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So they’re bigger than the old AI models?

Bastards, my interest level just dropped a whole heap if I can’t use these models to complete my old squadrons.

They really didn’t need to grow, bombers in the old scale were pretty big, now they’re going to be huge.

I don’t think it really would have mattered if they were technically smaller scale than AT, it’s pretty common to use smaller scale aircraft than ground troops in war games, given aircraft generally just represent tokens when playing ground based games (due to speed and altitude being very different), it’s not really necessary from a game perspective to have them in scale. Even a relatively slow moving fighter plane is probably going to cover most the gaming table in the time it takes a titan to make 1 step, so having a matching scale is mostly pedantry.

For example 15mm games often use 1/144 aircraft, even though 15mm is closer to 1/100.

Ah well, sad face, this has gone from instant buy to “maybe I’ll see if the rules don’t suck first”, of which I don’t have much hope given the game board is so small.

This kinda follows the shorter game format GW has been taking with ala AT, Necro, killteam, etc.

The board being small may factor into this, but I guess nothing is stopping you from using 2 game boards or something.

I really want this but if it isnt around by the time I have $ for it (after sisters it may be a while). I might just pick the models up for creating a cool dog fighting diorama.

Racerguy180 wrote:
This kinda follows the shorter game format GW has been taking with ala AT, Necro, killteam, etc.

The board being small may factor into this, but I guess nothing is stopping you from using 2 game boards or something.

I really want this but if it isnt around by the time I have $ for it (after sisters it may be a while). I might just pick the models up for creating a cool dog fighting diorama.

My concern about the board size comes down to how the rules are going to work. Old AI was about manoeuvring your planes in to position, it’s not really a game that can be scaled down to such a tiny hex board like this. How is manoeuvring for position going to work when the board is only about 15 hexes long? We’ll see though, obviously just speculation at this point.

Today I learned that “anti-truescale Marine fanatics” are a thing!

Anyway, we’re one step closer to the return of Epic...

Roll on whatever comes next too!

 Peregrine wrote:
You're getting criticism because you're willing to sacrifice model quality over a slight scale "error" based on zero-effort source material that is full of nonsense numbers. Sure, you have the right to elevate that one particular source over all others and let it dictate your purchasing choices, but don't expect anyone to think you're making a reasonable choice.

I don't require your permission or endorsement for my choices. I do wonder why it so vexes people that they feel the need to actively gak on it though, as explained below I'm thoroughly convinced just taking GW's wonko-scale as gospel isn't a reasonable choice but I always take great pains to ensure people know that's a personal opinion when the subject comes up, here or with other IPs. I consider consistent scaling to be part of model quality.

 Crimson wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:


If you're having to resort to "hurr it's all just toys and not real durr"...yeah.

This not what I mean. I take my toy soldier very seriously too. But it is still all made up, and there is no reason to think that one made up number is more correct than another. Nothing in the titan or plane models indicate that there would be anything wrong with their scaling in relation to the human miniatures, thus one might as well accept those sizes.

But we've established already that GW do not make scale models, that their models are not consistent with each other even when discussing a single fictional item like the Thunderbolt, where every representation of it has had different proportions and a different size relative to its ostensible scale. We've also established that GW aren't interested in keeping models consistent between each other in the context of a single scale, given the plethora of transports that can't transport what they claim to, or vehicles with doors that can't fit things through it's supposed to carry, or the complete mess of scaling that has been the Space Marine model line pretty much since its inception. Thus, to my mind, just accepting whatever size the GW model is what seems bizarre, and as to the validity of the numbers, I dug out that convo I had with Will Hayes on FB, this came in response to me asking if the numbers in the books were simply ass-pulls;



I'm comfortable using the numbers as a solid basis for scaling, once you establish a baseline to work from. For 40K, I work from the modern human miniatures - 32mm = scale human male, which puts the system at ~1:56. Everything else flows from that, and apart from a handful of models like the Rhino and the really huge stuff like the Titans, it works remarkably well when you take the numbers FW give in the IA books in terms of things being scaled well relative to each other. For AT we know the size of the Titans and the fictional "real" height of the Titans, on which basis they're ~1:260, which fits with the "8mm Marine" thing, so that's what I use as the baseline. From there on, I begin with the "real" numbers, and if they are consistent with the descriptions of what the "real" thing can do and hold - which the Thunderbolt would be in this case - I go with that, if there's a discrepancy I make adjustments based on the baseline and a point of reference, such as with Rhinos and Marines.

