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 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

 Stus67 wrote:
If you think they went overboard with this book then imagine how the next ones for other factions are going to be. If you think crazy rules and supplements are gonna stop here than you're too naive, and tbh I'm kinda looking forward to it.

We better get just as good rules for DIY CSM warbands...

Purge trait sans mark restriction.
Ohhh boy, i don't think we want that.

I really don't think we want that.

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

 Stus67 wrote:
If you think they went overboard with this book then imagine how the next ones for other factions are going to be. If you think crazy rules and supplements are gonna stop here than you're too naive, and tbh I'm kinda looking forward to it.

We better get just as good rules for DIY CSM warbands...

TBH renegades should've been handled in the base Vanilla codex in the first place with a consolidated Angels (as they can have successors go rogue) and then the Chaos Codex can focus on Legions instead of trying to be a catch all. Renegades as is don't make any sense.

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

 Stus67 wrote:
If you think they went overboard with this book then imagine how the next ones for other factions are going to be. If you think crazy rules and supplements are gonna stop here than you're too naive, and tbh I'm kinda looking forward to it.

We better get just as good rules for DIY CSM warbands...

Legion Tactics that are more than just -1 to Leadership and Reroll Morale.

I want legion special units instead. I WANT MY ALPHA LEGION AGENT!
Or a squad of WB dark crusaders.
etc.

Or rules that benefit from bigger squads since, well y know , chaos legions still fight in bigger squads?



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

 Stus67 wrote:
If you think they went overboard with this book then imagine how the next ones for other factions are going to be. If you think crazy rules and supplements are gonna stop here than you're too naive, and tbh I'm kinda looking forward to it.

We better get just as good rules for DIY CSM warbands...

TBH renegades should've been handled in the base Vanilla codex in the first place with a consolidated Angels (as they can have successors go rogue) and then the Chaos Codex can focus on Legions instead of trying to be a catch all. Renegades as is don't make any sense.

Meh, debatable but yeah could've worked, OR they could've sold us a supplement..... wait they did that allready hidden in vigilus

Not Online!!! wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

 Stus67 wrote:
If you think they went overboard with this book then imagine how the next ones for other factions are going to be. If you think crazy rules and supplements are gonna stop here than you're too naive, and tbh I'm kinda looking forward to it.

We better get just as good rules for DIY CSM warbands...

Legion Tactics that are more than just -1 to Leadership and Reroll Morale.

I want legion special units instead. I WANT MY ALPHA LEGION AGENT!
Or a squad of WB dark crusaders.
etc.

Or rules that benefit from bigger squads since, well y know , chaos legions still fight in bigger squads?

All of the above?

 Drudge Dreadnought wrote:


I am a bit miffed by the Assault Vehicle rule. This is just restoring things to how all vehicles worked in previous editions. All space marines need this back, especially rhinoes. And Land Raiders need their assault ramps back.

How do we know rhinos or land raiders won't get this assault vehicle rule?

They've already shown that they are modifying weapon profiles and datasheets. At this point I wouldn't rule anything out until we explicitly see otherwise.

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

 Stus67 wrote:
If you think they went overboard with this book then imagine how the next ones for other factions are going to be. If you think crazy rules and supplements are gonna stop here than you're too naive, and tbh I'm kinda looking forward to it.

We better get just as good rules for DIY CSM warbands...

Legion Tactics that are more than just -1 to Leadership and Reroll Morale.

I want legion special units instead. I WANT MY ALPHA LEGION AGENT!
Or a squad of WB dark crusaders.
etc.

Or rules that benefit from bigger squads since, well y know , chaos legions still fight in bigger squads?

All of the above?

Soon Legion book supplement. might even get some stuff over from 30k

But honestly, i'd still rather see a propper lost and the damned dex before that, but i am MAYBEE biased

 Stus67 wrote:
If you think they went overboard with this book then imagine how the next ones for other factions are going to be. If you think crazy rules and supplements are gonna stop here then you're too naive, and tbh I'm kinda looking forward to it.

Have you read the beta Sisters dex - it is nowhere near that.....maybe it will catch up to these improvements - having Order Tactics apply to vehicles as SM do will eb a good start.

The new Primaris stuff continues to be dumb, tacking Marines from Knights in space into Tom Clancy spec ops types.

Feel quite the opposite - especially when you look at gak like Centurions and non FW Marine flyers. Really like the newer stealthy Marines. Makes me want to start a fourth marine army Raven guard.....

So I now have to replace my codex and datacards, and as an added bonus it'll cost me twice as much as last time. Thanks GW

I'm not too surprised they didn't call out DW when listing new units.

I do hope they get combat doctrines at least. And the Impulsor would be an amazing addition to the DW.

Quasistellar wrote:
I'm not too surprised they didn't call out DW when listing new units.

I do hope they get combat doctrines at least. And the Impulsor would be an amazing addition to the DW.

