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I know it's just a mechanic to make stalker rifles niche so may have absolute zero fluff justification, but I do wonder if there is any fluff justification for a stalker rifle to be D2 specifically whilst a heavy bolter is D1? I get the extra armour penetration of it, but the increased damage whilst a heavy bolter that fire larger bolts only being D1 still is a bit weird.

Again, I'm very prepared for it to just be an in game mechanic, but I do believe it is a bit daft fluff wise.

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
I know it's just a mechanic to make stalker rifles niche so may have absolute zero fluff justification, but I do wonder if there is any fluff justification for a stalker rifle to be D2 specifically whilst a heavy bolter is D1? I get the extra armour penetration of it, but the increased damage whilst a heavy bolter that fire larger bolts only being D1 still is a bit weird.

Again, I'm very prepared for it to just be an in game mechanic, but I do believe it is a bit daft fluff wise.

Game mechanic.
It's Like with the Kelermorphs stubpistols.

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
I know it's just a mechanic to make stalker rifles niche so may have absolute zero fluff justification, but I do wonder if there is any fluff justification for a stalker rifle to be D2 specifically whilst a heavy bolter is D1? I get the extra armour penetration of it, but the increased damage whilst a heavy bolter that fire larger bolts only being D1 still is a bit weird.

Again, I'm very prepared for it to just be an in game mechanic, but I do believe it is a bit daft fluff wise.

I can kind of see where you're coming from but from a mechanical perspective Heavy 2 D1 is too close to Rapid Fire 1 D1 with Bolter Discipline, and from an "aesthetic should inform rules" perspective the tiny magazine and big scope on that gun implies that it's not meant to be throwing a hail of lead down range.

 Stux wrote:


I feel you are idealising circumstances for the Stalker is all.

I can see you feel that. But I've countered all your objections with what I think are fairly reasonable points.

The Stalker can go from deployment edge to opposing table edge on most table/deployments.
UM Stalkers can move and fire (probably - for at least a little while)

I feel 2/3 Bolt Rifles Rapid Fire isn't unreasonable for an average when comparing pre-Doctrine/Scions Bolt Rifles that want to stay behind your deployment edge and Stalkers as "where they were" in comparison to each other. Post doctrine both can move and fire without penalty that lets the Bolt Rifle assume to double tap every turn, but that still leaves them on par with the Stalker vs mutli-wound armies. The Bolt Rifle will have an additional -1 if you want to use Tactical to move and fire, while if you don't need to move and fire and swap to Devastator the Stalkers are now -3 D2.

Breton wrote:

 Stux wrote:


I feel you are idealising circumstances for the Stalker is all.

I can see you feel that. But I've countered all your objections with what I think are fairly reasonable points.

The Stalker can go from deployment edge to opposing table edge on most table/deployments.
UM Stalkers can move and fire (probably - for at least a little while)

I feel 2/3 Bolt Rifles Rapid Fire isn't unreasonable for an average when comparing pre-Doctrine/Scions Bolt Rifles that want to stay behind your deployment edge and Stalkers as "where they were" in comparison to each other. Post doctrine both can move and fire without penalty that lets the Bolt Rifle assume to double tap every turn, but that still leaves them on par with the Stalker vs mutli-wound armies. The Bolt Rifle will have an additional -1 if you want to use Tactical to move and fire, while if you don't need to move and fire and swap to Devastator the Stalkers are now -3 D2.

You can never swap to Devastator, switching to Tactical is a one-way trip. Same goes for Assault.

The Newman wrote:


You can never swap to Devastator, switching to Tactical is a one-way trip. Same goes for Assault.

I've heard people postulate Guilliman might have doctrine shenanigans, but you're right, I should have said Use instead of Swap to.

