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I'm just starting out with GSC, and am building up a 1000pt list built around the models I have from a box set.
I've only played a couple of games and am getting to grips with the complexities of the army. I'm looking at playing in a small 1000 point tournament in my local game club in the new year, in a marine heavy meta and I'd like to play with my cult.
I've been playing Orks and AdMech for a while, and want to mix it up. Im finding that Aberrants, whilst effective are very expensive, and I've been running 4 armed emperor and some acolyte hybrids and saws and making the most of the deployment shenanigans but I'm finding the army very unforgiving, slip ups are rewarded with harsh punishment.
I'm toying with rusted claw to help with survivability, but my instinct with this army is to go all out aggressive, rather than buff resilience.
Any tips for a newbie to prevail with bolter heavy, marine shenanigans?

Melee sanctus isn't so bad at the moment if you think about it.
55 Pts for a Primaris marine killer, you make him Bladed Cog for the additional attacks stratagems and to give him an (albeit not worth much by itself) invulnerable save of 6++.
From this point onwards you can give him the following relics:

1) Amulet of the Voidwyrm for a 55 pts characters that acts like a new Tyr Lictor with the added benefit of MAKING a charge 100% of the time with the 0 CP Perfect Ambush on him, denying overwatch to all units he declares a charge (and considering his base size I'd say 2 units won't be able to shoot overwatch again).

2) Mark of the Clawed Omnissiah for a 3++ that in tandem with Unquestioning Loyalty and D3 Wounds restored from 1 CP stratagems makes him obnoxious as feth for measly 55 points.

Opinions?

scratch this

Bladed cog is my faction of choice. An abdominant with the mark of the ckawed omnisia and the born survior warlord trait kills guilliman and knights.

dreadlybrew wrote:
Bladed cog is my faction of choice. An abdominant with the mark of the ckawed omnisia and the born survior warlord trait kills guilliman and knights.

Very slowly, I would think. It's amazingly tanky but with 3 attacks on 4+ to hit, a lot of fight phases are going to end with just a single successful attack for 3-6 damage (or worse, no hits at all). Guilliman can probably still kill even a marked Abominant with his return fire, a Knight won't even be bracketed, will step out of the combat, and do what it wants on the following turn.

Bad targets for that Abominant, he should be tying up stuff that doesn't want to be in CC or can't fall back with impunity. Much like most of the army, he's better off being built to maximize the effect of his initial arrival, though I personally still have a hard time justifying the CP for extra relics on him even then.

You would be surprised. With a primus in range and overthrow the oppressors and a group of abberants around he is a monster.

He can do it all on his own. Dont forget he has familar claw attacks too. They are dinky and everyone ignores them.

Its foolish to assume that any gsc model is good alone. They all need the hero onion to rock out.

If you want to clear out anything use overthrow the oppressors on pick and claw abberants within the range of an abdominant. If you have them augmented or buffed with might from beyond it only.takes 3 abberants to kill 8 to 10 guys.

r_squared wrote:I'm just starting out with GSC, and am building up a 1000pt list built around the models I have from a box set.
I've only played a couple of games and am getting to grips with the complexities of the army. I'm looking at playing in a small 1000 point tournament in my local game club in the new year, in a marine heavy meta and I'd like to play with my cult.

[…]

Any tips for a newbie to prevail with bolter heavy, marine shenanigans?

Welcome!

From my own experience, the main concern we have with the new marines is their Infiltrators and their deep strike denial bubbles. Our assault units can generally dispatch most Marine units without much trouble once they are able to get to grips with them (and we have tools to shut down overwatch and improve the reliability of charges) so your main concern is making sure that they have safe landing points.

I would suggest looking at Bladed Cog over the Rusted Claw in a marine-heavy environment. The added AP from Doctrines shuts down the main benefit of Rusted Claw and, unless you are bringing Jackals, the rest of their toolbox isn't as deep. Bladed Cog is also one of the better creeds for Aberrants if you wish to use them (especially with their recent price hike).

Could you provide a rough list of what models you have available?

KurtAngle2 wrote:Melee sanctus isn't so bad at the moment if you think about it.

I'd agree for the most part, though if you are looking specifically for a Primaris killer the Locus might be worth looking at as well (especially with Bladed Cog where they get a 4++). The Sanctus is, however, much better suited for hunting higher toughness infantry and monster models where they can leverage their fixed 2+ to wound and high volume of attacks to put damage through.

