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NinthMusketeer wrote:Coming from a crusade angle; are aberrants as bad in cost when it comes to PL as they are in points?

They are currently PL 8 so the base 5-strong squad costs roughly 10 points more using power than they are using points. However, if you factor in a Hypermorph the power rating comes out better.

One helpful thing in crusade, you can use Psychic Summons to bring in units as needed since Crusade does not use reinforcement points. These units won't gain XP or level up, but they can help pad your numbers a bit.

Hey I'm new to GSC and I was wondering are there any HQ's that you recommend having multiples of? I've been searching ebay for army lots and most of them include HQ's I already have (Iconward, Primus, Broodlord, Abominant).

In 8th edition, I would have definitely said Patriarch, when multiple detachments were encouraged and gave you CP bonuses.

Now that 9th encourages playing with only a single detachment, and bearing in mind our current Gene-sect rule for matched play prohibits us from running more than 1 of each character in the same detachment, it's harder to recommend getting multiples.

However, there's still an argument to be made for running a Bladed Cog battalion with a 4AE patrol for the utility that brings, so it might still be worth picking up another patriarch (perhaps a different broodlord model to distinguish the two!)

 Kaptin_Grubkrumpa wrote:
Hey I'm new to GSC and I was wondering are there any HQ's that you recommend having multiples of? I've been searching ebay for army lots and most of them include HQ's I already have (Iconward, Primus, Broodlord, Abominant).

If you are planning on leaning heavier into Mech you will probably want a second Jackal Alphus (one to follow transports/bikes and one to sit with Ridgerunners). Otherwise as mentioned a second Patriarch is also nice to have for redundancy.

It probably won't hurt to have duplicates of the other characters in preparation for what changes might be made in the new codex (however far off that is). The aforementioned Genesect rule is an artifact of 8th edition army building and I would not be surprised if it was revised to only apply to the Broodcoven units (Patriarch, Magus, Primus) in a new book if not dropped all together. I suppose it might also be worth noting that if you are playing Crusade rather than matched play that the Brood Coven rule doesn't apply,.

Oh I do not know.

1 CP to upgrade the magus lifts him from bad to good, but you can only use it once.

In index times 2 primus would be good, but alas Yoric. Now I hardly use one

Jackal alpus could be good at 2x.

I have not been impressed by a patriarch. The abominants gmhas a hard time hitting.

You can have the Abominant use his rending claw against infantry. It is still S6 -1 AP with exploding 6's to hit. Not amazing, but not horrible either.

I do like taking one Primus with their upgrade to provide support for Ridgerunners and then use return to shadows to send them up the field to help out Rock Grinders. The biggest hurdle for taking more than one is really just the genesect rule. In 8th I liked taking 2x Primus, 2x Alphus to provide +1 to hit for both my melee and shooting, but there aren't really enough slots to do so right now and take other HQ options.

In a heavy psyker meta I could see some argument for multiple Magi. They do help with shutting down smites and the like with their aura, but it is a rather rare circumstance and they are pricey.

From my experiences I have a hard time using more then one a perfect ambush and lying in wait. That is 5 CP. After that it is slim pickings.

Patriarch could be good, I also have Tyranids so the redundancy is fine (plus I had a lot of fun painting my first one).

Another question: I'm not sure how the GSC/Tyranids work together? Can I bring Tyranids in the same detachment as the GSC, say bringing a Carnifex brood in a GSC batallion? Or do they have to be in a separate detachment?

Kaptin_Grubkrumpa wrote:Patriarch could be good, I also have Tyranids so the redundancy is fine (plus I had a lot of fun painting my first one).

Another question: I'm not sure how the GSC/Tyranids work together? Can I bring Tyranids in the same detachment as the GSC, say bringing a Carnifex brood in a GSC batallion? Or do they have to be in a separate detachment?

They must be in separate detachments per army building rules. The only oddity is the in-codex Brood Brother units which can be included in a GSC detachment legally, but units taken from the Astra Militarium codex need to be in their own detachment.

Hm. Well it seems like both the 'Nid codex and the GSC ones are pretty bottom tier so... idk if it matters that much.

Although, do you all think that the FW updated Scythed/Barbed heirdule rules will be good to bring in a Spearhead Detachment?

So, after having taken the plunge i do have some questions aswell:

The custom traits are basically chose two. The opportunity cost is the specific stratagems and relics you don't have access too right?

Further, as far as i understand brood brothers GSC should have acess to FW AM units?

Not Online!!! wrote:
So, after having taken the plunge i do have some questions aswell:

The custom traits are basically chose two. The opportunity cost is the specific stratagems and relics you don't have access too right?

