Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

NO, they haven't. Bobby G is soulcrushing, and the only marine list archetype performing consistently. And now their vehicles fall back and shoot.

The same with the Salamanders getting the Lucius tactic too. Have they been reading my rants?

Martel732 wrote:
NO, they haven't. Bobby G is soulcrushing, and the only marine list archetype performing consistently. And now their vehicles fall back and shoot.

He costs 400 points. The cost of 3 smash captains. Give me a break. All good marine vehicles can already fall back and shoot. Plus with a -1 + heavy weapons you are shooting like an ork. AKA useless. They are overdoing it as expected. Ultras chapter tactics (AKA barely even a tactic) doesn't change. Every other tactic. Hugely better. They added additional hits on 6's for a bunch of tactics. They apply to vehicles. Iron hands is 3 really good tactics in 1. Ultra marines is .5 of a tactic. LD buff is meaningless and fall back and shoot at -1 is worth about half of a tactic.

Those are both defensive buffs. Which is what myself and others have been wanting.

 Xenomancers wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Ultras have bobby G. They are finally compensating for him.

They have over compensated. Have you seen the iron hands tactic? LOL

I do believe Iron Hands earned possibly the best chapter tactic this time, but I doubt Ultramarines' is the worst.
At least even their non-flying vehicles do not have to worry about being tied in combat.
While we do not know the points cost changes, that alone makes land raiders far more useful than they are now.

 Xenomancers wrote:
Well Ultras are now the worst chapter by far. Thank all for being giant whiners.

RG get -1 to hit and count as being in cover? Ultras get +1 LD and can fall back and shoot at -1? LOL. Hard to believe they are even trying with this BS.

Reading is fundamental.

Raven Guard get -1 to be hit if the target unit is not a vehicle and is on or within a terrain feature. Otherwise it's "count as in cover" at 12" or further.

 Xenomancers wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
NO, they haven't. Bobby G is soulcrushing, and the only marine list archetype performing consistently. And now their vehicles fall back and shoot.

He costs 400 points. The cost of 3 smash captains. Give me a break.

There is only one smash capt, and he is turned off by proper spacing of models.

Pew. Pew.

What does it do now? I don't even know.

Chapter tactics for marines just got twice as good or better than their previous incarnations.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Pew. Pew.

Yep! My Intercessors toting them are about to be hella more deadly.

Martel732 wrote:
What does it do now? I don't even know.

Went up one damage.

They incorporated either stratagems or warlord traits or just put extra stuff in the CT.
Curious about the new things that are going to be in their place.

Primaris killing other primaris. LOL.

Really really good chapter tactics all around but...
Am i the only who thinks that they may have gone too far? I hope that marines don't get point reductions on top of this, or it's back to the dark age of 7th.

Oof

 Xenomancers wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
NO, they haven't. Bobby G is soulcrushing, and the only marine list archetype performing consistently. And now their vehicles fall back and shoot.

He costs 400 points. The cost of 3 smash captains. Give me a break.

Dude, Fall Back and shooting is still godly.

The worst is clearly Crimson Fists due to most units being stuck as minimum 5 man groups.

Spoletta wrote:
Really really good chapter tactics all around but...
Am i the only who thinks that they may have gone too far? I hope that marines don't get point reductions on top of this, or it's back to the dark age of 7th.

I suspect they will avoid point drops after this. These tactics for the most part don't change the durability problems. They are going for offense.

Martel732 wrote:

Spoletta wrote:
Really really good chapter tactics all around but...
Am i the only who thinks that they may have gone too far? I hope that marines don't get point reductions on top of this, or it's back to the dark age of 7th.

I suspect they will avoid point drops after this. These tactics for the most part don't change the durability problems. They are going for offense.

Except that RG one. Cover AND -1 to hit confers some serious durability. And Sallies ignore AP1. And BT got ignore MW on 5+.

Yeah, they have to cower in cover to get it. I think its more fair than getting the -1 all the time. AP gains some value! Yay. Melta is mostly useless instead of total garbage.

The -1 only works in cover but that's still pretty good.

I really like the look of these and I notice that all the bonuses do seem very neatly locked into pieces added on top of each other. Looking at the existing options I personally believe we will see a lot of these (if not all) make there way into the custom chapter picking any two which would be great for giving them versatility, but perhaps the at the cost of not having access to the supplement books. Who knows.

So far I really like the salamander option due to it being an awesome and reliable way to pour out damage with tons of re-rolls and really nice to buff the power fist sergeants on top of now being immune to -1 attacks which are quite common. That will for sure save them some wounds. Even on high rof weapons 1 free re-roll to hit and to wound is going to make a difference.

