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As others have said, TLJ and to some extent Solo combined with the fact that most new Star Wars content will be coming with Disney+, there's either not much to talk about, or too many people that will continue to rant about TLJ.

So while there are certainly plenty of people still excited about SW (me included), many of us don't want the discussion to spiral into TLJ bashing. Especially since threads have been locked because of it.

My personal opinion on TLJ is that I enjoyed watching it, but I'm holding my judgement of it until I have seen and digested Rise of Skywalker, which could easily "retcon" some of the decisions made for TLJ to subvert expectations without undercutting the impact of those decisions

So in that regard, I am excited to see what's next

-

I love Star Wars; I just have lost all love of the fanbase, which means I've lost a lot of love of the shared experience. Particularly here. This place is just misery I can't seem to completely quit.

I care a lot more than I did after the prequel trilogy launched,

but a lot less than I did when the original trilogy (and various bits of the EU) were all there was

but its not as if I'd rush to buy tickets, or cancel plans to go out to watch a tv show (and certainly not buy into a subscription service for it either)

 Manchu wrote:
Haven’t heard about Star Wars for a couple of months, so just checking.

To be honest, no. The inner 12 year old that was obsessed with all things Star Wars has been pretty well put to bed at this point. Nothing in any of the new stuff captures my interest or imagination, the characters don't do anything for me.

I'll always be a fan of the original trilogy and a chunk of the 80's/90's videogame/book/comic stuff, but I really just have no interest in the newer stuff. Spoilers don't even bother me anymore, the emotional investment was pretty well destroyed by the last few flicks (save for the amazing Vader scene in Rogue One).

Even beyond all the character issues, incomprehensible and nonsensical plots, the Marvel-esque nature of the action, it's just gotten too...obvious and the subtlety thrown away. These are no longer movies pulled from imagination but constructed with specific product and sales goals in mind. Upon seeing the Porgs, my immersion in whatever was happening in the movie was absolutely obliterated by the painfully obvious commercial nature of their inclusion

But that's ok. The array of scifi stuff out there today pales in comparison to what we used to have, and there are plenty of alternatives to follow and capture imaginations.

I love star wars. Though I'm less connected to it now that I am an adult and don't have time to devour every book and comic alongside my job, family, and other hobbies.

I am excited about the new movie, and I hope it redeems The Last Jedi. I heavily disliked many choices made in that movie, and I hope that The Rise of Skywalker helps to give context to those choices in a way that makes sense.

It seems that even for those who like TLJ the existence of TLJ has diminished their enjoyment of SW, even if it is indirect (b/c they don’t enjoy other SW fans/ex-fans talking about not enjoying TLJ).

I will go see Ep 9 out of a sense of obligation and morbid curiosity.

Was listening to the RotJ OST whilst driving the other day. There really is just a huge quality shift between the OT and everything else.

Maybe we aren't supposed to retain the same relationship with a franchise our entire lives. Perhaps it's because I moved on from SW many years ago -- and have kinda passed that torch to my kids, whose heroes are Rey, Poe and Finn and not Luke, Leia and Han -- that I really embraced TLJ and its themes. *shrug*

George Lucas says it's kid stuff. Maybe more fans should listen.

I don't really care for it outside of the OT. They're 3 of my all time favourite films, but the movies since just haven't done it for me. I've never read any of the books, and Star Wars games have just let me down recently (looking at you Battlefront).

 Manchu wrote:
It seems that even for those who like TLJ the existence of TLJ has diminished their enjoyment of SW, even if it is indirect (b/c they don’t enjoy other SW fans/ex-fans talking about not enjoying TLJ).
.

For me, it's not so much any kind of diminished enjoyment, just a sadness of sorts that any attempt to be remotely positive and excited about anything Star Wars (specifically, doing so in online communities) is just going to get buried amongst reams of angst, criticism and negativity. My love of Star Wars remains as strong as ever, but there's no point in really talking about or expressing that in certain circles because no one is going to engage with that in good faith. Instead, I'm just going to get people trying to tell me that I'm 'objectively' wrong for thinking a certain thing about a certain film (for instance, my belief that TLJ is a masterpiece or that TFA's use of nostalgia is not a flaw but a vital component of why I enjoy it so much), or people just using that conversation to repeat their same copy-paste rant about something that they've said a dozen times before that has no bearing on the actual discussion.