Further, as far as i understand brood brothers GSC should have acess to FW AM units?

Yeah. That's right on both. Also, there are some psychic powers that are cult-locked.

Brood Brother detachments are limited in quite specific ways, such as "no named characters". But Forgeworld units can be included.

Mellon wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
So, after having taken the plunge i do have some questions aswell:

The custom traits are basically chose two. The opportunity cost is the specific stratagems and relics you don't have access too right?

Further, as far as i understand brood brothers GSC should have acess to FW AM units?

Yeah. That's right on both. Also, there are some psychic powers that are cult-locked.

Brood Brother detachments are limited in quite specific ways, such as "no named characters". But Forgeworld units can be included.

Very interesting.

May i ask what stops us from then, combining the Auto weaponry ammo creed with the high explosive one, and proceed to use Sturmtruppen tactics for basic breakthroughs on a neophyte heavy basis?

Nothing stops you. But I do not think it sounds very strong.

The one annoying thing about Munitions Experts, if you think about it, is that it does nothing for Grenade Launchers... Because they are Assault weapons, and not grenades...

I've seen Tabletop Tactics run at least one game with a heavy neophytes list running Armour-Piecing Ammo, and it didn't go particularly well. The extra AP is next to useless if you can't hit and wound reliably. Each unit of neophytes would deal perhaps 2 wounds to its target, and then die horribly the next turn.

If we had access to orders for neophytes in combination with this, it could be worth considering.

yeah the munitions expert not applying to grenade launchers is, wierd. on one hand it is probably better that way, due to how the krak nade would be elevated to S7 and therefore turn into a far too cheap AT weapon, otoh i think frag nades would be 0 issue in that regard.

my idea was to attempt to shoot then charge in combination with the magus / patriarch, however i also am not surprised that it isn't picked, having at the time toyed arround with a R&H army though quite literally any cult creed is better then what i had access too so there's that

Yes I remember your R&H army - are you planning on running them with GSC rules? Neophyte spam with Bladed Cog certainly used to have legs - the idea being you brought as many cheap mining lasers as possible and flooded the board with bodies. Not sure how feasible this is in 9th as you'll want ambushing acolytes to push your opponent off objectives.

Actually, given how cheap mining lasers are, I'm not sure boosting krak grenade launchers to S7 would be a big deal.

Has anyone had much luck using any of the Cult Creeds besides Bladed Cog? Whenever I come to make a list I just can't bring myself to take anything else, except maybe a patrol of 4AE.

 Drakeslayer wrote:
Yes I remember your R&H army - are you planning on running them with GSC rules? Neophyte spam with Bladed Cog certainly used to have legs - the idea being you brought as many cheap mining lasers as possible and flooded the board with bodies. Not sure how feasible this is in 9th as you'll want ambushing acolytes to push your opponent off objectives.

No, i build up a fully separate daemoncult with hybrid's beeing possessed, the patriarch beeing a skulltaker, the magus beeing a BSF psyker, etc...

Actually, given how cheap mining lasers are, I'm not sure boosting krak grenade launchers to S7 would be a big deal.

Has anyone had much luck using any of the Cult Creeds besides Bladed Cog? Whenever I come to make a list I just can't bring myself to take anything else, except maybe a patrol of 4AE.

I think, out of a theorethical perspective that is, that bladed cog would be less relevant if gene sect wasn't such an issue. (full rerolls from the custom traits equals +- bs4+ atleast according to my ork math)

as it stands, 6 ppm sv 5 doesn't sit long on any objective, (especially if any SM show up)... 6++ though atleast guarantees a save...
If one could field more then 1 iconward you could atleast "buy " budget bladed cog for all others. Considering the CP tax though.

Drakeslayer wrote:Has anyone had much luck using any of the Cult Creeds besides Bladed Cog? Whenever I come to make a list I just can't bring myself to take anything else, except maybe a patrol of 4AE.

I've had fair results with Hivecult. The creed ability to fall back and shoot is nice for larger Jackal and Neophyte squads trying to hold down center and the Hivelord warlord trait is still really nice with Ridgerunners. The biggest issue is that, as before, it doesn't do much for the melee component and it is rather reliant upon vehicles for firepower (admittedly this isn't as large a problem with the mild nerf Bring it Down took).

I want to try Twisted Helix but I don't have quite enough Acolytes assembled to do what I would like to do with them. Both aspects of the creed ability are relevant right now with an expected influx of T5 infantry and the mission packets favoring more aggressive armies.