Madjob wrote:
Very slowly, I would think. It's amazingly tanky but with 3 attacks on 4+ to hit, a lot of fight phases are going to end with just a single successful attack for 3-6 damage (or worse, no hits at all). Guilliman can probably still kill even a marked Abominant with his return fire, a Knight won't even be bracketed, will step out of the combat, and do what it wants on the following turn.

The tricky thing is factoring in his Chosen One ability. I have had more than few instances where I only scored 1-2 natural hits but because both were 6's I ended with 2-4 hits. I don't really use mine for hunting Lords of War anymore (that job is better left to Acolytes or Hammer-Aberrants), but he is good at wrecking more ordinary vehicles and monsters. He generally won't do it by himself, but he also is usually far cheaper than his target so it balances out.

It is also worth noting that he does have a S6 rending claw if you are fighting ordinary infantry. No point in taking the -1 to hit against 1-wound models.

 Strat_N8 wrote:

Madjob wrote:
Very slowly, I would think. It's amazingly tanky but with 3 attacks on 4+ to hit, a lot of fight phases are going to end with just a single successful attack for 3-6 damage (or worse, no hits at all). Guilliman can probably still kill even a marked Abominant with his return fire, a Knight won't even be bracketed, will step out of the combat, and do what it wants on the following turn.

The tricky thing is factoring in his Chosen One ability. I have had more than few instances where I only scored 1-2 natural hits but because both were 6's I ended with 2-4 hits. I don't really use mine for hunting Lords of War anymore (that job is better left to Acolytes or Hammer-Aberrants), but he is good at wrecking more ordinary vehicles and monsters. He generally won't do it by himself, but he also is usually far cheaper than his target so it balances out.

It is also worth noting that he does have a S6 rending claw if you are fighting ordinary infantry. No point in taking the -1 to hit against 1-wound models.

Chosen one is extremely swingy on three attacks, you're talking about it triggering every 0.5 attacks per fight phase, mathematically. You can improve that with a Primus of course, but yea I would honestly just pretend it isn't even there when it comes to my expectations for its performance. As far as rending claws go, yes, nice to have the option to be more efficient against certain targets. Still only 3 attacks and we have two other light to medium infantry blender characters in the form of the Patriarch and Primus.

I have been looking up and down for excuses to field the Abominant as it is my second favorite character model the army has, but that point increase and Hammer nerf from T&C to codex was just too heavy to reconcile.

Madjob wrote:

Chosen one is extremely swingy on three attacks, you're talking about it triggering every 0.5 attacks per fight phase, mathematically.

That's more or less what I was trying to get at. His attacks are rather susceptible to spiking beyond what statistics suggest he "should" get (bit like the Shock Attack Gun, if not quite as drastic) which makes his actual table performance is hard to predict. Some games when the dice are on fire he can smash everything he comes across, while in other games when the dice are more cold his offense suffers.

When I bring mine I usually bring him for his durability and then allow myself to be pleasantly surprised when/if his dice spike against something. He still commands some respect from opponents (no one wants to risk him rolling well and flattening something important) while being tough enough to weather some abuse.

Madjob wrote:

I have been looking up and down for excuses to field the Abominant as it is my second favorite character model the army has, but that point increase and Hammer nerf from T&C to codex was just too heavy to reconcile.

Try running him as Pauper Princes. Their relic has a very nice set of benefits and he is the toughest platform to lug it around to get the most out of it. The cult creed ability also goes a good way towards mitigating the to-hit penalty and gives extra chances to roll 6's. The Bladed Cog pseudo-smash captain is also nice and a configuration that I enjoy running, but he is more for use as an anvil than a hammer.

If you happen to be bringing Aberrants (which is admittedly a big if at the current price point) he also allows different creeds to mimic the Four Armed Emperor ability through the Insidious Mindwyrm field commander trait, so you can use the tools in the other creeds that benefit Aberrants without loosing out on charge enhancement.

 Strat_N8 wrote:

r_squared wrote:I'm just starting out with GSC, and am building up a 1000pt list built around the models I have from a box set.
I've only played a couple of games and am getting to grips with the complexities of the army. I'm looking at playing in a small 1000 point tournament in my local game club in the new year, in a marine heavy meta and I'd like to play with my cult.

