sigmar range that could work?

Any advice would be appreciated

The Salt Mine wrote:Didn't see if this was posted yet or not but if not creature caster makes the best Daemon prince models on the market IMO

https://creaturecaster.store/us/shop/

Ummm...

craggy wrote:

ballzonya wrote:Hello all, I am in need of some general advice I play chaos daemons and want to buy Daemon princes but don't like the current range they desperately need an update. Any ideas on what I can buy or even an easy convert to make a good one? I know creature caster is the way but anything in the age of Sigmar range that could work?

Any advice would be appreciated

The Salt Mine wrote:Didn't see if this was posted yet or not but if not creature caster makes the best Daemon prince models on the market IMO

https://creaturecaster.store/us/shop/

Ummm...

Some are, some aren’t. That King of War though is easily the best Bloodthirster on the market though.

 timetowaste85 wrote:

craggy wrote:

ballzonya wrote:Hello all, I am in need of some general advice I play chaos daemons and want to buy Daemon princes but don't like the current range they desperately need an update. Any ideas on what I can buy or even an easy convert to make a good one? I know creature caster is the way but anything in the age of Sigmar range that could work?

Any advice would be appreciated

The Salt Mine wrote:Didn't see if this was posted yet or not but if not creature caster makes the best Daemon prince models on the market IMO

https://creaturecaster.store/us/shop/

Ummm...

Some are, some aren’t. That King of War though is easily the best Bloodthirster on the market though.

Too human looking for my liking.

 Strg Alt wrote:
Nice Daemon Prince. But why Black Legion?

Hmm, but what about the Hive Tyrant? He can´t fly without wings and so every bug player has to go the extra mile and steal them from a fantasy dragon. My guess is that Nid players won´t be pleased, if they face a demon without wings or jet pack that wants to float around the board..

Thanx. He's not necessarily Black Legion though. I painted him like that as an homage to the old metal DP GW featured in publications for years, so black armour, red skin, gold trim.

I also wanted to give him elements of each 'god' so that I wasn't restricted to any particular Chaos alignment.
Red skin and gold trim can be Khorne
Corrosion on the armour can be Nurgle
Silver and purple blade, plus the purple shade to the skin can be Slaanesh
Glowing orange in the armour and general colorfulness can be Tzeentch.
He also has a magnet behind his head between his shoulders so that I can put an Icon for whatever alignment I pick if my opponent wants it shown:

My 2 cents on WYSIWYG: While no longer a rule, I do think you should give your opponent the courtesy of modeling things "correctly", however "correctly" is subjective, at least within the boundaries of the fluff. As I pointed out DAEMONS don't need wings to FLY because Warp entities don't obey the laws of physics. So my model doesn't need wings, but at the very least, I modeled it with the back vents (again because the old metal model had those) instead of the back spikes the kit comes with. THAT is how I show Flight on my model.

Nid players can 100% do the same kinds of things, with a bit of imagination. Want a Tyrant that can Fly, but for some reason don't want to model the wings? Say it has hollow carapace filled with Helium sacs and powerful leg muscles. Done. You could even cover the model with Adrenal glands in unusual places to represent the helium sacs.
But as many have pointed out, the current model comes with wings and they look great, so why not just use those.

The reason I mentioned not being REQUIRED to have actually wings in the first place was to help give the OP more ideas for alternative DPs. You don't have to be restricted by certain modeling aesthetics. That's my favorite part of this hobby: being able to be creative with your modeling choices.

-

 Galef wrote:

 Strg Alt wrote:
Nice Daemon Prince. But why Black Legion?

Hmm, but what about the Hive Tyrant? He can´t fly without wings and so every bug player has to go the extra mile and steal them from a fantasy dragon. My guess is that Nid players won´t be pleased, if they face a demon without wings or jet pack that wants to float around the board..

Thanx. He's not necessarily Black Legion though. I painted him like that as an homage to the old metal DP GW featured in publications for years, so black armour, red skin, gold trim.

I also wanted to give him elements of each 'god' so that I wasn't restricted to any particular Chaos alignment.
Red skin and gold trim can be Khorne
Corrosion on the armour can be Nurgle
Silver and purple blade, plus the purple shade to the skin can be Slaanesh
Glowing orange in the armour and general colorfulness can be Tzeentch.
He also has a magnet behind his head between his shoulders so that I can put an Icon for whatever alignment I pick if my opponent wants it shown:

Spoiler:

My 2 cents on WYSIWYG: While no longer a rule, I do think you should give your opponent the courtesy of modeling things "correctly", however "correctly" is subjective, at least within the boundaries of the fluff. As I pointed out DAEMONS don't need wings to FLY because Warp entities don't obey the laws of physics. So my model doesn't need wings, but at the very least, I modeled it with the back vents (again because the old metal model had those) instead of the back spikes the kit comes with. THAT is how I show Flight on my model.

Nid players can 100% do the same kinds of things, with a bit of imagination. Want a Tyrant that can Fly, but for some reason don't want to model the wings? Say it has hollow carapace filled with Helium sacs and powerful leg muscles. Done. You could even cover the model with Adrenal glands in unusual places to represent the helium sacs.
But as many have pointed out, the current model comes with wings and they look great, so why not just use those.

The reason I mentioned not being REQUIRED to have actually wings in the first place was to help give the OP more ideas for alternative DPs. You don't have to be restricted by certain modeling aesthetics. That's my favorite part of this hobby: being able to be creative with your modeling choices.

-

Nice daemons but tbh I can only see a Black Legion daemon. Here is a link to my 40K monsters:

https://ibb.co/album/nMS51F


People play the way they like and no amount of reasoning will change their view. A guy on the 9th Age forum does´t own a single mini but plays with regiments of coloured paper cutouts. They look really great but for my own taste this is simply not enough to enjoy the game.
For full immersion into the game a satisfying enforcement of WYSIWYG is for me required. Without it, I might as well use bottle caps. So what do I think about monsters who fly without wings? It just opens a can of worms. Here is an example why:

Duda A: "Hey, what are these guys doing with bolt pistols and chainswords?"
Dude B: "Those? They are assault marines.
Dude A: "But they don´t have jump packs!"
Dude B: "Nah, only narrow-minded people use jump packs on their models these days."
Dude A: "May I ask how they jump?"
Dude B: "Sure, pal. They use gravity belts.
Dude A: "GRAVITY BELTS?!"
Dude B: "Pal, just loosen up. You apparently don´t enjoy creative solutions. I will cancel our game right now and rather play against Dude C."

Been playing since 3rd. Wysiwyg is important to me but it shouldn't disrupt gaming unless the counts-as is taken to an extreme.

I currently use alpharius as my daemon prince. I share my list and go over it pregame. Never had one complaint.

Back in 3rd edition I made up a Thousand Sons army and wanted a "different" looking Daemon Prince. I wanted one that was large, but had limited mutations.

I ended up using an Inquisitor scale Chaos guy, with the left arm of an Ork Warboss, and mounted him on a giant disk of Tzeench I made from 2 60mm flying bases and the blades from the old-school dozer blade (using fleckstone paint to make it look like a disc of rock).

Too far away from my army to take a pic, but this is a stock pic of the model I'm talking about.

I'm planning on just using a AOS morghast for mine. I plan on replacing a fair amount of the bone textured parts of the legs with pistons and more mechanical bits.

Still undecided about the wings, but demon wings are easy to find.