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I liked that the rhino was lightly armed and cheap. It did it's job well of moving marines safely around the board and the cargo was were the fire power was. Stripping it of it's firepoints and making it way more expensive ruined it as a unit.

If this new thing clocks in at 120 I don't see any reason to buy one.

 Crimson wrote:

The Newman wrote:
I'll also note that we now have pictures of the Lasfusile.

Where? All I can see the normal sniper rifles...

...huh, coulda swore those were different. It's just that little wire loop on the right-most one and that's probably just extra detail.

HoundsofDemos wrote:
I liked that the rhino was lightly armed and cheap. It did it's job well of moving marines safely around the board and the cargo was were the fire power was. Stripping it of it's firepoints and making it way more expensive ruined it as a unit.

If this new thing clocks in at 120 I don't see any reason to buy one.

I'll almost certainly buy one - then wait for them to reuse the Chassis Predator/Razorback/Vindicator/Whirlwind Style - though I'm worried they're going to keep making the chassis not quite interchangeable to punish us for buying Predators and magnetizing.

Without seeing the rules I'm not sure I'd take one. I'll have to see the rules first, but I can see using them like Razorbacks - an add on Heavy Weapon.


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 bullyboy wrote:

HoundsofDemos wrote:
really not liking how GW is putting stubbers on all the new marine vehicles. That's a guardsmen's weapon and the new hover rhino would look so much better with a heavy bolter turret.

man I'm so glad I'm not the only one who feels this way. It seems like such a big step backwards.

Well to be fair the new Walker is a Sentinel not a Dreadnought, so Stubbers aren't the only thing we're stealing. Plus, I think the Ironhail and Guard Stubber are different, so they sort of get away with it. Especially if the fluff it up about why a stubber is called a stubber and a bolter is called a bolter.


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Tiggy crossing the Rubicon isn't much of a surprise. He was either going to do it, or get killed and replaced.

Korsarro Khan being the first non-Ultramarine is telling. Sounds like White Scars is a better seller than I thought. Jagatai might be coming back sooner than later.

The Choose Your Own Chapter Tactics making a comeback isn't a surprise in the cyclical nature of 40K Rules. Bring back the Medic Sergeants!

The mini-dex'es could be outstanding if they do it right. If they bring back FOC flexing - bikes as troops for White Scars? - they could fix a fair bit of what they screwed up with detachments and CP's. I am sadly not optimistic they will however - Korsarro is now Primaris, and DEFINITELY not on a bike.

Isn't Shock Assault already a duplicate of multiple abilities like the Red Thirst? Will it stack? Are they replacing the others?

Red thirst gives +1 to wound and not +1 attack.
Just got my second box of DC yesterday and have a third on the way. They already had a potential 6 attacks(bolter + chainsword build) and now they will have 7. That rerolls hits and rerolls 1s to wound and wound t4 on 2+. Thats a dead plaguebearers squad.

Klickor wrote:
Red thirst gives +1 to wound and not +1 attack.
Just got my second box of DC yesterday and have a third on the way. They already had a potential 6 attacks(bolter + chainsword build) and now they will have 7. That rerolls hits and rerolls 1s to wound and wound t4 on 2+. Thats a dead plaguebearers squad.

OK its similar to the Black Rage. I repeat will they stack, will one be replaced?

How are you getting 6 attacks? 2, + 1 CS, +1 Charge = 4... psychic powers and other outside influences?

So, SM players will need to buy two books now, which will be outdated a year later


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Klickor wrote:
Red thirst gives +1 to wound and not +1 attack.
Just got my second box of DC yesterday and have a third on the way. They already had a potential 6 attacks(bolter + chainsword build) and now they will have 7. That rerolls hits and rerolls 1s to wound and wound t4 on 2+. Thats a dead plaguebearers squad.

How do you know red thirst will remain the same ? All adeptus astartes, this includes BA, will get new rules.

This is what I'm afraid of, how quickly will the books get out dated now and will I need multiple marine books ? Like what will happen with the Deathwatch as well ?

As it sounds like it's one big book for all the marine stuff, and then side books for each chapter and makes me wonder what will count for a chapter. I can't see them excluding the deathwatch from all the new primaris stuff or rule changes when they are also marines.