It's not perfect, but it's better in my opinion than other methods.

Consistency is indeed exactly the issue - you're happy with consistency in the same sense GW are, ie everything is made smaller than the 40K models by the same amount. Great. Wonderful. Enjoy. Have at it. Unlike yourself, I don't begrudge other people their preferred standard. I prefer consistency in the sense of everything being scaled "correctly" relative to the "actual" scale of the Titans, based on the numbers when given, or by a best estimate when there are no numbers or the numbers are inconsistent with other more fundamental background material.

But there isn't 'actual scale' of titans. Their states vary wildly in the fiction. We can literally see what size the princeps is compared to their titan. That is closest to the 'real size' as we're going to get. You have made up a standard in your head and do not even apply it consistenly. Sometimes the problem is that the model and stated numbers for it's size in FW publications are too small for what it 'sensibly' should be (Rhino,) sometimes there seems to be absolutely nothing wrong with the scaling of the models when comparing them to the infantry models (titans, aeroplanes) yet now them not matching the stated FW numbers that were quickly abandoned in the previous case is a problem. And of course expecting GW to conform to some arbitrary and bizarre standards that you have concocted is absurd.

See above. It's impossible to argue that my standards are arbitrary without also admitting that GW's standards are arbitrary, in which case which someone chooses to follow is up to them. My standards are *consistent*, and that's what I like. And where is this idea that I "expect GW to conform" to my standards coming from? I don't expect GW to do anything, I don't demand they do anything. I simply base my purchasing decisions on my own standards, which is no more "expecting" or "demanding" than when I decide not to buy GW 40K Rhinos because, by my thinking, they're too small, or FFG's TIE Fighters and X-34 speeders because they're too big.

Crimson et al that are seemingly taking personal offense that others might view things differently.

I am not offended, merely confused.

Then I hope I've cleared things up for you.

 Alpharius wrote:
Today I learned that “anti-truescale Marine fanatics” are a thing!

They were kind of hard to miss. For a goodly while pretty much every time the topic came up for discussion, you'd get a procession of sneering "nyeeeh, that's dumb, the models are right 'cos GW made them and what GW do is what's official and so correct!" and "nyeeeeh, you're dumb, it's not Space Marines that are too small, it's literally everything else that's too big! Stop being dumb and wrong and bad and just buy all the nonexistent actually-28mm-tall models for the other factions!" and "OMG it's just toys and games and stuff NEEEEERRRRRRD who cares lul" posts.

Sorry, you're indeed being arbitrary. You pick and choose whichever background numbers you happen to like. You just have made up some nonsense in your head and it is confusing to people for you coming here talking about 'the models being scaled wrong' when you actually mean they do not conform to Yodhrin head scale. And if if 40K is 1:56 then AT/AI certainly isn't 1:260, it is 1:224!

Okay people, enough of that already. If you must discuss it, do so elsewhere.

Thank you Brook.

So in a few hours we will see what all is going up for preorder next weekend. Are we going to see an article about the game too tomorrow? It seems strange to only get info about the game the two weeks leading up until the release, especially as a "new" GW game. Also it will be sharing community article space with the poster boys releases for 40k, so I'm not sure how much we will get.

I wonder if they sent review copies to GMG, MWG, and the other various online reviewers. If so we might see some review videos tomorrow or Monday.

GW only tends to release preview articles early when there's been a massive leak, see Kill Team - Rogue Trader as an example, or when they need to hype up something Space Marine related.

