Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

We have comfirmation that BA, DA and SW are not getting suppliments at this stage.

GW fb reply:
"Hey Michael,
They keep their codexes, and will get access to the new units and new special rules introduced in this book."

" ** Yes, that includes Blood Angels, Space Wolves and Dark Angels! Have you ever wanted to carry Bjorn the Fell-Handed or Murderfang to battle using a Stormraven Gunship? Well, now you can!"

So that clears some of the confusion. My guess is that the current BA, DA, and SW Codices will function as supplements for the time being while the other first founding chapters will be in the 6 announced supplements.

In the future I would expect those three chapters to use this supplement system."

But we will be getting a PDF faq to update our codexes and hopefully an update to the digital copy.

But I am interested in making a custom Wolfspear successor from the new codex.

I'm also happy that instead of making marines cheaper they are making them better to retain the small number of elite warriors instead of making them horde.

 lonewolf81 wrote:
do sw,ba,da get access to the strats,powers of the main codex???

For the time being, I don't think there are any clear informations on that. I believe that DA, BA and SW, like DeathWatch and Grey Knight still don't get anything from this space marine release and will have to wait a little.

 ulfhednir86 wrote:

I'm also happy that instead of making marines cheaper they are making them better to retain the small number of elite warriors instead of making them horde.
[/size]

Yep. That certainly is an excellent thing. I'm really interested in knowing what those combat doctrines do. There was rumour earlier which said: "Marines will gain a rule included in the new Angel of Death rule, SM will gain +1A during the first fight phase or something like that. But that's not all, we have something like the Deathwatch Doctrine! At the start of each turn/round, we can choose one, and one of them is awesome, a bonus of -1 to AP in the shooting or fighting phase." As the extra attack part was correct, perhaps the rest of it is too?

WhiteDog wrote:

 lonewolf81 wrote:
do sw,ba,da get access to the strats,powers of the main codex???

For the time being, I don't think there are any clear informations on that. I believe that DA, BA and SW, like DeathWatch and Grey Knight still don't get anything from this space marine release and will have to wait a little.

It was confirmed that frist founding chapters get access to all the datasheets from the new codex and will be FAQed in. We will be getting shock assault but no word on stratagems or powers yet.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Crimson wrote:

 ulfhednir86 wrote:

I'm also happy that instead of making marines cheaper they are making them better to retain the small number of elite warriors instead of making them horde.
[/size]

Yep. That certainly is an excellent thing. I'm really interested in knowing what those combat doctrines do. There was rumour earlier which said: "Marines will gain a rule included in the new Angel of Death rule, SM will gain +1A during the first fight phase or something like that. But that's not all, we have something like the Deathwatch Doctrine! At the start of each turn/round, we can choose one, and one of them is awesome, a bonus of -1 to AP in the shooting or fighting phase." As the extra attack part was correct, perhaps the rest of it is too?

I hope so, doubtful but hopeful. I hope our chaplains and wolf priests get litanies

 ulfhednir86 wrote:

WhiteDog wrote:

 lonewolf81 wrote:
do sw,ba,da get access to the strats,powers of the main codex???

For the time being, I don't think there are any clear informations on that. I believe that DA, BA and SW, like DeathWatch and Grey Knight still don't get anything from this space marine release and will have to wait a little.

It was confirmed that frist founding chapters get access to all the datasheets from the new codex and will be FAQed in. We will be getting shock assault but no word on stratagems or powers yet.

Does it means that, as a DA player, I can play centurions and Stormtalon ?

Have new chaplain litanies been confirmed then? if so crap it might make chaplains worth running!

 Brother Castor wrote:

Brother Castor wrote:So will this replace all existing SM codexes or will it be like CSM codex 2.0?

Anyone?

Yea, this is something I want to know too.

CSM 2.0 was good, I got it free because I bought digital, although the GW flow chart failed to cover this properly.

Hopefully the main Codex book will be the same, SM 2.0, and then the additional chapter specific "books" will be low cost extra. Of course, by GW standards they're likely to be £20 a pop with a £30 Codex.