I'd be surprised if Impulsors don't show up. Don't expect the warsuit though.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

KurtAngle2 wrote:

Sterling191 wrote:

bullyboy wrote:
Dude, DW are specialists with their own abililties. They are still solid and one of the better marine armies. SS/SB with SIA still solid.

Did you ever consider for a moment that maybe I dont want to play nothing but shields and stormbolter gak? Or maybe I want to have Primaris on the table?

KurtAngle2 wrote:

Not anymore. They got almost invalidated thanks to +3" range with 6+++ FNP guys that use Tactical Doctrine from turn 2 onwards...

The combinations one can put together with the new options make Deathwatch look like stodgy old caricatures of Ultramarines, bitching about how nobody follows the codex anymore.

Not only DW, every single non-codex Marine chapter got rekt

Especially Grey Knights


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 bullyboy wrote:

Sterling191 wrote:

bullyboy wrote:
Dude, DW are specialists with their own abililties. They are still solid and one of the better marine armies. SS/SB with SIA still solid.

Did you ever consider for a moment that maybe I dont want to play nothing but shields and stormbolter gak? Or maybe I want to have Primaris on the table? This isnt even about competitive versus casual options as i cannot even play the units

KurtAngle2 wrote:

Not anymore. They got almost invalidated thanks to +3" range with 6+++ FNP guys that use Tactical Doctrine from turn 2 onwards...

The combinations one can put together with the new options make Deathwatch look like stodgy old caricatures of Ultramarines, bitching about how nobody follows the codex anymore.

Frag cannons still rock, we have Ultramarine ability with no -1 to hit, etc. Deathwatch are still solid. People are loving this new marine stuff, and rightly so, but points are still a thing.
Deathwatch cannot complain, we are fine.

Frag Cannons are 25 frickin points. People mostly stopped using them for a reason.

Which is a mistake IMHO. Use one in each of my sqds successfully for the cost of one additional veteran? People always follow other people (especially the loud ones), but I have yet to regret taking one in my sqds and they have often been big factors in games won. But sheeple prevail.

My Ap-4 Lascannons on my Contemptor Dreads and AP-3 Stormcannon Arrays. Unless Doctrines end up as a Infantry only thing.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Quasistellar wrote:
I'm not too surprised they didn't call out DW when listing new units.

I do hope they get combat doctrines at least. And the Impulsor would be an amazing addition to the DW.

I'd be surprised if Impulsors don't show up. Don't expect the warsuit though.

If anything, the war suit perfectly fits with the Deathwatch fighting doctrine.

So my terminators seem to go from (Eh - What the helk!)

AS they can now all fire -1 ap and can charge and advance with the white scar rules.

Which makes them hilarious.

 bullyboy wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

KurtAngle2 wrote:

Sterling191 wrote:

bullyboy wrote:
Dude, DW are specialists with their own abililties. They are still solid and one of the better marine armies. SS/SB with SIA still solid.

Did you ever consider for a moment that maybe I dont want to play nothing but shields and stormbolter gak? Or maybe I want to have Primaris on the table?

KurtAngle2 wrote:

Not anymore. They got almost invalidated thanks to +3" range with 6+++ FNP guys that use Tactical Doctrine from turn 2 onwards...

The combinations one can put together with the new options make Deathwatch look like stodgy old caricatures of Ultramarines, bitching about how nobody follows the codex anymore.

Not only DW, every single non-codex Marine chapter got rekt

Especially Grey Knights


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 bullyboy wrote:

Sterling191 wrote:

bullyboy wrote:
Dude, DW are specialists with their own abililties. They are still solid and one of the better marine armies. SS/SB with SIA still solid.

Did you ever consider for a moment that maybe I dont want to play nothing but shields and stormbolter gak? Or maybe I want to have Primaris on the table? This isnt even about competitive versus casual options as i cannot even play the units

KurtAngle2 wrote:

Not anymore. They got almost invalidated thanks to +3" range with 6+++ FNP guys that use Tactical Doctrine from turn 2 onwards...

The combinations one can put together with the new options make Deathwatch look like stodgy old caricatures of Ultramarines, bitching about how nobody follows the codex anymore.

Frag cannons still rock, we have Ultramarine ability with no -1 to hit, etc. Deathwatch are still solid. People are loving this new marine stuff, and rightly so, but points are still a thing.
Deathwatch cannot complain, we are fine.

Frag Cannons are 25 frickin points. People mostly stopped using them for a reason.

Which is a mistake IMHO. Use one in each of my sqds successfully for the cost of one additional veteran? People always follow other people (especially the loud ones), but I have yet to regret taking one in my sqds and they have often been big factors in games won. But sheeple prevail.

Actually it's the cost of almost two Vets.

Also the whole "sheeple" or "L2P" or "it is how you use the units" or "netlist" etc. is stuff that does nothing to help your point. A model with a Frag Cannon is 39 points. On already expensive squads it eats into the cost of the army.

