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Hmm, no i think it was legionaries with incubi inside fighting with bane knights. Both had ruies where if you remove a model that model could attack one last time before dying, but there was also the incubi spawning from the legio which out of activation could make a charge, something like that. It was mostly a mess of out of activation actions going on cascade one over the other.

Spoletta wrote:
Hmm, no i think it was legionaries with incubi inside fighting with bane knights. Both had ruies where if you remove a model that model could attack one last time before dying, but there was also the incubi spawning from the legio which out of activation could make a charge, something like that. It was mostly a mess of out of activation actions going on cascade one over the other.

The Bane Knights / Death March scenario came up in Mk I. It was exactly that sort of branching activation and the ruling to just remove both units and get on with the rest of the game applied to any two units with "if a model dies in this unit it spawns an attack" or "if this unit inflicts a casualty it spawns an attack". Nothing in Mk II could cause that scenario at first, I guess it crept back in with new releases. It never needed an errata though; the rules were clear, it was just a ridiculous exercise in bookkeeeping to resolve it properly.

Edit: This sort of thing wouldn't come up in 40k since attacks are resolved all at once at the unit level and there isn't an activation stack to worry about. The closest thing I can think of would be two units of Space Marines each with an Ancient in melee with each other, and that wouldn't be difficult to resolve.

Bharring wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Bharring wrote:
Or maybe people who are playing a rigidly dogmatic force with clear structure object to the injection of units that don't get close to fitting the dogma, have no use in their dogmatic doctrines, make no sense in their structure, and are nothing like army as is.

That's wildly different from "new oblitz", a unit that fits nicely into the dogma, doctrines, and structure of the army as is. In an army known specifically for not being rigidly dogmatic.

"New Oblitz" for Chaos Marines is nothing like Cents or Primaris for Loyalists.

The fluff certainly isn't a masterpiece, but it's a lot more nuanced than "Loyalists are shiny, CSM are bloody".

So basically "we don't like change and don't want anything new". Got it.

That's the attitude I take exception to.

"New Oblits"? Cool. Great change. Glad things like that happen.

"Cents"? Dumb. Stupid change. Stuff like that shouldn't happen.

So maybe, just maybe, complaints about some change but not other change isn't basically "we don't like change and don't want anything new".

The argument is about internal consistency. A change saying a highly unstructured and chaotic force has some demon-infused guys that don't fit the Loyalist structure or fluff is internally consistent. A change saying a highly structured and rigid force has some guys who fit nowhere in their dogma or doctrines is inconsistent.

Even in the post you quote, I am clearly supportive of "change" and something "new". And further contrast it with the "change" and something "new" that I don't like. So please actually read the post you reply to.

(All this is assuming you simply failed to read/understand my post, but it's entirely plausible that you're just flaming instead.)

Then what do they add? Any new vehicle wouldn't have existed before and wouldn't have fit the organization already laid out.

Complaints still would happen, like it or not, even if people liked the models. Quite honestly, Centurions don't even need much to look decent. Just avoiding the little flap things on the legs so it looks like they can move is already a 100% improvement.

So no successor issues for Blood Ravens because you know... kSons and all.

Bharring wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Bharring wrote:
Or maybe people who are playing a rigidly dogmatic force with clear structure object to the injection of units that don't get close to fitting the dogma, have no use in their dogmatic doctrines, make no sense in their structure, and are nothing like army as is.

That's wildly different from "new oblitz", a unit that fits nicely into the dogma, doctrines, and structure of the army as is. In an army known specifically for not being rigidly dogmatic.

"New Oblitz" for Chaos Marines is nothing like Cents or Primaris for Loyalists.

The fluff certainly isn't a masterpiece, but it's a lot more nuanced than "Loyalists are shiny, CSM are bloody".

So basically "we don't like change and don't want anything new". Got it.

That's the attitude I take exception to.

"New Oblits"? Cool. Great change. Glad things like that happen.

"Cents"? Dumb. Stupid change. Stuff like that shouldn't happen.

So maybe, just maybe, complaints about some change but not other change isn't basically "we don't like change and don't want anything new".

