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Rock Liberty

Daren Jac

Micah Chapman

Cooper Waddell
That is all the 5-1 lists from the LVO.

Thanks for finding those. Interesting how the two lists that put more emphasis on GSC both feature a block of Aberrants in a Twisted Helix detachment despite the hefty points hike they took (I assume Monstrous Vigor for a 4+++ and fighting twice have something to do with it - the former makes up for AP while the latter doubles the value).

Nifty to see the Abominant and Biophagus make an appearance as well. I'd be curious to see what they matched up against, as supposedly the hybrid lists were the only non-marine force to hit the 61% win rate.

What is the point of doing a mixed battalion? Doesn't everything in the detachment have to be the same cult creed in order to receive the benefit of the creed?

 D6Damager wrote:
What is the point of doing a mixed battalion? Doesn't everything in the detachment have to be the same cult creed in order to receive the benefit of the creed?

That's absolutely true. But you can take warlord traits and use stratagems for all the <cult> that are in your army. For example it might be worth having a single magus from Cult of the Four Armed Emperor, because they can take that awesome warlord trait and stratagem. Or rusted claw bikers.

Also, quite a lot of our units doesn't get any cult creed at all, brood brothers for example. So you can easily fill the detachment with such.

For example, a detachment like this can be added to almost any army. Because the cult creeds are the less important than the stratagems.

Magus - C4AE (warlord trait through BroodCoven strat)
Jackal Alphus - Rusted Claw

Brood Brothers
Brood Brothers
Brood Brothers

Biker unit with demo charges. - Rusted Claw

Personally disappointed in that set, can't complain about getting a mix of neophytes and acolytes (was always worried they'd just do neophytes), but the hq choice and vehicle choice aren't interesting to me. It would have been brilliant to have a discounted source of Goliaths.

I put it up in the Psychic Awakening thread, but here you guys go from GW's Facebook:

The Heart of the Creed
1 Command Point

Genestealer Cults Stratagem
Use this Stratagem before the battle. Select one <Cult> Primus model from your army. When that model is set up on the battlefield for the first time, you can select one additional enemy unit for that model's Meticulous Planner ability. You can only use this Stratagem once per battle.

They had an image, but I figure people might be workblocked and I don't want to copy/paste the image again.

That’s rather nifty, though keeping a Primus around long enough to go after a second target might be tricky and having to use the stratagem before the battle makes it a bit inflexible (would be great if it was after picking a target, since at that point one would know if a multi charge is possible to use both instances at once). I could see it being situationally good if the matchup is one where the opponent is likely to clump up and not as good against more spread out foes.

Should I update the tactica as things are previewed or would it be better to wait until the book is out?

I'd say wait until the book is out and start a new thread then, but update it with the previews?

I'm guessing tomorrow is the Genestealer Cult previews and we'll wrap out the week with Guard and Tempestus.

I really don't know enough about GSC to say whether it's good or bad with regards to the tactical element. Can't you take one Primus per Detachment or something? Could it be worked by taking one Primus, holding them back with this stratagem active and then potentially popping them up with some killy bits later on?

First preview is up. I actually get to contribute for once!

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/02/05/the-greater-good-faction-focus-genestealer-cultsgw-homepage-post-1/

Basically Tyranid Book of Baal 2.0. We get:

1. Mix and Match creeds. Pick 2 from list. Example given was bikers not getting move penalty to shooting and if grouped together, psykers reroll 1s on tests.

2. Major creed psy powers. Example being Twisted Helix: Select enemy inf unit within 12. +1 to wounds if hitting with melee.

3. Strats. Example: Pick Neos coming out of ambush. Autoguns get Assault 2. This one I don't really get the good out of this one. Run and gun after blipping? 40 shots is 40 shots I guess

Keramory wrote:
First preview is up. I actually get to contribute for once!

