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Without an official ruling, I cant say this for certain but as long as all necessary names and key words stay the same for the Freeguild Great Company, you might be able to use it provided you stay Grand Alliance Order.
To those that say there is no stupid questions I say, "Is this a stupid question?"
Astmeister wrote: So could one still use the rules from the GH for the Freeguild Great Company with the updated Points Cost and Datasheets for the units in Cities of Sigmar?
I don't see why not? You just don't get to use any of the Alliance stuff from Cities. I, for one, will be running Darkling Covens and if they lose their Alliance Abilities from GH by taking a City Alliance then I will be going back to the GH.
Astmeister wrote: So could one still use the rules from the GH for the Freeguild Great Company with the updated Points Cost and Datasheets for the units in Cities of Sigmar?
I don't see why not? You just don't get to use any of the Alliance stuff from Cities. I, for one, will be running Darkling Covens and if they lose their Alliance Abilities from GH by taking a City Alliance then I will be going back to the GH.
if the new warscrolls don't have the right keywords, you can't use any of the old stuff
Astmeister wrote: So could one still use the rules from the GH for the Freeguild Great Company with the updated Points Cost and Datasheets for the units in Cities of Sigmar?
I don't see why not? You just don't get to use any of the Alliance stuff from Cities. I, for one, will be running Darkling Covens and if they lose their Alliance Abilities from GH by taking a City Alliance then I will be going back to the GH.
I mean we will have to see how it pans out. The main issue right now is that GW dropped the Empire General kit and changed the warscroll of the Freeguild General. No option to mount him, no optional weapons like a Lance or shield and a Pistol. Heck not even an option for a Battle Standard! Which I am a bit upset about as I have a General with banner I built for a skirmish campaign.
Now he just has a Zweinhander and no other options. Well see in the next General's Handbook whether or not the Freeguild is still a thing or not.
Commodus Leitdorf Paints all of the Things!! The Breaking of the Averholme: An AoS Adventure
"We have clearly reached the point where only rampant and unchecked stabbing can save us." -Black Mage
Astmeister wrote: So could one still use the rules from the GH for the Freeguild Great Company with the updated Points Cost and Datasheets for the units in Cities of Sigmar?
I don't see why not? You just don't get to use any of the Alliance stuff from Cities. I, for one, will be running Darkling Covens and if they lose their Alliance Abilities from GH by taking a City Alliance then I will be going back to the GH.
I mean we will have to see how it pans out. The main issue right now is that GW dropped the Empire General kit and changed the warscroll of the Freeguild General. No option to mount him, no optional weapons like a Lance or shield and a Pistol. Heck not even an option for a Battle Standard! Which I am a bit upset about as I have a General with banner I built for a skirmish campaign.
Now he just has a Zweinhander and no other options. Well see in the next General's Handbook whether or not the Freeguild is still a thing or not.
There's still the option for the Griffin mounted version. You really shouldn't be shocked at the loss of the Battle Standard, as they removed everyone else's options long before that--and the horse mounted General had nothing he would synergize with.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Tiberius501 wrote: Is it weird that this book has made me want to finally take the plunge and get a full Sylvaneth army?
Yes. Yes, it is.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/10/01 13:47:37
Kanluwen wrote: There's still the option for the Griffin mounted version. You really shouldn't be shocked at the loss of the Battle Standard, as they removed everyone else's options long before that--and the horse mounted General had nothing he would synergize with.
I'm not surprised the option was dropped. I'm just not sure in the 2020 General's Handbook Freeguild will be a thing with their own Allegiance ability now that Cities of Sigmar is out.
Commodus Leitdorf Paints all of the Things!! The Breaking of the Averholme: An AoS Adventure
"We have clearly reached the point where only rampant and unchecked stabbing can save us." -Black Mage
Kanluwen wrote: There's still the option for the Griffin mounted version. You really shouldn't be shocked at the loss of the Battle Standard, as they removed everyone else's options long before that--and the horse mounted General had nothing he would synergize with.