I just had this kind of horrid realisation that the Indominus Crusade specialist detachment still works on all the Chapter traits so you can pick a DIY chapter with "extra hits on 6s", Grey Shield it for Seige Masters, then throw Liberators and Rapid Fire on a big 10-man unit. Yeah it's 4 CPs but every 6 to hit generates 3 more hits on a unit that makes 40 shots to begin with.

And if (by some massive oversite) Bolter Drill survives and DIY successor chapters can use it then you can generate another hit on 5s if you stack Target Priority. Yes you just spent 5 CPs, but your 10-man Intercessor squad just put out 70 hits on average dice.

Breton wrote:

The Newman wrote:


You can never swap to Devastator, switching to Tactical is a one-way trip. Same goes for Assault.

I've heard people postulate Guilliman might have doctrine shenanigans, but you're right, I should have said Use instead of Swap to.

Right your argument is very unclear and implied a total diffrent understanding of the rules, stalkers imho will make sence for someone how doesn't play ultramarines but even then I would say it's an edge case, you can use units with omni scrambles and the link to buffs aslong as the captain is on the table. Better shooting buffs at lower cost and 12 inches of now deepstrike vrs some 2d heavy 1 shot bolter

Ice_can wrote:

GW has play tested this codex

hahahahahaha

On the plus side, I guess I don't have to feel bad about buying the new kill team starter set because it is kind of stupid not to collect marines.

Ice_can wrote:

stalkers imho will make sence for someone how doesn't play ultramarines but even then I would say it's an edge case, you can use units with omni scrambles and the link to buffs aslong as the captain is on the table. Better shooting buffs at lower cost and 12 inches of now deepstrike vrs some 2d heavy 1 shot bolter

You're talking about.. Infiltrators? They serve a different purpose. One gets to sit in the back and plink, one gets to infiltrate and shortcut across the field. And no, UM makes huge sense for Stalkers.(Assuming all we think we know about the little that's been revealed so far) Tactical still lets them move and fire without penalty. They get to start as -3 D2,

My list is probably going to end up with One Infiltrator, two Intercessor - One Bolt Rifle, one Stalker for the Battalion troop - Park the Stalkers, infiltrate the Infiltrators, and roam the Bolt Rifles. Depending on CP Generation, I might even make them Vets, but probably not.

The Newman wrote:
I just had this kind of horrid realisation that the Indominus Crusade specialist detachment still works on all the Chapter traits so you can pick a DIY chapter with "extra hits on 6s", Grey Shield it for Seige Masters, then throw Liberators and Rapid Fire on a big 10-man unit. Yeah it's 4 CPs but every 6 to hit generates 3 more hits on a unit that makes 40 shots to begin with.

And if (by some massive oversite) Bolter Drill survives and DIY successor chapters can use it then you can generate another hit on 5s if you stack Target Priority. Yes you just spent 5 CPs, but your 10-man Intercessor squad just put out 70 hits on average dice.

Like a couple of the other examples I am seeing thrown around it looks impressive but is it really that awesome?

So in a competitive environment what might you want to shoot that takes that many shots, perhaps a big blob of Plague Bearers.

First up you are -1 to hit so the Target Priority leaves you where you were, at best when we remember that big Plague Bearer blobs are generally made to be -2 to hit.

So let us suppose by some weird combo of psychic powers or stratagems we can ignore or bypass the -2 to hit and we actually get all those 70 hits.

That translates into around 43 wounds.

Half of those are saved by a 4++ so lets say 22 wounds get through.

1/3 of those get ignored because Nurgle. So you are looking at about 14-15 casualties. We used a 170 point unit and 5CP plus some other stuff that we do not know if it will really exist yet to remove around 100 points of Plague Bearers.

Don't get me wrong, this is not awful as the whole point of Plague Bearers is that they are hard to remove but nor can we do this with multiple units per turn because all those strats etc are restricted to one per phase. It is hardly going to break the game at any competitive level. It makes Space Marines a bit less helpless against durable chaff but that's all, it is certainly not a win button.

