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Wait it came from Valrak?

I don't know what this means

Deathwatch would have a big hole filled if they had access to the Executioner. Combine that with a Watch Captain with Dominus Aegis and Tome of Ectoclades, they could be reliable AT platforms.

Rulvek wrote:

Breton wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Martel732 wrote:

 Ishagu wrote:
And suddenly Veteran Intercessors have 4 attacks at AP-1
Or 40 shots at 30“ range with AP-2

These are just two basic implications if these prove to be true.

Must be nice to have vet intercessors in the first place.

All you have to do is pay 1CP for the ability to pay another 1CP per squad before the game, to spend 2CP+ during the game each time. In an Army likely to have two intercessor squads, and 8 CP.

Blood Angels can't have vet intercessors.

Which is yet another problem with having to split Marines up into increasingly speclaised and indulgent minidexes for some and one dex for other 996 including the other First Founding Chapters - its just stupid.

 Ishagu wrote:
Valrak just shared this rumour. He was sent the info.

"Marines will gain a rule included in the new Angel of Death rule, SM will gain +1A during the first fight phase or something like that. But that's not all, we have something like the Deathwatch Doctrine! At the start of each turn/round, we can choose one, and one of them is awesome, a bonus of -1 to AP in the shooting or fighting phase"

If it's like Deathwatch it will only work on Bolter-type weapons. Which is still a welcome addition, but not as impactful as just a blanket +1 AP would be.

BrianDavion wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
No, they wouldn't. But GW gonna GW. The same thing is affecting the executioner now.

I expect the executioner will be clarified swiftly eneugh. it'd be the first Primaris unit (well outside of victrix guard) that would be restricted otherwise and it seems an odd choice.

Especially since the Blood Angels for example can use the Executioner in Apocalypse.

The Newman wrote:

If it's like Deathwatch it will only work on Bolter-type weapons. Which is still a welcome addition, but not as impactful as just a blanket +1 AP would be.

Um...what? Both Mission Tactics (DW Chapter tactics) and Doctrines (strategems) apply to all weapons.

Sterling191 wrote:

The Newman wrote:

If it's like Deathwatch it will only work on Bolter-type weapons. Which is still a welcome addition, but not as impactful as just a blanket +1 AP would be.

Um...what? Both Mission Tactics (DW Chapter tactics) and Doctrines (strategems) apply to all weapons.

I think he's referring to SIA, but it's an odd reference to make in any case.

He’s talking about the rumored -1 AP.

I kinda feel like -1AP ability for all Marines would be a double edged sword.
While it would certainly make them more killy, since over half the playable factions are Marines, it would also punish them more too and exacerbate their durability issues.

AP is generally more effective against "elite" units that rely on better armour. IMO, a better option would be more attacks, not better AP

-

Lemondish wrote:

Sterling191 wrote:

The Newman wrote:

If it's like Deathwatch it will only work on Bolter-type weapons. Which is still a welcome addition, but not as impactful as just a blanket +1 AP would be.

Um...what? Both Mission Tactics (DW Chapter tactics) and Doctrines (strategems) apply to all weapons.

I think he's referring to SIA, but it's an odd reference to make in any case.

The Deathwatch AP bonus is on SIA, so it's not that odd of a leap to make. It's a better fit than their "I get bonuses vs troops / heavy support / elite / fast attack" abilities that have to be chosen before the game starts and require a strat to change.

The Newman wrote:


The Deathwatch AP bonus is on SIA, so it's not that odd of a leap to make. It's a better fit than their "I get bonuses vs troops / heavy support / elite / fast attack" abilities that have to be chosen before the game starts and require a strat to change.

Excepting of course that SIA is far more than just "you get more AP", but you know that. Frankly you could give SIA to all marines and it wouldnt do gak about the factions underlying issues.

Its a bad analogy in the context of a (highly suspect) rumored addition that supposedly works across more than a single weapon type, and functions in realms beyond the shooting phase.

 Galef wrote:
I kinda feel like -1AP ability for all Marines would be a double edged sword.
While it would certainly make them more killy, since over half the playable factions are Marines, it would also punish them more too and exacerbate their durability issues.

AP is generally more effective against "elite" units that rely on better armour. IMO, a better option would be more attacks, not better AP

This is certainly true. I hope that the other bonuses the can choose are something to increase their durability and something that helps against chaff. Not that I find it terribly likely that these rumours are true, they sound pretty wild.

 Galef wrote:
I kinda feel like -1AP ability for all Marines would be a double edged sword.
While it would certainly make them more killy, since over half the playable factions are Marines, it would also punish them more too and exacerbate their durability issues.

-

That would only be coming up in the mirror match though, so it cancels out. Mathematically the Marine vs Marine win percentage isn't relevant when figuring the faction's overall win rate. If this makes Marines better versus the rest of the field it will make their win rate better overall.