I'm not surprised the option was dropped. I'm just not sure in the 2020 General's Handbook Freeguild will be a thing with their own Allegiance ability now that Cities of Sigmar is out.
When they first talked about Cities of Sigmar, they did mention race specific Allegiance traits--we'll see if that's in.
Kanluwen wrote: There's still the option for the Griffin mounted version. You really shouldn't be shocked at the loss of the Battle Standard, as they removed everyone else's options long before that--and the horse mounted General had nothing he would synergize with.
I'm not surprised the option was dropped. I'm just not sure in the 2020 General's Handbook Freeguild will be a thing with their own Allegiance ability now that Cities of Sigmar is out.
When they first talked about Cities of Sigmar, they did mention race specific Allegiance traits--we'll see if that's in.
The youtube reviews clearly show that they are not in. Unless they are hidden somewhere.
Dumb question re: all the marketing hype about taking Stanks and other behemoths as core: they're still capped by the behemoth limit, right? And FEC is the only faction that isn't, and that's because of their FAQ?
I have a fierce desire to do an army of Kharibdyss, however I'm not seeing that that's really a thing.
I believe that steam tanks etc becoming core will override their behemoth limitations.
Because why not.
Automatically Appended Next Post: And bottles picture on twitter just now confirms. He's playing against that book tonight he says and the picture shows 8 steam tanks and a khadron overlord ship.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/10/02 15:27:56
Without seeing all the rules I can't comment. My gut instinct is that they are over optimal, and that taking 8 of them is a no brainer. It would basically be a high save high wound high offensive model that can plow into things and generate a ton of mortal wounds with high movement and only require less than a dozen models.
We already see that 8 is likely the max you can take in a 2000 pt game. The question is whether or not their damage output and durability put them on the bell curve (meaning you won't see them very often since that is not broken) or above the bell curve (meaning that they are doing more than their points cost and thus optimal). Until you see the new warscrolls though that question cannot be answered.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/10/02 15:45:44
auticus wrote: Until you see the new warscrolls though that question cannot be answered.
Is the Warscroll on the GW website not the updated one? Has the Cities of Sigmar keyword.
Seems like a unit thats at the mercy of dice rolls. And they can gain the "Hero" keyword if you make it a commander.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/10/02 15:48:44
"Sometimes the only victory possible is to keep your opponent from winning." - The Emperor, from The Outcast Dead.
"Tell your gods we are coming for them, and that their realms will burn as ours did." -Thostos Bladestorm
I actually looked at the Steam Tank rules, these things aren't behemoths or artillery or anything limited. So I suppose that answers that for now.
For fun, here's what Greywater Fastness does for them, according to 1d4chan:
Spoiler:
City Allegiance: Greywater Fastness (Ghyran)
The polluted, industrial gunpowder city in the Realm of Life. Battle Traits
Amidst the Ghoul Mere: Greywater Fastness is from Ghyran.
Runelord: In your hero phase, ONE Greywater Fastness Runelord can chant the following prayer
Rune of Unfaltering Aim: On a 2+, select a friendly Greywater Fastness Ironweld Arsenal war machine within 3", until the start of your next hero phase it gets +1 to hit with its missile weapon attacks.
Home of the Great Ironweld Guilds: Friendly Greywater Fastness Ironweld Arsenal missile attacks have their maximum range increased by 3". In a pitched battle, you can include an additional artillery unit.
Command Ability:Salvo Fire: Use this in your shooting phase. Pick 1 friendly Greywater Fastness Freeguild Handgunners or Irondrakes unit wholly within 12" of a hero. Add 1 to hit rolls for missile attacks made by that unit until the end of the phase. Doesn't stack.
Command Traits
Seat on the Council: If this general is on the battlefield, roll a dice in your hero phase. On a 4+ you gain a CP. Drillmaster: Reroll hit rolls of 1 for friendly missile weapon attacks made by units wholly within 12" of this general as long as the general is more than 3" away from any enemy units. Ghoul Mere Ranger: Friendly units wholly within 12" of the general can run and still shoot later in the same turn.