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/02/05/the-greater-good-faction-focus-genestealer-cultsgw-homepage-post-1/

Basically Tyranid Book of Baal 2.0. We get:

1. Mix and Match creeds. Pick 2 from list. Example given was bikers not getting move penalty to shooting and if grouped together, psykers reroll 1s on tests.

2. Major creed psy powers. Example being Twisted Helix: Select enemy inf unit within 12. +1 to wounds if hitting with melee.

3. Strats. Example: Pick Neos coming out of ambush. Autoguns get Assault 2. This one I don't really get the good out of this one. Run and gun after blipping? 40 shots is 40 shots I guess

Love that twisted helix power, basically none of the armies I play have had flat +1 to wound sources before. Twisted Helix acolytes will be a right terror for T4 anything.

As far as the strat is concerned, gives your shooting neophyte unit that you want to deploy in cover that may be outside of rapid fire range of a good target a boost, but yea otherwise fairly useless.

That twisted helix spell on a unit of Broodsurge acolytes will shred anything, and they won’t even need drills. +2 to wound means their claws are -4ap on a 4+, and at Str 5 they’re wounding everything in the game on 3+ at worst.

The rules previewed so far are absolutely HORRIBLE, so much that Game Designers should be ashamed if they think people are gonna use them for real. The GSC part might set a new milestone for underpowered new rules in Supplements, only Saturday reviews will tell

KurtAngle2 wrote:
The rules previewed so far are absolutely HORRIBLE, so much that Game Designers should be ashamed if they think people are gonna use them for real. The GSC part might set a new milestone for underpowered new rules in Supplements, only Saturday reviews will tell

Do you literally do anything other than whine about Tyranids/GSC?

 Nitro Zeus wrote:

KurtAngle2 wrote:
The rules previewed so far are absolutely HORRIBLE, so much that Game Designers should be ashamed if they think people are gonna use them for real. The GSC part might set a new milestone for underpowered new rules in Supplements, only Saturday reviews will tell

Do you literally do anything other than whine about Tyranids/GSC?

If you can get hyped about current GSC rules, you sir got a huge problem. Meanwhile AM and T'au get things that are completely on another level of power (with the former having a Stratagem that works on ALL Imperium Infantries while we should be excited about having Rapid Fire 2....ehm ASSAULT 2 lasgun when using Cult Ambush *sigh*).

P.S. I'm still waiting for Blood Angels to be GUARANTEED TOP TIER btw

Oh thanks for reminding me, you also cry about Blood Angels being garbage too.

Well, at least you have your niche cut out.



The rules aren't even released yet. The previews are always complete hit and miss. It's way too early to start whining.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Have we already forgotten the last time we started whining about GSC based off the previews? LOL

 Nitro Zeus wrote:
Oh thanks for reminding me, you also cry about Blood Angels being garbage too.

Well, at least you have your niche cut out.



The rules aren't even released yet. The previews are always complete hit and miss. It's way too early to start whining.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Have we already forgotten the last time we started whining about GSC based off the previews? LOL

In fact monoBA is still a joke while in Marines soup they're fine but that doesn't mean that their niche has changed or their gameplay options have opened up, i.e. you still want to just ally them for specific melee duties and nothing more.

this isn't a thread for discussing Blood Angels, but no, mono BA are neither a joke, and nor is that a measure of a factions strengths. Mono Knights was one of the weakest things in the game for example, while Knights themselves were considered the strongest faction in the game. This is a game of soup and BA add plenty to it. Anyway, please stop trying to make this about your grudge against me for saying BA aren't bad and back to the topic of GSC itself, because engaging with you on anything is a fruitless endeavor. We all know you're going to complain no matter what GSC get, so lets just skip past that and the rest of us interested in reading about genestealers TACTICS can do so.

Kanluwen wrote:I'd say wait until the book is out and start a new thread then, but update it with the previews?