For instance, I think there's a fascinating discussion to be had (depending on how things shake out in Rise of Skywalker) about the narratives of Vader and Kylo. Where they parallel, where they differ, why those choices were made and what they mean, how one might be significantly more interesting from a storytelling perspective than the other (or not). But if I start that thread, I know that conversation won't happen. Instead, the conversation will be endless repeats of the sentiment that Kylo can't possibly be as interesting as Vader because the films he's in are 'garbage' and therefore there's no merit discussing it, not to mention those that are going to attack for me even daring to suggest that the new characters can be as interesting as their predecessors. And while, I'm sure, there will also be plenty of people who are willing to discuss it in good faith, there's inevitably going to be a lot of bantha poodoo to wade through to get to those points.


Honestly, though, I'm not sure this is really confined just to Star Wars, it's more of a trend in modern fandom as a whole, where certain portions are far more interested in being critical, derisive and contemptuous than actually talking about whatever the thing in question is, or actually having fun with it. I love Star Trek Discovery, and am ridiculously excited for Picard, but there's little point mentioning either of these things in Dakka's Star Trek thread*, because that's just page after page of negativity and pessimism. I wouldn't get to share that excitement with anyone of a like mind and instead a) that line of conversation would be a dead end or b) people would ask me to justify my enjoyment of/excitement for a show that is so 'obviously' awful. I don't get anything out of that, and it's of no interest to the people who have such negative views to see anyone being positive, so there's no point getting in on that discussion (or really, that fandom at large).

I couldn't necessarily say why this has become so pronounced in recent years, but certainly after the last 7-8 years (the Hobbit movies being the first thing where I observed this effect) it seems that online fandoms and media have often focused far more on tearing things down, over-analysing them for the most minute flaws or seeking to be cynical about their own enjoyment of something rather than just... y'know, enjoying the thing they're supposedly fans of. It's far more common for a trailer to be met with cynicism and pessimism than excitement or hope, for instance (though strangely, Marvel seems to be the only major franchise to have avoided this to some extent) and after something comes out, the ratio of videos/articles/posts about 'Why Thing X is Garbage' versus 'I enjoyed Thing X' is almost always a steep one.

Of course, this is in part because such hyperbolic criticism gains more clicks, but it wouldn't if it didn't mirror trends that already existed in the culture it serves and targets. The reason these takedowns and nitpicky criticisms get far more clicks than things that are more positive or even just more objective is clearly, to some extent, because that's what people want to see.

And as someone that doesn't like that sort of content at all and would rather just enjoy something on its own merits, focus on the positives over the negatives and generally approach things a bit more optimistically, there's just very little point in engaging with the fandoms and cultures that just lap up this relentlessly negative stuff.


*I use this as an example as it's close to hand and demonstrates the phenomenon, not because it's the zenith of this effect or to attack any specific users.

A certain political commentator put it best on YouTube a few months ago. The first films were ground breaking and epic, the latest ones are forced, with shoehorned roles, trying to satisfy a modern social agenda.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Thank you for making my point.

At this stage, what does it matter? Your lack of enjoyment of a film in no way reduces my enjoyment.

But when a thread is about, say, the new Thrawn trilogy (just nabbed the third part), and it quickly descends into how much four or five posters didn't enjoy The Last Jedi? That's draining. Very, very draining.

I genuinely don't care if you don't like. I genuinely don't care if you do like it. To each their own. But do we have to hear about it in every single thread even tangentially linked to the wider Star Wars universe??

I'd wager no. No we don't.

"SIGH" - Hello could you be more passive agressive.

Maybe not deciding what people can and can not post on a thread would be a more adult thing to do - please cite your authoirity.

for me Star Wars was a bunch of fun films, its not fun anymore - it was never especially important for me - but good fun.

It for good or ill is dominated by a film that YOU somehow decide no one else is allowed to mention - the arrogance is astounding.

The LEGO Star War series / movies though remain brilliant fun.