[…]

Any tips for a newbie to prevail with bolter heavy, marine shenanigans?

Welcome!

From my own experience, the main concern we have with the new marines is their Infiltrators and their deep strike denial bubbles. Our assault units can generally dispatch most Marine units without much trouble once they are able to get to grips with them (and we have tools to shut down overwatch and improve the reliability of charges) so your main concern is making sure that they have safe landing points.

I would suggest looking at Bladed Cog over the Rusted Claw in a marine-heavy environment. The added AP from Doctrines shuts down the main benefit of Rusted Claw and, unless you are bringing Jackals, the rest of their toolbox isn't as deep. Bladed Cog is also one of the better creeds for Aberrants if you wish to use them (especially with their recent price hike).

Could you provide a rough list of what models you have available?

Thank you for the welcome, I've found them an interesting army to field, very different from both of my other armies in many ways, which is what I like.
Basically my current army is based on the contents of the Death watch Overkill box with a few extra bits and pieces I've bought to be getting on with. I've realised that the army is very CP heavy, and relies on a lot of support from its many characters, their buffs and interactions so I've picked up a few of these in order to supplement what I have.
I'm interested in the way that Aberrants are boosted by Bladed Cog, im guessing the exploding 6's strat? Anything else?
I'd thought about painting my cult up in this way to tie in with the AdMech that I already own. Making a narrative that my cult are from one of my AdMech forge world's, not anything to do with the game, just a bit of head narrative for me.
Current models are
Patriarch
Magus
Primus
4x Abberants
12 Acolyte Hybrids
12x Neophyte Hybrids, 2x grenade launcher, 2x mining laser
I've supplemented them with chaos cultists to make complete squads and have a bunch of genestealers
Stuff on the way,
Iconward
More Acolyte Hybrids
Clamavus
Sanctus
More Aberrants
Abominant
Once my new stuff arrives, I was thinking of this list;

 r_squared wrote:

I'm interested in the way that Aberrants are boosted by Bladed Cog, im guessing the exploding 6's strat? Anything else?

They appreciate having an invulnerable save (even at a 6++) since it adds another defensive layer against high impact weapons. As discussed above, the Abominant also really likes the Bladed Cog's unique relic since it cranks up his durability

Another thing is that Bladed Cog's trait encourages taking Neophytes with heavy weapons to fill its troops quota, so the elite melee options aren't competing with Acolytes as much for resources.

 r_squared wrote:

Current models are
Patriarch
Magus
Primus
4x Abberants
12 Acolyte Hybrids
12x Neophyte Hybrids, 2x grenade launcher, 2x mining laser
I've supplemented them with chaos cultists to make complete squads and have a bunch of genestealers
Stuff on the way,
Iconward
More Acolyte Hybrids
Clamavus
Sanctus
More Aberrants
Abominant

That's a pretty good start, though I think you might want to focus on bulking up your troops allotment. As you said, we do consume a lot of command points and your troops are the key to unlocking them (and regardless, our troops are pretty good overall). If you aren't planning to invest in vehicles you might also want to pick up some Atalan Jackals to use for your on-table presence. They are fast and fairly tough for their points. They make a good bodyguard unit for a footslogging Patriarch since they can keep up with him well and are a pain to shoot at.

I do like the idea regarding linking your cult to your Admech. My own hybrids are painted to match my Tyranid army.


Regarding your list, a couple thoughts:

1. You probably don't need Four-Armed Emperor and the Anointed Throng and Clamavus. While the +3 to charges is appealing, I fear you might be getting diminishing returns since you are pooling a lot of resources into what will probably be a once a game effect at the current points bracket.

2. Related to above, you have a lot of command points already spent before the game so I don't expect you will have enough to make use of A Plan Generation's In The Making (and if you do, you sacrifice ambush manipulation). With that in mind, you might want to play around with the Pauper Princes or Twisted Helix. Pauper Princes like most of what you have and can take advantage of your concentration of characters to trigger their signature stratagem, while Twisted Helix provides a generally useful strength buff and will give your Neophytes a bit of a speed boost.

3. I'm a little worried about your overall model count, as you have a lot of "toys" and not that many "boys" to borrow the Orkish idiom. GSC is rather fragile and you only have 30 disposable bodies to protect the 14 important bodies. You might want to consider dropping the Hypermorph from the Aberrant squad and the Grenade Launchers from the Neophytes to scrounge up enough points for another squad of troops just to give you a few more bodies to work with.