Breton wrote:

Ice_can wrote:

stalkers imho will make sence for someone how doesn't play ultramarines but even then I would say it's an edge case, you can use units with omni scrambles and the link to buffs aslong as the captain is on the table. Better shooting buffs at lower cost and 12 inches of now deepstrike vrs some 2d heavy 1 shot bolter

You're talking about.. Infiltrators? They serve a different purpose. One gets to sit in the back and plink, one gets to infiltrate and shortcut across the field. And no, UM makes huge sense for Stalkers.(Assuming all we think we know about the little that's been revealed so far) Tactical still lets them move and fire without penalty. They get to start as -3 D2,

My list is probably going to end up with One Infiltrator, two Intercessor - One Bolt Rifle, one Stalker for the Battalion troop - Park the Stalkers, infiltrate the Infiltrators, and roam the Bolt Rifles. Depending on CP Generation, I might even make them Vets, but probably not.

Stalkers turn 1 vrs bolt rifles turn 1
Heavy vrs rapid fire, ap-3vrs Ap-1, D2 vrs D1 from turn two onwards thats so not worthwhile
As you'll be in tactical doctrine
Its now heavy 1 vrs rapid fire with bolter discipline aka 2
So half the fire power, S same, Ap same.
I don't see why your so hyped about UM stalkers they still look meh at best for other chapters that stay in devistator doctrine maybe.

I'm guessing you've never seen someone drop a GSC unit onto your engineers or such then as that 12 inches of deepstrike Foff is money for a unit hanging back on it's own.

Ice_can wrote:

Breton wrote:

Ice_can wrote:

stalkers imho will make sence for someone how doesn't play ultramarines but even then I would say it's an edge case, you can use units with omni scrambles and the link to buffs aslong as the captain is on the table. Better shooting buffs at lower cost and 12 inches of now deepstrike vrs some 2d heavy 1 shot bolter

You're talking about.. Infiltrators? They serve a different purpose. One gets to sit in the back and plink, one gets to infiltrate and shortcut across the field. And no, UM makes huge sense for Stalkers.(Assuming all we think we know about the little that's been revealed so far) Tactical still lets them move and fire without penalty. They get to start as -3 D2,

My list is probably going to end up with One Infiltrator, two Intercessor - One Bolt Rifle, one Stalker for the Battalion troop - Park the Stalkers, infiltrate the Infiltrators, and roam the Bolt Rifles. Depending on CP Generation, I might even make them Vets, but probably not.

Stalkers turn 1 vrs bolt rifles turn 1
Heavy vrs rapid fire, ap-3vrs Ap-1, D2 vrs D1 from turn two onwards thats so not worthwhile
As you'll be in tactical doctrine
Its now heavy 1 vrs rapid fire with bolter discipline aka 2
So half the fire power, S same, Ap same.
I don't see why your so hyped about UM stalkers they still look meh at best for other chapters that stay in devistator doctrine maybe.

I'm guessing you've never seen someone drop a GSC unit onto your engineers or such then as that 12 inches of deepstrike Foff is money for a unit hanging back on it's own.

The stalker is D2. So tomatoes tomatos vs lots of targets. It's not worth spamming them. It is worth bringing 1 unit though I think to use the sniper stratagem. #1 that does mortal wounds on 6's #2 that allows you to target characters. If there is multi wound stuff to shoot in the game they will perform about equal to a bolt rfile and BETTER on turn 1 by a large margine. They are really bad vs hordes though.If you face hordes - pout that unit into CC first.

 Xenomancers wrote:
The stalker is D2. So tomatoes tomatos vs lots of targets. It's not worth spamming them. It is worth bringing 1 unit though I think to use the sniper stratagem. #1 that does mortal wounds on 6's #2 that allows you to target characters. If there is multi wound stuff to shoot in the game they will perform about equal to a bolt rfile and BETTER on turn 1 by a large margine. They are really bad vs hordes though.If you face hordes - pout that unit into CC first.