The Newman wrote:

 Galef wrote:
I kinda feel like -1AP ability for all Marines would be a double edged sword.
While it would certainly make them more killy, since over half the playable factions are Marines, it would also punish them more too and exacerbate their durability issues.

-

That would only be coming up in the mirror match though, so it cancels out. Mathematically the Marine vs Marine win percentage isn't relevant when figuring the faction's overall win rate. If this makes Marines better versus the rest of the field it will make their win rate better overall.

Winrates aren't everything though, people don't want to play rocket tag even if the odds are 50/50

Rulvek wrote:

Breton wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Martel732 wrote:

 Ishagu wrote:
And suddenly Veteran Intercessors have 4 attacks at AP-1
Or 40 shots at 30“ range with AP-2

These are just two basic implications if these prove to be true.

Must be nice to have vet intercessors in the first place.

All you have to do is pay 1CP for the ability to pay another 1CP per squad before the game, to spend 2CP+ during the game each time. In an Army likely to have two intercessor squads, and 8 CP.

Blood Angels can't have vet intercessors.

My sarcasm must not have translated over the internet. I'm of the opinion that in a normal game using anything like fluffy high "composition score" armies nobody can have Vet Intercessors. The CP cost of the specialist detachment is a wee bit prohibitive. However, reading the page, what makes you think BA can't use it? The Pick a Space Marines Detachment? Space Marines sometimes does and sometimes doesn't include BA/DA/SW. GW sadly wasn't smart enough to make SPACE MARINES a keyword for when they mean CODEX SPACE MARINES instead of ADEPTUS ASTARTES FORMERLY KNOWN AS Space Marines when even they are still using the Space Marine catch-all Descriptive label-not-keyword interchangably with the Adeptus Astartes catch-all Descriptive label-not-keyword.. I wouldn't blink if someone tried to make a BA/DA/etc unit with this stratagem set. At least not from a rules or fluff standpoint. I'd applaud if they were doing it with a full Primaris Successor Chapter. I'd blink pretty hard at anyone spending CP's on it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Stux wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
No, they wouldn't. But GW gonna GW. The same thing is affecting the executioner now.

I expect the executioner will be clarified swiftly eneugh. it'd be the first Primaris unit (well outside of victrix guard) that would be restricted otherwise and it seems an odd choice.

Centurions, Storm Talons, and Stormhawks would like a word with you...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Though for what it's worth I do expect everyone to get the Executioner.

Pardon me for laughing uncontrollably at how many people who tried to argue with me about this in the two weeks or so prior to release. And yeah, I'm surprised it isn't already FAQ'ed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Crimson wrote:


Who is this Valrak, and how reliable he is? To me this seems decently powerful. First round of combat is often decisive, so having an extra attack then is pretty significant. Also, constant AP bonus is a rather big deal; in fact all this seems too good to be true.

Also, this should probably be posted in the rumours section.

Valrak is an Imperial Fist player with a monetized? Youtube channel that runs "news", educational fluff, and hypothetical fluff videos i.e. he ran a Repulsor Executioner Video.. about the same time as the datasheet leaked, probably after because I think he had the leaked data sheet in it - and then I think he ran another one of an unboxing once it released. He runs Who is..... Videos especially for the Primarchs, and What if.... (Insert Primarch) returned next and I think another seris that was "instead of Guilliman" instead of "next". Between the youtube monetization, plus some in video advertising for a discount online retailer. Between that plus other advertising and kickbacks like offbrand giant resin models, I suspect the channel is mostly just a way to pay for plastic crack and keep him busy. As for reliability, He's not Elizabeth Cochran Seaman, but he gets enough traffic, I'd absolutely believe GW would plant a leak on him to get the word out.

Breton wrote:
However, reading the page, what makes you think BA can't use it? The Pick a Space Marines Detachment?

Yes, along with the FAQ that states...

Q: Is a Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Space Wolves or Deathwatch Detachment also a Space Marines Detachment?
A: No. As defined in Codex: Space Marines, a Space Marines Detachment is a Detachment that only includes units with one of the following Faction keywords:
<Chapter>, Ultramarines, Imperial Fists, Salamanders, White Scars, Raven Guard, Iron Hands, Crimson Fists or Black Templars.

Man, if ever there was a dumb design idea. Due to the paint on your armor, you are completely incapable of understanding how this predator shoots it's gun.

If this rumor proves true, I hope Grey Knights also get in on it. The extra attacks in combat would definitely be a boon for them (maybe people will run weapons other than falchions now).

Getting a free extra -1 AP on StormBolters would also be really cool, because we're almost forced to spend 2CP for Psybolt Ammunition every turn, and CP is not something Grey Knights are swimming in.

They could give GK 3 AP to their weapons and an extra 12" to their Smite, and they would still be a dumpster fire. There is nothing except a complete re-write of the GK book that can save them.

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Man, if ever there was a dumb design idea. Due to the paint on your armor, you are completely incapable of understanding how this predator shoots it's gun.