I hope those observations are useful to you.

 Strat_N8 wrote:
...Regarding your list, a couple thoughts:

1. You probably don't need Four-Armed Emperor and the Anointed Throng and Clamavus. While the +3 to charges is appealing, I fear you might be getting diminishing returns since you are pooling a lot of resources into what will probably be a once a game effect at the current points bracket.

2. Related to above, you have a lot of command points already spent before the game so I don't expect you will have enough to make use of A Plan Generation's In The Making (and if you do, you sacrifice ambush manipulation). With that in mind, you might want to play around with the Pauper Princes or Twisted Helix. Pauper Princes like most of what you have and can take advantage of your concentration of characters to trigger their signature stratagem, while Twisted Helix provides a generally useful strength buff and will give your Neophytes a bit of a speed boost.

3. I'm a little worried about your overall model count, as you have a lot of "toys" and not that many "boys" to borrow the Orkish idiom. GSC is rather fragile and you only have 30 disposable bodies to protect the 14 important bodies. You might want to consider dropping the Hypermorph from the Aberrant squad and the Grenade Launchers from the Neophytes to scrounge up enough points for another squad of troops just to give you a few more bodies to work with.

I hope those observations are useful to you.

They are very useful, thank you for taking the time for some pointers. It did feel a little "top heavy", I'll have another look at the list based on your suggestions and give it ago on the table.

So, what is going on with the Kelermorph?
Very clearly in the codex and featuring in many GSC armies, but seemingly can only be purchased as part of the Kill Team boxed set which appears to not be stocked by GW?
Am I missing something here?

Sadly you are correct in that he isn’t available at the moment. I think we will probably get him as a separate release when we get our Installment of Psychic Awakening. At the earliest that might be with The Saga of The Beast book, but it wouldn’t be too surprising if ours was after that (GSC tends to get pitted against AdMech and we know they have a plane and character release coming up).

With that being said, it is fairly easy to convert your own. The Kelermorph is about the same size as the Primus (main difference being the pose) and the heavy weapon Neophyte's torso is about the same style. Just need some suitable pistols and a masked 3rd generation head.

A question. I've played few games with GSC and most of the games ended with me being almost tabled. I'm thinking about adding some Tyranid allies for durability, never played nids before. Don't even own the codex yet but I'd like to know what bugs other people are using as allies.

The core of my Cult army is pretty much this:

12 Neophytes, shotguns & 2 flamers
10 Neophytes, autoguns, grenade launchers & mining lasers
15 Acolytes, 2 saws
15 Acolytes, saw & icon

10 Aberrants, 2 improvised, 3 hammers, 5 picks.

Ridgerunner with ML

These I have, trying to find the right mixture in 1000 to 1500pts games:

Primus
Magos
Iconward
Abominant
Patriarch.

Also have 16 purestrains, seem too expensive pointswise. And up to 60 Brood brothers but I'd rather save them for other games. They're part of my Savlar chem dogs project.

So how would you build a list with these and what Tyranids would you add that have at least t4 and better than 5+ save? No pts limit or anything, just ideas.

My go-to ally detachment is generally either a Spearhead with Old One Eye and an assortment of Carnifexes (maybe a Malceptor or Hive Tyrant thrown in for synapse) or a battalion with the same core but some 'stealer broods and a Brood Lord added in. Carnifexes are fairly customizable to suit whatever gaps you need filled and are fairly inexpensive if you don't go crazy with the upgrades. Incidentally it is also a rather fluffy detachment if you are using the Behemoid Undercult color scheme.

With the recent cost drops and new toys from Blood of Baal, I want to try the old Living Artillery Node (Exocrines, Biovores, and a block of Warriors to provide synapse). Plasma is one thing we are lacking in and Warriors with adaptations and their new -1 damage stratagem are fairly tough now.

As a caveat, my general experience has been that when I mix my GSC and Tyranids the latter tends to be the larger force unless I am going heavy on GSC mech. Tyranids are even more reliant on threat saturation than we are to compensate for the fact they have to footslog for the most part and thus have to eat shooting every turn.

The bladed cog abberants strat is bonkers good with a primus around.