I still enjoy classic Star Wars, the original trilogy. A fun, not-so-serious space romp.

I didn't enjoy the prequels. I have not enjoyed the new films with the exception of Rogue One (which are arguably my favourite Star Wars film thus far). The new ones have killed off my interest in "more" Star Wars though. I no longer care. I saw the trailer for the next film and simply couldn't care less.

Could I be interested by an offshoot film or TV series by a competent director? Maybe, but my enthusiasm or interest is at an all time low.

I still enjoy classic Star Wars, the original trilogy. A fun, not-so-serious space romp.

Agreed - same here - not sure why people keep saying any naysayers are somehow fixated on its vital cultural importance - its not how awesome the old filsm were - they were pretty good but for mnay of us how unbeleivable awful TlJ was.

who directs the LEGO movies/series - they should get them to do the next live action film

 Manchu wrote:
It seems that even for those who like TLJ the existence of TLJ has diminished their enjoyment of SW, even if it is indirect (b/c they don’t enjoy other SW fans/ex-fans talking about not enjoying TLJ).

I feel like you're bending over backwards to blame TLJ for what is ultimately an issue with the fandom proper.

Thats not to say you're wrong about the constant bombardment being draining though.

I'm transitioning our Edge of the Empire game into an Only War one precisely because we can't seem to get through a session without someone bringing up that they're not going to see the new one and how ruined the franchise is and exactly who's fault it is. I see no reason to put work in week after week preparing maps and encounters, practicing voices etc, if all it does is serve to remind them of something they hate now.

It's going to get even worse once 9 comes out. Yes, it's script fixer is the guy who excreted Justice League and Batman V Superman, but even if it somehow miraculously isn't awful the people on both sides are too invested, and the discourse will be just as hostile.

I love Star Wars. I will always love Star Wars. Although I do accept the fact that, as an older fan, none of the new stuff is being made for me. I can live with that as that is just how these things tend to work out. I will always have the EU (Like, seriously I have SO MUCH EU stuff)

I just straight up cannot stand "Star Wars" fans. I am so done with them I just don't bother to talk about Star wars with anyone anymore. All I ever hear from them is how much they hate Star Wars.

Like...dude...If you dislike it so much, I got news for you, you are not a fan.

Empire Strikes Back is not the best film. It is a movie about people flying away from things for 2 hours....there, I said it! Nothing happens in that film. It is a VERY good movie for a film where nothing happens, props to the director, but I stand by that statement.

 Paradigm wrote:
(though strangely, Marvel seems to be the only major franchise to have avoided this to some extent)

It's coming. Now that they've hit a coda on the major story arc people were invested in, people will look to find ways to excuse themselves to jump ship. This forum is already managing to make each movie feel inevitably miserable; check out that Thor 4 thread or the Captain Marvel thread before it.

We've just seen an era where fans start to feel like they have control over the content. I see people reference Bioware buckling on the end of ME3 as the turning point, but honestly it seems like it was an issue long before. Star Wars is easily one of the worst fandoms for this. Comics used to top them, but the MCU was placating enough to not make it an issue until it had drawn in an audience that grossly outmatched its niche fandom.

 Captain Joystick wrote:

 Manchu wrote:
It seems that even for those who like TLJ the existence of TLJ has diminished their enjoyment of SW, even if it is indirect (b/c they don’t enjoy other SW fans/ex-fans talking about not enjoying TLJ).

I feel like you're bending over backwards to blame TLJ for what is ultimately an issue with the fandom proper.

Thats not to say you're wrong about the constant bombardment being draining though.

I'm transitioning our Edge of the Empire game into an Only War one precisely because we can't seem to get through a session without someone bringing up that they're not going to see the new one and how ruined the franchise is and exactly who's fault it is. I see no reason to put work in week after week preparing maps and encounters, practicing voices etc, if all it does is serve to remind them of something they hate now.

It's going to get even worse once 9 comes out. Yes, it's script fixer is the guy who excreted Justice League and Batman V Superman, but even if it somehow miraculously isn't awful the people on both sides are too invested, and the discourse will be just as hostile.