BrianDavion wrote:
Have new chaplain litanies been confirmed then? if so crap it might make chaplains worth running!

Well, there are references to "Litanies of Faith that can be bellowed forth by the Chaplains", while one of the card decks with the LE book is described as "Set 2 – 48 cards (38 Stratagems, 3 Combat Doctrines, 7 Litanies of Battle)", so I guess so.

 Dysartes wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
Have new chaplain litanies been confirmed then? if so crap it might make chaplains worth running!

Well, there are references to "Litanies of Faith that can be bellowed forth by the Chaplains", while one of the card decks with the LE book is described as "Set 2 – 48 cards (38 Stratagems, 3 Combat Doctrines, 7 Litanies of Battle)", so I guess so.

awesome! I've always loved the look of chaplains but they're very much a ".. yeah a Lt is better in every way" unit

How long do we think this new book will be good for?

Two years out of the last one seems a bit light to me. I was honestly just expecting a addendum Primaris codex from this release, not a whole new issue plus splat books. Is it going to last into 9th?

At least I bought mine at release, I imagine anyone who has bought it the last couple months is a mite annoyed.

 argonak wrote:
How long do we think this new book will be good for?

Two years out of the last one seems a bit light to me. I was honestly just expecting a addendum Primaris codex from this release, not a whole new issue plus splat books. Is it going to last into 9th?

I think the idea is that this is the last edition in their eyes, just revisions and consolidating the changes every few years. History tells us it probs won't work that way but I think that was the intent at least.

I really hope SW, DA and BA will not wait a year or two to get their codex updated too with strategems, doctrines and pray... ehm, I mean Litanies.
New unit entry is nice, but in this edition strategems and special rules makes an army good.

 Crazyterran wrote:
Grey Hunters are just Tactical Marines with Knives and trading a heavy for a special. Give tactical marines the options to take knives and the option of heavy/special or special/special.

I imagine the 'traits' for successor chapters will be pick two, and will be things like:

"Heroes among heroes: +1 LD" combined with things like "Combat Tactics: This unit may still shoot in the shooting phase if it retreats this turn" etc.

It'll be interesting to see if they blast Raven Guard into the ground or not.

Nah I think they will still let the Snowflake Chapters pretend all their units are sooooo unique.....

Are the other SW/DA/BA players really saying - "we want all of our own super special toys that only we can use plus everything every other Marine gets" cos thats not stupid is it?

Having both old DA/SW armies - little of the new wolfy wolf wolfier crap - I am happy that other Chapters, ESPECIAlLLY the neglected First Foundings like Salmanders White Scars and Iron Hands are finally getting some interest but a bit worried about them getting flanderised

of the new units: not sure about the stripped down Dreadnought...Rhino suffers from the new "must glue on more guns" Tigerius and Khan are not bad.

Snipers are good (although Anvil Industries ones are as good)
Reiver guy is cool
the marine squad I also like

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:
Grey Hunters are just Tactical Marines with Knives and trading a heavy for a special. Give tactical marines the options to take knives and the option of heavy/special or special/special.

I imagine the 'traits' for successor chapters will be pick two, and will be things like:

"Heroes among heroes: +1 LD" combined with things like "Combat Tactics: This unit may still shoot in the shooting phase if it retreats this turn" etc.

It'll be interesting to see if they blast Raven Guard into the ground or not.

Nah I think they will still let the Snowflake Chapters pretend all their units are sooooo unique.....

Are the other SW/DA/BA players really saying - "we want all of our own super special toys that only we can use plus everything every other Marine gets" cos thats not stupid is it?

Having both old DA/SW armies - little of the new wolfy wolf wolfier crap - I am happy that other Chapters, ESPECIAlLLY the neglected First Foundings like Salmanders White Scars and Iron Hands are finally getting some interest but a bit worried about them getting flanderised

of the new units: not sure about the stripped down Dreadnought...Rhino suffers from the new "must glue on more guns" Tigerius and Khan are not bad.