Technically you can use the overthrow the oppressors otto on any bladed cog unit. I've found it to be most effective on pick abberants and heavy improvised weapon abberants.

The key here is that they get another attack. So you use the profile of the weapon. 3 5+ hits with aan abberant with a stop sign explode onto 6 more attacks.

Heavy pick otto triggers extra free rending claw attacks which themselves can trigger otto attacks. It is amazing.

Its really interesting to see people move towards using Hivecult/Bladed Cog. I have been running my GSC as Hivecult since the beginning and have always sworn by battle bus Trucks and Ridgerunners

To help counter the new marines I have been thinking about moving towards more mechanised Cult lists. Because Marines can push out our deepstrike to 12" and also Auspex Scan, my combat infantry units have been having a hard time. GSC have access to a few tasty shooty buffs such as the Jackel Alphus. Below is the list I am currently toying with.

Detachment 1: Hivecult Battalion
Magus, Hivelord Warlord Trait (reroll 1s in shooting for units in 6")
Jackel Alphus
10x Neophytes with 2x Heavy Stubbers and 2x GL in a Goliath Truck
10x Neophytes with 2x Heavy Stubbers and 2x GL in a Goliath Truck
10x Neophytes with 2x Heavy Stubbers and 2x GL in a Goliath Truck
Ridgerunner with Flare and Heavy Mining Laser
Ridgerunner with Flare and Heavy Mining Laser
Ridgerunner with Flare and Heavy Mining Laser
Cult Leman Russ: Executioner Plasma Cannon and 3x Heavy Bolters
Cult Leman Russ: Executioner Plasma Cannon and 3x Heavy Bolters
Cult Leman Russ: Executioner Plasma Cannon and 3x Heavy Bolters

Detachment 2: Hivecult Battalion
Primus
Jackel Alphus
10x Neophytes with 2x Heavy Stubbers and 2x GL in a Goliath Truck
10x Neophytes with 2x Heavy Stubbers and 2x GL in a Goliath Truck
10x Neophytes with 1x Heavy Stubbers and 2x GL in a Goliath Truck
Rock Grinder: Clearance Incinerator
Rock Grinder: Clearance Incinerator
Rock Grinder: Clearance Incinerator

My thinking behind this list is to form the army into 2 fire bases and distraction force. I would have the 3 trucks and the Ridgerunners in one fire base with a Jackal and the Warlord and have the other 3 trucks, Jackal and the Leman Russes in the other fire base. The Rock Grinders would go bang in the middle of the board with the Primus riding in the back of one, their job is to be a classic distraction Carnifex and just speed up the battle field and draw as much fire as possible before they die. Everyone I have ever faced when using my Rock Grinders has shot them first simply because they look intimating (this is both in casual play and at tournaments!)

The Leman Russes also serve as a second layer of distraction. The Russ has a reputation across 40k as being a nasty unit and is a much more obvious target then a ridgerunner or truck. However, in reality the Cult Russ is a trap for the enemy. As they don't benefit from cult traits I actually don't mind if the enemy kills them. Because every shot that goes into the Russes is one that isn't targeting the real source of my firepower, which is the Trucks and Ridgerunners. Both of these units will be benefiting from +1 to hit from the Jackals, some of them will be getting rerolls from the Warlord and if I need to I can also pop the Hivecult Strat for another +1 to hit.

Another reason I like this concept is its simple and doesn't rely on gimmicks. It does not rely on ambushing, but still takes advantage of blip deployment so I can push back units that want to turn 1 charge. I'm not at risk of people screening me out, which is traditional cults biggest problem. I still have good mobility with all the trucks too and plenty of CP and Obsec.

What do people think? I am open to thoughts and criticism!

That's a pretty good trap, because 3 Russes will have a significant impact if left unattended

I like it mate. Honestly though, I'd consider an allied Guard Supreme Command for triple tank commander, seems like it would work perfectly here.

 FatBoyNoSlim wrote:

What do people think? I am open to thoughts and criticism!

One minor nitpick, but the Cult Russ can't take the Executioner as a turret mount unfortunately. It has to be the Battle Cannon, Vanquisher, Exterminator Autocannon, or Eradicator Nova Cannon.

