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BrianDavion wrote:

Has anyone ever counted the number of Harness stations there are in a Pod? Never mind how many of what will physically fit, How many spots are modeled.

there's ten harness stations.

Whoops, I miscounted the pylons. There's 5, not 4. My bad.

Breton wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

Has anyone ever counted the number of Harness stations there are in a Pod? Never mind how many of what will physically fit, How many spots are modeled.

there's ten harness stations.

Whoops, I miscounted the pylons. There's 5, not 4. My bad.

NP I had a droppod close by... covered in dust.

Breton wrote:

Bharring wrote:


I figured I'd disengage, as I didn't accept Slayer's authenticity in asking. But since you asked:
Marines being about the Codex Astartes, their core was always Tacs/Devs/ASM (ASM could be on bikes, though). They're an infantry Marine shocktroop force - not a mainline force. They're the Angels of the Emperor, not his Shield or Hammer.

Yes they were. The Imperial Fists were his shield on Terra. The Iron Warriors were the hammer he smashed countless fortress worlds with. The Dark Angels being the First Legion had to perform all the roles and had 6 wings to do it with.

Legions, yes. Chapters, no. In the 40k era, the IG are the backbone, with the Astartes being the "Angels of the Emperor". Shock troops.

Cents are little different than a temporary Dreadnought armor. Dreads are part of their core too.

But then we're stuck with where Cents sit. Are they supposed to be near-dread-level heavy? If so, you're just duplicating Dreads. More tactical dreads? Recall that Termie Armor is formally "Tactical Dreadnaught Armor". And from what I'm seeing, they look to only be marginally smaller than Dreads. So why not mount it all on a Dread frame and put a Marine in there?

You want to argue they suck, I'll probably agree with you. You want to argue you just don't like them, more power to you.

This. All day long. We should all agree with this.

You want to try and argue they're not supported in the fluff when nearly anything can/is supported by the fluff, you're just going to look silly.

Everybody has their "internal consistency" gauges. And they vary wildly. I suppose I'm a bit hung up on this part. A large part of it was the abandonment of much of what I liked about Marines. And the upscaling of killiness. Things like "Lets just make Marines, but bigger. And better". Or "Crisis Suits? Marines should have them too." Or "Why have specialists in squads with regular squaddies? Lets just put all that firepower into each model!". And now they've made Marines, but bigger and better. And given Marines the Falcon Chasis, but bigger and better. And changed swapped out Marine specialists with just having the same weapon on every dood in the squad in new units.

So I picked a hill to die on. That doesn't make me wrong. Doesn't make my complaints invalid. But does make them unimportant. I recognize and accept your point.

ASM were/are the pilots for most of the Astartes vehicles. The fluff used? to be that the Reserve Company ASM would pilot the vehicles for the battle companies.

I always assumed that either could be the truth, depending on the chapter/company/conditions. But to further enforce your point, consider Autarch fluff. There's still canon fluff that says they are former Exarchs, that then left their path and studied other Aspects. Whereas Exarchs cannot - phsyically or mentally, in any way, ever - leave their path. Being lost on their path is what actually defines being an Exarch. Sometimes, GW fluff is just dumb and contradictory. I bring this up tos how agreement with that thesis.

Bharring wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Sooooooo the bulk of Centurions in a Pod broke immersion but Dreads somehow didn't?

I'm not buying that for a moment.

What's so strange about not buying 3 Cents in a pod, but not having a problem with 1 model that's ~10% taller and ~20% wider?

for starters claiming the model is only 10% taller and 20% wider.

Yeah, I lowballed there. But the model is nowhere close to 50% taller, 50% wider, *and* 50% deeper - which is roughly the size difference needed to make sense (technically ~1.44x in each direction). And is clearly more than double the L/W/H of a Marine.

The underlying point is that GW did some fun and reasonably consistent stuff with deployment logistics with Marines. Between Thunderhawks, Pods, and StormRavens, it makes a lot of sense. Cents don't fit into any of them reasonably. The closest fit is they'd be able to take the Dread's spot, but only at 1-for-1, not 3-for-1. At which point, why not bring a Dread?

Bharring wrote:

I suppose barrel range might make a projectile actually go further, but the barrel range's impact on range isn't so much how far the bullet goes, but how accurate it is at that distance. Sure, it's got a rocket motor built in, but going fast doesn't help if you're going in the wrong direction...
.

