Does anyone still care about Star Wars?

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**LunarSol**

Captain Joystick wrote:

So I for one, hope she remains a 'nobody' because an assertion that anybody can be a Jedi is a powerful one.

I'm TERRIFIED JJ's going to undo this. I really, really don't want Rey's parents to be important (not that it matters after someone writes a pointlessly overdone backstory like every other background character). If there's any secret connection I'd go for, its that her parents actually abandoned her at the academy and Kylo was unwilling to kill her and instead hid her away on Jakku as a big nod to his "failed to be Vader" origins.

I'm pretty much in the camp that Kylo is probably the most interesting character in a Star Wars film at this point and a huge part of what I love about TLJ is seeing scenes that I had imagine would play out in the prequels done right. Seeing the way Snoke asserts dominance over Kylo (and that its his undoing as Luke suggested) pays off all the way back to the broken dog we see in Vader in RotJ that is never really properly explored. It's probably the best exploration of the Force we've seen since it started being handed out as color coded skill trees in videogames.

**Galef**

Captain Joystick wrote:
I hear that, but I don't really agree. Star Wars fans are weirdly obsessed with the characters' bloodlines and its something I blame the old EU's insistence that every force sensitive they ever introduced had to be the secret grandkid of some Jedi hero in order to lend them some sense of legitimacy, but it's something that George rejected softly with the 'Jedi forbid love' thing and Disney appeared to reject stiffly with the little orphan Jedi and Rey's apparent (so far) lack of pedigree.

Even if midichlorians muddle the waters a bit.

Rey comes into the story carrying the same baggage as those fans: She believes she needs to be from someone of significance in order to be someone of significance or else she doesn't matter. We see this in both movies: in the way she hollowly insists her parents will come back despite being otherwise grounded and aware, in the way she tries to make sense of her connection to the force by trying to figure out how her parents factor in, and in both films where being confronted with the fact that they were never going to come back for her brings her to tears.

So I for one, hope she remains a 'nobody' because an assertion that anybody can be a Jedi is a powerful one.

Which is certainly valid and broadens the scope of SW, but from a narrative perspective, the "saga" films are intentionally about the Skywalker clan and how "special" they are in the grand scheme of things.
The story is about the Skywalkers and should end still being about them (and not just Kylo)

If, however, Rey was presented as a nobody in TFA, I'd be ok with that. But instead, she was HEAVILY hinted at being important and connected. Why else would Kylo have freaked out about some rando "WHAT GIRL!?" in that movie? Or why did they have so many parallels between her and Luke/Anakin.
From a story telling pov, it's just....unsatisfying to set it up like that to subvert those expectations.....unless EpIX retcons it for a bigger payoff.

-

**Mr Morden**

Backfire wrote:
Mr Morden wrote:

1. No totally different - the crime lords are part of the problem which has the Empire as the top evil. It supposed to be a whole new world with a vague new Republic, having one dodgy criminal / arms dealer say that oh no's he sells guns to military is not exactly highlighting the evil - its just pretending that they are trying to say something when the whole fillm is an empty of any message as a really empty thing.

2. Nope - this was just crap lazy writing - coparing Infinity Gauntlet to the gak pile that is TLJ is hilarious - in the former they take time and effort to make thier film - not throw it to a bunch of kids with crayons. Battle of Winterfell was awful -not TLJ awful but getting there. As i said the film was already hideously tedious - having a happy go lucky fun ride (escaping the inescapble pursuit) to casino world to do nothing, fail at that and then fail again when they get back was just wasting more time and showing how stupid the entire slow motion chase of tedium was.

3. The Rebels were not stupid If you look up stupid in the dictionary it has a joint entry for the First Order and the Rebels

The ring is agian massively different - if you can;t see the diffference I really don't know what to say or where you should get help.

1. Crime lords existed during the Old Republic, they existed during the Empire, they exist during the New Republic. Why would this be particularly shocking or preposterous or a 'message' or 'statement' of some kind which you think it apparently is? Hey, in very first Star Wars movie heroes employ services of a blatant criminal and killer.