Artefacts Of Power
Steam Piston Plate Mail: Add 1 to save rolls for the bearer. If the bearer does not have a mount, add 1 to its move. Runic Munitions: Pick 1 of the bearer's missile weapons, add 1 to its damage characteristic. Magnificient Macroscope: Start the game with 1 extra CP, and add 1 to hit for missile attacks made by the bearer.
Spell Lore
Descending Ash Cloud: Cast on a 6, pick an enemy unit within 18" that is visible to the caster, subtract 1 from hit rolls made by that unit until the start of your next hero phase. Eroding Blast: Cast on a 6, pick a terrain feature wholly within 18" and visible to the caster. Roll a die for every model within 1" of the feature. On a 5+ they suffer a mortal wound. In addition until your next hero phase that terrain gains the Deadly Scenery Rule. Choking Fumes: Cast on a 6, pick 1 enemy unit within 15" that is visible to them, roll a die for every model that is within 15". For each 5+ that unit suffers a mortal wound. Combine with balewind vortex to get a bit more range.
There is a limit to the number of Behemoths you can take. While having a handful of large, hard hitting multi wound models may look scary. You do kind of have to play the objective of whatever battleplan your using. I don't see how they can hold multiple objectives with a list such as that.
Most likely if you see a Steam tank commander you'll maybe only see 1 other tank in the list to make room for more useful units.
Also, lets not forget that the Steam Tank rules have changed as well.
Commodus Leitdorf Paints all of the Things!! The Breaking of the Averholme: An AoS Adventure
"We have clearly reached the point where only rampant and unchecked stabbing can save us." -Black Mage
Boss Salvage wrote: I actually looked at the Steam Tank rules, these things aren't behemoths or artillery or anything limited. So I suppose that answers that for now.
For fun, here's what Greywater Fastness does for them, according to 1d4chan:
Spoiler:
City Allegiance: Greywater Fastness (Ghyran)
The polluted, industrial gunpowder city in the Realm of Life.
Battle Traits
Amidst the Ghoul Mere: Greywater Fastness is from Ghyran.
Runelord: In your hero phase, ONE Greywater Fastness Runelord can chant the following prayer
Rune of Unfaltering Aim: On a 2+, select a friendly Greywater Fastness Ironweld Arsenal war machine within 3", until the start of your next hero phase it gets +1 to hit with its missile weapon attacks.
Home of the Great Ironweld Guilds: Friendly Greywater Fastness Ironweld Arsenal missile attacks have their maximum range increased by 3". In a pitched battle, you can include an additional artillery unit.
Command Ability:Salvo Fire: Use this in your shooting phase. Pick 1 friendly Greywater Fastness Freeguild Handgunners or Irondrakes unit wholly within 12" of a hero. Add 1 to hit rolls for missile attacks made by that unit until the end of the phase. Doesn't stack.
Command Traits
Seat on the Council: If this general is on the battlefield, roll a dice in your hero phase. On a 4+ you gain a CP.
Drillmaster: Reroll hit rolls of 1 for friendly missile weapon attacks made by units wholly within 12" of this general as long as the general is more than 3" away from any enemy units.
Ghoul Mere Ranger: Friendly units wholly within 12" of the general can run and still shoot later in the same turn.
Artefacts Of Power
Steam Piston Plate Mail: Add 1 to save rolls for the bearer. If the bearer does not have a mount, add 1 to its move.
Runic Munitions: Pick 1 of the bearer's missile weapons, add 1 to its damage characteristic.
Magnificient Macroscope: Start the game with 1 extra CP, and add 1 to hit for missile attacks made by the bearer.
Spell Lore
Descending Ash Cloud: Cast on a 6, pick an enemy unit within 18" that is visible to the caster, subtract 1 from hit rolls made by that unit until the start of your next hero phase.
Eroding Blast: Cast on a 6, pick a terrain feature wholly within 18" and visible to the caster. Roll a die for every model within 1" of the feature. On a 5+ they suffer a mortal wound. In addition until your next hero phase that terrain gains the Deadly Scenery Rule.