In general though, this is how it should be. Same goes if the rumour is true that Auto BRs may be Assault 3.
D2 Stalker and Assault 3 Auto BR are both better than RF BRs at their intended targets, by enough of a margin that 1-2 units with each are worth taking. But the RF BR is a better all-rounder weapon to spam. If the Auto BR is indeed Assault 3 (but 1-2ppm over the RF BR), then GW deserves a pat on the back.

-

The Newman wrote:
I just had this kind of horrid realisation that the Indominus Crusade specialist detachment still works on all the Chapter traits so you can pick a DIY chapter with "extra hits on 6s", Grey Shield it for Seige Masters, then throw Liberators and Rapid Fire on a big 10-man unit. Yeah it's 4 CPs but every 6 to hit generates 3 more hits on a unit that makes 40 shots to begin with.

And if (by some massive oversite) Bolter Drill survives and DIY successor chapters can use it then you can generate another hit on 5s if you stack Target Priority. Yes you just spent 5 CPs, but your 10-man Intercessor squad just put out 70 hits on average dice.

But you're also taking a biig target that won't easily have cover and you'd want redundancy so your cost and CP generation will be skewed.

 Galef wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
The stalker is D2. So tomatoes tomatos vs lots of targets. It's not worth spamming them. It is worth bringing 1 unit though I think to use the sniper stratagem. #1 that does mortal wounds on 6's #2 that allows you to target characters. If there is multi wound stuff to shoot in the game they will perform about equal to a bolt rfile and BETTER on turn 1 by a large margine. They are really bad vs hordes though.If you face hordes - pout that unit into CC first.

In general though, this is how it should be. Same goes if the rumour is true that Auto BRs may be Assault 3.
D2 Stalker and Assault 3 Auto BR are both better than RF BRs at their intended targets, by enough of a margin that 1-2 units with each are worth taking. But the RF BR is a better all-rounder weapon to spam. If the Auto BR is indeed Assault 3 (but 1-2ppm over the RF BR), then GW deserves a pat on the back.

-

Except if your chasing multi damage/snipers why not go eliminators as the look way better than stalkers.
Also their is an underlying assumption going on that the vigilous marine stuff is still valid post codex 2.0

While none of it is game breaking without some of those buffs a number of these options are still relatively weak.

Ice_can wrote:

 Galef wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
The stalker is D2. So tomatoes tomatos vs lots of targets. It's not worth spamming them. It is worth bringing 1 unit though I think to use the sniper stratagem. #1 that does mortal wounds on 6's #2 that allows you to target characters. If there is multi wound stuff to shoot in the game they will perform about equal to a bolt rfile and BETTER on turn 1 by a large margine. They are really bad vs hordes though.If you face hordes - pout that unit into CC first.

In general though, this is how it should be. Same goes if the rumour is true that Auto BRs may be Assault 3.
D2 Stalker and Assault 3 Auto BR are both better than RF BRs at their intended targets, by enough of a margin that 1-2 units with each are worth taking. But the RF BR is a better all-rounder weapon to spam. If the Auto BR is indeed Assault 3 (but 1-2ppm over the RF BR), then GW deserves a pat on the back.

-

Except if your chasing multi damage/snipers why not go eliminators as the look way better than stalkers.
Also their is an underlying assumption going on that the vigilous marine stuff is still valid post codex 2.0

While none of it is game breaking without some of those buffs a number of these options are still relatively weak.

It is valid. It's possible these rules are actually in the codex themselves. It's not a big assumption ether. These rules just came out and they can still sell the books - to make them invalid makes no business sense (nether does putting them in the codex but that is just good form if they do that).

Ice_can wrote:

Also their is an underlying assumption going on that the vigilous marine stuff is still valid post codex 2.0

I really want to know why you're so obsessive about pushing the "CAMPAIGN BOOKS DONT COUNT ANYMORE" narrative.