Ignoring that, I very much like that list and the logic behind it is sound. I've been doing something similar but with Ridgerunners replacing the Cult Russes (I have 6 in total) and a mix of Siesmic Cannons/Mining Lasers instead of Heavy Stubbers. How have the clearance incinerators been serving you? I've been somewhat tempted to retrofit my Rockgrinders with one of the cheaper weapons since the to-hit penalty isn't as problematic with Hivecult and the reduced cost makes them more disposable.

Assuming you can find the points (admittedly a very big if), it might not hurt to add a unit or two of Jackals for screening and quick objective grabs (via Flare Launchers). I've had good results with them in my mechanized builds and they are cheap enough that they can take hits for the Alphus if needed.

KurtAngle2 wrote:
Melee sanctus isn't so bad at the moment if you think about it.
55 Pts for a Primaris marine killer, you make him Bladed Cog for the additional attacks stratagems and to give him an (albeit not worth much by itself) invulnerable save of 6++.
From this point onwards you can give him the following relics:

1) Amulet of the Voidwyrm for a 55 pts characters that acts like a new Tyr Lictor with the added benefit of MAKING a charge 100% of the time with the 0 CP Perfect Ambush on him, denying overwatch to all units he declares a charge (and considering his base size I'd say 2 units won't be able to shoot overwatch again).

2) Mark of the Clawed Omnissiah for a 3++ that in tandem with Unquestioning Loyalty and D3 Wounds restored from 1 CP stratagems makes him obnoxious as feth for measly 55 points.

Opinions?

Ive been playing alot versus Primarus Marines
1) I usually take Amulet of the Voidwyrm on my Patriarch, there's an opportunity cost there I'd probably take the Mark instead.
2) If you are using APA on your Santus you arent using it on your rocksaws/abberrants
3) If you load up on a Relic and use APA your Primarus opponent is going to Auspex Scan and kill him although Mathhammer suggests you'll survive with a 3++ against 20 Bs+4(-1 to hit) Bolter shots.

Resipsa131 wrote:

KurtAngle2 wrote:
Melee sanctus isn't so bad at the moment if you think about it.
55 Pts for a Primaris marine killer, you make him Bladed Cog for the additional attacks stratagems and to give him an (albeit not worth much by itself) invulnerable save of 6++.
From this point onwards you can give him the following relics:

1) Amulet of the Voidwyrm for a 55 pts characters that acts like a new Tyr Lictor with the added benefit of MAKING a charge 100% of the time with the 0 CP Perfect Ambush on him, denying overwatch to all units he declares a charge (and considering his base size I'd say 2 units won't be able to shoot overwatch again).

2) Mark of the Clawed Omnissiah for a 3++ that in tandem with Unquestioning Loyalty and D3 Wounds restored from 1 CP stratagems makes him obnoxious as feth for measly 55 points.

Opinions?

Ive been playing alot versus Primarus Marines
1) I usually take Amulet of the Voidwyrm on my Patriarch, there's an opportunity cost there I'd probably take the Mark instead.
2) If you are using APA on your Santus you arent using it on your rocksaws/abberrants
3) If you load up on a Relic and use APA your Primarus opponent is going to Auspex Scan and kill him although Mathhammer suggests you'll survive with a 3++ against 20 Bs+4(-1 to hit) Bolter shots.

Could you not summon the sanctus with telepathic summons on T1, then use APA? That wouldnt be too CP intensive and would have a better chance of happening due to the lower power level.

Resipsa131 wrote:
Ive been playing alot versus Primarus Marines
1) I usually take Amulet of the Voidwyrm on my Patriarch, there's an opportunity cost there I'd probably take the Mark instead.
2) If you are using APA on your Santus you arent using it on your rocksaws/abberrants
3) If you load up on a Relic and use APA your Primarus opponent is going to Auspex Scan and kill him although Mathhammer suggests you'll survive with a 3++ against 20 Bs+4(-1 to hit) Bolter shots.

You can probably get around #2 by having the Sanctus drop in one of the later turns (possibly have him hide in a corner and deploy via Return to Shadows if needed). At that point command points should be spent and there should also be more board space available to drop him in range of something you want torn up.

The Auspex Scan is an issue, though I'm not sure if it allows models to bypass the character restrictions if another unit is closer. Could always drop a sacrificial unit behind the intended target with Lying in Wait and then drop the Sanctus.

FatBoyNoSlim wrote:
Could you not summon the sanctus with telepathic summons on T1, then use APA? That wouldnt be too CP intensive and would have a better chance of happening due to the lower power level.