The funny part for me is that ROTJ could never stand up to the hyper-criticism people use against the prequels and sequels. It isn't a very good film. The direction, script and performances are the worst of the originals, and it's not even close. Even Harrison Ford looks like he should be doing dinner theater. Cripes, people carp about porgs, but at least they're just scene dressing. The Ewoks represent far more brazen pandering, and they're real characters and an important part of that film's story!

But ROTJ gets a pass because nostalgia. Which is a very powerful poison, and a reason why superfans seem so constantly upset with franchises that should be their favorites. #NotMyWhatever

It's very hard to live up to some golden ideal that doesn't actually exist. If I was running a studio, I probably wouldn't give two gaks about the superfans of any given franchise either. You can never please them, so feth 'em. Aim at the fans a step or two toward the center, general audiences, and everyone in between, and let the superfans not care anymore.

 Commodus Leitdorf wrote:


Empire Strikes Back is not the best film. It is a movie about people flying away from things for 2 hours....there, I said it! Nothing happens in that film. It is a VERY good movie for a film where nothing happens, props to the director, but I stand by that statement.

Hrm, I would disagree with that characterization.

Empire is where Luke is forged into a Jedi. He goes from lucky plucky kid in the first flick, is put through hell in Empire, and emerges complete in RotJ. Han and Leia's relationship begins, Han's backstory is fleshed out, Vader's place is revealed, etc. They fight Wompas, Stormtroopers, Vader, Space Worms, their own fears, ATAT's, etc.

Lots of stuff happens in that flick, including a ton of the character development. It's the story of how Luke becomes a Jedi.

Whatever else one may feel about Star Wars as a franchise, Empire absolutely is not just people running away for 2 hours.

 LunarSol wrote:

 Paradigm wrote:
(though strangely, Marvel seems to be the only major franchise to have avoided this to some extent)

It's coming. Now that they've hit a coda on the major story arc people were invested in, people will look to find ways to excuse themselves to jump ship. This forum is already managing to make each movie feel inevitably miserable; check out that Thor 4 thread or the Captain Marvel thread before it.

We've just seen an era where fans start to feel like they have control over the content. I see people reference Bioware buckling on the end of ME3 as the turning point, but honestly it seems like it was an issue long before. Star Wars is easily one of the worst fandoms for this. Comics used to top them, but the MCU was placating enough to not make it an issue until it had drawn in an audience that grossly outmatched its niche fandom.

The Marvel brand is utterly amazing. The fact that a movie as mediocre as Captain Marvel made a *billion* dollars is still mindblowing to me. I know what you're saying, and I agree with you to an extent. I hesitate to make any predictions though, just because strong brands create a deep reservoir of goodwill, and Marvel's brand is extra-special.

It's not a good time for creative people in that industry, though. Audiences aren't inclined to show up for big new ideas. They'll show up for franchises, remakes, sequels, etc., but if you fail to check all the fan service boxes, they'll turn on you hard. And creative work isn't about checking boxes. It's no wonder so many are turning to streaming services and premium channels. Those give creators a better chance of finding their audiences. For example (and getting back on topic), even if Favreau's Mandalorian series is excellent, there will almost certainly be loud complaints from some corner or other of the SW fanbase. But at least it won't have the pressure of needing to open to $100-200 million. It'll have more room to find its audience.

For a lot of us I think SW is dead. Taken over by a PC company trying to score brownie points with the public instead of being true to it's fanbase. 100 years from now I think people will still watch the original films because they will have classic appeal. The might even watch the prequels if the were inserted in the story arch and they enjoy that aspect of it. Then theyll come to the pile of crap that is ep 7/8 and they will literally ask questions like..."What happened in the second decade of the first millennium that made everything made in that era start to suck a lot?"

For clarity? If you don’t like TLJ? Great. It’s not a film for you.

But why not dedicate a thread to criticism of the movie? Because my issue is that since Chrimbo 2017, no thread about Star Wars on Dakka has escaped people derailing the topic with complaining about The Last Jedi.

Hey, I get it. There are many films I really don’t like. Like, at all. Such as Donnie Darko, Justice League, Wonder Woman and pretty much anything Anime.