Sterling191 wrote:

Ice_can wrote:

Also their is an underlying assumption going on that the vigilous marine stuff is still valid post codex 2.0

I really want to know why you're so obsessive about pushing the "CAMPAIGN BOOKS DONT COUNT ANYMORE" narrative.

I have about a 5% doubt that they wont be valid. 95% confidence that they do.

 Xenomancers wrote:

Ice_can wrote:

 Galef wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
The stalker is D2. So tomatoes tomatos vs lots of targets. It's not worth spamming them. It is worth bringing 1 unit though I think to use the sniper stratagem. #1 that does mortal wounds on 6's #2 that allows you to target characters. If there is multi wound stuff to shoot in the game they will perform about equal to a bolt rfile and BETTER on turn 1 by a large margine. They are really bad vs hordes though.If you face hordes - pout that unit into CC first.

In general though, this is how it should be. Same goes if the rumour is true that Auto BRs may be Assault 3.
D2 Stalker and Assault 3 Auto BR are both better than RF BRs at their intended targets, by enough of a margin that 1-2 units with each are worth taking. But the RF BR is a better all-rounder weapon to spam. If the Auto BR is indeed Assault 3 (but 1-2ppm over the RF BR), then GW deserves a pat on the back.

-

Except if your chasing multi damage/snipers why not go eliminators as the look way better than stalkers.
Also their is an underlying assumption going on that the vigilous marine stuff is still valid post codex 2.0

While none of it is game breaking without some of those buffs a number of these options are still relatively weak.

It is valid. It's possible these rules are actually in the codex themselves. It's not a big assumption ether. These rules just came out and they can still sell the books - to make them invalid makes no business sense (nether does putting them in the codex but that is just good form if they do that).

Vigilous is over (or atleast GW is making zero mention of any more stuff coming) and would still sell for guard, admech, GSC, choas etc.
The marine rules being obsoleted by a new codex wouldn't stop GW producing and selling the books for everyone else.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Sterling191 wrote:

Ice_can wrote:

Also their is an underlying assumption going on that the vigilous marine stuff is still valid post codex 2.0

I really want to know why you're so obsessive about pushing the "CAMPAIGN BOOKS DONT COUNT ANYMORE" narrative.

What are you talking about this is the first time I've mentioned it

happy_inquisitor wrote:

The Newman wrote:
I just had this kind of horrid realisation that the Indominus Crusade specialist detachment still works on all the Chapter traits so you can pick a DIY chapter with "extra hits on 6s", Grey Shield it for Seige Masters, then throw Liberators and Rapid Fire on a big 10-man unit. Yeah it's 4 CPs but every 6 to hit generates 3 more hits on a unit that makes 40 shots to begin with.

And if (by some massive oversite) Bolter Drill survives and DIY successor chapters can use it then you can generate another hit on 5s if you stack Target Priority. Yes you just spent 5 CPs, but your 10-man Intercessor squad just put out 70 hits on average dice.

Like a couple of the other examples I am seeing thrown around it looks impressive but is it really that awesome?

So in a competitive environment what might you want to shoot that takes that many shots, perhaps a big blob of Plague Bearers.

First up you are -1 to hit so the Target Priority leaves you where you were, at best when we remember that big Plague Bearer blobs are generally made to be -2 to hit.

So let us suppose by some weird combo of psychic powers or stratagems we can ignore or bypass the -2 to hit and we actually get all those 70 hits.

That translates into around 43 wounds.

Half of those are saved by a 4++ so lets say 22 wounds get through.

1/3 of those get ignored because Nurgle. So you are looking at about 14-15 casualties. We used a 170 point unit and 5CP plus some other stuff that we do not know if it will really exist yet to remove around 100 points of Plague Bearers.

Don't get me wrong, this is not awful as the whole point of Plague Bearers is that they are hard to remove but nor can we do this with multiple units per turn because all those strats etc are restricted to one per phase. It is hardly going to break the game at any competitive level. It makes Space Marines a bit less helpless against durable chaff but that's all, it is certainly not a win button.