New codexes?
Now time to wait a year and a half for a disappointing release and a codex that has less options than the previous one.

In the meantime, lets look forward to Marine players justifying their army being as good as Orks in melee. Because as I remember a certain posters excuse was "Orks arent meant to be good in shooting", and yet marines now have that power in melee.

 p5freak wrote:
So, SM players will need to buy two books now, which will be outdated a year later


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Klickor wrote:
Red thirst gives +1 to wound and not +1 attack.
Just got my second box of DC yesterday and have a third on the way. They already had a potential 6 attacks(bolter + chainsword build) and now they will have 7. That rerolls hits and rerolls 1s to wound and wound t4 on 2+. Thats a dead plaguebearers squad.

How do you know red thirst will remain the same ? All adeptus astartes, this includes BA, will get new rules.

One can assume BA will get new rules. But so far the only two covers we've seen are UM and WS. One can assume there will be 6 in total based on the photo of UM with 5 (Redacted) covers behind it - but it could be more, it could be less too. They could just have a blurb in the new SM Codex to go back to your old BA codex for special characters and unit rules or something. Not seeing the other covers, it could even be both, the current Codex SM gets split, the 6 First Founding Chapters get their books, and BA/DA/SW Potentially DW/GK get an addendum or some such until their pamphlet comes out that boils down to "Treat your codex as the index, and you can still use the index too.".


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AngryAngel80 wrote:
This is what I'm afraid of, how quickly will the books get out dated now and will I need multiple marine books ? Like what will happen with the Deathwatch as well ?

As it sounds like it's one big book for all the marine stuff, and then side books for each chapter and makes me wonder what will count for a chapter. I can't see them excluding the deathwatch from all the new primaris stuff or rule changes when they are also marines.

The story itself confirms DW/GK and Chaos Marines get the new rule but isn't clear on of they're getting a new Dex. I'm waiting for someone who gets more attacks on a 6 to get or not get that extra attack on the extra attack they got for the new rule.


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 Eonfuzz wrote:
New codexes?
Now time to wait a year and a half for a disappointing release and a codex that has less options than the previous one.

I don't think it will take that long. From the looks of things, they're just taking the current Dex, tweaking a few things, and adding the new stuff in, then splitting it into 7 books - 1 big one, 6 small ones and letting us buy it again.

 Eonfuzz wrote:
New codexes?
Now time to wait a year and a half for a disappointing release and a codex that has less options than the previous one.

In the meantime, lets look forward to Marine players justifying their army being as good as Orks in melee. Because as I remember a certain posters excuse was "Orks arent meant to be good in shooting", and yet marines now have that power in melee.

They cost a lot more? Like, a lot?

How is a marine is up to ork power in melee? Any weapons at all and the cheaper ork has more attacks. A regular marine gets 2 attacks on the charge and probably won't be charging if they stop to use the bolter discipline. More like, marines are finally up to almost Catachan guardsman level in cc if they charge Marine Vets with 3 or 4 attacks will be capable, but they're also paying large point costs for any weapons.

I'm assuming BA will end up with something else instead of having yet another +1 attack on the charge. That gets rather silly for melee-centric units like suicide smash captains, yet leaves the rest of their units still just as underpowered as today.

I'd been thinking since seeing the power ramp in 8th that marines really needed a 2 shot bolter and 2 attacks base, (well that or a massive, horde level point reduction). Looks like GW finally thinks the same, but is unwilling to change a statline so we get a bunch of special rules to apply instead that almost do the same thing.

Martel732 wrote:

 Eonfuzz wrote:
New codexes?
Now time to wait a year and a half for a disappointing release and a codex that has less options than the previous one.

In the meantime, lets look forward to Marine players justifying their army being as good as Orks in melee. Because as I remember a certain posters excuse was "Orks arent meant to be good in shooting", and yet marines now have that power in melee.

They cost a lot more? Like, a lot?