But I don’t harsh anyone’s mellow by constantly, relentlessly criticising them at the slightest excuse. Sure, I may comment such as ‘I didn’t enjoy X, and I think Y is an awful actor/actress’ now and again. But I don’t gatecrash threads to do so. Seriously. I cannot stand Anime. It’s just not for me. So I just don’t drop into the Anime thread. Because whilst I don’t personally respect the medium, I can respect the differing opinions of others.

To recap. I genuinely don’t care what anyone else thinks of TLJ. Love it? Great. Like it? Great. Not to keen? Great. Utterly loathe it? Great. That’s you being you, and that’s good. Just, time and a place.

If the topic is Clone Wars? TLJ is not relevant. If the topic is X-Wing? TLJ is not relevant. If the topic is the Prequels? TLJ is not relevant. If the topic is the trailer for Episode IX? TLJ is only partly relevant.

I am not policing anyone’s opinion. I am not challenging anyone’s opinion. But I am challenging behaviour and general manners.

 gorgon wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:

 Paradigm wrote:
(though strangely, Marvel seems to be the only major franchise to have avoided this to some extent)

It's coming. Now that they've hit a coda on the major story arc people were invested in, people will look to find ways to excuse themselves to jump ship. This forum is already managing to make each movie feel inevitably miserable; check out that Thor 4 thread or the Captain Marvel thread before it.

We've just seen an era where fans start to feel like they have control over the content. I see people reference Bioware buckling on the end of ME3 as the turning point, but honestly it seems like it was an issue long before. Star Wars is easily one of the worst fandoms for this. Comics used to top them, but the MCU was placating enough to not make it an issue until it had drawn in an audience that grossly outmatched its niche fandom.

The Marvel brand is utterly amazing. The fact that a movie as mediocre as Captain Marvel made a *billion* dollars is still mindblowing to me. I know what you're saying, and I agree with you to an extent. I hesitate to make any predictions though, just because strong brands create a deep reservoir of goodwill, and Marvel's brand is extra-special.

It's not a good time for creative people in that industry, though. Audiences aren't inclined to show up for big new ideas. They'll show up for franchises, remakes, sequels, etc., but if you fail to check all the fan service boxes, they'll turn on you hard. And creative work isn't about checking boxes. It's no wonder so many are turning to streaming services and premium channels. Those give creators a better chance of finding their audiences. For example (and getting back on topic), even if Favreau's Mandilorian series is excellent, there will almost certainly be loud complaints from some corner or other of the SW fanbase. But at least it won't have the pressure of needing to open to $100-200 million. It'll have more room to find its audience.

Something about it appeals to everyone. Even their bad films make billions. Then again - a lot of this has to do with ticket pricing doesn't it?

 gorgon wrote:

The funny part for me is that ROTJ could never stand up to the hyper-criticism people use against the prequels and sequels. It isn't a very good film. The direction, script and performances are the worst of the originals, and it's not even close. Even Harrison Ford looks like he should be doing dinner theater. Cripes, people carp about porgs, but at least they're just scene dressing. The Ewoks represent far more brazen pandering, and they're real characters and an important part of that film's story!

But ROTJ gets a pass because nostalgia. Which is a very powerful poison, and a reason why superfans seem so constantly upset with franchises that should be their favorites. #NotMyWhatever

It's very hard to live up to some golden ideal that doesn't actually exist. If I was running a studio, I probably wouldn't give two gaks about the superfans of any given franchise either. You can never please them, so feth 'em. Aim at the fans a step or two toward the center, general audiences, and everyone in between, and let the superfans not care anymore.

I mean you see the same thing happening with the prequels right now. Everyone from my generation who experienced the prequels as kids love those movies despite how terrible they are. I didn't recognize those as bad movies until I was like 16. We have nostalgia for the admittedly bad prequels. Once this last movie comes out, it will be regarded as either great or terrible, the judgment will be passed on the trilogy as a whole. Then in 15 years. The kids who grew up with this will create r/sequelmemes on reddit and the nostalgia trip will make it popular again.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
For clarity? If you don’t like TLJ? Great. It’s not a film for you.