Well, that's what people who like these variant codices want. No consolidation, mah unique units!

 Crimson wrote:

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Man, if ever there was a dumb design idea. Due to the paint on your armor, you are completely incapable of understanding how this predator shoots it's gun.

Well, that's what people who like these variant codices want. No consolidation, mah unique units!

Vulkan doesn't understand how the Baal Pred works.

"Wait.....hold on....a tank that shoots fire? I don't understand that at all. Count me out."

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Man, if ever there was a dumb design idea. Due to the paint on your armor, you are completely incapable of understanding how this predator shoots it's gun.

Well, that's what people who like these variant codices want. No consolidation, mah unique units!

Vulkan doesn't understand how the Baal Pred works.

"Wait.....hold on....a tank that shoots fire? I don't understand that at all. Count me out."

Exactly. Some of this stuff needs to be available to everyone. Did you know that, for some God forsaken reason, NO Dark Angels or Blood Angels successor has had Centurions ever for no good reason?

 Stux wrote:

The Newman wrote:

 Galef wrote:
I kinda feel like -1AP ability for all Marines would be a double edged sword.
While it would certainly make them more killy, since over half the playable factions are Marines, it would also punish them more too and exacerbate their durability issues.

-

That would only be coming up in the mirror match though, so it cancels out. Mathematically the Marine vs Marine win percentage isn't relevant when figuring the faction's overall win rate. If this makes Marines better versus the rest of the field it will make their win rate better overall.

Winrates aren't everything though, people don't want to play rocket tag even if the odds are 50/50

LOL not necessarily true. In URT it was a pretty common and fun mode to do all rocket mode or instagib (basically 1 shotting lasers). Games were fast and it really is a great test of quickness and accuracy.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Exactly. Some of this stuff needs to be available to everyone. Did you know that, for some God forsaken reason, NO Dark Angels or Blood Angels successor has had Centurions ever for no good reason?

Perhaps they have some aesthetic standards.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Man, if ever there was a dumb design idea. Due to the paint on your armor, you are completely incapable of understanding how this predator shoots it's gun.

Well, that's what people who like these variant codices want. No consolidation, mah unique units!

Vulkan doesn't understand how the Baal Pred works.

"Wait.....hold on....a tank that shoots fire? I don't understand that at all. Count me out."

Exactly. Some of this stuff needs to be available to everyone. Did you know that, for some God forsaken reason, NO Dark Angels or Blood Angels successor has had Centurions ever for no good reason?

Yeah. It doesn't make business sense ether. It think its to make up for the fact that...codex compliant chapters don't get things like Sang guard, Black Knights, Death company, ect. Cause these "snowflake" chapters have historically been marines +1 since forever. It's only recently and due to the insane buffs from gman that "vanilla" marines are even in the mix. I am all for complete consolidation of marine armies. Just make 1 codex. You can even charge 100 bucks(quid for you english chaps) for it and have it be as thick as a dictionary. These armies share 95% of units and are distinguished by a paragraphs worth of special rules and 2 or 3 unit entries.

I think the Primaris line of Superbois was designed to unify the fluff. I mean, there are no special snowflake primaris units now.

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I think the Primaris line of Superbois was designed to unify the fluff. I mean, there are no special snowflake primaris units now.

Possibly. Though it could easily be a "not yet" kind of situation.

 Crimson wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Exactly. Some of this stuff needs to be available to everyone. Did you know that, for some God forsaken reason, NO Dark Angels or Blood Angels successor has had Centurions ever for no good reason?

Perhaps they have some aesthetic standards.

Cue someone popping up to defend Centurion aesthetics in 3 ... 2 ... oh wait, I'm here already.

Honestly everyone is entitled to their opinion but it bothers me just a bit how some subjective stuff gets stated like it's a self-evident fact around here (I know, I know, "welcome to the internet"). I happen to think Centurions are the best looking models GW has ever produced. I won't argue if you want to say the rules could suck a golf ball through a garden hose, but whether something looks good is entirely a matter of perspective.

The Newman wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Exactly. Some of this stuff needs to be available to everyone. Did you know that, for some God forsaken reason, NO Dark Angels or Blood Angels successor has had Centurions ever for no good reason?

Perhaps they have some aesthetic standards.

Cue someone popping up to defend Centurion aesthetics in 3 ... 2 ... oh wait, I'm here already.

Honestly everyone is entitled to their opinion but it bothers me just a bit how some subjective stuff gets stated like it's a self-evident fact around here (I know, I know, "welcome to the internet"). I happen to think Centurions are the best looking models GW has ever produced. I won't argue if you want to say the rules could suck a golf ball through a garden hose, but whether something looks good is entirely a matter of perspective.

They just got the "fun to hate" reputation because lots of SM players don't wanna buy new models - primaris get the same hate too. They are great models IMO. Funny you hear 0 complaints about the new oblitz models even though they are chaos cents now lol.