Oh, I meant should I update the tactica as previews leak out or wait to do it all at once when the book itself drops. I'm not sure if there are going to be enough changes to warrant a completely new thread (unlike the Grey Knights for example where the book fundamentally changed how they work) but if needed we could make a new one.

Keramory wrote:First preview is up. I actually get to contribute for once!

Thank you for the notification. If you don't mind my asking though, what do you mean by being able to contribute "for once"? The goal here is to foster discussion, so if you feel as though thoughts are unwelcome I'd be interested to know how the thread might be made more inviting.


Reading the previews thus far, my initial thoughts:

- Custom Creeds:

I think the two previewed both have some promise, though I probably wouldn't use them together. I have had quite a bit of experience with Wolfquads as mining laser platforms under the Rusted Claw and they have generally performed quite well in that role, so being able to get the accuracy benefit along with something potentially better suited to the current meta is a win in my book. The second trait also looked to be fairly good, given it doesn't have as many restrictions as the Tyranid counterpart and most of our powers have fairly high casting values that appreciate a bit of added consistency. The main downside is that it only works on the Magus right now, but if we get another non-Patriarch psyker somewhere down the line it could have further utility.

- Creed Powers

The previewed power for the Twisted Helix tentatively looks as though it could be really good, especially if paired with First to Draw Blood from the Deliverance Broodsurge to double down on +1 to wound. Under the effects of both, Acolytes are hurting most infantry on a 2+ and are rending on a 4+ with their claws. The other melee units should be able to get good use out of the power as well, but anything with Rending Claws or high strength (S6+) will especially like it.


- Stratagems

Heart of the Creed: After having some time to put more thought into this, I think it could be quite good for a Hivecult Primus that is also taking the Hivelord warlord trait (likely via Broodcoven). At that point he provides rerolls both to hit and to wound against two key targets for the Hivecult gunline and can be redeployed to the front with Return to Shadows once those targets are down or (more likely) the guns are taken out. The main problem for the other creeds is that the timing window is such that you can't guarantee you will be able to benefit from the extra usage unless the opponent is clustered together in such a way that you can mark two targets that one intends to charge.

Prepared Ambush: I see two potential uses for this. First, it specifies that it works on the turn in which the unit has set up via cult ambush so in theory a squad that deployed via ambush token should be a valid target. As such, this could be handy for the Four Armed Emperor or Twisted Helix creeds that can give Neophytes a bit of extra speed on the advance, then pop the stratagem so they can still fire. They lose out on heavy weapon shots, but all of the special weapons are assault typed innately so they will work fine. The other potential use is against small units of Infiltrators where you aren't allowed to drop in within rapid fire range at all and a few extra wounds might make the difference. Both cases are still rather niche (advance and shoot is probably the better of the two, since it gives a nice forward screen), but might be worth keeping in the back of ones mind.

I'll remain cautiously optimistic to see what else the book might bring. If nothing else what has been previewed has been much better than what the Tyranids had in their previews (which admittedly is not a very high standard).

If you guys think any of what was "leaked" is remotely good then you play with very gentle opponents.
Call it for what it is, total garbage. it is no whining, it is simple basic analysis.

addnid wrote:
If you guys think any of what was "leaked" is remotely good then you play with very gentle opponents.
Call it for what it is, total garbage. it is no whining, it is simple basic analysis.

I literally laughed at the C4AE/Twisted Helix NEOPHYTES. No one use them in these creeds for an obvious reason

KurtAngle2 wrote:

 Nitro Zeus wrote:

KurtAngle2 wrote:
The rules previewed so far are absolutely HORRIBLE, so much that Game Designers should be ashamed if they think people are gonna use them for real. The GSC part might set a new milestone for underpowered new rules in Supplements, only Saturday reviews will tell

Do you literally do anything other than whine about Tyranids/GSC?