Choking Fumes: Cast on a 6, pick 1 enemy unit within 15" that is visible to them, roll a die for every model that is within 15". For each 5+ that unit suffers a mortal wound. Combine with balewind vortex to get a bit more range.
EDIT: Assuming these are the current warscrolls, as I have no way to know, besides them being linked to by GeeDub and having the right keywords.
Whether a unit is a Leader, Battleline, Artillery or Behemoth wouldn't show up on their warscroll, but in the Pitched Battle Profiles at the back of the battletome.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/10/02 16:16:40
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
I seriously doubt the 8-tank army is going to be that overpowered, even if steam tanks are an army running 4-6 of them will be superior for its ability to bring in other troops. Gristlegore could get away with it because it was still summoning in additional troops on top of those behemoths, and when push came to shove it lost to Blisterskin anyways.
Ghaz wrote: Whether a unit is a Leader, Battleline, Artillery or Behemoth wouldn't show up on their warscroll, but in the Pitched Battle Profiles at the back of the battletome.
Spoiler:
Linked image will show both the Steam Tank and Steam Tank Commander are Behemoths, so they will still be restricted as normal (Points are grayed out as I pulled it from Bell of Lost Souls)
Commodus Leitdorf Paints all of the Things!! The Breaking of the Averholme: An AoS Adventure
"We have clearly reached the point where only rampant and unchecked stabbing can save us." -Black Mage
Ghaz wrote: Whether a unit is a Leader, Battleline, Artillery or Behemoth wouldn't show up on their warscroll, but in the Pitched Battle Profiles at the back of the battletome.
Spoiler:
Linked image will show both the Steam Tank and Steam Tank Commander are Behemoths, so they will still be restricted as normal (Points are grayed out as I pulled it from Bell of Lost Souls)
I can't see that image. But riiiiiiiiight, I forgot that AOS doesn't put 'Behemoth' on the warscrolls of Behemoth class units. Honestly, that's straight up weird, but I do suppose that Behemoth has really nothing to do with anything except limiting army comp. A halfling riding a goat based on a 25mm round could be a Behemoth and thus limited in access ... even if it certainly defies expectations to do so.
So huh. Still wondering if COS will get a FAQ ala FEC, again given all the marketing hype. Though yet again, they could simply be gushing about Not Matched Play gaming, in which case I could put down two dozen Kharibdyss for great victory
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/10/02 17:48:54
Yeah ... but Bottle usually (I have no recollection of him ever not so using the word usually in case I have missed something) posts matched play games.
Automatically Appended Next Post: And Ben Johnson (lead designer, avid tournament matched play) is the owner of that army it looks like based on his own tweet. I'm heavily leaning towards thats a matched play legal force.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/10/02 18:10:29
They decided as of FEC that battleline trumps behemoth requirement, so it is matched play legal. But we already knew that a while ago when they did the preview article showing steam tanks could be battleline.
NinthMusketeer wrote: But we already knew that a while ago when they did the preview article showing steam tanks could be battleline.
Seems to me that a unit can be restricted as a Behemoth but still provide comp requirements as Battleline, unless of course that FECFAQ applies to all armies? I know from experience that that is entirely not how GW players tend to interpret army FAQs
EDIT: If it matters at all, the complete FAQ:
Q: In a Pitched Battle, Royal Terrogheists and Royal Zombie Dragons from a Gristlegore army are Battleline. Are they still counted Behemoths as well? A: No.
It is eminently plausible that this will apply to Stanks and Kharibs - part of me is still wondering if it's simply hidden in the COS book or even the BBB somewhere!
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2019/10/02 19:27:30
But I don't play competitively...and if I did I'd use my Gutbusters so I guess I don't care.
Seems silly though.
Commodus Leitdorf Paints all of the Things!! The Breaking of the Averholme: An AoS Adventure
"We have clearly reached the point where only rampant and unchecked stabbing can save us." -Black Mage