2. By same logic I could say that whole battle in Wakanda was just gigantic waste of time, since Thanos was going to come anyway with enormous powers which would render the whole battle irrelevant, which it did. And I was talking about original Infinity Gauntlet storyline, the comic, which used similar storytelling structure: everything went wrong for the heroes again and again and every glimmer of hope was dashed, with nearly all heroes brutally killed or maimed until Thanos was utterly supreme - except for tiny oversight which he made and his whole scheme came crashing down. Oops. As for Battle of Winterfel, it was very well structured story with excellent poignancy but which suffered from several poor writing decisions, most notably almost none of the protagonists dying after being 30+ minutes in obvious verge of death, which lessened its overall impact.

It's common and quite basic storytelling structure. Your idea basically seems to be that the villains and heroes should always trade successes tit for tat like two pro wrestlers trading wins and putting each other over. But it is nonsensical to think that every story buildup should follow similar structure, there are number of ways to build the emotion and suspense.

3. It really seems to me that you can't tell the difference? Frodo dumped his escorts without explaining his reasons for them and proceeded alone (though Sam followed him). As a result he was caught by Shelob and then by Orcs. Sauron was not expecting them, it was just his normal security for spies etc. On the surface, whole enterprise seems exceedingly stupid, which is what Denethor called it.

I really wish you would read my posts...I have had a crap year and this sort of gak makes me want to explain yet again and /or scream my hatred at you for paragraphs - but I won't, becuase I am too tired and life is too short.

**BobtheInquisitor**

I almost hope the RLM predictions of time travel are accurate. Instead of going out with a whimper, the Sequel franchise may as well douse itself in flaming gasoline, soil itself, and then jump head first through a chipper shredder while clucking like a chicken.

**Mr Morden**

BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I almost hope the RLM predictions of time travel are accurate. Instead of going out with a whimper, the Sequel franchise may as well douse itself in flaming gasoline, soil itself, and then jump head first through a chipper shredder while clucking like a chicken.

Was that not what they did in the TLJ.

Time travel could be good if done well - but I am highly dubious that they have the writing quality of those involved with Endgame.

**Voss**

BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I almost hope the RLM predictions of time travel are accurate. Instead of going out with a whimper, the Sequel franchise may as well douse itself in flaming gasoline, soil itself, and then jump head first through a chipper shredder while clucking like a chicken.

Its better than the probably-more-accurate rumors I saw on the Making Star Wars site a couple weeks back. They seemed entirely serious about it, to the point of warning people not to share them because 'spoilers.'

If they're true, though... Its going to be a wacky ride. Painful if you still care, but hilarious if fans flipping out in bouts of nerd rage can strike you as funny.
Though some will take it super serious, I'm sure.

**Ensis Ferrae**

Captain Joystick wrote:
I hear that, but I don't really agree. Star Wars fans are weirdly obsessed with the characters' bloodlines and its something I blame the old EU's insistence that every force sensitive they ever introduced had to be the secret grandkid of some Jedi hero in order to lend them some sense of legitimacy, but it's something that George rejected softly with the 'Jedi forbid love' thing and Disney appeared to reject stiffly with the little orphan Jedi and Rey's apparent (so far) lack of pedigree.

Even if midichlorians muddle the waters a bit.

One thing that I kind of wish they'd do is sort of introduce a bit of DnD logic to force users. . . By this I mean for instance, the difference between Wizards and Sorcerers. . . Ya know, one studies for years to learn their spells/abilities, so they can do more, but less powerful things, while the other kinda just does it and as a result does "less", but does it more powerfully.

In a Jedi context, sure that may mean that *everyone* does one armed handstands while force stacking rocks on Dantooine, but the intent for each "type" is completely different.

In reference to Ren, again, I think they really screwed up/missed opportunities for great screen events. Take TFA, (spoiler, not really spoiler) the scene with Ben and Han. . . IF they hadn't fethed up by having Kylo remove his helmet so that we already know who he is, we could have this helmeted, menacing baddie having this scene with Han and right before he activates his lightsaber, he says something to the effect of "now you shall meet Ben again" . . . Gives the fans the notion that Han/Leia's kid, Ben, is "dead" even if it is later revealed in either EP 8 or 9 that Ben is in fact Kylo. I guess, really, it does bug me more than it probably should that they had such a wasted opportunity with the bad guy in the new series. There's just something that, to me, is inherently "better" about a mystery with certain characters

**BobtheInquisitor**

Mr Morden wrote:
BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I almost hope the RLM predictions of time travel are accurate. Instead of going out with a whimper, the Sequel franchise may as well douse itself in flaming gasoline, soil itself, and then jump head first through a chipper shredder while clucking like a chicken.