If one squad of Plaguebearers is -2 4++...

Shoot the other squad. There can be, at most, one squad affected by the -1 Psychic Power, and one squad affected by the 4++ strat. In addition, the 4++ is declared at the START of the phase, NOT in response to being shot at.

happy_inquisitor wrote:

The Newman wrote:
I just had this kind of horrid realisation that the Indominus Crusade specialist detachment still works on all the Chapter traits so you can pick a DIY chapter with "extra hits on 6s", Grey Shield it for Seige Masters, then throw Liberators and Rapid Fire on a big 10-man unit. Yeah it's 4 CPs but every 6 to hit generates 3 more hits on a unit that makes 40 shots to begin with.

And if (by some massive oversite) Bolter Drill survives and DIY successor chapters can use it then you can generate another hit on 5s if you stack Target Priority. Yes you just spent 5 CPs, but your 10-man Intercessor squad just put out 70 hits on average dice.

Like a couple of the other examples I am seeing thrown around it looks impressive but is it really that awesome?

So in a competitive environment what might you want to shoot that takes that many shots, perhaps a big blob of Plague Bearers.

First up you are -1 to hit so the Target Priority leaves you where you were, at best when we remember that big Plague Bearer blobs are generally made to be -2 to hit.

So let us suppose by some weird combo of psychic powers or stratagems we can ignore or bypass the -2 to hit and we actually get all those 70 hits.

That translates into around 43 wounds.

Half of those are saved by a 4++ so lets say 22 wounds get through.

1/3 of those get ignored because Nurgle. So you are looking at about 14-15 casualties. We used a 170 point unit and 5CP plus some other stuff that we do not know if it will really exist yet to remove around 100 points of Plague Bearers.

Don't get me wrong, this is not awful as the whole point of Plague Bearers is that they are hard to remove but nor can we do this with multiple units per turn because all those strats etc are restricted to one per phase. It is hardly going to break the game at any competitive level. It makes Space Marines a bit less helpless against durable chaff but that's all, it is certainly not a win button.

didn't realize plague bearers were 4++

That's not always a solution. The -1 almost always goes on the one that NEEDS removed. PB are busted as feth, and most of the new marine changes do nothing to help.

Ice_can wrote:

Sterling191 wrote:

Ice_can wrote:

Also their is an underlying assumption going on that the vigilous marine stuff is still valid post codex 2.0

I really want to know why you're so obsessive about pushing the "CAMPAIGN BOOKS DONT COUNT ANYMORE" narrative.

What are you talking about this is the first time I've mentioned it

I mentioned it up-thread and it got bandied about some, Sterling might have just conflated that with you mentioning the possibility. Wouldn't be the first time that's happened here.

The Newman wrote:

Ice_can wrote:

Sterling191 wrote:

Ice_can wrote:

Also their is an underlying assumption going on that the vigilous marine stuff is still valid post codex 2.0

I really want to know why you're so obsessive about pushing the "CAMPAIGN BOOKS DONT COUNT ANYMORE" narrative.

What are you talking about this is the first time I've mentioned it

I mentioned it up-thread and it got bandied about some, Sterling might have just conflated that with you mentioning the possibility. Wouldn't be the first time that's happened here.

Ayup. My bads there.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

The Newman wrote:
I just had this kind of horrid realisation that the Indominus Crusade specialist detachment still works on all the Chapter traits so you can pick a DIY chapter with "extra hits on 6s", Grey Shield it for Seige Masters, then throw Liberators and Rapid Fire on a big 10-man unit. Yeah it's 4 CPs but every 6 to hit generates 3 more hits on a unit that makes 40 shots to begin with.

And if (by some massive oversite) Bolter Drill survives and DIY successor chapters can use it then you can generate another hit on 5s if you stack Target Priority. Yes you just spent 5 CPs, but your 10-man Intercessor squad just put out 70 hits on average dice.