Not Online!!! wrote:
I think, out of a theorethical perspective that is, that bladed cog would be less relevant if gene sect wasn't such an issue. (full rerolls from the custom traits equals +- bs4+ atleast according to my ork math)

The Bladed Cog doesn't really require as much "building around" compared to the others, so it tends to be the "default" pick. You could take the Enforcers custom trait to get the move and fire heavy without penalty part of Bladed Cog if you wanted. Both Seismic Cannons and Stubbers sorta pair well with Armor Piercing since the former wants to be close for added strength and the latter is eligible for the effect.

Also on the subject of grenades, I have been finding Demolition Charges to be a relatively effective solution for Necron Warrior blobs. Blast generally means maximum volume of shots, S8 means wounding on a 2+, and -3 AP goes through the armor. Provided some accuracy fixing is available they tend to do good work and whatever is left can be cleaned up in melee.

I've figured it out everyone. Fire trucks. 10 acolytes with flamers in trucks. 5 heroes and as many re rolling wounds as bladed cog can give you. I threw a list with 8 trucks and 55 flamers in lost builder. There is a silly amount of shots going out in the center of the board. Won my last game by 70 points.

Can't wait to try it again.

dreadlybrew wrote:
I've figured it out everyone. Fire trucks. 10 acolytes with flamers in trucks. 5 heroes and as many re rolling wounds as bladed cog can give you. I threw a list with 8 trucks and 55 flamers in lost builder. There is a silly amount of shots going out in the center of the board. Won my last game by 70 points.

Can't wait to try it again.

Except for the fact that you can do it with Deepstrike by default

I have found that deep strike is worthless in 9th for the alpha striking squads we used to be able to use. Transports being the general name of the game in the current meta let our pretty decent transports rock out to control the mid board. You also need to save our expensive troops. The face that you can fire 10d6 flamers from inside the truck just makes them all that much better.

dreadlybrew wrote:
I have found that deep strike is worthless in 9th for the alpha striking squads we used to be able to use. Transports being the general name of the game in the current meta let our pretty decent transports rock out to control the mid board. You also need to save our expensive troops. The face that you can fire 10d6 flamers from inside the truck just makes them all that much better.

If your unit is Acolyte with HFs and nothing else, deepstrike is the way to go due to trucks doing anything (rather they're costing you 75 points and being a hinderance) at all.
If you want to use Melee Acolytes, it's perfectly fine though

dreadlybrew wrote:
I've figured it out everyone. Fire trucks. 10 acolytes with flamers in trucks. 5 heroes and as many re rolling wounds as bladed cog can give you. I threw a list with 8 trucks and 55 flamers in lost builder. There is a silly amount of shots going out in the center of the board. Won my last game by 70 points.

Can't wait to try it again.

What where you up against? I can see it having varied results. Also how are you getting re-rolls? The warlord trait only works on one enemy unit.

Please keep us posted. And how much work do the autocannons do? You can almost dinthis with heavy flamer chimera and flamer brood brothers.

Consider 4 armed emperor for better charges. S4 rending claws, mayby even some heavy weapons are a good danger.

I use bladed cog. A primus with the cp strat to choose 2 targets and the brood coven strat to give him the extra warlord trait from bladed cog. Because you are re rolling wounds you get a lot of value out of those auto hits.

I played against imperial guard. 7 leman russes and a manticore and wyvern. The autocannons really only killed the artillery.

Once in melee I was fishing for 6s to wound but because they are rending claws ap-4 worked out the hero blob has to move together with the abberants and be a glass cannon death ball anchored by an abdominant with the mark of the clawed omnisiah and a dr 1 patriarch.

dreadlybrew wrote:
I have found that deep strike is worthless in 9th for the alpha striking squads we used to be able to use. Transports being the general name of the game in the current meta let our pretty decent transports rock out to control the mid board. You also need to save our expensive troops. The face that you can fire 10d6 flamers from inside the truck just makes them all that much better.

Can one shoot from a transport véhicule while in CC ?

Congrats but who owns 8 trucks ? You were you playing on TTS ? I’ve been wonder8ng about truck spam but I only have 4.

4 is spam in my mind. By the time you have painted them you are bleeding money and crying paint.

 Niiai wrote:
4 is spam in my mind. By the time you have painted them you are bleeding money and crying paint.

"4 is spam" no, it isn't even enough to have a list be defined as "Truck heavy"

Can passengers shoot from a transport véhicule while the vehicle is in CC ?

 addnid wrote:
Can passengers shoot from a transport véhicule while the vehicle is in CC ?

Only with Pistols and targeting units in Engagement range