If you can get hyped about current GSC rules, you sir got a huge problem. Meanwhile AM and T'au get things that are completely on another level of power (with the former having a Stratagem that works on ALL Imperium Infantries while we should be excited about having Rapid Fire 2....ehm ASSAULT 2 lasgun when using Cult Ambush *sigh*).

P.S. I'm still waiting for Blood Angels to be GUARANTEED TOP TIER btw

I would wait for FAQ before losing my mind over that IG stratagem. Wouldn't be first time similar thing happened and got faq'ed away right away

addnid wrote:
If you guys think any of what was "leaked" is remotely good then you play with very gentle opponents.
Call it for what it is, total garbage. it is no whining, it is simple basic analysis.

The Primus stratagem is definitely good. Usable in every build, no. Usable in builds that are currently doing well like Neophyte spam? Yes indeed.

 Badablack wrote:
That twisted helix spell on a unit of Broodsurge acolytes will shred anything, and they won’t even need drills. +2 to wound means their claws are -4ap on a 4+, and at Str 5 they’re wounding everything in the game on 3+ at worst.

The psychic power only works on enemy infantry; it does nothing against vehicles and monsters. So, you still need drills/saws.

@addnid and KurtAngle

I suppose to clarify regarding my initial thoughts that you appear to be reacting to, said analysis is mostly through the prism of "what can this do". I'm fairly confident most people can decide on their own whether something is worth using or not, but it doesn't hurt to keep an open mind and consider what sorts of things one can do with the rules even if the end result is not worth the cost to do so.

And as I said, I'd rather foster discussion than shut it down. Even if something isn't tournament viable, there is no harm in discussing it for discussion's sake.

 Nitro Zeus wrote:

Usable in builds that are currently doing well like Neophyte spam? Yes indeed.

Neophyte lists are somewhat in a holding pattern until the Chapter Approved FAQ drops. No one is going to pay 1100 points for 10 GEQ models.

 Strat_N8 wrote:
@addnid and KurtAngle

I suppose to clarify regarding my initial thoughts that you appear to be reacting to, said analysis is mostly through the prism of "what can this do". I'm fairly confident most people can decide on their own whether something is worth using or not, but it doesn't hurt to keep an open mind and consider what sorts of things one can do with the rules even if the end result is not worth the cost to do so.

And as I said, I'd rather foster discussion than shut it down. Even if something isn't tournament viable, there is no harm in discussing it for discussion's sake.

Very well said.

 Strat_N8 wrote:

 Nitro Zeus wrote:

Usable in builds that are currently doing well like Neophyte spam? Yes indeed.

Neophyte lists are somewhat in a holding pattern until the Chapter Approved FAQ drops. No one is going to pay 1100 points for 10 GEQ models.

No tournament is enforcing the '55 pt Neophyte' type. These tournaments are run by human beings they are not turning away someone over something so ridiculous, and this is shown by the results of every tournament since that release, people are just playing it as 5 pt Neophytes because is so clearly a typo.

So got to say the cult Creed for magus is disappointing unless they allows us multiple per detachment. I like the biker one as you might be able to get a nice pair for an outrider detachment. The rest seems rather plain. Decent, but not that good. I really like the new hotshot pistol for scions and hope we end up with a similar one. It would be nice on an banner carrier somewhere to add just a little bit of offensive power to it.

Cult Creeds

Hunter's Instincts
Until the end of the first battle round, add 1 to Advance and charge rolls made for units with this Cult Creed

Innate Fighters
When resolving an attack made with a melee weapon by a model with this Cult Creed in a turn in which it made a charge move, was charged or performed a Heroic intervention, re-roll a hit roll of 1.

Thralls of the Patriarch
When a morale test is taken for a unit with this Cult Creed, halve the number of models that flee (rounding up).

Seasoned Enforced
Infantry models with this Cult Creed do not suffer the penalty for moving and firing with Heavy weapons.

Agile Outriders
Biker models with this Cult Creed do not suffer the penalty for moving and firing Heavy weapons and do not suffer the panlty for Advancing and firing Assault Weapons.