I'm honestly kind of shocked they didn't preview the Chaplain rules.

Kanluwen wrote:

Quasistellar wrote:
I'm not too surprised they didn't call out DW when listing new units.

I do hope they get combat doctrines at least. And the Impulsor would be an amazing addition to the DW.

I'd be surprised if Impulsors don't show up. Don't expect the warsuit though.

I'm not going to be too broken up about not getting doctrines. Its the lack of unit options that's infuriating as feth. Eliminators, Suppressors and to a lesser extent the Infiltrators would be massive infantry assets, while the Impulsor opens up a lot of mobility. Cold go either way on the Warsuit tbh, itd probably come down to points cost.

 bullyboy wrote:

Which is a mistake IMHO. Use one in each of my sqds successfully for the cost of one additional veteran? People always follow other people (especially the loud ones), but I have yet to regret taking one in my sqds and they have often been big factors in games won. But sheeple prevail.

Oh look, you've devolved to the "you are a terrible player and suck" argument. That's so terribly persuasive.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Crazyterran wrote:
I'm honestly kind of shocked they didn't preview the Chaplain rules.

Gotta save stuff for the rest of the week. Psyker disciplines and strategems can only carry them so far.

I'm willing to bet UM will have stratagems that let them move back and forth on the Doctrines table, or even use two at once.

Mediocre trait, but...

Audustum wrote:


I am shedding a tear for the poor GK's though. Likely to be totally forgotten again and now severely outclassed by their 'brothers'. Especially because GW said they will not be getting any Primaris.

With the Psychic Awakening event/campaign/whatever the heck its is on the horizon, I'd be surprised if an Imperial force that's entirely psychic didn't get some kind of attention.

 Crazyterran wrote:
I'm willing to bet UM will have stratagems that let them move back and forth on the Doctrines table, or even use two at once.

Mediocre trait, but...

You don't "move" on a table for Doctrines from the reading of it.

You start the game with Devastator Doctrine on.

At the start of any turn after the first turn, you then choose either of the other two Doctrines to use. Once you swap Doctrines though, that's it. You don't get to reuse it.

I'd imagine that the Supplements might actually bring a unique Doctrine for the Chapter, or that the named Chapter Masters/Captains might allow for you to have two of them active at a time--something like that.

 Crazyterran wrote:
I'm honestly kind of shocked they didn't preview the Chaplain rules.

They did.

 Crazyterran wrote:
I'm willing to bet UM will have stratagems that let them move back and forth on the Doctrines table, or even use two at once.

Mediocre trait, but...

yeah my thinking too.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:
I'm willing to bet UM will have stratagems that let them move back and forth on the Doctrines table, or even use two at once.

Mediocre trait, but...

You don't "move" on a table for Doctrines from the reading of it.

You start the game with Devastator Doctrine on.

At the start of any turn after the first turn, you then choose either of the other two Doctrines to use. Once you swap Doctrines though, that's it. You don't get to reuse it.

I'd imagine that the Supplements might actually bring a unique Doctrine for the Chapter, or that the named Chapter Masters/Captains might allow for you to have two of them active at a time--something like that.

That's not how it is presented in WH community :

Your Space Marines will begin the battle with the Devastator Doctrine active. At the start of any of your turns (after the first), you can choose to change from the Devastator Doctrine to the Tactical Doctrine, and again on a later turn, from the Tactical Doctrine to the Assault Doctrine.

So it is sequential.

Anyone else think that with the Devastator doctrine on the new Dreadnought ( war suit thing) that it will be able to clear a good few units away turn one? It gets to set up close to the enemy then move and use it’s guns with an extra ap on them both. One of which is auto hit with 2d6 st5 ap-2 shots and the other 6 st7 ap-2 shots

 Ravajaxe wrote:

That's not how it is presented in WH community :

Your Space Marines will begin the battle with the Devastator Doctrine active. At the start of any of your turns (after the first), you can choose to change from the Devastator Doctrine to the Tactical Doctrine, and again on a later turn, from the Tactical Doctrine to the Assault Doctrine.

So it is sequential.

Yeah, I missed the bit about the sequential--but still. It isn't a table or anything like that--you choose to activate them or you can just leave it alone.

Assault Vehicle

Does not let you assault out

That is a bit pants.

On the plus side, I got to make a haiku.

It is a 99.5% chance there will be a stratagem to change your doctrine. These rules are basically from 7th edition and 4th edition.

Have they always painted Reivers with a Blue Sheen on the Blade?

I wonder when all this stuff gets Appcolypse rules?

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
Have they always painted Reivers with a Blue Sheen on the Blade?

Spoiler:

Maybe they finally will get power knife?.. Or monomolecular blade, or indominus pattern vengeance deathbringer (AP1/AP2) blade.