The argument is about internal consistency. A change saying a highly unstructured and chaotic force has some demon-infused guys that don't fit the Loyalist structure or fluff is internally consistent. A change saying a highly structured and rigid force has some guys who fit nowhere in their dogma or doctrines is inconsistent.

Even in the post you quote, I am clearly supportive of "change" and something "new". And further contrast it with the "change" and something "new" that I don't like. So please actually read the post you reply to.

(All this is assuming you simply failed to read/understand my post, but it's entirely plausible that you're just flaming instead.)

Then, as Slayer-fan asks, what exactly would they add? Furthermore, Centurions fit fairly werll within the doctrines of Space Marines, they're a support platform for devestator marines. How does this not support Marine Doctrines?

Cents are awesome. Exosquad FTW.

BrianDavion wrote:


Then, as Slayer-fan asks, what exactly would they add? Furthermore, Centurions fit fairly werll within the doctrines of Space Marines, they're a support platform for devestator marines. How does this not support Marine Doctrines?

Devastator Cents are not the only Cents. My issues with Cents were never about the model or the fluff. Well only incidentally about the fluff. 3/6 sub-pieces of a 100 Sub-Piece of a 1000 Main piece drive me batty. I build the 3/6 squads in 6 and usually take them in 5's so my eye doesn't twitch while playing. I never even blinked at the armored dude in an armored exoskeleton thing - I mean we already had Dreads. I never understood why only the near death marines were put into them. If there's an empty shell, wire someone in there temporarily.

Most of my issues are a rules problem.

Assault Cents are just bad:

Take three spots instead of 2 like Terminators in the units that even can transport them in the first place.
Can't Teleport so must transport or foot slog with a weapons loadout - Metla, Flamer, CCW - that screams mobility required.
Don't have an invuln.
Make the transport super juicy as a target.

Compared to Assault Terminators they suffer in almost every category.

Centurion Devs fare only slightly better.

The LC/HB Cents at least get double the shots of a Dev Marine (But not on a point per point basis) having double the guns- the Grav Amp Cent does not. Higher cost models need a higher Rate of Fire to offset their lower model count'edness.
They do not have an invuln to offset the eggs/basket dilema.
One TLLC/ML Dread is only 5 points more than one 2xLC/Cent ML Centurion - Edit to remove the T7'edness of the Dread, Cents have T5, which will only rarely matter compared to T7.
The fact that Cents don't suffer move and fire, but Dreads do is probably part of that points difference. And Ridiculous - but neither here nor there. Nor would I said that ability and 5 points is worth 5 wounds and 2 less than meaningful Toughness The difference between 5 and 7 is far less than the difference between 4 and 5, or 7 and 8.

assault centurions are a bit odd yeah, I can see them having a place in siege situations I suppose but yeah.

the squads of 3 thing annoys me too but it seems that GW is doubling down on squads of 3 over all. we first saw it with bikes, then centurions now we're seeing it with MOST specialist primaris squads

BrianDavion wrote:
assault centurions are a bit odd yeah, I can see them having a place in siege situations I suppose but yeah.

the squads of 3 thing annoys me too but it seems that GW is doubling down on squads of 3 over all. we first saw it with bikes, then centurions now we're seeing it with MOST specialist primaris squads

I don't mind the 3 (as much), it's the 3/6 - Bike Squads still had a route to 10. 3 + 2 or 3 + 5 + 2 (Attack Bike) or 3 + 3 + Ravenwing Attack Bike, + 2 Ravenwing Landspeeder. I was actually very fond of the Ravenwing Squadron. It was just so elegant getting to 10 that way.

Centurions wouldn't make it to the wall to lay the seige, whereas TH/SS Termies would be able to teleport right onto it and/or Roman Phalanx before their Storm Shield all the way up, for a lower cost.

BrianDavion wrote:

Bharring wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Bharring wrote:
Or maybe people who are playing a rigidly dogmatic force with clear structure object to the injection of units that don't get close to fitting the dogma, have no use in their dogmatic doctrines, make no sense in their structure, and are nothing like army as is.

That's wildly different from "new oblitz", a unit that fits nicely into the dogma, doctrines, and structure of the army as is. In an army known specifically for not being rigidly dogmatic.

"New Oblitz" for Chaos Marines is nothing like Cents or Primaris for Loyalists.