I'm pretty happy with the first founding having more choice, but as an old DA player, I will be a little disappointed if that leads to a stream lining of the entire space marine range with the disappearance of what constituted the specificity of the chapter I was playing. And I don't see how that is stupid or snowflake.

To be honest I have no prolem with GW making gray hunters just a tactical marines, long fangs just a devastators, wolf guards - sternguards and vanguards.

Maybe they could add some flavor there - like "SW tacticals could take ccw", but only to not obsolete current minis. I mean they still sell this SW GH boxes with chainsword for everyone.
Maybe they should let all tactical marines take combat knives, a little buff for underdog unit.

IMHO the thing about "all unnits in this book are usable by the other first founding chapters" I think is more GW saying "yeah the vanguard stuff is avaliable to space wolves, dark angels etc" expect a ".. no we didn't mean THAT" clarification to be issued if people start trying to take Gulliman in space wolf colours

BrianDavion wrote:
IMHO the thing about "all unnits in this book are usable by the other first founding chapters" I think is more GW saying "yeah the vanguard stuff is avaliable to space wolves, dark angels etc" expect a ".. no we didn't mean THAT" clarification to be issued if people start trying to take Gulliman in space wolf colours

Oh, that would be neat. And fluffy too. I mean, he is the Lord Commandor and Son of God, he should hang out the best of the best.

WhiteDog wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:
Grey Hunters are just Tactical Marines with Knives and trading a heavy for a special. Give tactical marines the options to take knives and the option of heavy/special or special/special.

I imagine the 'traits' for successor chapters will be pick two, and will be things like:

"Heroes among heroes: +1 LD" combined with things like "Combat Tactics: This unit may still shoot in the shooting phase if it retreats this turn" etc.

It'll be interesting to see if they blast Raven Guard into the ground or not.

Nah I think they will still let the Snowflake Chapters pretend all their units are sooooo unique.....

Are the other SW/DA/BA players really saying - "we want all of our own super special toys that only we can use plus everything every other Marine gets" cos thats not stupid is it?

Having both old DA/SW armies - little of the new wolfy wolf wolfier crap - I am happy that other Chapters, ESPECIAlLLY the neglected First Foundings like Salmanders White Scars and Iron Hands are finally getting some interest but a bit worried about them getting flanderised

of the new units: not sure about the stripped down Dreadnought...Rhino suffers from the new "must glue on more guns" Tigerius and Khan are not bad.

I'm pretty happy with the first founding having more choice, but as an old DA player, I will be a little disappointed if that leads to a stream lining of the entire space marine range with the disappearance of what constituted the specificity of the chapter I was playing. And I don't see how that is stupid or snowflake.

Good job I didn;t say that then isn't it.

What I said was stupid was some people saying "WAHHHH we should have all the basic Marine toys AND our own that no one else can have because...........we are special"

Unless they get rid of bikes and Terminators as an Old DA player then what else do you see as a DA specaility. And even then its only recently that the models became "special" - paint colour and some heraldry was enought was it not?

Before GW restorted to sticking the word Blood, Wolf or Dark in front of everything.

To be honest I have no prolem with GW making gray hunters just a tactical marines, long fangs just a devastators, wolf guards - sternguards and vanguards.

Maybe they could add some flavor there - like "SW tacticals could take ccw", but only to not obsolete current minis. I mean they still sell this SW GH boxes with chainsword for everyone.
Maybe they should let all tactical marines take combat knives, a little buff for underdog uni

Giving Tacticals the chainsword/CCW option only allows many more Chapters to actually reflect their own lore and just removes a pretend special element of the Wolves but not any game play options.

BrianDavion wrote:
IMHO the thing about "all unnits in this book are usable by the other first founding chapters" I think is more GW saying "yeah the vanguard stuff is avaliable to space wolves, dark angels etc" expect a ".. no we didn't mean THAT" clarification to be issued if people start trying to take Gulliman in space wolf colours

I'm pretty sure the big G will be in the Ultramarines supplement, not the main book

BrianDavion wrote:
IMHO the thing about "all unnits in this book are usable by the other first founding chapters" I think is more GW saying "yeah the vanguard stuff is avaliable to space wolves, dark angels etc" expect a ".. no we didn't mean THAT" clarification to be issued if people start trying to take Gulliman in space wolf colours

That's a non-problem, since he has Ultramarine keyword and not <chapter>.