Only to a certain point. You're dealing with bullet shape - Spitzer, Boat Tail, Round, etc, rifling twist - the grooves that spin the bullet like a spiraling football, and the speed leaving the barrel (which has to match the rifling twist for stable flight) as the primary affects on accuracy. The gas from combustion propels the projectile, and you need the barrel to keep the gas compressed behind the projectile else it expands in all directions and the projectile just jumps like a tiddly wink. If you toss some ammunition into an open fire it'll go off like firecrackers (eventually, if the fire is hot enough) but it won't actually "shoot" anyone through their firefighting gear - There's a video on YouTube that'll make you cry if you shoot as a hobby. The effect of a longer barrel (after that certain point) on accuracy isn't about the chemical/physical reaction at all. It's about the distance between the front sight and the rear sight. The further apart they are, the less human error can be introduced. Put the index finger of each hand up next to each other and draw a line over the top of them. The close they are the more than line covers as you shift your head just a little bit. The further apart the "thinner" that line gets.

Thank you for that. There's a lot of details in your post I didn't specifically know.

As I posted upthread, firing a shell with just a firing mechanism would "fire" it, but it'd be more a grenade than a bullet. Although I'd expect some directionality from the shape of the shell casing, there wouldn't be much. As we've both implied, explosive forces expand in all directions. The weapon system (typically gun barrel) contains that force and directs it. As for force without a barrel, forces decrease by the cube of distance - as they spread out by volume. And the -3rd power is *huge*. Not surprising firefighting gear can stop a bullet at short distances.

As for barrel length, I had been taught that that's why Carbines (mostly talking old school, such as Dragoons) would have less accuracy with the same rounds as standard long arms. But what you bring up would certainly explain why that would appear true even if not. Probably worth more reading on my part.

Long story short, the gun/barrel is a very important part of the weapon system. The munition alone - even if rocket-propelled - isn't an effective weapon.

See equating Centurions to Crisis Suits is part of your problem. One is clearly meant to be a wall/fire support and the other is meant to be mobile and pick off weaker targets.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
See equating Centurions to Crisis Suits is part of your problem. One is clearly meant to be a wall/fire support and the other is meant to be mobile and pick off weaker targets.

Assuming any likening between two things is the same as equating them is part of your problem.

One is a large, powerful exosuit in a tech-advanced faction, piloted by an individual soldier. That packs a blisterlingly high amount of dakka - comparable to an entire squad of said soldiers. And a great deal of survivability.

So does the other.

The Broadside "Battle Suit" is more similar in tactical role, but the Crisis is the most iconic "Battle Suit".

Bharring wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
See equating Centurions to Crisis Suits is part of your problem. One is clearly meant to be a wall/fire support and the other is meant to be mobile and pick off weaker targets.

Assuming any likening between two things is the same as equating them is part of your problem.

One is a large, powerful exosuit in a tech-advanced faction, piloted by an individual soldier. That packs a blisterlingly high amount of dakka - comparable to an entire squad of said soldiers. And a great deal of survivability.

So does the other.

The Broadside "Battle Suit" is more similar in tactical role, but the Crisis is the most iconic "Battle Suit".

Great deal of survivability? Blistering firepower?
Did you read the Crisis suit entry even once? Genuinely curious.

No, I just glued random bits on mine and put them on the table. Moved them how I saw fit and just rolled random dice and claimed certain models are removed.

For an individual T'au soldier, 3 Burst Cannons or Fusion Blasters is "blistering firepower". For a GEQ, Crisis are a "Great deal of survivability".

Sure, an Orca or Warlord Titan dwarves them in every regard, but that's just scale-jumping.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Bharring wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
See equating Centurions to Crisis Suits is part of your problem. One is clearly meant to be a wall/fire support and the other is meant to be mobile and pick off weaker targets.

Assuming any likening between two things is the same as equating them is part of your problem.

One is a large, powerful exosuit in a tech-advanced faction, piloted by an individual soldier. That packs a blisterlingly high amount of dakka - comparable to an entire squad of said soldiers. And a great deal of survivability.

So does the other.

The Broadside "Battle Suit" is more similar in tactical role, but the Crisis is the most iconic "Battle Suit".