But why not dedicate a thread to criticism of the movie? Because my issue is that since Chrimbo 2017, no thread about Star Wars on Dakka has escaped people derailing the topic with complaining about The Last Jedi.

Hey, I get it. There are many films I really don’t like. Like, at all. Such as Donnie Darko, Justice League, Wonder Woman and pretty much anything Anime.

But I don’t harsh anyone’s mellow by constantly, relentlessly criticising them at the slightest excuse. Sure, I may comment such as ‘I didn’t enjoy X, and I think Y is an awful actor/actress’ now and again. But I don’t gatecrash threads to do so. Seriously. I cannot stand Anime. It’s just not for me. So I just don’t drop into the Anime thread. Because whilst I don’t personally respect the medium, I can respect the differing opinions of others.

To recap. I genuinely don’t care what anyone else thinks of TLJ. Love it? Great. Like it? Great. Not to keen? Great. Utterly loathe it? Great. That’s you being you, and that’s good. Just, time and a place.

If the topic is Clone Wars? TLJ is not relevant. If the topic is X-Wing? TLJ is not relevant. If the topic is the Prequels? TLJ is not relevant. If the topic is the trailer for Episode IX? TLJ is only partly relevant.

I am not policing anyone’s opinion. I am not challenging anyone’s opinion. But I am challenging behaviour and general manners.

The dude literally asked if people still care about SW and I gave my answer and supported it. Tried to add a little perspective too because I think 100 years from now people will look back at TLJ and judge it as critically as we do. Also. TLJ is a SW film so bringing it up is relevant.

balmong7 wrote:

I mean you see the same thing happening with the prequels right now. Everyone from my generation who experienced the prequels as kids love those movies despite how terrible they are. I didn't recognize those as bad movies until I was like 16. We have nostalgia for the admittedly bad prequels. Once this last movie comes out, it will be regarded as either great or terrible, the judgment will be passed on the trilogy as a whole. Then in 15 years. The kids who grew up with this will create r/sequelmemes on reddit and the nostalgia trip will make it popular again.

There will also be a decade of extended continuity of wildly varying quality to cherry pick the best parts from.

I don't really care for the prequel movies themselves, but the era is a lot more interesting now than it was when Revenge hit theaters.

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Commodus Leitdorf wrote:


Empire Strikes Back is not the best film. It is a movie about people flying away from things for 2 hours....there, I said it! Nothing happens in that film. It is a VERY good movie for a film where nothing happens, props to the director, but I stand by that statement.

Hrm, I would disagree with that characterization.

Empire is where Luke is forged into a Jedi. He goes from lucky plucky kid in the first flick, is put through hell in Empire, and emerges complete in RotJ. Han and Leia's relationship begins, Han's backstory is fleshed out, Vader's place is revealed, etc. They fight Wompas, Stormtroopers, Vader, Space Worms, their own fears, ATAT's, etc.

Lots of stuff happens in that flick, including a ton of the character development. It's the story of how Luke becomes a Jedi.

Whatever else one may feel about Star Wars as a franchise, Empire absolutely is not just people running away for 2 hours.

The very first scene of that film is a Probe Droid flying away from a Star Destroyer.
The very last scene of the film is the rebel fleet flying off into the distance (after watching the Millenium Falcon fly away from the Rebel fleet as well.
Everything in the middle of the movie is people flying away from stuff, whether that be more Star Destroyers, Tie Fighters, Giant space Monsters, Star Destroyers again etc...

Now I do not say this to disparage the film or anything like that. As I said, I like love Star wars and will watch it over and over and never be bored. The reason I say this critique is that those gatekeeping Star Wars fans who like to dump on all things Star Wars always have the same refrain. "Really the only good Star wars movie is the Empire Strikes back. Everything else is either kiddy or not well made." (aka the prequels).

So I always like to highlight the fact ESB is not the godly movie they seem to think. Much like how Randall gave his little rant in Clerks 2 about how the Lord of the Rings movies are just a series of films of people walking for 3 hours. ESB is just a film of people flying away from stuff for 2 hours.

And don't get me started on peoples opinions of Return of The Jedi. I'll admit that it is by far my favorite Star wars film, so I am 100% biased when I say this, but I will defend that film to the death. Especially as I find the majority of the critiques lazy and overly hung up on the Ewoks.