Armour-piercing Ammunition
When resolving an attack made with an autopistol, autogun or heavy stubber by a model with this Cult Creed against a unit that is within half range, that weapon has an Armour Pentration characteristic of -1 for that attack.

Munition Experts
Add 1 to the Strenght characteristic of Grenade weapons models with this Cult Creed are equipped with.

Unnatural Symbiosis
Whena psychic test is taken for a <CULT> model with this Cult Creed and within 6" of another friendly <CULT> unit,you can reroll any or all dice rolls of 1

Workers Arisen
When resolving an attack made with a weapon from the Heavy Mining Weapons List by a model with this Cult Creed, you can reroll the Hit Roll.

Devout Worshippers
When a charge roll is made for a <CULT> unit with this Cult Creed whilst withing 3" of a friendly <CULT> Hybrid Metamorphs unit, you can reroll the dice. This Cult Creed cannot be selected together with Hunter's Instincts Cult Creed

Poisoned Blades
When resolving an attack made with a bonesword, a lash whip and bonesword or a cultist knife by a model with this Cult Creed, on an unmodified hit roll of 6 you can make one additional attack agains the same unit using the same weapon. This additional attack cannot generate another attack


Stratagems

1 CP
Use this stratagem at the start of your Shooting phase. Select one Neophyte Hybrids unit from your army that was set up on the battlefield using the Cult Ambush ability in this battle round. Until the end of that phase, autoguns models in that unit are equipped with have a Type characteristic of Assault 2

1 CP
Use this stratagem in your Charge Phase when a Goliath Rockgrinder unit from your army finishes a charge move. Select one enemy Infantry unit within 1" of that unit and roll a D6: on a 2+ the enemy unit suffers D3 mortal wounds.

2 CP
At the start of your Shooting phase, select one Jackal Alphus model form your army.Until the end of that phase, replace the model Priority Target Sighted ability with this rule:

Vox Contact: At the start of your shooting phase select one enemy unit within 36" and visible to this model. Until the end of that phase, when resolving an attack made by a friendly <CULT> model against that unit whilst models unit is within 18" of this model, add 1 to Hit Roll (basically improves the current aura to 18" for 2 CP)

1 CP
Use this stratagem in your Shooting phase when an Atalan Jackals unit from your army is chosen to shoot with.Until the end of that phase, when resolving an attack made with a Pistol or Assault weapon by a model in that unit against an enemy unit withing 12", you can reroll the wound roll.

1 CP
Use this stratagem in the Fight phase whne a Hybrid Metamorphs unit from your army is chosen to fight with. Until the end of that phase, add 1 to the Attacks characteristic of models in that unit

1 CP
Use this Stratagem before the battle. Select one Clavamus model from your army. The range of that model's Proclamator Hailer ability is increased by 3. The same model cannot be selected by this Stratagem more than once per battle.

1 CP
Use this stratagem before the battle. Select one Abominant unit from your army. That unit's The Chosen One ability affects friendly <CULT> Aberrants units within 9" of that unit instead of within 6". You can only use this Stratagem once per battle.

1 CP
Use this stratagem in your Shooting phase. Select one Achilles Ridgerunners unit from your army.Until the end of the turn, when resolving an attack made with a heavy stubber model by a model in that unit. add 1 to the Hit and Wound rolls.

1 CP
Use this stratagem before the battle. Select one <CULT> Magus unit from your army. That unit can attempt to manifest one additional Psychic power in your Psychic Phase. When a Psychic test is taken for that unit, Add 1 to the total for each other friendly <CULT> Psyker unit withing 3" (to a maximum of 3+) You can only use this stratagem once per battle

1 CP
Use this stratagem in your Movement phase, when a Sanctus unit it chosen to move. Until the end of that phase, when that unit advances, add 6" to the Move characteristic until the end of the phase instead of making an Advance roll. In addition, until the end of the turn, that unit can be chosen to charge with even if it Advanced this turn.