Great deal of survivability? Blistering firepower?
Did you read the Crisis suit entry even once? Genuinely curious.

they have 3+ armor 3 wounds a toughness of 5 and can mount up to 3 infantry weapons, compared to a Tau Firewarrior, with a toughness of 3, 1 wound and a 4+ save, they do indeed have greatly increased survivability and impressive firepower. not exactly "as much as a squad on a single trooper" but it's damn close. give a crisis suit a trio of plasma rifles and yeah you've got nearly as much firepower as a 5 man fire warrior squad. the armor and toughness proably mathamaticly make it almost as durable too.

BrianDavion wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Bharring wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
See equating Centurions to Crisis Suits is part of your problem. One is clearly meant to be a wall/fire support and the other is meant to be mobile and pick off weaker targets.

Assuming any likening between two things is the same as equating them is part of your problem.

One is a large, powerful exosuit in a tech-advanced faction, piloted by an individual soldier. That packs a blisterlingly high amount of dakka - comparable to an entire squad of said soldiers. And a great deal of survivability.

So does the other.

The Broadside "Battle Suit" is more similar in tactical role, but the Crisis is the most iconic "Battle Suit".

Great deal of survivability? Blistering firepower?
Did you read the Crisis suit entry even once? Genuinely curious.

they have 3+ armor 3 wounds a toughness of 5 and can mount up to 3 infantry weapons, compared to a Tau Firewarrior, with a toughness of 3, 1 wound and a 4+ save, they do indeed have greatly increased survivability and impressive firepower. not exactly "as much as a squad on a single trooper" but it's damn close. give a crisis suit a trio of plasma rifles and yeah you've got nearly as much firepower as a 5 man fire warrior squad. the armor and toughness proably mathamaticly make it almost as durable too.

Damn close? How much do you think a Crisis Suit costs with the cheapest options?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Bharring wrote:
No, I just glued random bits on mine and put them on the table. Moved them how I saw fit and just rolled random dice and claimed certain models are removed.

For an individual T'au soldier, 3 Burst Cannons or Fusion Blasters is "blistering firepower". For a GEQ, Crisis are a "Great deal of survivability".

Sure, an Orca or Warlord Titan dwarves them in every regard, but that's just scale-jumping.

Seeing your argument for Deathwing being it's own entry in another thread I wouldn't exactly be shocked if you did this.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Bharring wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
See equating Centurions to Crisis Suits is part of your problem. One is clearly meant to be a wall/fire support and the other is meant to be mobile and pick off weaker targets.

Assuming any likening between two things is the same as equating them is part of your problem.

One is a large, powerful exosuit in a tech-advanced faction, piloted by an individual soldier. That packs a blisterlingly high amount of dakka - comparable to an entire squad of said soldiers. And a great deal of survivability.

So does the other.

The Broadside "Battle Suit" is more similar in tactical role, but the Crisis is the most iconic "Battle Suit".

Great deal of survivability? Blistering firepower?
Did you read the Crisis suit entry even once? Genuinely curious.

they have 3+ armor 3 wounds a toughness of 5 and can mount up to 3 infantry weapons, compared to a Tau Firewarrior, with a toughness of 3, 1 wound and a 4+ save, they do indeed have greatly increased survivability and impressive firepower. not exactly "as much as a squad on a single trooper" but it's damn close. give a crisis suit a trio of plasma rifles and yeah you've got nearly as much firepower as a 5 man fire warrior squad. the armor and toughness proably mathamaticly make it almost as durable too.

Damn close? How much do you think a Crisis Suit costs with the cheapest options?

What does costs have to do with whether a single Crisis Suit has increased survivability or firepower *explicitly per model*?

As for how close it is to "as much as a squad on a single trooper", I think a 3-Burst Cannon Crisis Suit having 12 shots is close enough to a 6-man Carbine Squad's 12 shots to be "damn close". I mean, the difference between 12 S5AP0 18" shots and 12 S5AP0 18" shots is very small...

Bharring wrote:
No, I just glued random bits on mine and put them on the table. Moved them how I saw fit and just rolled random dice and claimed certain models are removed.

For an individual T'au soldier, 3 Burst Cannons or Fusion Blasters is "blistering firepower". For a GEQ, Crisis are a "Great deal of survivability".