Was that not what they did in the TLJ.

Time travel could be good if done well - but I am highly dubious that they have the writing quality of those involved with Endgame.

TLJ was more Star Wars staring hard into your eyes while lowering its hand into a garbage disposal.

"Done well" never describes a JJ Abrams plot line.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Bloodline reveals were a big part of classic sci fi, from The Demolished Man to Dune. The OT was a love letter to the old serials and pulp stories. In comparison, the ST is a sext to the OT.

**Voss**

Ensis Ferrae wrote:
Captain Joystick wrote:
I hear that, but I don't really agree. Star Wars fans are weirdly obsessed with the characters' bloodlines and its something I blame the old EU's insistence that every force sensitive they ever introduced had to be the secret grandkid of some Jedi hero in order to lend them some sense of legitimacy, but it's something that George rejected softly with the 'Jedi forbid love' thing and Disney appeared to reject stiffly with the little orphan Jedi and Rey's apparent (so far) lack of pedigree.

Even if midichlorians muddle the waters a bit.

One thing that I kind of wish they'd do is sort of introduce a bit of DnD logic to force users. . . By this I mean for instance, the difference between Wizards and Sorcerers. . . Ya know, one studies for years to learn their spells/abilities, so they can do more, but less powerful things, while the other kinda just does it and as a result does "less", but does it more powerfully.

That was done in some of the secondary media. Both the clone wars cartoon series and various RPG incarnations. The witches and other force adepts had different approaches to force spells/powers.

**LunarSol**

FWIW, they introduced Time Travel near the end of Rebels when Ezra uses it to save Ahsoka from Vader. There, they treat the Force as a point connected to all time simultaneously as a sort of way to explain a lot of how it works, with Palpatine seeking to find a way to enter it. I'm not sure I love the idea, but it was executed and presented well and could certainly work if handled properly. It could also be a midichlorian level disaster.

**Galef**

For clarity, I'm not saying that Rey NEEDs to be connected by blood to any existing character, but that TFA PRESENTED her as such and TLJ should have kept that, but instead subverted it. SW has never been about subverting expectations, so the only way for RoS to bring it all together is to make Rey being a nobody a lie.
Otherwise TFA and TLJ just do not work with each other story-wise

-

**AndrewGPaul**

Captain Joystick wrote:
I hear that, but I don't really agree. Star Wars fans are weirdly obsessed with the characters' bloodlines and its something I blame the old EU's insistence that every force sensitive they ever introduced had to be the secret grandkid of some Jedi hero in order to lend them some sense of legitimacy, but it's something that George rejected softly with the 'Jedi forbid love' thing and Disney appeared to reject stiffly with the little orphan Jedi and Rey's apparent (so far) lack of pedigree.

So I for one, hope she remains a 'nobody' because an assertion that anybody can be a Jedi is a powerful one.

Star Wars - the first film, that is - went the same way. The secret to skill with the Force seems to be training, practice and willpower, not simply genetics as the two sequels went on to imply.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Rey’s family being irrelevant is less of derailment than Leia becoming Luke’s sister to tidy up a plot point.

**Compel**

I do hope they involve Rey's parents in some form in Rise of Skywalker. They don't need to be somebody important. But they're not, and noone is, nobodies. - Especially since all of Rey's parental figures are now very dead.

Even if they end up being nobodies in the Galactic scheme of things, having her, say, rescue her dad from Kessel, could still be something.

**flamingkillamajig**

Honestly i dunno what JJ Abrams can do with ep. 9 honestly.

I mean this is like JJ Abrams handling a nuclear power plant and telling rian johnson to watch it for 15 mins until he gets back only for a Chernobyl incident to happen while he's away. After JJ Abrams storms in all like "WTF DID YOU DO?" and Rian Johnson just sorta raises his shoulders signaling "I dunno."

Perhaps that example is a tad extreme it's just in such a situation how do you even fix it at this point without just re-doing episode 8. Much as i think fans went a little crazy with ep. 8 supposedly not being canon or wanting to fund raise a new ep. 8. i don't think the current trilogy can really be fixed unless TLJ gets retconned.