Your average Ork boy is just about half the cost of an assault marine (Just under half with a Jump Pack, Just over without). Vs T4 The Boy with the pistol will do about 1/6 of a wounding shot (Hit that successfully wounds before armor saves) per turn. The Assault Marine with a pistol will do about 1/3. In Close Combat, the Boy will have 3A hit wtih 2, wound with 1. The Marine will have 2A hit with 1.67, wound with .835 (Had to edit, changed from DC marine to Assault Marine after I started and forgot to change Marine CCW stats)

Toss in a 3+ vs a 6+ and it feels like the cost of a boy is low (or the cost of a Marine is high) but not massively so.

The real imbalance is probably in the Green Tide, Mob Rule. Dakka Dakka Dakka, and 'Dis Is ours! Zog Off! rule synergies.

So lacking such synergies, GW might just make marines brute force? I dunno. But marines have basically been getting stomped for 2 years now. Orks can blow apart that shiny new expensive tank just fine with the shokk attack gun. Call it even, eh?

Martel732 wrote:
So lacking such synergies, GW might just make marines brute force? I dunno. But marines have basically been getting stomped for 2 years now. Orks can blow apart that shiny new expensive tank just fine with the shokk attack gun. Call it even, eh?

GW is trying to find those rules for Marines. They have been ever since they introduced Necrons. Beta Bolter Rule, and now Shock Assault. It won't work, but they're trying. Many of the problems with Marines, and Marines in close combat are systemic Big Rule Book problems, now the gimmick special rules.

Marines will still be glass cannons, the opposite of what is needed for their in-lore job.

Breton wrote:

Klickor wrote:
Red thirst gives +1 to wound and not +1 attack.
Just got my second box of DC yesterday and have a third on the way. They already had a potential 6 attacks(bolter + chainsword build) and now they will have 7. That rerolls hits and rerolls 1s to wound and wound t4 on 2+. Thats a dead plaguebearers squad.

OK its similar to the Black Rage. I repeat will they stack, will one be replaced?

How are you getting 6 attacks? 2, + 1 CS, +1 Charge = 4... psychic powers and other outside influences?

I have a Sanguinor and Librarian in the list too. Mostly for buffing my Sanguinary Guard but they could buff the DC instead. Unless there is a good target for the few hammers in the DC unit the buffs will most often go to the Sanguinary guard.

Martel732 wrote:
Marines will still be glass cannons, the opposite of what is needed for their in-lore job.

I find this rich coming from someone who heartily professes to hate the 40k lore. So you'll use the lore to justify changes for what you want but crap on it in all other situations? Methinks you both protest too much. I get that marines need a boost in gameplay but it's funny seeing marine players contradict themselves all over the place as they crap on other factions while bemoaning their state as the golden child of 40k.

Anyway, Shock Assault is pretty damn nice bonus. I also really like the news that there will be some customisability in the Chapter Tactics.

bort wrote:
I too always thought the heavy bolters were classically marine-y as they didnt use cruddy stubbers like the guard, but I guess just having more guns in general is better than nothing...

Mostly I'm just sad over the obsolescence of my fleet of Rhino chassis vehicles. I knew it was coming, but a small part of me still held out a shred of hope GW would fix the old tactical marines and their transports too.

Is there any confirmation about no more Rhinos and Tacticals?

 Grimskul wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Marines will still be glass cannons, the opposite of what is needed for their in-lore job.

I find this rich coming from someone who heartily professes to hate the 40k lore. So you'll use the lore to justify changes for what you want but crap on it in all other situations? Methinks you both protest too much. I get that marines need a boost in gameplay but it's funny seeing marine players contradict themselves all over the place as they crap on other factions while bemoaning their state as the golden child of 40k.

I can hate it and use it at the same time. It's GW. Anything goes. I don't think the bonus even changes that much. So Ork players needn't worry about losing a few extra games.

Martel732 wrote:
Marines will still be glass cannons, the opposite of what is needed for their in-lore job.

Their in-lore job is to be a scalpel and do surgical strikes, which they need offense for. So you're wrong, that's good to know.

 Insectum7 wrote:

bort wrote:
I too always thought the heavy bolters were classically marine-y as they didnt use cruddy stubbers like the guard, but I guess just having more guns in general is better than nothing...

Mostly I'm just sad over the obsolescence of my fleet of Rhino chassis vehicles. I knew it was coming, but a small part of me still held out a shred of hope GW would fix the old tactical marines and their transports too.