Sure, an Orca or Warlord Titan dwarves them in every regard, but that's just scale-jumping.

Seeing your argument for Deathwing being it's own entry in another thread I wouldn't exactly be shocked if you did this.

If you can't see a difference between "any reason whatsoever that isn't 100% based on statistical efficiency" and "completely random", then why don't you just play chess or flip-a-coin? At the very least, please stop being so condescending and hostile towards those who recognize the possibility of value in lore, asethetics, taste, or flavor.

Centurions are cool, as they have ED209 toes, end of story. Anything else is just needless infighting.

That and space wolves kick all the butts and so many butts we have butts on back order, as they've all been kicked already so we're waiting for more to arrive and until they do we still have plenty of gum. That is all.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Bharring wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
See equating Centurions to Crisis Suits is part of your problem. One is clearly meant to be a wall/fire support and the other is meant to be mobile and pick off weaker targets.

Assuming any likening between two things is the same as equating them is part of your problem.

One is a large, powerful exosuit in a tech-advanced faction, piloted by an individual soldier. That packs a blisterlingly high amount of dakka - comparable to an entire squad of said soldiers. And a great deal of survivability.

So does the other.

The Broadside "Battle Suit" is more similar in tactical role, but the Crisis is the most iconic "Battle Suit".

Great deal of survivability? Blistering firepower?
Did you read the Crisis suit entry even once? Genuinely curious.

they have 3+ armor 3 wounds a toughness of 5 and can mount up to 3 infantry weapons, compared to a Tau Firewarrior, with a toughness of 3, 1 wound and a 4+ save, they do indeed have greatly increased survivability and impressive firepower. not exactly "as much as a squad on a single trooper" but it's damn close. give a crisis suit a trio of plasma rifles and yeah you've got nearly as much firepower as a 5 man fire warrior squad. the armor and toughness proably mathamaticly make it almost as durable too.

Damn close? How much do you think a Crisis Suit costs with the cheapest options?

... who cares.

we're talking theme of the unit, not points cost. points cost is an artifical balancing mechanic that has no place within discussing the theme and lore of a unit.

Bharring wrote:

Breton wrote:

Bharring wrote:


I figured I'd disengage, as I didn't accept Slayer's authenticity in asking. But since you asked:
Marines being about the Codex Astartes, their core was always Tacs/Devs/ASM (ASM could be on bikes, though). They're an infantry Marine shocktroop force - not a mainline force. They're the Angels of the Emperor, not his Shield or Hammer.

Yes they were. The Imperial Fists were his shield on Terra. The Iron Warriors were the hammer he smashed countless fortress worlds with. The Dark Angels being the First Legion had to perform all the roles and had 6 wings to do it with.

Legions, yes. Chapters, no. In the 40k era, the IG are the backbone, with the Astartes being the "Angels of the Emperor". Shock troops.

I'm pretty sure the Imperial Fists Chapter is still defending Terra. With even less help from the Emperor than before.

Cents are little different than a temporary Dreadnought armor. Dreads are part of their core too.

But then we're stuck with where Cents sit. Are they supposed to be near-dread-level heavy? If so, you're just duplicating Dreads. More tactical dreads? Recall that Termie Armor is formally "Tactical Dreadnaught Armor". And from what I'm seeing, they look to only be marginally smaller than Dreads. So why not mount it all on a Dread frame and put a Marine in there?

I dunno, I'm still not sure why they don't temporarily fill Dread shells with unwounded Marines already. I also don't write the fluff, I just notice that there are already several fluff similarities between Dreads, Termies, and Cents to say an argument they don't fit the fluff has a hard time holding water. Most of your question is more game design than fluff. and I'm all for disliking their game design.

You want to try and argue they're not supported in the fluff when nearly anything can/is supported by the fluff, you're just going to look silly.

Everybody has their "internal consistency" gauges. And they vary wildly. I suppose I'm a bit hung up on this part. A large part of it was the abandonment of much of what I liked about Marines. And the upscaling of killiness. Things like "Lets just make Marines, but bigger. And better". Or "Crisis Suits? Marines should have them too." Or "Why have specialists in squads with regular squaddies? Lets just put all that firepower into each model!". And now they've made Marines, but bigger and better. And given Marines the Falcon Chasis, but bigger and better. And changed swapped out Marine specialists with just having the same weapon on every dood in the squad in new units.