Seriously, do you honestly believe that a native population, with superior tactical knowledge of the terrain, with pre-planned ambushes and hit and run guerrilla tactics, superior camouflage and inspired by the presence of C3PO a Golden God couldn't defeat the Empire troops? Come one, they were outclassed from the start.

Meanwhile any arguments against ROTJ revolve around "lol Care bears are dumb".

Anyone that doesn’t enjoy the two Ewok movies is a bunghole

 Commodus Leitdorf wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Commodus Leitdorf wrote:


Empire Strikes Back is not the best film. It is a movie about people flying away from things for 2 hours....there, I said it! Nothing happens in that film. It is a VERY good movie for a film where nothing happens, props to the director, but I stand by that statement.

Hrm, I would disagree with that characterization.

Empire is where Luke is forged into a Jedi. He goes from lucky plucky kid in the first flick, is put through hell in Empire, and emerges complete in RotJ. Han and Leia's relationship begins, Han's backstory is fleshed out, Vader's place is revealed, etc. They fight Wompas, Stormtroopers, Vader, Space Worms, their own fears, ATAT's, etc.

Lots of stuff happens in that flick, including a ton of the character development. It's the story of how Luke becomes a Jedi.

Whatever else one may feel about Star Wars as a franchise, Empire absolutely is not just people running away for 2 hours.

The very first scene of that film is a Probe Droid flying away from a Star Destroyer.
The very last scene of the film is the rebel fleet flying off into the distance (after watching the Millenium Falcon fly away from the Rebel fleet as well.
Everything in the middle of the movie is people flying away from stuff, whether that be more Star Destroyers, Tie Fighters, Giant space Monsters, Star Destroyers again etc...

Now I do not say this to disparage the film or anything like that. As I said, I like love Star wars and will watch it over and over and never be bored. The reason I say this critique is that those gatekeeping Star Wars fans who like to dump on all things Star Wars always have the same refrain. "Really the only good Star wars movie is the Empire Strikes back. Everything else is either kiddy or not well made." (aka the prequels).

So I always like to highlight the fact ESB is not the godly movie they seem to think. Much like how Randall gave his little rant in Clerks 2 about how the Lord of the Rings movies are just a series of films of people walking for 3 hours. ESB is just a film of people flying away from stuff for 2 hours.

And don't get me started on peoples opinions of Return of The Jedi. I'll admit that it is by far my favorite Star wars film, so I am 100% biased when I say this, but I will defend that film to the death. Especially as I find the majority of the critiques lazy and overly hung up on the Ewoks.

Seriously, do you honestly believe that a native population, with superior tactical knowledge of the terrain, with pre-planned ambushes and hit and run guerrilla tactics, superior camouflage and inspired by the presence of C3PO a Golden God couldn't defeat the Empire troops? Come one, they were outclassed from the start.

Meanwhile any arguments against ROTJ revolve around "lol Care bears are dumb".

Indeed. I'd venture to say you care more about the story arch than anything else. I am much the same way and ROTJ and TPM (which gets trashed a lot for what I think are unfair reasons). I don't care that Jar Jar binks is stupid. It doesn't ruin the film for me though I more or less just day dream a bit about how awesome watching darthmaul and Obiwan fight in some kind of cloud city esq setting will be and boom - Im there in no time and loving it. I mean heck...Jhin and Obi are really annoyed by him too...That is kind of the point of him. ROTJ though is incredible. It is the epic clash of good and evil and not only does good win out (which everyone should love) Good converts evil to good. There is literally nothing better than that.

 Mr Morden wrote:

who directs the LEGO movies/series - they should get them to do the next live action film

They already got them to do one - Solo. It was turning into a dumpster fire, so they were fired and replaced with Ron Howard.

 Commodus Leitdorf wrote:
Seriously, do you honestly believe that a native population, with superior tactical knowledge of the terrain, with pre-planned ambushes and hit and run guerrilla tactics, superior camouflage and inspired by the presence of C3PO a Golden God couldn't defeat the Empire troops? Come one, they were outclassed from the start.

This is satire, right?