The fluff certainly isn't a masterpiece, but it's a lot more nuanced than "Loyalists are shiny, CSM are bloody".

So basically "we don't like change and don't want anything new". Got it.

That's the attitude I take exception to.

"New Oblits"? Cool. Great change. Glad things like that happen.

"Cents"? Dumb. Stupid change. Stuff like that shouldn't happen.

So maybe, just maybe, complaints about some change but not other change isn't basically "we don't like change and don't want anything new".

The argument is about internal consistency. A change saying a highly unstructured and chaotic force has some demon-infused guys that don't fit the Loyalist structure or fluff is internally consistent. A change saying a highly structured and rigid force has some guys who fit nowhere in their dogma or doctrines is inconsistent.

Even in the post you quote, I am clearly supportive of "change" and something "new". And further contrast it with the "change" and something "new" that I don't like. So please actually read the post you reply to.

(All this is assuming you simply failed to read/understand my post, but it's entirely plausible that you're just flaming instead.)

Then, as Slayer-fan asks, what exactly would they add? Furthermore, Centurions fit fairly werll within the doctrines of Space Marines, they're a support platform for devestator marines. How does this not support Marine Doctrines?

I figured I'd disengage, as I didn't accept Slayer's authenticity in asking. But since you asked:
Marines being about the Codex Astartes, their core was always Tacs/Devs/ASM (ASM could be on bikes, though). They're an infantry Marine shocktroop force - not a mainline force. They're the Angels of the Emperor, not his Shield or Hammer.

In that vein, any addition should fit that role. So something useful in that regard. They have some heavier super-numerary support elements as-is.
Dreads are relics, piloted by Marines too damaged to return to the field on their own power. Them not fitting in a boarding action or raid makes sense, as they're not the core of the force. Supernumerary relics.
Preds/Whirlwinds/etc are fire support from the armory. Sometimes you just need armored warfare. And they all share a chasis. Supernumerary support.
Termies are even heavier kit, wearing relics that are very limited in number. But TDA is very compact for what it is; it does add bulk, but adds a lot more heft than bulk.
Vets (Sternies and VV) are upkitted Marines.

Then we get to logistics.
Marines deploy by Thunderhawk, Pod, or StormRaven.
The Rhino chasis - almost all their vehicles - deploy by Thunderhawk.
Land Raiders also deploy by Thunderhawk.
Preds deploy by Pod or StormRaven.
Termies have a teleportarium.

How do you deploy Cents? I'm not talking rules, I'm talking doctrine/logistics. One Pod per Cent? Deploy unassembled and assemble on-site? Boarding actions?

One Pod per Cent seems silly. Why not just send a Deathwind. Or an entire Dev squad. Unassembled is laughable. Boarding actions are terrible for exosuits - they'd be useful if breaching a hanger, but useless for most corridors.

And then there's the firepower. A Cent has the firepower of 2-3 Devs, sure. That's a lot of firepower. Why not just mount that firepower on a Pred? You get better durability for cheaper, it already fits your doctrines (you already deploy tanks). The value of deploying a Marine is that they're a Marine - they'll punch an Ork in the face then shoot his buddy with their pistol. Or run through a breached corridor. A Cent trades all the flexibility and dexterity of a Marine for all the rigidity of a vehicle, while also trading all the mobility and stability of a vehicle for all the staticness of slow infantry. Basically, you're trading away the best of both worlds.

If the IoM needs the static firepower of a Cent, send in an IG HWT or three. They're cheaper, more numerous, and more adaptable. If the Marines need the heavy lifting, send in either a Dev squad or a solo Marine in a Pred. A single Dev might not be enough firepower, but a single Dev has 9 guys standing next to him.

As for what I would do, it'd probably have been more vehicles. Possibly Scout or Vet variants.

It used to be 3 Cents plus an HQ in a Pod so what's your point in terms of deployment?

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
It used to be 3 Cents plus an HQ in a Pod so what's your point in terms of deployment?

That 3 Cents don't physically fit in a Pod. Even with the standard "It's not really to scale" disclaimer. That they're not a well-structured unit in terms of bulk:ability. That they look like they were designed with no thought towards how they get on the field (or off of it).