You can soup him, same as now, but a Wolfy Roboute isn't possible either way.

 Mr Morden wrote:
Unless they get rid of bikes and Terminators as an Old DA player then what else do you see as a DA specaility. And even then its only recently that the models became "special" - paint colour and some heraldry was enought was it not?

Before GW restorted to sticking the word Blood, Wolf or Dark in front of everything.

Can't speak to the Deathwing off the top of my head, but the Ravenwing have had distinctive options/loadouts/rules since 2nd edition - so hardly "recently".

 argonak wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/08/04/pre-order-preview-the-adeptus-astartes/

In addition to the freedom for the First Founding Chapters and their successors to make use of all 76 datasheets included in the codex

So Space Wolves can use Tactical Marines now?

The current codex has 85 datasheets in it. If this one is adding the new stuff, Executioner, Rhinopulsor, Infiltrators, all that. . .then we're probably looking at at least 20 fewer data sheets than are in the current book.

So I wonder what they cut?

Characters and Chapter specific items most likely.
Ultramarines
-Guilliman
-Calgar
-Victrix Guard
-Chronus
-Tigurius
-Telion
-Cassius
-Sicarius

Black Templars
-Grimaldus
-Helbrecht
-Emperor's Champion
-Crusader Squad
-Cenobyte Servitors

White Scars
-Kor'sarro Khan

Raven Guard
-Kayvaan Shrike

Salamanders
-Vulkan He'stan

Imperial Fists
-Captain Lysander

Crimson Fists
-Pedro Kantor

That's 18 items right there.

The Vanguard side of things brought 3 units(Infiltrators, Suppressors, and Eliminators) and 3 character 'variants'(Lt, Captain, Librarian in Phobos). Given that we've seen another Lieutenant in Phobos Armor that we know will be coming out I don't think it unreasonable to believe that Primaris Captains, Librarians, and Lieutenants will be getting options baked into their profiles rather than individual datasheets.

Here’s the thing with the whole DA, BA, SW argument..

As someone said, remove all the SM rules stuff from their codexes, and they are down to 100 ish pages, so should fit in a supplement. Yeah I agree, they Would fit.

But take DA, 20 odd units unique to them in there, I believe someone said spanning 17 pages for the unit entries..

So their supplement would get 20% of it as rules/unit entries etc.
But then White Scars, they are going to get what 3/4 pages of rules - they just don’t have the units/characters to fill it up.
So either they get loads more fluff or something, either way it doesn’t balance out.

I would imagine each supplement will be of a similar set up, units and characters, fluff, rules, etc etc in the same quantities..


It just doesn’t make sense as a move really.

And the other thing, assuming you want to play competitively/have a full army list/whatever. They make more money:
You play SM, you buy the Codex.
You play UM/WS or one of them, you buy Codex AND a supplement.
You play DA, BA, SW, you buy your Codex, and the SM Codex

 Dysartes wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
Unless they get rid of bikes and Terminators as an Old DA player then what else do you see as a DA specaility. And even then its only recently that the models became "special" - paint colour and some heraldry was enought was it not?

Before GW restorted to sticking the word Blood, Wolf or Dark in front of everything.

Can't speak to the Deathwing off the top of my head, but the Ravenwing have had distinctive options/loadouts/rules since 2nd edition - so hardly "recently".

As I said the MODELS were pretty much ALL standard Marines - Looking at old codexs right now. Again AS I Said - there were a few bits of heraldy here and there.

They had a couple of rules - so a line or two - thats it. So Ravenguard were standard Bikes and Speeders a bit harder to hit and Deathwing were immune to Psycology. Not hard to put as a unit option for those unit entries?