So far on AI, no big leak has happened as of yet, so they've been patiently biding their time and we'll have several articles throughout the week for sure. Expect at least one looking at the models and another at the rules.

As awesome as the return of AI is in my opinion, the different scale is kind of a down for me.

It works just fine for Orks and maybe even Eldar, but the Imperium and Chaos models are so iconic and now not really playable next to each other. I mean: a Thunderbolt is a Thunderbolt is a Thunderbolt, and the already small FW Hellblades will look laughably tiny now.

The "board" is also... meh. Would it make the box that much more expensive to have it on cardboard rather than on a poster?

Still, I am happy for the games return. The scale thing and the "board" take it from "awesome, this is perfect" down to "eh, I'll get it anyway" though.

Noticed our local gaming store is interested in stocking the game...

https://www.facebook.com/alphagamesuk/photos/pb.355435498163702.-2207520000.1566727358./899354097105170/?type=3&theater

...is this the case for others here? And more importantly, will they be hosting game sessions for Aeronautica?




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Darnok wrote:
As awesome as the return of AI is in my opinion, the different scale is kind of a down for me.

It works just fine for Orks and maybe even Eldar, but the Imperium and Chaos models are so iconic and now not really playable next to each other. I mean: a Thunderbolt is a Thunderbolt is a Thunderbolt, and the already small FW Hellblades will look laughably tiny now.

The "board" is also... meh. Would it make the box that much more expensive to have it on cardboard rather than on a poster?

Still, I am happy for the games return. The scale thing and the "board" take it from "awesome, this is perfect" down to "eh, I'll get it anyway" though.

The board is a poster? Didn't realise that...

The value still holds up but like yourself I had the starter set in higher regard. I take it it's a double-sided poster?

On the board and it being hex based, thats likely just for launch id imagine, Necromunda box set had more limited movement options (tiles and no verticality) with more normal movement options later

its likely alot of scales will be slightly different should this expand into epic, for example do rhinos scale with the 40k model (which is hilariously out of scale with new chaos marines being taller than the hull section, those with horns cant even walk into it) or more true scale rhinos.

I would actually love a "bombing run" mission on a titan formation, strip shields with the fighters and guide the bomber into the target. I also hope we see other factions soon after release, getting chaos-necron-eldar-tau quickly would be nice

this is not an excuse to rethrash the scale argument again.

Probably a dumb question, but are the Ork planes in red plastic?

 CptJake wrote:
Probably a dumb question, but are the Ork planes in red plastic?

It looks like it. Imperial planes on a grey plastic sprue, as the former pictures seem to show.

 reds8n wrote:




this is not an excuse to rethrash the scale argument again.

Oops from that video showing the aircraft catalog I can be certain that there wont be Marauder destroyer optional build , remember back then the Imperium had to change to Destroyer to fight against Ork.

Also look like only missile and bomb can actually run out of ammo this time.

 CptJake wrote:
Probably a dumb question, but are the Ork planes in red plastic?

I don't believe so.

The red ones in the pics/video I've posted are "Red is Mephiston Primer, agrax to panel line, drybrush mephiston, drybrush evil sunz."

. so think it's the usual plastic.

I'm hoping that we may see 28mm versions of some of these models.

Preview of the pre-orders is up!

Article: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/08/25/coming-soon-a-new-age-of-aerial-combat/

In the 41st Millennium, there is only war. In space? War. On the land? WAR. Underground? SO MUCH WAR. The skies? You better believe there is a heck of a lot of war going on up there. Now, we’re giving you the chance to experience aerial warfare in the far future with Aeronautica Imperialis – a totally new game system designed to bring the thrills of combat in the sky to your tabletop.

A better way indeed! You’ll be able to pre-order Aeronautica Imperialis next weekend, with loads of kits, accessories and books to launch into. Neat, eh?