I know the rules allowed 3 Cents in a Pod, but the rules allow a lot of wacky things. If you wanted that much firepower in a Drop Pod, there are much better ways to build such a unit.

What about the cents after they have dropped in? How do they travel around the warzone? They cant use the rhinos. Do they allways need to be deployed together with a land raider? But those are rare. They seem very clumsy after initial deployment.

Alot of the SM units apart from tacs, devs, assults, vehicles and fliers seem very unpractical. Terminators can at least teleport back to the ship right? But cents, dreadnoughts and primaris seem to have serious logistical issues

Gitdakka wrote:
What about the cents after they have dropped in? How do they travel around the warzone? They cant use the rhinos. Do they allways need to be deployed together with a land raider? But those are rare. They seem very clumsy after initial deployment.

Alot of the SM units apart from tacs, devs, assults, vehicles and fliers seem very unpractical. Terminators can at least teleport back to the ship right? But cents, dreadnoughts and primaris seem to have serious logistical issues

Dreads can be carried by Storm Ravens. I suppose an individual Cent could be carried the same way - but at that point, why not encase the Marine in a Dread?

Primaris are a whole new line, and they threw all this out when they rolled them in. Cents aren't as out-of-place in a Primaris Marine army. I've just assumed that replacement-everythings would come eventually.

Bharring wrote:

Gitdakka wrote:
What about the cents after they have dropped in? How do they travel around the warzone? They cant use the rhinos. Do they allways need to be deployed together with a land raider? But those are rare. They seem very clumsy after initial deployment.

Alot of the SM units apart from tacs, devs, assults, vehicles and fliers seem very unpractical. Terminators can at least teleport back to the ship right? But cents, dreadnoughts and primaris seem to have serious logistical issues

Dreads can be carried by Storm Ravens. I suppose an individual Cent could be carried the same way - but at that point, why not encase the Marine in a Dread?

Primaris are a whole new line, and they threw all this out when they rolled them in. Cents aren't as out-of-place in a Primaris Marine army. I've just assumed that replacement-everythings would come eventually.

A Stormraven can carry four Centurions. The "12 marines and one Dread, Termies and Jump packs count for 2, Cents count for 3" is dumb when it should be "20 marines, Termies and Jump Packs =2, Cents = 3, Dreads = 8" though.

(If you're talking about models not being to scale, Cents in a Storm Raven isn't any more egregious than Marines in a Rhino. 10 of them? Maybe given time and a hack saw.)

The Newman wrote:

Bharring wrote:

Gitdakka wrote:
What about the cents after they have dropped in? How do they travel around the warzone? They cant use the rhinos. Do they allways need to be deployed together with a land raider? But those are rare. They seem very clumsy after initial deployment.

Alot of the SM units apart from tacs, devs, assults, vehicles and fliers seem very unpractical. Terminators can at least teleport back to the ship right? But cents, dreadnoughts and primaris seem to have serious logistical issues

Dreads can be carried by Storm Ravens. I suppose an individual Cent could be carried the same way - but at that point, why not encase the Marine in a Dread?

Primaris are a whole new line, and they threw all this out when they rolled them in. Cents aren't as out-of-place in a Primaris Marine army. I've just assumed that replacement-everythings would come eventually.

A Stormraven can carry four Centurions. The "12 marines and one Dread, Termies and Jump packs count for 2, Cents count for 3" is dumb when it should be "20 marines, Termies and Jump Packs =2, Cents = 3, Dreads = 8" though.

(If you're talking about models not being to scale, Cents in a Storm Raven isn't any more egregious than Marines in a Rhino. 10 of them? Maybe given time and a hack saw.)

I always assumed the Dread was strapped underneath. So it wouldn't make sense to be able to swap that for regular Marine capacity.

Bharring wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
It used to be 3 Cents plus an HQ in a Pod so what's your point in terms of deployment?

That 3 Cents don't physically fit in a Pod. Even with the standard "It's not really to scale" disclaimer. That they're not a well-structured unit in terms of bulk:ability. That they look like they were designed with no thought towards how they get on the field (or off of it).

I know the rules allowed 3 Cents in a Pod, but the rules allow a lot of wacky things. If you wanted that much firepower in a Drop Pod, there are much better ways to build such a unit.