 Mr Morden wrote:

WhiteDog wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:
Grey Hunters are just Tactical Marines with Knives and trading a heavy for a special. Give tactical marines the options to take knives and the option of heavy/special or special/special.

I imagine the 'traits' for successor chapters will be pick two, and will be things like:

"Heroes among heroes: +1 LD" combined with things like "Combat Tactics: This unit may still shoot in the shooting phase if it retreats this turn" etc.

It'll be interesting to see if they blast Raven Guard into the ground or not.

Nah I think they will still let the Snowflake Chapters pretend all their units are sooooo unique.....

Are the other SW/DA/BA players really saying - "we want all of our own super special toys that only we can use plus everything every other Marine gets" cos thats not stupid is it?

Having both old DA/SW armies - little of the new wolfy wolf wolfier crap - I am happy that other Chapters, ESPECIAlLLY the neglected First Foundings like Salmanders White Scars and Iron Hands are finally getting some interest but a bit worried about them getting flanderised

of the new units: not sure about the stripped down Dreadnought...Rhino suffers from the new "must glue on more guns" Tigerius and Khan are not bad.

I'm pretty happy with the first founding having more choice, but as an old DA player, I will be a little disappointed if that leads to a stream lining of the entire space marine range with the disappearance of what constituted the specificity of the chapter I was playing. And I don't see how that is stupid or snowflake.

Good job I didn;t say that then isn't it.

What I said was stupid was some people saying "WAHHHH we should have all the basic Marine toys AND our own that no one else can have because...........we are special"

Unless they get rid of bikes and Terminators as an Old DA player then what else do you see as a DA specaility. And even then its only recently that the models became "special" - paint colour and some heraldry was enought was it not?

Before GW restorted to sticking the word Blood, Wolf or Dark in front of everything.

To be honest I have no prolem with GW making gray hunters just a tactical marines, long fangs just a devastators, wolf guards - sternguards and vanguards.

Maybe they could add some flavor there - like "SW tacticals could take ccw", but only to not obsolete current minis. I mean they still sell this SW GH boxes with chainsword for everyone.
Maybe they should let all tactical marines take combat knives, a little buff for underdog uni

Giving Tacticals the chainsword/CCW option only allows many more Chapters to actually reflect their own lore and just removes a pretend special element of the Wolves but not any game play options.

So you're saying it's okay if GW streamline the SM line and thus gives the ravenwing black knight, the darkshroud and the dark talon to everyone, or just make those units disappear ? ... duh ...

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
Unless they get rid of bikes and Terminators as an Old DA player then what else do you see as a DA specaility. And even then its only recently that the models became "special" - paint colour and some heraldry was enought was it not?

Before GW restorted to sticking the word Blood, Wolf or Dark in front of everything.

Can't speak to the Deathwing off the top of my head, but the Ravenwing have had distinctive options/loadouts/rules since 2nd edition - so hardly "recently".

As I said the MODELS were pretty much ALL standard Marines - Looking at old codexs right now. Again AS I Said - there were a few bits of heraldy here and there.

They had a couple of rules - so a line or two - thats it. So Ravenguard were standard Bikes and Speeders a bit harder to hit and Deathwing were immune to Psycology. Not hard to put as a unit option for those unit entries?

Back then, like in the third edition (when DA had a codex supplement, like BA) the SM codex was thin as hell (I have it next to me it had 48 pages ! and only 8 pages of unit datasheets), because overall most armies had less possibilities. So I don't get your argument.

PS : the predator baal and the furioso already existed in the 3rd ed., so yeah differences in units is old.

Danny76 wrote:
Here’s the thing with the whole DA, BA, SW argument..

As someone said, remove all the SM rules stuff from their codexes, and they are down to 100 ish pages, so should fit in a supplement. Yeah I agree, they Would fit.

But take DA, 20 odd units unique to them in there, I believe someone said spanning 17 pages for the unit entries..

And how many of them could or would not be represented by a similar unit in another Chapter....