As mentioned, I don't see a whole lot of fluff difference between many of the alternate infantry units and Cents. I get why they took the Apothecary out of the Command Squad, and somewhat the ancient. But I suspect the Ancient and the Champ will go back into the Command Squad soon, and they'll give the Command Squad a special rule to allow characters to join it or some such. That change was a failure. They were trying to get the "Heroes" out of the squad but they made them too good, which made them too expensive, especially at 1 Elite Slot per dude. Marines had to be made better. They started ruining Marines when they added Necrons - MEQ with a 4+ to stand back up at the end of the turn for roughly the same points as a Marine without a gimmick. They've tried to scale it back, but you still end up with a MEQ + a gimmick vs a MEQ without a gimmick. They appear to have finally figured that out and started handing out gimmicks to everyone. Faith Points, 2 Wounds 2 Attacks, All is Dust, T5 Plaguemarines, whatever.

So I picked a hill to die on. That doesn't make me wrong. Doesn't make my complaints invalid. But does make them unimportant. I recognize and accept your point.

Your complaints are just as valid as mine, some of them are the same as mine. Your reasoning may be wrong - for example blaming fluff for game value/situations.

ASM were/are the pilots for most of the Astartes vehicles. The fluff used? to be that the Reserve Company ASM would pilot the vehicles for the battle companies.

I always assumed that either could be the truth, depending on the chapter/company/conditions. But to further enforce your point, consider Autarch fluff. There's still canon fluff that says they are former Exarchs, that then left their path and studied other Aspects. Whereas Exarchs cannot - phsyically or mentally, in any way, ever - leave their path. Being lost on their path is what actually defines being an Exarch. Sometimes, GW fluff is just dumb and contradictory. I bring this up tos how agreement with that thesis.

Bharring wrote:

The underlying point is that GW did some fun and reasonably consistent stuff with deployment logistics with Marines. Between Thunderhawks, Pods, and StormRavens, it makes a lot of sense. Cents don't fit into any of them reasonably. The closest fit is they'd be able to take the Dread's spot, but only at 1-for-1, not 3-for-1. At which point, why not bring a Dread?

The Dread rides in the Thunderhawk - even though it probably can't fit if you cross sectioned the model which nobody is going to do for $700 - so I have no problem with Cents in them. Transports vs Infantry have always been shaky. Rhinos are ridiculously small, or Tactical Marines are ridiculously large. Somehow a rechargable battery/capacitor system that ostensibly uses charging energy from the tank engine takes up more space than cases and cases of belt fed bullets for hurricane bolters. Not Cent specific but we're in a no-man's-land on transports. Primaris Marines can't rid in transports that Cents/Termies can? Regular Marines can't ride in a transport that Primaris can? So they can screw the Crimson Fists who want to run Kantor with some Aggressors in a Repulsor? I'm strongly of the opinion 8th edition is simply a Beta Test we're paying for on Primaris Marines.

Bharring wrote:

I suppose barrel range might make a projectile actually go further, but the barrel range's impact on range isn't so much how far the bullet goes, but how accurate it is at that distance. Sure, it's got a rocket motor built in, but going fast doesn't help if you're going in the wrong direction...
.

Only to a certain point. You're dealing with bullet shape - Spitzer, Boat Tail, Round, etc, rifling twist - the grooves that spin the bullet like a spiraling football, and the speed leaving the barrel (which has to match the rifling twist for stable flight) as the primary affects on accuracy. The gas from combustion propels the projectile, and you need the barrel to keep the gas compressed behind the projectile else it expands in all directions and the projectile just jumps like a tiddly wink. If you toss some ammunition into an open fire it'll go off like firecrackers (eventually, if the fire is hot enough) but it won't actually "shoot" anyone through their firefighting gear - There's a video on YouTube that'll make you cry if you shoot as a hobby. The effect of a longer barrel (after that certain point) on accuracy isn't about the chemical/physical reaction at all. It's about the distance between the front sight and the rear sight. The further apart they are, the less human error can be introduced. Put the index finger of each hand up next to each other and draw a line over the top of them. The close they are the more than line covers as you shift your head just a little bit. The further apart the "thinner" that line gets.

Thank you for that. There's a lot of details in your post I didn't specifically know.