Into one Pod, no. The most you could do is Sternguard with 2 Heavy Weapons and a bunch of Combi-Weapons. 3 Assault Cents is 18 Bolters and either 6 Flamers or 6 Melta Guns. That's the variant that wants to bonk stuff over the head, too.

Also Marines don't really physically fit in a pod or Rhino either. I don't own a Repulsor but I'm willing to bet it's too cramped in there for all 10 Intercessors. Then there's the Stormraven and Assault Ram...
Not a good argument to use.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Gitdakka wrote:
What about the cents after they have dropped in? How do they travel around the warzone? They cant use the rhinos. Do they allways need to be deployed together with a land raider? But those are rare. They seem very clumsy after initial deployment.

Alot of the SM units apart from tacs, devs, assults, vehicles and fliers seem very unpractical. Terminators can at least teleport back to the ship right? But cents, dreadnoughts and primaris seem to have serious logistical issues

No more clumsy than Terminators going in a Land Raider for being a unit that teleports. Hell, most of the Marine stuff doesn't make sense for long term travel after deployment.

Bharring wrote:

Marines being about the Codex Astartes, their core was always Tacs/Devs/ASM (ASM could be on bikes, though). They're an infantry Marine shocktroop force - not a mainline force. They're the Angels of the Emperor, not his Shield or Hammer.

In that vein, any addition should fit that role. So something useful in that regard. They have some heavier super-numerary support elements as-is.
Dreads are relics, piloted by Marines too damaged to return to the field on their own power. Them not fitting in a boarding action or raid makes sense, as they're not the core of the force. Supernumerary relics.
Preds/Whirlwinds/etc are fire support from the armory. Sometimes you just need armored warfare. And they all share a chasis. Supernumerary support.
Termies are even heavier kit, wearing relics that are very limited in number. But TDA is very compact for what it is; it does add bulk, but adds a lot more heft than bulk.
Vets (Sternies and VV) are upkitted Marines.

Then we get to logistics.
Marines deploy by Thunderhawk, Pod, or StormRaven.
The Rhino chasis - almost all their vehicles - deploy by Thunderhawk.
Land Raiders also deploy by Thunderhawk.
Preds deploy by Pod or StormRaven.
Termies have a teleportarium.

How do you deploy Cents? I'm not talking rules, I'm talking doctrine/logistics. One Pod per Cent? Deploy unassembled and assemble on-site? Boarding actions?

One Pod per Cent seems silly. Why not just send a Deathwind. Or an entire Dev squad. Unassembled is laughable. Boarding actions are terrible for exosuits - they'd be useful if breaching a hanger, but useless for most corridors.

And then there's the firepower. A Cent has the firepower of 2-3 Devs, sure. That's a lot of firepower. Why not just mount that firepower on a Pred? You get better durability for cheaper, it already fits your doctrines (you already deploy tanks). The value of deploying a Marine is that they're a Marine - they'll punch an Ork in the face then shoot his buddy with their pistol. Or run through a breached corridor. A Cent trades all the flexibility and dexterity of a Marine for all the rigidity of a vehicle, while also trading all the mobility and stability of a vehicle for all the staticness of slow infantry. Basically, you're trading away the best of both worlds.

If the IoM needs the static firepower of a Cent, send in an IG HWT or three. They're cheaper, more numerous, and more adaptable. If the Marines need the heavy lifting, send in either a Dev squad or a solo Marine in a Pred. A single Dev might not be enough firepower, but a single Dev has 9 guys standing next to him.

As for what I would do, it'd probably have been more vehicles. Possibly Scout or Vet variants.

100% agree, thanks for posting this.

Imo Marines forces almost completely revolve around basic marines, and the apparatus to get them into battle. Centurions really don't fit that, even though they supposedly can fit in a Land Raider, and have fit 3 in a Drop Pod in prior editions. To me the bulk of the suits go too far and break immersion.

Plus, Dreadnoughts already existed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Also Marines don't really physically fit in a pod or Rhino either. I don't own a Repulsor but I'm willing to bet it's too cramped in there for all 10 Intercessors. Then there's the Stormraven and Assault Ram...
Not a good argument to use.