This could work, though a potential pitfall is that on the first turn most of the opponent's force should be relatively intact, so finding a good landing zone might be a challenge.

Reminds me, I do want to test out an early pressure/alpha strike gimmick list at some point. Push up 3 units of 12 Jackals via Flare Launchers (20'' up + 12'' shotguns), 1 Acolyte or Neophyte unit from a Broodsurge Goliath (13-18'' move, 3'' disembark), and maybe 1 summoned unit (deepstrike). Just pin the foe in their own deployment zone (or engage early if they went first) and hopefully buy space for deep strike units to come on to finish the job.

So we are getting rules alongside DG and Tau in the next PA book. Assuming the usual format, what are some hopes from stratagems, relics, and warlord traits? Will we get custom army traits or not?

I'd like to see some Brood Brother targeting stratagems, some stuff to help boost their shooting output on key turns.

Build your own cult traits are likely, but a decent chance they will be useless.
Probably some stratagems that are way to niche.
Probably some relics but GSC already has good ones.

Basically I would expect nothing of importance and be pleasantly surprised when its actually useable.

I'd love to see something that enables other playstyles than melee rush. I don't think GW can make mechanised infantry playable in this edition of 40k, but that is top of my wish list.

I do expect a couple of stratagems that will target units that have not sold much, like the rockgrinder and the ridgerunners.

Madjob wrote: Assuming the usual format, what are some hopes from stratagems, relics, and warlord traits? Will we get custom army traits or not?

I'd like to see some Brood Brother targeting stratagems, some stuff to help boost their shooting output on key turns.

I am fairly confident we will see custom traits, especially given that there are several "official" cults that do not presently have associated creeds and thus far each faction that has subfactions has gotten some form of them.

The main thing I'd like to see is some additional tools that would allow us to get around deep strike denial. Between Marines and Alpha Legion it is very difficult to run a mass ambush style list. Most of the tournament lists I have seen lately have been more hybrid lists with a Tyranid component to push back the opponent and clear screens. A stratagem that allows a handful of ambush tokens to be set up outside of the deployment zone would be nice.

Mellon wrote:I don't think GW can make mechanised infantry playable in this edition of 40k, but that is top of my wish list.

The Orks have been experimenting with some mechanized builds lately from what I have seen and the Dark Eldar/Druhkari tend towards mechanized troops as well, so the concept as a whole isn't invalid. I think Hivecult mech has quite a bit of potential with the cost drop to Ridgerunners (they really like Chilling Efficiency), but the other creeds could certainly do with a bit of help to their motor pools.

Mellon wrote:
I'd love to see something that enables other playstyles than melee rush.

Same. I feel like if you go Bladed Cog or Hivecult to try and shoot better that you're really just playing a worse version of Astra Militarum. We need our own thing or at least a better way to play combined shooting/melee. Instead of going 'all in' on one or the other.

Wanted to make sure you guys saw that there's a Start Collecting set and the Kelermorph going up for order next Saturday!

Start Collecting is changed compared to the version in the book, no Goliath--you get a Ridgerunner instead.

Not bad! By my estimates that is around $150 USD so assuming the usual discount one basically gets the Ridgerunner for "free". Looks like it should be a good box, just about everything in it is something that one will want multiples of (in the case of Iconwards multiples are good to have for Apocalyse and can be converted to Acolyte leaders without much hassle if one doesn't play Apocalypse).

On a tactics related note, I saw some reports from the LVO that suggested a good showing on the part of GSC with a bit of Tyranid allies to clear screens. I saw one troop-centric list and saw reference to another that was spamming Aberrants (have not been able to track down that particular list).

I'll update the main post when they start previewing whatever we will be getting from the Greater Good book. Should be an exiting week!

 D6Damager wrote:

Same. I feel like if you go Bladed Cog or Hivecult to try and shoot better that you're really just playing a worse version of Astra Militarum. We need our own thing or at least a better way to play combined shooting/melee. Instead of going 'all in' on one or the other.

I'd say different more than worse. AM has easier access to rerolls and shenanigans for the infantry, but we can stack +1 to hit and have better deployment tricks. Also our primary <cult> fire support vehicle has open topped, so we don't loose offensive power by packing troops into transports (AM does). Druhkari are probably a better comparison.