Is there any confirmation about no more Rhinos and Tacticals?

No, for now this is just new stuff being added.


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 Crimson wrote:
Anyway, Shock Assault is pretty damn nice bonus. I also really like the news that there will be some customisability in the Chapter Tactics.

I very much like that Shock Assault works on being charged and on Heroic Intervention as well as on the charge.

Customizable chapter tactics might be huge, although obviously it depends on what's in the list.

Well, I hope having just the Space Marine book and custom Chapter traits will work for me. If all the UM characters are getting Primarized anyways, I have little inclination to stick with them.

Big hopes for custom Chapter stuff again. There will probably be a bunch of clearly more favored choices, but whatevs. The 4th Ed book with customizations was super fun.

The Newman wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:

bort wrote:
I too always thought the heavy bolters were classically marine-y as they didnt use cruddy stubbers like the guard, but I guess just having more guns in general is better than nothing...

Mostly I'm just sad over the obsolescence of my fleet of Rhino chassis vehicles. I knew it was coming, but a small part of me still held out a shred of hope GW would fix the old tactical marines and their transports too.

Is there any confirmation about no more Rhinos and Tacticals?

No, for now this is just new stuff being added.


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 Crimson wrote:
Anyway, Shock Assault is pretty damn nice bonus. I also really like the news that there will be some customisability in the Chapter Tactics.

I very much like that Shock Assault works on being charged and on Heroic Intervention as well as on the charge.

Customizable chapter tactics might be huge, although obviously it depends on what's in the list.

I hope that custom chapters will be just as competitive as any of these first Founding Chapters with their supplements.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Marines will still be glass cannons, the opposite of what is needed for their in-lore job.

Their in-lore job is to be a scalpel and do surgical strikes, which they need offense for. So you're wrong, that's good to know.

besides, it's not like Marines aren't reasonably tough, the lore describes them shaking off lasgun fire etc. which, marines mostly do. but not even the worst bolter porn has Marines laughing off Plasma rifle shots


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 Insectum7 wrote:
Well, I hope having just the Space Marine book and custom Chapter traits will work for me. If all the UM characters are getting Primarized anyways, I have little inclination to stick with them.

Big hopes for custom Chapter stuff again. There will probably be a bunch of clearly more favored choices, but whatevs. The 4th Ed book with customizations was super fun.

I've been on the edge about doing an ultima founding chapter for awhile, that news pushed me over into the "HELL YES" catagory. now I just need to find some decals that'd work.

They are not reasonably tough for their cost. Especially after you equip them to do damage.


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Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Marines will still be glass cannons, the opposite of what is needed for their in-lore job.

Their in-lore job is to be a scalpel and do surgical strikes, which they need offense for. So you're wrong, that's good to know.

This game doesnt have surgical strikes. The guardsmen foil the deepstrike 100% of the time. They have to be able to take damage to do their job in the game.

The guardsmen foil the deepstrike 100% of the time.

hyperboile much?

Thats not hyperbole. Marines cant break the 9" rule with any strat or chapter tactic that im aware of. That means 9+4 spacing always blocks assault and denies 12" doubletap. Im not saying theres always guardsmen, im saying the determinstic nature shuts down surgical when they are present.

Its a weak codex, but can win over half your games vs most ba players simply using 9+4 spacing because they dont know to look for it.

Martel732 wrote:
They are not reasonably tough for their cost. Especially after you equip them to do damage.


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Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Marines will still be glass cannons, the opposite of what is needed for their in-lore job.

Their in-lore job is to be a scalpel and do surgical strikes, which they need offense for. So you're wrong, that's good to know.

This game doesnt have surgical strikes. The guardsmen foil the deepstrike 100% of the time. They have to be able to take damage to do their job in the game.

Compared to last edition, they AND Terminators, whether anyone wants to admit it or not, have become more tough vs a bigger variety of weapons compared to the weapons they're less durable to. No I don't care what you "feel", that's a straight fact.

I dont care about last edition. They died like flies in 7th, too. Quit comparing to an irrelevant edition. Look at how fast they bleed 8th ed points.

BA do craploads of damage. Once. Thats not tenable in 8th for what they cost. They die like gsc but arent costed like them.