They fit "enough". The models aren't really to scale, yadda yadda. The Pod at least explains how Marines fit into it, and it's reasonably plausible.

Sooooooo the bulk of Centurions in a Pod broke immersion but Dreads somehow didn't?

I'm not buying that for a moment.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Sooooooo the bulk of Centurions in a Pod broke immersion but Dreads somehow didn't?

I'm not buying that for a moment.

What's so strange about not buying 3 Cents in a pod, but not having a problem with 1 model that's ~10% taller and ~20% wider?

You're also taking the "Takes three slots" mentality a bit easily. You're basically saying 3 Cents have the firepower of 2 kitted out Tac squads. But the idea that a Cent only takes 3x the space/logistics of a Tac Squad is silly.

First, look at dimensions. A Cent is about twice as tall, twice as wide, and twice as deep. That would mean it's roughly *8* times as bulky. So you'd get 1 Cent per 8 Marines. So those 3 Cents would bring less firepower than the 24 Marines they displace.

Second, if the transport space isn't specifically designed to carry the package, smaller packages fit more efficiently than larger ones. Which would mean you'd probably need 3 Pods or StormRavens to carry those 3 Cents.

Sure, the rules said that something more than 8 times as large only takes 3 times the transport space - but that doesn't make it reasonable.

Now, stick a single Cent in a Pod, and it'd fit. But if you're going to hook single Marines up to war machines, why not use Dreads?

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
It used to be 3 Cents plus an HQ in a Pod so what's your point in terms of deployment?

No it used to be Draigo, three Cents and a Conclave.

Bharring wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Sooooooo the bulk of Centurions in a Pod broke immersion but Dreads somehow didn't?

I'm not buying that for a moment.

What's so strange about not buying 3 Cents in a pod, but not having a problem with 1 model that's ~10% taller and ~20% wider?

You're also taking the "Takes three slots" mentality a bit easily. You're basically saying 3 Cents have the firepower of 2 kitted out Tac squads. But the idea that a Cent only takes 3x the space/logistics of a Tac Squad is silly.

First, look at dimensions. A Cent is about twice as tall, twice as wide, and twice as deep. That would mean it's roughly *8* times as bulky. So you'd get 1 Cent per 8 Marines. So those 3 Cents would bring less firepower than the 24 Marines they displace.

Second, if the transport space isn't specifically designed to carry the package, smaller packages fit more efficiently than larger ones. Which would mean you'd probably need 3 Pods or StormRavens to carry those 3 Cents.

Sure, the rules said that something more than 8 times as large only takes 3 times the transport space - but that doesn't make it reasonable.

Now, stick a single Cent in a Pod, and it'd fit. But if you're going to hook single Marines up to war machines, why not use Dreads?

You know what's strange? You do realize it was the standard Drop Pod being used for Dreads for the longest time, NOT the FW Dread Pod?

That 20% wider means it can't even get through the frickin door...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sir Fred wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
It used to be 3 Cents plus an HQ in a Pod so what's your point in terms of deployment?

No it used to be Draigo, three Cents and a Conclave.

I had recalled a few lists doing Pod Cents with a Librarian before but my memory could be a bit off.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Bharring wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Sooooooo the bulk of Centurions in a Pod broke immersion but Dreads somehow didn't?

I'm not buying that for a moment.

What's so strange about not buying 3 Cents in a pod, but not having a problem with 1 model that's ~10% taller and ~20% wider?

You're also taking the "Takes three slots" mentality a bit easily. You're basically saying 3 Cents have the firepower of 2 kitted out Tac squads. But the idea that a Cent only takes 3x the space/logistics of a Tac Squad is silly.

First, look at dimensions. A Cent is about twice as tall, twice as wide, and twice as deep. That would mean it's roughly *8* times as bulky. So you'd get 1 Cent per 8 Marines. So those 3 Cents would bring less firepower than the 24 Marines they displace.

Second, if the transport space isn't specifically designed to carry the package, smaller packages fit more efficiently than larger ones. Which would mean you'd probably need 3 Pods or StormRavens to carry those 3 Cents.

Sure, the rules said that something more than 8 times as large only takes 3 times the transport space - but that doesn't make it reasonable.

Now, stick a single Cent in a Pod, and it'd fit. But if you're going to hook single Marines up to war machines, why not use Dreads?