But you're also taking a biig target that won't easily have cover and you'd want redundancy so your cost and CP generation will be skewed.

Yeah it's not a good idea, I was just a little surprised to note that it's still possible because GW didn't change the names of any of the founding chapter traits and Indominus Crusade calls them out by name. You could just use Grey Shield to double up your "extra hit on a six" for all of your Intercessors and Inceptors once a game, and maybe double down on it with Liberators/Rapid Fire/possibly Bolter Drill as well.

Not Online!!! wrote:

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
I know it's just a mechanic to make stalker rifles niche so may have absolute zero fluff justification, but I do wonder if there is any fluff justification for a stalker rifle to be D2 specifically whilst a heavy bolter is D1? I get the extra armour penetration of it, but the increased damage whilst a heavy bolter that fire larger bolts only being D1 still is a bit weird.

Again, I'm very prepared for it to just be an in game mechanic, but I do believe it is a bit daft fluff wise.

Game mechanic.
It's Like with the Kelermorphs stubpistols.

The kelermorph pistols do happen to have a fluff reason though:

"Indentured workers risk their lives to smuggle traces of lethal chemical elements out of the sprawling arms factories in which they toil away their existence. They fashion these rare elements into custom bullets, slugs of metal tipped with depleted volonium that can pierce Power Armour and even the hulls of light tanks. The crafting of such munitions often douses the maker in deadly waves of radiation, but they willingly accept their fate, making a final pilgrimage to present their gift to the hero of the revolution before succumbing to the sickness ravaging their bodies."

Stalker Bolt Rifles might have something similar, where the bullets have different materials or designs, like a mass-produced Master-Crafted Weapon. Perhaps they'll give a justification in the new codex, assuming the stat change was made before it was written.

I figure stalkers have better damage cause they take more time to aim, are probably more accurate, and hit a critical spot

 Khorzain wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
I know it's just a mechanic to make stalker rifles niche so may have absolute zero fluff justification, but I do wonder if there is any fluff justification for a stalker rifle to be D2 specifically whilst a heavy bolter is D1? I get the extra armour penetration of it, but the increased damage whilst a heavy bolter that fire larger bolts only being D1 still is a bit weird.

Again, I'm very prepared for it to just be an in game mechanic, but I do believe it is a bit daft fluff wise.

Game mechanic.
It's Like with the Kelermorphs stubpistols.

The kelermorph pistols do happen to have a fluff reason though:

"Indentured workers risk their lives to smuggle traces of lethal chemical elements out of the sprawling arms factories in which they toil away their existence. They fashion these rare elements into custom bullets, slugs of metal tipped with depleted volonium that can pierce Power Armour and even the hulls of light tanks. The crafting of such munitions often douses the maker in deadly waves of radiation, but they willingly accept their fate, making a final pilgrimage to present their gift to the hero of the revolution before succumbing to the sickness ravaging their bodies."

Stalker Bolt Rifles might have something similar, where the bullets have different materials or designs, like a mass-produced Master-Crafted Weapon. Perhaps they'll give a justification in the new codex, assuming the stat change was made before it was written.

IT's still a bloody Stubpistol which just so happen to has an actual pistol it's range is 6" S3 No Ap D 1. Are you going to tell me that a gakky revolver will even be able to use that ammo?

I get the requirement that Marines needed a boost in the present meta and that they were frequently ignored in preference to other factions, I am also genuinely pleased that GW has heard the pleas of marine players, but am I the only one concerned that they have jumped too far the other way?

Why take any other faction when a marine has it better (YMMV)? People took specific factions because some aspect of their gameplay appealed to them. Is anyone going to bother when they can buy a marine army and get to do all the specific things they could, but better?

It will be interesting to see if there is a major rewrite of the points costs for the units.

Cheers

Andrew