In the set, you’ll find:

2x Thunderbolt Fighters (these can also be built as Thunderbolt Furies)
2x Marauder Bomber
3x Dakkajets
2x Fighter Bommers
1x Rulebook
1x Double-sided Area of Engagement battlemat
Lots of handy gubbins like dice, transfer sheets, tokens, quick reference guides and more.
We’ll be delving further into the Wings of Vengeance set with an unboxing tomorrow, so stay tuned.

Aeronautica Imperialis is more than a (very, very good) boxed game, it’s a fully-fledged new system with its own range of models. In addition to Wings of Vengeance, you’ll also be able to pick up all the kits in their own separate boxes. Let’s take a closer look at those…

Aircraft
Our miniatures team have worked tirelessly to transform some of the 41st Millennium’s most famous aircraft into all-new plastic models made especially for the game. Take the new Thunderbolt Fighter kit…



This multipart plastic kit allows you to build four Thunderbolt Fighters packed with incredible detail and options to customise your aircraft with all manner of weapons. This includes a variant of the Thunderbolt never-before-seen on the tabletop – the avenger bolt cannon-armed Thunderbolt Fury. Looking for something heavier? You’ll be able to reinforce your air wing with a box of two Marauder Destroyers (nigh-indomitable flying fortresses) and another box of Marauder Bombers (for when you need to turn your chosen ground target into a smoking crater).

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
I'm hoping that we may see 28mm versions of some of these models.

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-GB/Warhammer-40-000?N=913715131+4053564632&Nr=AND(sku.siteId%3AGB_fw%2Cproduct.locale%3Aen_GB_fw)&Nrs=collection()%2Frecord[product.startDate+<%3D+1566756180000+and+product.endDate+>%3D+1566756180000]&view=all

They are already out!
FW has most of the Imperial ones, whilst at least the ork fighters and some bombers are on sale from GW directly as a plastic kit.

It's going to be an expensive weekend for me, they're going all out!

So marauder destroyer is a separate kit? That's great news but seem...redundant? Should've been 2-in 1 kit.


Now the price......

Does the word "gubbins" have any use outside of wargaming tokens? Because I see it all the time in miniature games (Wild West Exodus even has a "rules & gubbins" set), but I've never seen the word used anywhere else, ever.

If I walked up to some random person and said, "grognards loves their gubbins", I'm pretty sure they'd consider it sexual harassment.

It's not uncommon in the UK, it tends to be used to refer to a collection of (small) bits and pieces

(often stuff that the speaker doesn't really understand, such as 'when I took the back off the TV there was a bunch of electical gubbins in there')

 BrookM wrote:
It's going to be an expensive weekend for me, they're going all out!

Yes, sounds like a pretty heavy first release weekend for this new game. Even a single copy of everything is going to end up quite expensive.

CorwinB wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
It's going to be an expensive weekend for me, they're going all out!

Yes, sounds like a pretty heavy first release weekend for this new game. Even a single copy of everything is going to end up quite expensive.

Not getting everything!

Though a quick check shows just about everything but the three bomber kits..

Rynn's World is a nice kick-off for the campaign, not to mention a nice nod to the old material. Probably will have to do a red Thunderbolt and black Dakkajet then to represent the two top aces.

With it being on Rynn’s World, I suspect the next things to come are Marines. I wonder if they’ll stick to Xiphons Storm Eagles and Thunderhawks or if we’ll see the plastic planes too?

Who knows? So far I am seeing a lot of FW's original art being re-used, with some of the newer stuff thrown in. I'm quietly hoping that Astartes are left out for the time being and it can focus on other factions first.

Where's my Lightning though?

Probably just me but the starter seems weak value game given the abridged rules, paper mat etc I'll be giving this one a pass unless those single items are way cheaper than I'm guessing.

Whoo, this turns up to be a much bigger release than I expected! Everything looks quite glorious - I need me a couple (or four) of those nice Ork dice sets!

Sounds almost like the Wings of Vengeance set is a bit like Necromunda: Underhive though, with the smaller board and all. Let's hope it at least contains the full rules.