1 CP
Use this stratagem in the Charge phase. Select one Acolyte Hybrid unit from your ramy. Until the end of the phase, the unit can be chosen to charge even if it advanced this turn.

1 CP
Use this stratagem in your opponent's Shooting phase, when a Goliath Rockgrinder or Goliath Truck unit from your army is chosen as the target of an attack made with a ranged weapon. Until the end of that phase, weapons with an Armour Penetration characteristic of -1 or -2 are treated as having an Armour Penetration characteristic of 0 when resolving an attack against that unit.

1 CP
Use this stratagem in your Shooting phase, when a <CULT> unit from your army is chosen to shoot with it. Until the end fo that phase, when resolving an attack made with a Clearance incinerator, heavy mining laser or heavy seismic cannon by a model in that unit, add 1 to the wound rolls.

1 CP
Use this stratagem befor ethe battle.Select one <CULT> Primus model from your army. when that model is setup up on the battleifeld for the first time, you can select one additional enemy unit for that model's Meticolous Planner ability. You can only use this Stratagem once per battle.


Psychic Powers

C4AE WC 8
Select one enemy Infantry unit within 18" of this Psyker. Until the start of your next Psychic Phase, halve the movement characteristic of models in that unit and halve any Advance or charge rolls madefor that unit (rounding up).

Hive Cult WC 6
Select one enemy unit within 18" and visible to this Psyker. Roll a D6 equal to the number of Hive Cult models from your army within 3" of that unit. For each roll of 6 that unit suffers 1 mortal wound

Bladed Cog WC 6
Select one BLADED COG unit within 12" of this Psyker. Until the next Psychic phase, that unit gets a 5+ FNP

Rusted Claw WC 6
Select one enemy vehicle unit within 18" of and visibile to this psyker. Until the end of the turn, when resolving an attack made with a weapon against that unit, improvde the Armour Penetration characteristic of that weapon by 1 for that attack.

The Pauper Princes WC 7
Select one PAUPER PRINCES unit from your army within 12" of this psyker. Until the start of your next Psychic phase, when a model in that unit is destroyed, roll a D6 before removing that model from play. On a 4+ that model can either shoot with one of its ranged weapons as if it were your Shooting phase, or make one attack with one of its melee weapons as if it were the Fight Phase.

Twisted Helix WC 6
Select one enemy Infantry unit withing 12" of this Psyjer. Until the start of your next psychic Phase, when resolving an attack made with a melee weapon by a Twisted Helix model from your army against that unit, add 1 to the wound roll.


The errata is just the same thing we got from FAQs rewritten there to give the impression that GSC has got something worthwhile

there is some interesting cults, as worker arisen + season enforced. Devout Worshippers to rerolls charges is interesting too.
but I don't think they can shade the main cults and less with the new psychic powers..


Metamorphs they are becoming really interesting...

and unfortunately, the best of all these new rules have been the psychic powers ... that added to those we already had ... we will not be able to launch so many!!

the twisted helix, and the rusted claw (It is for any unit, not just for other rusted claw ..) are my favorites.

in general, I have the impression that it has been a bit poor update, and they could have taken advantage of the faqs to fix some problems.


Do you see any really interesting combo?

I will play neophytes rerollimg hits with mining lasers and ignoring moving penalty, in trucks which now that they have a slightly better chance of surviving (the ignore ap 1 and 2 strat is good but they could have made it « until end of game » no ? Or ignore ap 3 2 and 1).
So I am happy for that (well until I try that out and end up doing what everyone does, ditching trucks and deepstriking the laser neophytes)

My bikes will stay on the shelf though.

Let’s be honest though, GW took a good old dump on gsc players. A few very good things (magus strat is ace) but no relics and no adaptations, and lots of useless garbage...

Anti armour seems pretty fun for a dakka build.