Oh the mistakes GW makes wouldn't make Hollywood blush, but they do make me chuckle. Bolter ammunition is supposed to be caseless in the fluff. You know those brass things we glue on and paint coming out of the boltstorm gauntlets and Gauntlet's of Ultramar ejector ports are? Brass Casings. On Caseless ammunition.

As I posted upthread, firing a shell with just a firing mechanism would "fire" it, but it'd be more a grenade than a bullet. Although I'd expect some directionality from the shape of the shell casing, there wouldn't be much. As we've both implied, explosive forces expand in all directions. The weapon system (typically gun barrel) contains that force and directs it. As for force without a barrel, forces decrease by the cube of distance - as they spread out by volume. And the -3rd power is *huge*. Not surprising firefighting gear can stop a bullet at short distances.

As for barrel length, I had been taught that that's why Carbines (mostly talking old school, such as Dragoons) would have less accuracy with the same rounds as standard long arms. But what you bring up would certainly explain why that would appear true even if not. Probably worth more reading on my part.

Long story short, the gun/barrel is a very important part of the weapon system. The munition alone - even if rocket-propelled - isn't an effective weapon.

Well there's two parts... the Bolter "bullet" itself is supposed to explode when it makes contact with the wet fleshy bits of the target (mass reactive), thus the grenade idea you've got. You'd get directionality because there's more resistance "behind" the shell being triggered than in front of it exerting some directional force

As far as carbines, there are two definitions. A rifle that fires pistol caliber ammunition - think the Thompson of World War II firing the same ammunition as the 1911 pistol (or a lever gun like the Henry in .44-40 Winchester caliber with the horse revolvers of the day - or a rifle that was cut down to a shorter barrel length - think the modern M4 vs the Vietnam era M-16.

Neither of which (the Carbines) will be as accurate as a full on rifle. Though the pistol carbine with the proper barrel length/rifling twist will be more accurate than the matching pistol In the pistol caliber version - pistol caliber ammunition isn't designed for rifle engagement ranges - they don't have the powder charge to remain stabilized for those distances. A shorter barrel length carbine using rifle caliber ammunition returns to the iron sights issue - called Sight Radius. Modern inventions like scopes/optics has more or less nullified the Sight Radius issue - an M4 with an ACOG will be about as accurate as an M-16.

I'm pretty sure the Imperial Fists Chapter is still defending Terra. With even less help from the Emperor than before.

they haven't been guardian terra since the war of the beast as I understand it. defence of the palace falls to the OTHER guys in gold power armor

BrianDavion wrote:

I'm pretty sure the Imperial Fists Chapter is still defending Terra. With even less help from the Emperor than before.

they haven't been guardian terra since the war of the beast as I understand it. defence of the palace falls to the OTHER guys in gold power armor

The Last Wall protocol survived the War of the Beast. If they do make a Sons of Dorn codex - I wouldn't be surprised to see a campaign book where the protocol is revived when Abby and his 13th come calling. Especially if Dorn is brought back.

So Angel's of Death is Atsknf, bolter discipline, and "shock troops" which effectively gives all marines an extra attack.

I think this is pretty crazy. GK won't be top of the list but they got a little choppier I guess. Fingers still crossed that this new book buffs reivers cause Ap 0 is dumb on an elite slot unit


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Another thing I noticed is that an infiltrator has a larger helmet and like a 90s sized computer on his forearm. I wonder if that's the jamming ability or something else

The jamming ability is on the Captain as well and he didn't have the helmet+computer. That's not it.

I'm seriously wondering if they'll get access to an 'orbital strike' styled ability to offset what is supposed to be the relatively small/covert nature of the Vanguard units.

Has no one posted this yet?

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/08/03/apocalypse-mega-battle-and-warhammer-40000-previewgw-homepage-post-1/

The hover Rhino is called an Impulsor, looks like three Heavy Stubbers and two Storm Bolters.
The Dread is actually a walker called an Invictor, looks like four Heavy Stubbers and an Assault Bolter.

The Newman wrote:
Has no one posted this yet?

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/08/03/apocalypse-mega-battle-and-warhammer-40000-previewgw-homepage-post-1/

The hover Rhino is called an Impulsor, looks like three Heavy Stubbers and two Storm Bolters.
The Dread is actually a walker called an Invictor, looks like four Heavy Stubbers and an Assault Bolter.