So one thing no one seems to be discussing is the sucessor tactics. I admit to some excitement over this as it'll likely really add some character to "your dudes" I think we saw how this'll work (sort of) in the blood ravens supplement. as they mention two abilities, and the BRs neatly divided into two distinct abilities. looking forward to seeing howe this'll work, and getting my storm crows ultima founding chapter painted up

WhiteDog wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

WhiteDog wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:
Grey Hunters are just Tactical Marines with Knives and trading a heavy for a special. Give tactical marines the options to take knives and the option of heavy/special or special/special.

I imagine the 'traits' for successor chapters will be pick two, and will be things like:

"Heroes among heroes: +1 LD" combined with things like "Combat Tactics: This unit may still shoot in the shooting phase if it retreats this turn" etc.

It'll be interesting to see if they blast Raven Guard into the ground or not.

Nah I think they will still let the Snowflake Chapters pretend all their units are sooooo unique.....

Are the other SW/DA/BA players really saying - "we want all of our own super special toys that only we can use plus everything every other Marine gets" cos thats not stupid is it?

Having both old DA/SW armies - little of the new wolfy wolf wolfier crap - I am happy that other Chapters, ESPECIAlLLY the neglected First Foundings like Salmanders White Scars and Iron Hands are finally getting some interest but a bit worried about them getting flanderised

of the new units: not sure about the stripped down Dreadnought...Rhino suffers from the new "must glue on more guns" Tigerius and Khan are not bad.

I'm pretty happy with the first founding having more choice, but as an old DA player, I will be a little disappointed if that leads to a stream lining of the entire space marine range with the disappearance of what constituted the specificity of the chapter I was playing. And I don't see how that is stupid or snowflake.

Good job I didn;t say that then isn't it.

What I said was stupid was some people saying "WAHHHH we should have all the basic Marine toys AND our own that no one else can have because...........we are special"

Unless they get rid of bikes and Terminators as an Old DA player then what else do you see as a DA specaility. And even then its only recently that the models became "special" - paint colour and some heraldry was enought was it not?

Before GW restorted to sticking the word Blood, Wolf or Dark in front of everything.

To be honest I have no prolem with GW making gray hunters just a tactical marines, long fangs just a devastators, wolf guards - sternguards and vanguards.

Maybe they could add some flavor there - like "SW tacticals could take ccw", but only to not obsolete current minis. I mean they still sell this SW GH boxes with chainsword for everyone.
Maybe they should let all tactical marines take combat knives, a little buff for underdog uni

Giving Tacticals the chainsword/CCW option only allows many more Chapters to actually reflect their own lore and just removes a pretend special element of the Wolves but not any game play options.

So you're saying it's okay if GW streamline the SM line and thus gives the ravenwing black knight, the darkshroud and the dark talon to everyone, or just make them disappear ? ... duh ...

#

Its ok by me as I think they look like crap, same with Thunder Wolves, Wolfen and a load of other stuff - but I see you want to immediately scream and go to extremes

Do you really think that the lore and game will break if the generic tactical Squad includes the Grey Hunter options - REALLY

However again - many of these units would be represented by a similar unit in another Chapter - so Black Dragons have similar mutation problems to Wolves

@Kanluwen - And some of those characters will feature multiple datasheets, too. Calgar is on, what, three different ones in 8th now? And anyone who is getting attacked with a bicycle pump while already having a profile is going to need two entries.

BrianDavion wrote:
So one thing no one seems to be discussing is the sucessor tactics. I admit to some excitement over this as it'll likely really add some character to "your dudes" I think we saw how this'll work (sort of) in the blood ravens supplement. as they mention two abilities, and the BRs neatly divided into two distinct abilities. looking forward to seeing howe this'll work, and getting my storm crows ultima founding chapter painted up

Eh. Not much to discuss until we know what they are.

I like the idea in theory for more support for DYI chapters rather than the weird overspecialization without actually being specialized and dogmatic silliness that plagues the big chapters. Almost all of them are complete wackadoodles rather than professional soldiers, and personally I find that untenable.
But realistically, this sort of 'pick from a list' thing doesn't go well. Some are nigh game-breakingly good, and others are damp squibs.