You know what's strange? You do realize it was the standard Drop Pod being used for Dreads for the longest time, NOT the FW Dread Pod?

Certainly.

That 20% wider means it can't even get through the frickin door...

There's a huge difference between a single model 20% wider, and three whole Centurion models. Sure, the Dread is a bit large, but not nearly as substantially oversized as the 3-man Cent squad.

Bharring wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Bharring wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Sooooooo the bulk of Centurions in a Pod broke immersion but Dreads somehow didn't?

I'm not buying that for a moment.

What's so strange about not buying 3 Cents in a pod, but not having a problem with 1 model that's ~10% taller and ~20% wider?

You're also taking the "Takes three slots" mentality a bit easily. You're basically saying 3 Cents have the firepower of 2 kitted out Tac squads. But the idea that a Cent only takes 3x the space/logistics of a Tac Squad is silly.

First, look at dimensions. A Cent is about twice as tall, twice as wide, and twice as deep. That would mean it's roughly *8* times as bulky. So you'd get 1 Cent per 8 Marines. So those 3 Cents would bring less firepower than the 24 Marines they displace.

Second, if the transport space isn't specifically designed to carry the package, smaller packages fit more efficiently than larger ones. Which would mean you'd probably need 3 Pods or StormRavens to carry those 3 Cents.

Sure, the rules said that something more than 8 times as large only takes 3 times the transport space - but that doesn't make it reasonable.

Now, stick a single Cent in a Pod, and it'd fit. But if you're going to hook single Marines up to war machines, why not use Dreads?

You know what's strange? You do realize it was the standard Drop Pod being used for Dreads for the longest time, NOT the FW Dread Pod?

Certainly.

That 20% wider means it can't even get through the frickin door...

There's a huge difference between a single model 20% wider, and three whole Centurion models. Sure, the Dread is a bit large, but not nearly as substantially oversized as the 3-man Cent squad.

So what seems more immersion breaking?
1. A giant robot that couldn't even walk into the Pod in the first place?
2. Three large ass Exosuits basically sardined in the Pod in an almost uncomfortable manner?

http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2008/11/29/6556_md-Dreadnought,%20Drop%20Pod,%20Space%20Marines.jpg

Looks like it's just a little too small for a Dread to stand tall in a Pod. As I said upthread, yes it's a little off, but within reason.

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/File:Space_Marine_armour_Size_Comparison.jpg

On the other hand, 3 guys each almost as big as a Dread huddling up where a Dread barely fits? Each Cent takes about as much to transport as *10* marines. Nowhere close to the 3-to-1 margin you're harping on.

This is easy.

What looks like it takes more volume/floor space. 1 Boxnaught, or 3 Centurions?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

So what seems more immersion breaking?
1. A giant robot that couldn't even walk into the Pod in the first place?
2. Three large ass Exosuits basically sardined in the Pod in an almost uncomfortable manner?

The answer is 2, because each model of option 2 is about as big as the single model in option 1.

Bharring wrote:
http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2008/11/29/6556_md-Dreadnought,%20Drop%20Pod,%20Space%20Marines.jpg

Looks like it's just a little too small for a Dread to stand tall in a Pod. As I said upthread, yes it's a little off, but within reason.

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/File:Space_Marine_armour_Size_Comparison.jpg

On the other hand, 3 guys each almost as big as a Dread huddling up where a Dread barely fits? Each Cent takes about as much to transport as *10* marines. Nowhere close to the 3-to-1 margin you're harping on.

The Centurion is nowhere as wide or long though.

Let me see if I can find a comparision.

Oh, wow, you quoted someone who posted a link to a comparision already! So I'll just repost that:

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/4/41/Space_Marine_armour_Size_Comparison.jpg

It's almost as if you don't even read the posts you respond to.

The Dread is a bit wider, but only by ~20%. It's only a little taller, and not much longer. The base is, but the Dread is actually fairly compact, depth-wise. Especially compared to a Cent.

I literally clicked on the picture.

That dread build looks like its arms are a little more spaced than normal, too. And theres always the possibility of a bit of lens distortion. It looks strangely wide, and I don't think thats just the exclusion of the auto launchers.