That +1A first round in melee sure is appreciated. My black templars send a thankful prayer to the god emperor.

really not liking how GW is putting stubbers on all the new marine vehicles. That's a guardsmen's weapon and the new hover rhino would look so much better with a heavy bolter turret.

HoundsofDemos wrote:
really not liking how GW is putting stubbers on all the new marine vehicles. That's a guardsmen's weapon and the new hover rhino would look so much better with a heavy bolter turret.

man I'm so glad I'm not the only one who feels this way. It seems like such a big step backwards.

I can only assume that somebody in the GW sculpting department just likes those kind of gun barrels.

 bullyboy wrote:

HoundsofDemos wrote:
really not liking how GW is putting stubbers on all the new marine vehicles. That's a guardsmen's weapon and the new hover rhino would look so much better with a heavy bolter turret.

man I'm so glad I'm not the only one who feels this way. It seems like such a big step backwards.

To be fair though, my last game was a 600pt escalation league game, I killed more death company with the H.Stubbers on my Skorpius Disintegrator, than the missiles & the mortar combined...
but yes, agree that Marines should be bolter weapons not Stubbers.

HoundsofDemos wrote:
really not liking how GW is putting stubbers on all the new marine vehicles. That's a guardsmen's weapon and the new hover rhino would look so much better with a heavy bolter turret.

The pintle stubbber is fine but the dual-stubber box just looks silly, especially as there already is a pintle-mounted one next to it. The artwork in the video show the turret with something that might be tiny missiles, so I expect there to be an option for that.

 Crimson wrote:

HoundsofDemos wrote:
really not liking how GW is putting stubbers on all the new marine vehicles. That's a guardsmen's weapon and the new hover rhino would look so much better with a heavy bolter turret.

The pintle stubbber is fine but the dual-stubber box just looks silly, especially as there already is a pintle-mounted one next to it. The artwork in the video show the turret with something that might be tiny missiles, so I expect there to be an option for that.

I like that they're finally armed in a way that makes sense. What kind of self respecting 40k vehicle is going around with just a stormbolter? It was shameful.

I too always thought the heavy bolters were classically marine-y as they didnt use cruddy stubbers like the guard, but I guess just having more guns in general is better than nothing...

Mostly I'm just sad over the obsolescence of my fleet of Rhino chassis vehicles. I knew it was coming, but a small part of me still held out a shred of hope GW would fix the old tactical marines and their transports too.

ERJAK wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

HoundsofDemos wrote:
really not liking how GW is putting stubbers on all the new marine vehicles. That's a guardsmen's weapon and the new hover rhino would look so much better with a heavy bolter turret.

The pintle stubbber is fine but the dual-stubber box just looks silly, especially as there already is a pintle-mounted one next to it. The artwork in the video show the turret with something that might be tiny missiles, so I expect there to be an option for that.

I like that they're finally armed in a way that makes sense. What kind of self respecting 40k vehicle is going around with just a stormbolter? It was shameful.

Too be fair it had only a storm bolter because it was a cheap transport, now it's not cheap! So this is going to be the new 8th edition rhino and I'm willing to bet it'll be like 120

I'll also note that we now have pictures of the Lasfusile. That is not a gun that looks like it might be in range of real AT damage, but a lot of Marine missile weapons don't look like much either. (Looking at you, Terminator Cyclone Launcher.)

 fraser1191 wrote:

ERJAK wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

HoundsofDemos wrote:
really not liking how GW is putting stubbers on all the new marine vehicles. That's a guardsmen's weapon and the new hover rhino would look so much better with a heavy bolter turret.

The pintle stubbber is fine but the dual-stubber box just looks silly, especially as there already is a pintle-mounted one next to it. The artwork in the video show the turret with something that might be tiny missiles, so I expect there to be an option for that.

I like that they're finally armed in a way that makes sense. What kind of self respecting 40k vehicle is going around with just a stormbolter? It was shameful.

Too be fair it had only a storm bolter because it was a cheap transport, now it's not cheap! So this is going to be the new 8th edition rhino and I'm willing to bet it'll be like 120

120 points... honestly isn't THAT abd for a transport in 8th.

The Newman wrote:
I'll also note that we now have pictures of the Lasfusile.

Where? All I can see the normal sniper rifles...