The Iron Hand one reminds me a bit of the deathskull orks because it's caked with benefits. They retain the 6+ FNP which is nice (especially on vehicles and primaris) with now doubling their efficiency in overwatch which any Tau player can tell you is really solid and finally their vehicles pretty much ignore the damage table until dead which again I think is a potentially underrated bonus that will really make a difference.

Soooo...these apply to all units...

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Chapter tactics for marines just got twice as good or better than their previous incarnations.

LOL yeah and the worst tactic didn't change. How many people were playing Ultramarines for the chapter tactics. In fact. The Ultras chapter tactic is so bad and useless that people even break the detachments because it does notihng.

No reason not to play iron hands now. Your best units get 6+ FNP / overwatch on 5's and don't degrade. LOL.

It's fine - I'll play blue iron hands. Could care less about that.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Soooo...these apply to all units...

Which is how it should've been in the first place. Granted I'd rather they taken the Guard route where the vehicles get a different benefit.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Chapter tactics for marines just got twice as good or better than their previous incarnations.

LOL yeah and the worst tactic didn't change. How many people were playing Ultramarines for the chapter tactics. In fact. The Ultras chapter tactic is so bad and useless that people even break the detachments because it does notihng.

No reason not to play iron hands now. Your best units get 6+ FNP / overwatch on 5's and don't degrade. LOL.

It's fine - I'll play blue iron hands. Could care less about that.

Well, tanks that can fall back and shoot, I guess? If anyone wanted to claim a BobbyG tax this is likely it.

Really happy for the other marine players. Hopefully Gman will come down to a more reasonable 300 points considering you are giving up 2-3 chapter traits to even run the army.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Chapter tactics for marines just got twice as good or better than their previous incarnations.

LOL yeah and the worst tactic didn't change. How many people were playing Ultramarines for the chapter tactics. In fact. The Ultras chapter tactic is so bad and useless that people even break the detachments because it does notihng.

No reason not to play iron hands now. Your best units get 6+ FNP / overwatch on 5's and don't degrade. LOL.

It's fine - I'll play blue iron hands. Could care less about that.

Well, tanks that can fall back and shoot, I guess? If anyone wanted to claim a BobbyG tax this is likely it.

Fallback and shoot is nice, but they’re gonna be hitting on 5s (barring Repulsor or changes we haven’t seen).

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Chapter tactics for marines just got twice as good or better than their previous incarnations.

LOL yeah and the worst tactic didn't change. How many people were playing Ultramarines for the chapter tactics. In fact. The Ultras chapter tactic is so bad and useless that people even break the detachments because it does notihng.

No reason not to play iron hands now. Your best units get 6+ FNP / overwatch on 5's and don't degrade. LOL.

It's fine - I'll play blue iron hands. Could care less about that.

Well, tanks that can fall back and shoot, I guess? If anyone wanted to claim a BobbyG tax this is likely it.

Tanks have heavy weapons. They hit on 5's when they fall back. Please don't pretend that is good. It is so far from good.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Sterling191 wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Chapter tactics for marines just got twice as good or better than their previous incarnations.

LOL yeah and the worst tactic didn't change. How many people were playing Ultramarines for the chapter tactics. In fact. The Ultras chapter tactic is so bad and useless that people even break the detachments because it does notihng.

No reason not to play iron hands now. Your best units get 6+ FNP / overwatch on 5's and don't degrade. LOL.

It's fine - I'll play blue iron hands. Could care less about that.

Well, tanks that can fall back and shoot, I guess? If anyone wanted to claim a BobbyG tax this is likely it.

Fallback and shoot is nice, but they’re gonna be hitting on 5s (barring Repulsor or changes we haven’t seen).

Which has fly keyword and does this ALREADY. Without a minus 1 to hit. Still technically as worded. An Ultras repusor has to that that -1 tro hit to fall back and shoot even. GW is on drugs. Again - happy for the changes to everyone else. They are well deserved. Butr actual smart people (like me) knew the real reason Ultramarines were the best choice was because you couldn't get chapter traits on your vehicles. Now that you can. Ironhands and ravengaurd are going to dominate and Ultras are going to disappear. As in they are trash just like they were before. Just the fact that the -1 to hit when falling back was retrained shows how little they understand about gameplay.

IMHO the best chapter trait went to salamanders.

Vehicles with rerolls?
AP-1 immunity?