**Backfire**

Johnson consulted Abrams when he was writing TLJ, to make sure he was not undoing some grand plan JJA had in mind.

**LordofHats**

Backfire wrote:
Johnson consulted Abrams when he was writing TLJ, to make sure he was not undoing some grand plan JJA had in mind.

Did he? Or did he throw JJ's ideas and notes out the window and do things his way? It's literally been rumored to have gone both ways. Other versions say Kennedy interfered too much in the production, and yet others blame vague Disney marketing executives. Does it even really matter at this point?

I'm not sure we'll ever know exactly what went wrong with TLJ. All that really matters is that something did go wrong, and I earnestly think it damaged the brand in a way even the PT didn't manage to do.

**Backfire**

LordofHats wrote:
Backfire wrote:
Johnson consulted Abrams when he was writing TLJ, to make sure he was not undoing some grand plan JJA had in mind.

Did he? Or did he throw JJ's ideas and notes out the window and do things his way? It's literally been rumored to have gone both ways.

Official version is that, and really it's hard to see how or why they would do it any other way. JJA was Executive Producer in TLJ (although that title does not really guarantee anything).
Despite all the jokes, it's not like they don't have any oversight. Trevorrow was kicked out from Ep9 because they didn't like his draft.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Galef wrote:

If, however, Rey was presented as a nobody in TFA, I'd be ok with that. But instead, she was HEAVILY hinted at being important and connected. Why else would Kylo have freaked out about some rando "WHAT GIRL!?" in that movie? Or why did they have so many parallels between her and Luke/Anakin.
From a story telling pov, it's just....unsatisfying to set it up like that to subvert those expectations.....unless EpIX retcons it for a bigger payoff.

Given the tension and chemistry Rey and Kylo have between them, it would be really weird if they turned out to be close relatives. On the other hand, OT already did it with Luke and Leia so who am I to criticize it?

Since Jedi were not allowed to have families (which is kinda weird if having a right 'bloodline' helps becoming powerful Force user...why would they want to eliminate those bloodlines?), if Rey has some sort of relation to pre-existing major character, it can only be Palpatine. Perhaps Rey was some sort of clone or genetic spare or experiment who was dumped on Jakku and her parents weren't her actual parents.
I am not excited about that hypothesis, but it sounds something they might do.

**insaniak**

It would actually be kind of cool if we wind up with the son of Han and Leia being the evil overlord, and the daughter of Palpatine saving the day...

**Backfire**

Elemental wrote:

Ren's villain arc is one of the saving graces for me. He starts off being a pale imitation of Darth Vader, but that's entirely intentional. And then he arguably proves a better Sith than Vader, by supplanting his master. And the Emperor talked a lot about the power of anger and hate, but he's the only Sith character who really conveys that.

My big worry for Ep9 is that they'll cave in to the fangirls and redeem him with the power of love.

The title seems to hint to that possibilty, yes. If so, movie needs another major villain. Maybe they'll whip out Thrawn? That would pander the hardcore fanbase, at least.
Kylo Ren is not a Sith, of course, neither is Snoke. But since Kylo is basically a Darth Vader fanboi, it makes sense he would try to imitate Sith tradition.

**LordofHats**

I will say that Kylo Ren is probably the one part of TLJ I haven't hated more as time goes on. He was the one interesting character in TFA, and he stayed interesting in TLJ, more so than Rey or Finn (and I think they just botched Poe's arc entirely).

**Backfire**

Voss wrote:
BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I almost hope the RLM predictions of time travel are accurate. Instead of going out with a whimper, the Sequel franchise may as well douse itself in flaming gasoline, soil itself, and then jump head first through a chipper shredder while clucking like a chicken.

Its better than the probably-more-accurate rumors I saw on the Making Star Wars site a couple weeks back. They seemed entirely serious about it, to the point of warning people not to share them because 'spoilers.'

If they're true, though... Its going to be a wacky ride. Painful if you still care, but hilarious if fans flipping out in bouts of nerd rage can strike you as funny.
Though some will take it super serious, I'm sure.

Hey, it's Disney. I think they will resort to ultimate jump-the-shark-strategy, the crossover:

Spoiler:

**Earth127**

My compliments to whomever made that poster. It looks good.

**A Town Called Malus**

insaniak wrote:
It would actually be kind of cool if we wind up with the son of Han and Leia being the evil overlord, and the daughter of Palpatine saving the day...

It would. Show that evil and good are not genetic traits but rather the result of someone's choices

**AegisGrimm**

It may just be me being bitter, but we'll probably just end up with Rey and Kylo being siblings, as that would just be another way to ape the original trilogy.

**Backfire**

BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I almost hope the RLM predictions of time travel are accurate. Instead of going out with a whimper, the Sequel franchise may as well douse itself in flaming gasoline, soil itself, and then jump head first through a chipper shredder while clucking like a chicken.

I think it's more likely they will do a Force flashback of the past, similar but more extensive what Rey saw in TFA. In fact wasn't there a plan to reshoot small part of Luke's and Vader's Cloud City encounter for Rey to see in her flashback?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Earth127 wrote:
My compliments to whomever made that poster. It looks good.

Somebody only added lightsabers but as the characters have so tense poses, them holding swords actually looks quite natural.
That poster actually makes me think even more that they should have made Jakku something else than Tatooine ripoff. A misty forest or jungle world or something like that, would have felt fresher.

**SamusDrake**

Apart from ROTJ: SE and Force Awakens...I've always liked SW. I think the most miserable time for SW was the barrage of hate for Last Jedi being shoved down our throats on an almost daily basis.

Looking forward to the Mandalorian and the new season of Clone Wars, not expecting much from Rise of Skywalker than a repeat of Force Awakens.

Loved Rogue One and Solo, and disappointed theres no more word of an Obi-Wan movie. The Scott Miller novel pretty much nailed that story, but it would have been nice if they could have bought it to life, or at least use it as a starting point.

Not sure what else to say about SW for the moment, but I think they should ditch the trilogies and stick with the "story" movies instead.

**LunarSol**

flamingkillamajig wrote:
Honestly i dunno what JJ Abrams can do with ep. 9 honestly.

I mean this is like JJ Abrams handling a nuclear power plant and telling rian johnson to watch it for 15 mins until he gets back only for a Chernobyl incident to happen while he's away. After JJ Abrams storms in all like "WTF DID YOU DO?" and Rian Johnson just sorta raises his shoulders signaling "I dunno."

I'm not one to really believe JJ has ever written a mystery with any sort of working plan in mind. In my mind, the scenario is more that JJ built a nuclear power plant, RJ was tasked with blowing it up, but when he got inside just found a cardboard box with "Reactor" in Sharpie on it and had to improvise.

**Voss**

AegisGrimm wrote:
It may just be me being bitter, but we'll probably just end up with Rey and Kylo being siblings, as that would just be another way to ape the original trilogy.

Given she's interacted with both parents, that seems... unlikely.

But if the Time Travel hypothesis hold's true, they could end up as Anakin's parents, and he'll die, she'll adopt the name 'Shmi' and hide on Tatooine, in order to start the Skywalker's Rise.
For a 'slave' household, they had far too much expensive kit and freedom anyway...

"It's like poetry, it rhymes"

**Riquende**

Captain Joystick wrote:
I hear that, but I don't really agree. Star Wars fans are weirdly obsessed with the characters' bloodlines and its something I blame the old EU's insistence that every force sensitive they ever introduced had to be the secret grandkid of some Jedi hero in order to lend them some sense of legitimacy,

Did the EU really do this? I'm thinking back and don't really recall anyone outside of Corran Horn discovering his grandfather was a Jedi Knight (and I guess Kyle Katarn counts too). The core of Luke's academy students weren't scions of anyone (Kyp Durron was introduced as having insane levels of raw Force power, but there was no family link to anyone else). None of the Dark Jedi were related to anyone - Hethrir, C'Baoth, Brakiss etc. As the time went on you had sons/daughters of existing characters come into play - the Solo kids, the Hapan heir etc, but that's a bit different.

I do think family links were a little more prevalent in the old Tales of the Jedi series but again they were more direct than 'secret descendant'.

Maybe it changed a little when EU material surrounding the prequels came out, I didn't like the films enough to bother with EU stuff then.

**AegisGrimm**

I don't remember much past what you've said, either. And to me, anyway, Corran Horn was cooler than either Rey OR this version of Ben Skywalker.